Alec Baldwin shoots two, one dead, one in hospital

[Mreader]

NPR published more detail ...

"Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show.

The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court."

Baldwin didn't know weapon on movie set contained a live round, search warrant says

Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records show.

www.npr.org

So, who is this assistant director and if (s)he didn't load the gun, who exactly put the live round(s) into the gun, and why did (s)he do it?
I've read speculation Baldwin may have been set up for spoofing Trump on SNL.

Gotta love a juicy conspiracy theory, but considering the orange allegation it wouldn't surprise me.

Where oh where is Agatha Christie, or Angela Landsbury when you need em?

People are misinterpreting the use of the word “live round”. Even a gun loaded with blanks is considered “loaded” and “live” or “hot”. In other words, live round does not automatically mean a bullet.

 

[VRBeauty]

If you have access to the Sirius XM app - try to catch today’s Dan Abrams show. His guest was Mike Tristano, a licensed master armorer for movies etc. His job entails providing guns for use as movie/TV props. He discussed all the safeguards used to prevent such accidents. He has also worked with Alex Baldwin on set - and it was his observation/belief that Baldwin was very experienced with sets with firearms, and that he took them very seriously and would not, even jokingly, point any weapon at a person. It was a fascinating discussion, and I learned a lot listening to it.

 

[Jambalaya]

Baldwin must be totally traumatized. Imagine having killed someone by accident. Most people would have a hard time getting over that.

 

[mrs-b]

Just to be clear - Baldwin wasn't "horsing around". The angle of the film was meant to show Baldwin shooting in center shot, towards the camera. This meant he had to point the gun towards whoever was controlling the camera. Apparently the bullet passed through Hutchins, who was controlling the camera, and hit Souza.

I find it very unfair that Baldwin has been framed as a person being irresponsible with a gun. THINK how many movies you've seen that show a shot of a person shooting in the direction of the camera. Virtually every second gun fight you see on film. This is an incredibly common angle. Whoever was responsible for loading the gun is the person at fault. That was somebody's job. They didn't do it well.

Police have literally used the phrase that Baldwin is a "free man". He must be absolutely distraught.

I once had a friend who was driving a car down a suburban road that was lined on either side with very steep driveways. He was going very slowly. As he progressed down the road, a small child on a tricycle shot down one of the driveways, out of control, into the middle of the road, and hit the side of one of the tires of my friend's car. The child was thrown backwards off the bike, hit their head on the asphalt of the road and died. It was over before my friend knew what had happened and he was in no way at fault. It wrecked his life. He had a trial (cleared of all charges), lost his job, his wife had a nervous breakdown, and their children, in turn, paid the price. This accident with Baldwin feels like that to me; the person who was left holding the bag is not the person who caused the accident. So unfair.

ETA And just to add - I strongly dislike the title of this thread. It makes the shootings sound intentional, which is misleading at best. It would have been so easy to have added the word 'accidentally', or to have gone with something altogether more accurate.

 

[Tennesseetexan]

How horrible. Is a prop gun actually a real gun that shoots something besides a bullet?

Unfortunately, yes. Many are real.

 

[missy]

More info.

Alec Baldwin’s Movie Set Was Plagued by Gun Misfires Before Halyna Hutchins’ Tragic Death

There were at least two prior incidents of a gun being misfired on the set of the film ‘Rust’ before cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed in a shooting accident on set.

www.thedailybeast.com

Snip

There were at least two prior incidents of a gun being misfired on the set of the upcoming Western film Rust in the days leading up to Alec Baldwin discharging a prop gun on Thursday that killed the film’s cinematographer and injured the director, The Daily Beast has learned.

The tragedy of Hutchins’ death is a direct result of what IATSE members were fighting for regarding safer working conditions on the set, the source said. “This is what IATSE was fighting about with the producer; this epitomizes that fight will be dealt with on this show. Help us make good films without dying,” they pleaded.

“They did everything they absolutely could to save a nickel at all costs,” the inside source added. “They put everybody in jeopardy in one way or another, whether it was hiring less than qualified people to deal with firearms or it was the constant fight about housing people appropriately. In all my years of doing this, this is one of the worst productions I’ve been on.”

Instead of hiring seasoned, union professionals because of the higher costs, the armorers were young, inexperienced, and non-union members who did not take their job as seriously as they should, the source said.

