Alexandrite Help - Engagement Ring

[Darkwind]

Yes jstarfireb those could be a consideration too, thanks for the suggestion I'd like to thank everyone for some useful tips/knowledge. Going to start the plunge and e-mail David Wein for his input. Cheers!

 

[Darkwind]

I might have prematurely stopped asking for help here

I'm in conversation with David at multicolour and we have the search narrowed down somewhat on the stone. Waiting for him to send a few photos between contenders. May post them here for advice/comments/suggestions.

Next up is the setting. I was wondering with alexandrites are there certain setting considerations so has not to darken or mess up the colour change effect etc? It's likely that the shape of my alexandrite will be an oval. Going to just skip the side stones altogether for simplicity's sake. Below is the type of setting I was considering based on my girlfriend's preferences provided there's no complications:

http://pinterest.com/pin/562668547164460055/


Her ring styles in general:
http://pinterest.com/krpiersma/ring/


Chatting with Canadian customs, duty on a ring is 6.5%, plus provincial tax is 15% Whereas there is no duty on a loose gemstone "just" the 15% provincial tax. In light of that I was debating whether it'd be best to just purchase the stone and get the setting locally or from a jeweller in the US - provided it's somewhat close to me along the eastern coast of US could take a road trip New York for example. Or if I'm best spending a bit more and letting David take care of that too.

Also (and random) but I notice for some alexandrite stones there will be 3 colours listed as opposed to two. Just curious why that is? i.e.

http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/alexandrite/yax511ac/&930512007

Gordon

 

[chrono]

All the settings shown will not be an issue with the alexandrite; they are all quite open in design with white diamonds. I do think side diamonds will add a bit interest to the ring and one can never go wrong with accent diamonds. If you have a good local jeweller who does good work at competitive prices, I would opt to stay local. You get to save on the tax plus it is easier to pop into the shop at any time to track the progress of the setting (discuss design, tweak CADs, see the final outcome, etc).

It is likely that the 3 colours listed is due to having it shift under 3 different light sources.

 

[Darkwind]

Thanks Chrono, glad to hear the settings shouldn't be a problem. Not sure about accent diamonds haha but I'll ask her. David sent me a comparison video of the two alexandrites I'm considering. I saved it and uploaded it so the alexandrite reference numbers aren't included, as it wouldn't be fun if someone bought the stone at this stage. Posting a link to it here and hoping some folks will give their thoughts/opinions.

Two Alexandrites in Various Lighting

Thanks in advance folks!

 

[LD]

Are the two in the video from different locations? I think they are.

I prefer the one on the left because the cut is better. Can you ask David for a handshot (any lighting) - both look to have slight windows but it's very difficult to be sure unless you see a photo straight on. A handshot will also give an indication whether the window will close up (I suspect it will in both).

How has David classed the strength of colour change? Neither of them look particular strong - ok (maybe good) but not strong. However, that could be because you are restrained by cost implications? Do you by any chance have the still photos of the colourway that you can anonymise so that they can't be found by a lurker? If you can't do that, I'd suggest asking David to put them on hold for 48 hours while you decide and to avoid them being snatched from under you. That way you can post freely knowing you're safe for 48 hours. I'd love to see the photos because they can be more telling (surprisingly)!

 

[Darkwind]

Hello again LD, sure I'll ask David for some pictures as well. A bit disappointed to read they don't look strong. David graded the one on the left 5/3 for both colours. Will post more once I have some pictures to show.

 

[chrono]

A difficult choice but I prefer the one of the left too. A touch more lively. I agree with LD that both exhibit small windows but I am quite sure once set, it will be difficult to spot. I hardly see any purple / red as well. Interestingly, one stone looks more greenish while the other looks more bluish.

 

[minousbijoux]

Wow, I think I'm going to say a lot about those alexs! Both of them have pretty rudimentary cutting and if it were most stones, I would say pass because well, they're okay but not great. However, this is not just any stone, this is alexandrite! It would be likely that if you were to wait around for one that had your specs and was well cut, you likely would be waiting years, and I wouldn't be surprised (LD feel free to jump in here) to find out that you might actually pay a premium for a very well cut alex, as good ones are so rare that they probably don't want to waste an iota of it to make the cutting better.