The crew had complained to the first assistant director over the prop-gun misfiring on Saturday, the source claimed. “All of us yelled at him, ‘That better be on the production report, these guys are irresponsible and shouldn’t be here,’” they explained.

And despite Baldwin having recently gone through a firearm-safety training session, the source said safety protocols were all but ignored by both Baldwin and the responsible production members.

"

"

Warrant: Baldwin didn't know weapon contained live round​

By MORGAN LEE and WALTER BERRY
Fri, October 22, 2021, 6:09 AM


SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show.
The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court.
Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was shot in the chest on the set of a Western starring Baldwin. Director Joel Souza was wounded. The records said he was standing behind her.
The warrant was obtained Friday so that investigators could document the scene at the ranch where the shooting took place. It notes that Baldwin’s blood-stained costume for the film “Rust” was taken as evidence, as was the weapon that was fired.
Investigators also seized other prop guns and ammunition that were being for the film starring Baldwin.
Earlier in the day, Baldwin described the killing as a “tragic accident." He was performing at the time of the shooting, the sheriff's office said. It was unclear how many rounds were fired, and little was known about the weapon.
“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I’m fully cooperating with the police investigation,” Baldwin wrote on Twitter. “My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna.”
No immediate charges were filed, and sheriff’s spokesman Juan Rios said Baldwin was permitted to travel.
“He’s a free man,” Rios said.
Images of the 63-year-old actor — known for his roles in “30 Rock” and “The Hunt for Red October” and his impression of former President Donald Trump on “Saturday Night Live” — showed him distraught outside the sheriff’s office on Thursday.
Guns used in making movies are sometimes real weapons that can fire either bullets or blanks, which are gunpowder charges that produce a flash and a bang but no deadly projectile. However, even blanks can eject hot gases and paper or plastic wadding from the barrel that can be lethal at close range. That proved to be the case in the death of an actor in 1984.
In another on-set accident in 1993, the actor Brandon Lee was killed after a bullet was left in a prop gun, and similar shootings have occurred involving stage weapons that were loaded with live rounds.
Gun-safety protocol on sets in the United States has improved since then, said Steven Hall, a veteran director of photography in Britain. But he said one of the riskiest positions to be in is behind the camera because that person is in the line of fire in scenes where an actor appears to point a gun at the audience.
Sheriff’s deputies responded about 2 p.m. to the movie set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch after 911 calls described a person being shot there, Rios said. The ranch has been used in dozens of films, including the recent Tom Hanks Western “News of the World.”
One of Hutchins’ final social media posts was a photo of the “Rust” actors standing together in solidarity with crew members. She belonged to the IATSE union that represents crew members. The union is to vote soon on a new contract with producers after threatening to strike in recent weeks over issues including long hours and on-set safety.
Hutchins, 42, worked as director of photography on the 2020 action film “Archenemy” starring Joe Manganiello. She was a 2015 graduate of the American Film Institute and was named a “rising star” by American Cinematographer in 2019.
“I’m so sad about losing Halyna. And so infuriated that this could happen on a set,” said “Archenemy” director Adam Egypt Mortimer on Twitter. “She was a brilliant talent who was absolutely committed to art and to film.”
Manganiello called Hutchins “an incredible talent” and “a great person” on his Instagram account. He said he was lucky to have worked with her.
After the shooting, production was halted on “Rust.” The movie is about a 13-year-old boy who is left to fend for himself and his younger brother following the death of their parents in 1880s Kansas, according to the Internet Movie Database website. The teen goes on the run with his long-estranged grandfather (played by Baldwin) after the boy is sentenced to hang for the accidental killing of a local rancher.
Lee, son of martial arts star Bruce Lee, died in 1993 after being hit by a .44-caliber slug while filming a death scene for the movie “The Crow.” The gun was supposed to have fired a blank, but an autopsy turned up a bullet lodged near his spine.
In 1984, actor Jon-Erik Hexum died after shooting himself in the head with a prop gun blank while pretending to play Russian roulette with a .44 Magnum on the set of the television series “Cover Up.”
Such shootings have also happened during historical reenactments. In 2015, an actor staging a historical gunfight in Tombstone, Arizona, was shot and wounded with a live round during a show that was supposed to use blanks.
In Hill City, South Dakota, a tourist town that recreates an Old West experience, three spectators were wounded in 2011 when a re-enactor fired real bullets instead of blanks.
"

Accidents happen but this one could have been prevented. From what I am reading it does seem as if this was due to negligence. I doubt Alec Baldwin will be charged. Negligence occurred at many levels unfortunately.

 

[AprilBaby]

How does a dummy round pass through to peoples bodies? And why was he aiming the gun at anyone?

 

[Rockdiamond]

If you have access to the Sirius XM app - try to catch today’s Dan Abrams show. His guest was Mike Tristano, a licensed master armorer for movies etc. His job entails providing guns for use as movie/TV props. He discussed all the safeguards used to prevent such accidents. He has also worked with Alex Baldwin on set - and it was his observation/belief that Baldwin was very experienced with sets with firearms, and that he took them very seriously and would not, even jokingly, point any weapon at a person. It was a fascinating discussion, and I learned a lot listening to it.

I heard the show as well. It was super informative.
it’s all so tragic…
To add to his woes… Baldwin was a producer on the project and apparently a lot of corners were cut - hiring non union personnel. So sad.

 

[MrsBlue]

Just to be clear - Baldwin wasn't "horsing around". The angle of the film was meant to show Baldwin shooting in center shot, towards the camera. This meant he had to point the gun towards whoever was controlling the camera. Apparently the bullet passed through Hutchins, who was controlling the camera, and hit Souza.

I find it very unfair that Baldwin has been framed as a person being irresponsible with a gun. THINK how many movies you've seen that show a shot of a person shooting in the direction of the camera. Virtually every second gun fight you see on film. This is an incredibly common angle. Whoever was responsible for loading the gun is the person at fault. That was somebody's job. They didn't do it well.

I really hope that shooting towards/at the cameraperson is not the commonly accepted way of achieving this effect.

Basic gun safety is to treat every gun as if it were loaded. Why not leave the camera on and clear the area while you get the necessary footage?

 

[Karl_K]

I find it very unfair that Baldwin has been framed as a person being irresponsible with a gun.

The one who pulled the trigger is at fault with any firearms incident. Fundamental firearms rules were broken.
Him being the director puts him 2x responsible.
From what is coming out there were other non-lethal incidents before this one with firearms on the set that should have thrown up a huge red flag to stop and fix before someone gets killed..
That makes him 3x responsible and irresponsible for not fixing the issues.

 

[VRBeauty]

I really hope that shooting towards/at the cameraperson is not the commonly accepted way of achieving this effect.

Basic gun safety is to treat every gun as if it were loaded. Why not leave the camera on and clear the area while you get the necessary footage?

Tristano (see above) said that the normal practice in this situation is to either set the cameras to run without an operator behind them, or to use a clear shield to protect the camera operator (I assume - but I don’t know - that provides protection from a blank or dummy round, not an actual bullet). And there are other ways of getting this effect that are apparently more commonly used, such as manipulating camera angles or using CGI.

 

[Karl_K]

use a clear shield to protect the camera operator (I assume - but I don’t know - that provides protection from a blank or dummy round, not an actual bullet).

If they used a clear ballistic shield it could be clear and stop an actual bullet.
Its the same stuff you see in gas stations which is commonly incorrectly called bullet proof glass.
In this day and age it should be done with remotes and cgi.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The one who pulled the trigger is at fault with any firearms incident. Fundamental firearms rules were broken.

In a general sense, of course.....but specifically on a movie set, things are different.
The Dan Abrams show @VRBeauty referred to went over this.
There are very specific rules on a set.
There's a production assistant in charge of firearms.
When the actor is handed the weapon, the person handing them the gun is responsible to secure the weapon and inform the actor of the status of the gun. Unlike other situations where, if someone hands another person a weapon, the recipient is responsible to check if it's loaded. The actor isn't supposed to check- a specific person on the job is responsible for that.
Of course, there are still so many questions...and the fact the Alec Baldwin was the producer......looks really bad

 

[missy]

Yanno, I am sorry if I am sounding like a b***h but it is not acceptable that this happened. Alec Baldwin fired the gun that killed that poor woman and injured another. Everyone involved in cutting corners and not being super careful and doing their due diligence is responsible IMO.

Alec Baldwin knew better and that makes it even more egregious. A gun is a serious weapon. You handle it with respect. A human being is dead because of this. No, no excuse is acceptable. They cut corners, they knew better, they were warned and still it happened. And they get to go back to their lives and what about the woman's family? Her child? What a tragedy.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Missy- I didn't mean to be "defending" Baldwin.....other than pointing out how protocol was not followed, meaning it's possible that Baldwin, as an actor, was given a loaded gun at a moment he was supposed to pull the trigger.