The one on the right has a high crown - I love high crowns - and just from looking at their profiles, I would've picked this one as the better cut. The other one has a flat crown/low table and looks bleh from the side. But I'm afraid to say that the left one wins out in this contest for several reasons. In this case, color trumps cut (there you guys! You've finally heard me say it; probably the first and last time I'll say it so clearly as I can't stand windows and wouldn't have one even if it had great color). But in fact, even though from looking at their profiles I might've chosen the right one, from the top it has what looks to be a window (actually, their both windowed, but the window on the right one really takes away from the color of the stone and I doubt you'll be able to eliminate it when set) The one on the left in daylight/fluorescent light has a bit greater intensity of color and is bluer and steelier and the one on the right has more of a teal color. From what I see, I would categorize them as both light to medium in tone, with the one on the left slightly darker in tone. Both of them seem to react to the fluorescent light in the same excellent manner, with the intensity seeming to amp up a bit (this is very nice to see as so many stones react poorly to fluor light). The left one appears to lose much of its steeliness and becomes blue with flashes of purple/violet; the one on the right turns more intensely teal with flashes of blue. Then along comes incandescent. The left one reads as slightly more saturated, more cranberry or reddish wine colored; the one on the right seem to have a slight brownish bit to it, which makes it read less red going toward the cool side and more peach/rose/reddish. If you are seriously considering this one in hand, I would want to make sure that that does not come off as appearing muddled, brownish or subdued in certain lighting.

The neatest thing was seeing their reaction in mixed light. I have seen many alex which just go muddy in mixed light - which, given the colors at play, you'd expect to happen. But there is surprisingly little of that happening in these stones. Instead, what I see are gorgeous flashes of each colorway. Really pretty.

But a good question for LD is whether the video is a good representation of what one might see in real life in mixed lighting. It could be that David's light sources are so pure and distinct from one another that there is not blending which would make it appear muddy - I don't have enough firsthand experience with alex in mixed light to answer this, as I have just a few. LD? Anyone else?

In summary, I would knock out the right one and go with the left one, if, after viewing handshots and stills they're both still in the running.

Btw, did you see this? [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/his-and-hers-custom-alexandrite-rings.184953/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/his-and-hers-custom-alexandrite-rings.184953/[/URL]

 

[LD]

Wow, I think I'm going to say a lot about those alexs! Both of them have pretty rudimentary cutting and if it were most stones, I would say pass because well, they're okay but not great. However, this is not just any stone, this is alexandrite! It would be likely that if you were to wait around for one that had your specs and was well cut, you likely would be waiting years, and I wouldn't be surprised (LD feel free to jump in here) to find out that you might actually pay a premium for a very well cut alex, as good ones are so rare that they probably don't want to waste an iota of it to make the cutting better.

The one on the right has a high crown - I love high crowns - and just from looking at their profiles, I would've picked this one as the better cut. The other one has a flat crown/low table and looks bleh from the side. But I'm afraid to say that the left one wins out in this contest for several reasons. In this case, color trumps cut (there you guys! You've finally heard me say it; probably the first and last time I'll say it so clearly as I can't stand windows and wouldn't have one even if it had great color). But in fact, even though from looking at their profiles I might've chosen the right one, from the top it has what looks to be a window (actually, their both windowed, but the window on the right one really takes away from the color of the stone and I doubt you'll be able to eliminate it when set) The one on the left in daylight/fluorescent light has a bit greater intensity of color and is bluer and steelier and the one on the right has more of a teal color. From what I see, I would categorize them as both light to medium in tone, with the one on the left slightly darker in tone. Both of them seem to react to the fluorescent light in the same excellent manner, with the intensity seeming to amp up a bit (this is very nice to see as so many stones react poorly to fluor light). The left one appears to lose much of its steeliness and becomes blue with flashes of purple/violet; the one on the right turns more intensely teal with flashes of blue. Then along comes incandescent. The left one reads as slightly more saturated, more cranberry or reddish wine colored; the one on the right seem to have a slight brownish bit to it, which makes it read less red going toward the cool side and more peach/rose/reddish. If you are seriously considering this one in hand, I would want to make sure that that does not come off as appearing muddled, brownish or subdued in certain lighting.