Nothing can make this better... from the reports corners were cut, and that too can be attributed- blamed on Baldwin's actions.
It's a horrible situation.
I feel bad for everyone involved.
Maybe it will change things so that CG is used in all cases instead of any sort of live weapons being on movie/tv sets....

 

[kenny]

...

Police have literally used the phrase that Baldwin is a "free man". He must be absolutely distraught.

...

I think the police just meant that, at this time, Baldwin has not been detained, charged, or arrested.
... rather than he has nothing to be distraught about.

 

[kenny]

Yanno, I am sorry if I am sounding like a b***h but it is not acceptable that this happened. Alec Baldwin fired the gun that killed that poor woman and injured another. Everyone involved in cutting corners and not being super careful and doing their due diligence is responsible IMO.

Alec Baldwin knew better and that makes it even more egregious. A gun is a serious weapon. You handle it with respect. A human being is dead because of this. No, no excuse is acceptable. They cut corners, they knew better, they were warned and still it happened. And they get to go back to their lives and what about the woman's family? Her child? What a tragedy.

I do agree, and hope he's charged with some form of manslaughter.

 

[kenny]

The one who pulled the trigger is at fault with any firearms incident. Fundamental firearms rules were broken.
Him being the director puts him 2x responsible.
From what is coming out there were other non-lethal incidents before this one with firearms on the set that should have thrown up a huge red flag to stop and fix before someone gets killed..
That makes him 3x responsible and irresponsible for not fixing the issues.

Process fail.

I've worked in management.
Some things are the employee's job, like learning and following the company's processes instead of doing their own thing.
Some things are management's job, like making sure the company's process are (pardon the pun) bulletproof.

One thing this tragedy has shined a spotlight on here is the need to change the process.
The actor SHOULD check the gun.
When it comes to firearms, better safe than sorry.

FWIW, Baldwin was a producer not the director.

 

[Calliecake]

No gun on set should have any type of bullets period. In this day and age they can edit the gun shot sounds in later. Was nothing learned from Brandon Lee’s death?

I can’t imagine walking in Alec Baldwin shoes. I don’t think I would ever be able to forgive myself.

 

[kenny]

No gun on set should have any type of bullets period. In this day and age they can edit the gun shot sounds in later. Was nothing learned from Brandon Lee’s death?

I can’t imagine walking in Alec Baldwin shoes. I don’t think I would ever be able to forgive myself.

Brandon Lee just wasn't famous enough for our pea-brained celebrity-obsessed culture.
Baldwin is.

Sad it's that way.

I suspect going forward sets will have no bullets/rounds (or whatever other names are used) of any kind.

 

[Lookinagain]

Process fail.

One thing this tragedy has shined a spotlight on here is the need to change the process.
The actor SHOULD check the gun.
When it comes to firearms, better safe than sorry.

I agree the process should change. What I don't understand if why "real" bullets would ever be needed on a movie set.

 

[mrs-b]

And also FWIW - since there was no unlawful act involved, my understanding is that manslaughter doesn't apply. And altho this isn't necessary, since he was heard asking if the gun was loaded, and was explicitly told that it wasn't, there's no way to accuse Baldwin of an unlawful act. This is a snippet from the 911 call:

<quote> A 911 call that alerted authorities to the shooting at the Bonanza Creek Ranch outside Santa Fe hints at the panic on the movie set, as detailed in a recording obtained by the Albuquerque Journal.

"We had two people accidentally shot on a movie set by a prop gun, we need help immediately," script supervisor Mamie Mitchell told an emergency dispatcher. "We were rehearsing and it went off, and I ran out, we all ran out."

The dispatcher asked if the gun was loaded with a real bullet.

"I cannot tell you. We have two injuries," Mitchell replied. "And this (expletive) AD (assistant director) that yelled at me at lunch, asking about revisions....He's supposed to check the guns. He's responsible for what happens on the set." <end quote>

From what I can gather, the walk-offs from the set were predominantly in relation to accommodation. As time has gone by since the accident, tho, the walk-offs seem to be receiving a degree of spin. Alec Baldwin is a polarizing personality, so this response is not surprising, I suppose.

Just to add - a very famous example of an actor shooting directly at the camera would be virtually every James Bond movie. In fact, that position is iconic in the franchise. Alternately, virtually any western movie gun fight. I haven't heard anyone suggesting that all the previous James Bonds individually check every gun they fired - but as with many things, hindsight is 20/20 for all of us and precaution tends to follow accident, rather than the other way around.