The neatest thing was seeing their reaction in mixed light. I have seen many alex which just go muddy in mixed light - which, given the colors at play, you'd expect to happen. But there is surprisingly little of that happening in these stones. Instead, what I see are gorgeous flashes of each colorway. Really pretty.

But a good question for LD is whether the video is a good representation of what one might see in real life in mixed lighting. It could be that David's light sources are so pure and distinct from one another that there is not blending which would make it appear muddy - I don't have enough firsthand experience with alex in mixed light to answer this, as I have just a few. LD? Anyone else?
In summary, I would knock out the right one and go with the left one, if, after viewing handshots and stills they're both still in the running.

Btw, did you see this? [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/his-and-hers-custom-alexandrite-rings.184953/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/his-and-hers-custom-alexandrite-rings.184953/[/URL]

Yes you're right about cut. If you get a well cut Alex you're lucky. They do cut for weight with this gemstone. The MAJORITY are poorly cut and this is the norm.

In terms of muddiness .......... it is a common misconception that this happens frequently. It doesn't. This only happens where you have a green/olive/orangey/peach one. These are very poor Alexandrites. If you look at Multicolour, you'll see that they are always priced much lower than the better (more expected) colour of green/purple. The video is accurate for this colourway of what you would expect to see in mixed lighting - so I would say that David has done a phenomenal job of managing to capture this (how he does it I have no idea but I find it impossible). These ones will definitely not, 100%, go muddy.

If, and it's a big if, the video is a true representation of colour in all lights, my only concern is that the saturation is fairly weak and the colour change (because of the saturation) is not as pronounced or dramatic as a more saturated gem - BUT - this is based on the video. If the OP has spoken with David about what he wants/can afford then fingers crossed David will come through for him and the two in the video are the best options.

 

[minousbijoux]

Thanks, LD. Really good information about muddiness. I agree about the saturation of these, though they still have a pronounced change of color. The color change may not be super intense due to saturation issues, but at least they seem quite attractive, especially the one on the left.

 

[gma]

Hello, i purchased my alex at a gem show. I was fortunate that both gems had gia certs on them. Multicolor is very reasonable in terms of price and quality. I paid $3,879 for a .54, .80, oval cut stones along with .99 carats of 2.9-3.5 mm round milles. The dealer was from bangkok and was Pleasant
and took off $989 off of the asking price due to me paying him in gold bullion. R

 

[Laila619]

What about tsavorite as a green stone for an e-ring?

 

[Darkwind]

Here's the handshot picture David sent me.

He mentioned that the two stones are very close in almost every aspect but they both have very small inclusions probably invisible to normal eyes without magnification. The one on the right has a small inclusion hidden under the crown facets and the other stone has a cloudy spot a little more visible.

In terms of grading David lists them as follows: the one on the left is rP 5/3 and vstbG 5/3 with a medium tone for both colours and very slightly grayish saturation for both colours.

The one on the right rP 5/2 slightly grayish saturation and vstbG 5/3 very slightly grayish saturation, tone is medium for both colours.

In terms of budget there's on my high end of nearly $4000. These are the ones he recommended. So if the more experienced eyes [This means pretty much everyone on these forums ] think these aren't really stellar I'm not sure where I can go from here... neither of these are large stones but the price point is already near my max and even if my budget was higher for the size I'm looking at I don't see "upgrade" options on his inventory aside from pear shapes which my gf wants to avoid.

An exception being: (but let's not go there I do need food money )
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/single/alexandrite/zx165ab/&930512007

 

[LD]

Mmmmmmm - well after seeing the handshot, the one on the right is better BUT the light flooding the photo means it's difficult to assess properly. I've got to be honest and say I'm not sold on either. I knew the one on the left had the better colour change but they both look quite grey - although interestingly this may be less noticeable when you get it.

I think I would be tempted to see a handshot and video of the more expensive one (the $7k one). It has a HUGE window but you can be innovative with the setting to minimise it. Can you do that so at least there's a comparitor?

In the meantime, tonight I will go through Multicolour's stock and see if I can find alternatives. Is your budget around $4000-5000?

 

[chrono]

If, and it's a big if, the video is a true representation of colour in all lights, my only concern is that the saturation is fairly weak and the colour change (because of the saturation) is not as pronounced or dramatic as a more saturated gem - BUT - this is based on the video.

LD,
This is what I meant by my not so good experience with MC. I find the saturation of the stones to be slightly less than stated when I get to finally see it in person. In order to have my expectations in line with what arrives, I shop for stones that are listed as one range higher.

 

[Darkwind]

Hi LD, yes my budget for the stone is $4000 max and when I import it I'll have a 15% tax put on it that will add to the cost. However, even if my budget was $5000 I don't see much more that would be available on MC in that range. There are a few pear shapes that seem interesting but this is a shape that she'd like to avoid. Is it possible that his inventory is on the low side this time of year? I've limited my search so far to about 1 cts as I know they really jump in price as they get bigger. I'm fine with going under 1cts and looked a bit, just as long as the stone is long/wide enough to be the solitaire. Thanks for taking a look for me later on

I did meet with a local jeweller and design wise we're going with a 5mm Lucida ring...and possibly with 6 3mm princess cut stones - 3 on either side as accents.

 

[gma]

Hello, new to the site, here are my wife's and I alex rings, hers is .54 and mine is .80. Hope this helps as far as size goes. These stone are very difficult to photo

 

[gma]

.80 color change

 

[LD]

Hi LD, yes my budget for the stone is $4000 max and when I import it I'll have a 15% tax put on it that will add to the cost. However, even if my budget was $5000 I don't see much more that would be available on MC in that range. There are a few pear shapes that seem interesting but this is a shape that she'd like to avoid. Is it possible that his inventory is on the low side this time of year? I've limited my search so far to about 1 cts as I know they really jump in price as they get bigger. I'm fine with going under 1cts and looked a bit, just as long as the stone is long/wide enough to be the solitaire. Thanks for taking a look for me later on

I did meet with a local jeweller and design wise we're going with a 5mm Lucida ring...and possibly with 6 3mm princess cut stones - 3 on either side as accents.

Darkwind - do you know your good lady's ring size? That will help to knw whether you can go down to 5mm - if you then add on sides like you say (apologies if you've said this before and I've forgotton)!

In terms of Alex, and I'm sure I've said this before, so again apologies if I have, the reality is that you pay for what you get in Alex from Multicolour. If his stones are at the lower price end, that will reflect the quality - at the higher end and you're likely to get a winner. I'm stressing Multicolour because I've seen Alex elsewhere sell for absolutely stupid/crazy prices that DON'T reflect the quality!

In terms of Multicolour's inventory - they have the largest inventory of Alex you'll find anywhere. It won't change much because there is so little of it being mined. Seriously this IS a rare stone despite some small amounts being mined. When you compare the number of mines/size of the find/quality of the find to other gemstones, it's very much tipping towards the "rare" gemstone end.

Did you explore with David any of the rings he's already got? Do you remember I linked you to a small round one? That one is far far better than the ovals and don't forget you won't have to add the cost of a ring. You'd still have money in your pocket. I won't link to it again in case you get a lurker pouncing.

 

[Darkwind]

Hello again LD, thank you for your continued interest in helping out. She got remeasured when we went into the shop yesterday. She's a size 5.5. Not sure if the one you linked earlier could be resized that small? On the site he doesn't have an option for that small a ring size for the ring in question.

 

[LD]

Hello again LD, thank you for your continued interest in helping out. She got remeasured when we went into the shop yesterday. She's a size 5.5. Not sure if the one you linked earlier could be resized that small? On the site he doesn't have an option for that small a ring size for the ring in question.

Happy to help Darkwind. Well, the smallest size for the ring is 6.5. Looking at the setting, making it smaller by 1 size may be possible - although you'd have to get a good jeweller to check all the prongs on the sides of the ring (not the head, that'll be ok), to make sure they are still holding all the diamonds securely. A good jeweller will be able to do this. Maybe David could do it at his end???? The other option is to have small balls of white gold put inside the ring shank. This has two benefits (1) it makes the ring smaller and (2) it stops the ring from spinning.