 

[kenny]

I agree the process should change. What I don't understand if why "real" bullets would ever be needed on a movie set.

I believe they are not.
This was either a human error or foul play.

 

[missy]

I agree the process should change. What I don't understand if why "real" bullets would ever be needed on a movie set.

Or blanks. They don’t need either.
With CGI guns don’t need bullets or blanks at all. Everything can be added post production.

 

[kenny]

Or blanks. They don’t need either.
With CGI guns don’t need bullets or blanks at all. Everything can be added post production.

I agree 100%.

I suspect CGI costs more than blanks.
Like many businesses film makers like to minimize costs.
But then, this "accident" might result in some very expensive lawsuits for the studio.

 

[Calliecake]

With all the attention this received I would hope no guns with bullets or blanks will be allowed in the future in any set. Unfortunately this won’t ease the pain of this poor woman’s family.

 

[missy]

I agree 100%.

I wonder whether CGI costs more than blanks.
Film makers, like many businesses, like to minimize costs.

And if what I am reading is true-shortcuts were taken (in order to save money) jeopardizing safety and (perhaps) leading to the tragedy.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisa...ety-on-movie-set-where-alec-baldwin-shot-two/

 

[dk168]

I don't understand how exactly the film's director and the director of photography got shot.
Were they also actors in a scene that called for Baldwin's character to shoot them?

If not, was Baldwin horsing around pointing the prop at them and pulling the trigger?
If so, why didn't he stop shooting after the first person went down?
And if so, could Baldwin be charged with manslaughter?

I wonder whether cameras were rolling and it was caught on film.

The latest news article I read mentioned the scene that was being filmed was for AB to point the gun and shoot at the camera.

Very tragic, whatever happened.

R.I.P..

DK

 

[Rhea]

Brandon Lee just wasn't famous enough for our pea-brained celebrity-obsessed culture.
Baldwin is.

Brandon Lee died in 1993. Having the internet on one's phone, a computer in one's pocket, didn't happen until about a decade or more later. It may have something to do the fame of the actors involved, sure, but it also simply has a lot to do with the access and availably of that information. It certainly wasn't all over (non-existent) social media at the time.

Things will be learned from both deaths. Injuries and deaths within the industry are often discussed (I have family in the industry, though it's huge and I'm sure a lot of us do) because film sets can be terribly dangerous places, the injuries not involving guns just don't make it to the media in the same way (perhaps because our pea-brain sensationalist culture doesn't care if it's not guns?). Guns are checked and cleared more rigorously following Brandon Lee's tragic death. It's not that nothing was learned from before, but processes can and do fail, as we've seen, so more changes or stricter handling will hopefully be called for.

Society wants films to look real, not look like cheesy imitations. Most of us have probably rolled our eyes at crappy CGI and graphics when leaving the theatre before. The push for that puts more pressure on the film studios to get those shots, that action, that excitement. We, and film unions, need to maintain, expect and push for rules and laws that put safety of the actors and workers at the forefront and when it fails (because I'm a realist, it will fail sometimes), have processes in place to reassess before proceeding.

 

[missy]

@Rhea I respectfully disagree. I think CGI is sophisticated now and realistic enough. The pace of improvement has been rapid and technology evolves quickly.

There is no question in my mind that guns should be banned from film sets given that computer generated imaging offer a much safer alternative. No reason at all to have guns loaded with bullets or blanks on set anymore. Maybe it isn't perfect but having guns on set is an unnecessary risk IMO. What cost do we put on human life?

It seems that Rust was on a shoestring budget and they didn't hire experts in the gun field and safety was not the priority. Plus creating realistic CGI is expensive. They went for the cheaper option. Effective wizardry (using CGI) is expensive.

Hey, if safety measures were paramount and firearms were handled responsibly this would not have happened. But when you put people into the equation mistakes are made. Especially when those people are cutting costs and being sloppy. And Alec Baldwin was a producer on the set so yes he is responsible as are all the other people who decided to cut costs and endanger lives.

That is why I personally feel that firearms should not be used on movie sets and instead CGI should be employed. IMO. Because people make mistakes and put the "almighty" dollar over the lives of humans.

Most importantly, NEVER point a gun at a living being. Unless you are defending your life or the life of your loved ones. NEVER point the gun at someone.