If you like the ring, why not ask David to photograph it for you (or do a video). I'm pretty sure the colour change on this one is absolutely glorious (if the photos are accurate). It knocks the two you've linked to out of the game for me. Granted, it's not a huge stone BUT the quality is what you're paying for.

Here's another worth looking at. It has a larger central stone, is within budget but the colour change is not quite as good as the other one although it's nice.

http://www.davidwein.com/jewelry/alexandrite-white-diamond-and-white-gold-ring-00108164/overview/181/10/2

I really like these because this cut is not common in Alex. The colour change looks good as well.

http://www.davidwein.com/jewelry/alexandrite-white-diamond-and-white-gold-ring-00108089/overview/181/10/2
http://www.davidwein.com/jewelry/alexandrite-and-white-diamond-gold-ring-00106818/overview/181/10/3

Don't forget, you can always change the ring setting at a later date if you want. It's much more difficult to find a good Alex!

 

[minousbijoux]

Darkwind, I want to reassure you that you are in the right place (Multicolour) and here working with the right person (LD), so I'm not trying to complicate things at all, just trying to be another helpful voice.

First off, I can't recall - what is your timeframe again?

Second, can you prioritize what you seek? For example, is the most important thing dramatic color change? Shape of stone? Level of saturation? Cost? I ask because LD is suggesting you go back and take a look at the ring, which has a good alex in it. When she originally posted that ring, I was surprised, as it seemed completely different stylistically from what you were seeking. I know LD will forgive me for speaking for her when I say that it is not her intent to push you towards a style that is not your own, its just that she knows good stones when she sees them (is that fair to say LD? Please feel free to correct me here as I am acting like I can speak for you, lol). If you like the stone, you could see if David would consider selling it to you without the setting.

Also, as I can't remember time frames, is there any way you could work towards the nicer more expensive alex? Perhaps you could work with David to hold the stone for you and pay it off over some months (don't know if he even does this, but he is so well regarded and seemingly easy going that it seems like he would be willing to work with you). You could always get her a special "now" stand-in stone knowing that the real deal will be coming...don't know if this works at all for you.

As to the stones he showed. The daylight shot does look flooded with light and there is still quite a bit of color apparent so that is good news. They both definitely have a greyish quality, but it is not displeasing at all. The one on the right is So ruled out for me due to the window. That said, I defer to LD, who can tell you whether you are ever to come across one without a window. The one on the left has a small bowtie, but again, we're talking about alex here, and I probably shouldn't even bring it up. Finally the thing that surprised me about the grading is how he grades the one on the right for its incandescent colorway. He rates it a rP 5/2. I definitely see something else in that one that is more brownish than the one on the left. I was pleasantly surprised by the handshots and would seriously consider going for the left one. That said, you didn't tell us your reaction when you saw those handshots. Honestly - tell us your first reaction, please?

 

[minousbijoux]

Just a point of clarification - When I was speaking of the ring LD linked to, it was the beautiful and expensive one on page one of this thread. I think she did a great job in finding stones and settings that keep somewhat of the spirit of what you seek, above. They are small stones, but the whole ring is within your budget and they look to have lovely color change. I have a bias and like Brazilian stones best, as from my limited experience, their colorways are more appealing - more reddish than orange or brown and more pronounced greenish/bluish.

I'm still puzzled by what to my eyes is a pronounced different in the reddish colorway on the right stone with no real recognition of that fact

 

[LD]

If you like the stone, you could see if David would consider selling it to you without the setting.

This is a brilliant idea that I hadn't thought of! Not sure whether David would agree but, if you're looking for princess cut side stones, why not go for one of the emerald cuts? Instead of princess cut side diamonds you could also look at emerald cut diamonds - oh WOW that would be lovely! A trilogy of emerald cuts

Even if David won't separate stone/setting then the $4k is still within budget for your stone only so maybe it's possible to keep the "David" setting for something else - that way you have two rings!!!!!!

Is your lovely lady dead set against a pear? Has she tried any on? They're surprisingly elongating to the hand and have the advantage that they can look bigger than their carat weight.

Minou - I don't understand your comment about the red not being accounted for? Isn't David's grading r/P????? Am I missing the point?

 

[Darkwind]

Hi Minou, I'm not bothered by a time frame at all the girlfriend however is definitely ready...she's next to me as I type this searching multicolour...and poking me. Got her to revisit David Wein's jewellery and while it is very nice isn't quite her style a bit too much bling for her as she puts it. For the record I think his style is awesome but not quite for her. So the game plan is to get the stone from multicolour and work with a local jeweller which we met up with yesterday.

Her ideal is a solitaire Lucida ring with an oval, princess or round shape - so it'll probably be oval. I have asked her a number of times about pear shapes and she's given it some thought, looked at them online and in the jewellery store but it's a shape she doesn't care for which is a shame as there's a nice one at around 1.3 cts.

I restated her ring size thinking it would give folks an idea of what minimum stone size might be needed (length and width wise). We were planning on going with a thick band if possible -between 4-5mm.

I was looking at around 1cts ovals stones. In terms of my own impressions of the 2 stones so far I liked the one on the left due to the more reddish colour, also liked how it looked in mixed lighting. Didn't really care for the colour of either when I saw the handshot, not awful but didn't really grab me either, I thought the stone would be more vivid and more green instead of well grayish.

What I told David was that in general I am more inclined to go with a smaller stone of high quality rather than larger of medium quality. Also that an attractive colour change in any type of lighting is the an important quality as this will be an engagement ring.

There are some stones in the .7 cts range that I'll turn to next. I'm sure we'll get there just not quite there yet. Will chat with David some more as well and see where we can go from here. Will ask him about the stones in his jewellery as well, good suggestion.

 

[chrono]

I agree that since the budget cannot budge, I'd rather go a bit smaller in order to get better colour. Great colour in a small stone will stand out more over dubious colour in a larger stone.

 

[minousbijoux]

I too, agree that its better to go for quality over size. I wish there were rules of thumb for size of stone based on ring size, but unfortunately, its an intensely personal choice. If you will not have any embellishment, then you'll obviously need a bigger stone. This is not my expertise, and others should weigh in with their suggestions, but I wouldn't think you'd want to go much smaller than 5 x 7mm if it were to be a solitaire. Since she is right with you throughout this process, why don't you look at the smallest size stone you're considering, cut out the dimensions, color it accordingly (in other words, don't leave it white, and don't make it a vivid color, but try to come close to the greyish blue/green, and/or the not super saturated reddish purple, and then see how it feels on her finger. Is it the right size? Too small? Room to go smaller? Would it look okay if it had two small diamond side stones? Could you save money by going smaller in size and then put the saved money towards the side diamonds? At this point, I think you'll just need to play around to see what feels/looks right to you and your fiance.

I hope that helps!

 

[Darkwind]

For those of you who are curious, the two stones we've looked at so far are:

http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?-1825648441 the one on the right
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?-1053579459 the one on the left

Pretty much not interested in either so go ahead lurkers

Been scanning the website alexandrites a fair bit and stumbled upon one that has a good colour change but is fairly silky. Asking David to get some handshots of it and here's a video for now.

Silky Alexandrite Video

Not sure this much silk is something to be worried about or not? Will learn more once I see some pictures I suppose.

 

[minousbijoux]

Oh no!!!!

Please tell me you won't seriously consider that stone! The other stones at least were light in tone enough to register the color change. This one, at least from the video, looks like the range is bluish charcoal grey to reddish charcoal grey. I'm not trying to be catty or sarcastic; it just looks flat out ridiculously dark in the video...

 

[LD]

This is interesting and I understand why David may have suggested this. With Alex, silk can actually enhance the colour change - amazingly so. However, on the flip side is whether the overall look is affected. With this stone I think it is because the silk is in a band diagonally across the middle of the stone so absolutely something that couldn't be ignored. I wonder if this would annoy you or not? I have one like this (although more silky) and have some photos if you want to see.

Funnily enough, if David can't take one of the stones out of the rings (have you asked him?) then I'm still favouring the one on the left especially after seeing the still photos.