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Am I Cheap

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All of this talk about spending as much as you can to show how much love you have for your lady is bogus. If the woman really loves her man, she would be happy with a CZ theoretically.

About cheapness, not to disparage anyone or generalize... but I can only imagine if it was the woman''s job to buy the man an engagement ring. My guess is that the average carat size would be closer to 0.15 than 1.0 carats.
 
I am currently saving up (I just started working after finishing grad school and don''t want to touch my stocks) for a watch for my SO as a (belated) engagement present. Yes, this will be in addition to the wedding gift. There is only a $1500 difference in cost between the watch he wants and the 3+ carat stone I received. So, I take offense to your comment that women would not spend the same. Also, remember that people have grown up differently, people have different incomes, and people have different standards. Do I think jacknovak was being cheap? No. But I don''t think it''s fair to say his SO is greedy or thinks money matters most. You can''t go making assumptions about people like that. I know we''re all doing it, but isn''t it always better to assume someone''s innocent until proven guilty? I am disappointed that so many people are jumping to the conclusion that people are equating spending as much as you can as how much you love someone. I really don''t think that''s the case for most girls (I know it''s not the case for me or I''d currently be sporting a MUCH bigger ring that was colorless and flawless as, technically, we could have afforded to spend more). I just think people should try placing themselves in someone else''s shoes before condemning them--haven''t you ever been disappointed about something while simultaneously feeling very fortunate and happy? Haven''t you ever taken a moment to reflect on that disappointment and realized you were just being silly? I personally don''t see anything wrong with feeling that bit of disappointment. In fact, I think it''s great that his SO felt comfortable enough to share her feelings--open and honest communication is much more important than pretending to be ecstatic when you''re not....
 
Oh, and Lakerkobe, I am 100% in love with my man but it doesn''t mean he won''t disappoint me at times. Would I be happy with a CZ? Not really. But I wouldn''t love my man less or think less of him. I would just think he didn''t know me very well if he gave me a CZ--I would prefer a plain band to a CZ. But, if he gave me a ring with a CZ and said he wanted to replace it later with a diamond when he could afford it I would wear that CZ proudly until the day I die (and would never let him replace it with a diamond). I guess it''s more knowing my man took my feelings into consideration.
 
Date: 4/25/2005 11:41:14 AM
Author: lakerkobe
All of this talk about spending as much as you can to show how much love you have for your lady is bogus. If the woman really loves her man, she would be happy with a CZ theoretically.

About cheapness, not to disparage anyone or generalize... but I can only imagine if it was the woman's job to buy the man an engagement ring. My guess is that the average carat size would be closer to 0.15 than 1.0 carats.
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It's NOT about the MONEY. It's about knowing your to be's preferences, desires & your recognition of such. It's a sacrifice to yeild to someone else's desires than your own. To each his own. Your to be may not even want a ring. She may think it's a waste of money. It's important to know that as well.

Women aren't marrying the diamond. They are marrying the individual. But, what that individual chooses to do is very telling.

By no means am I saying go beyond your means. It's also the responsiblity of your fiancee to accept YOUR financial state. It's equally telling if one can't afford much & the fiancee to be is insisting the man take on debt for a bigger ring.

The engagement & subsequent wedding planning many times is the first negotiations/compromise/work out that couples face.

Edited to add: Your are right. If I were to pick out an engagement ring for my then BF, I wouldn't buy one. He doesn't wear diamonds or jewelry for that matter. I would have bought him an engagement drafting board. It's what's more important to him.
 
"It''s NOT about the MONEY. It''s about knowing your to be''s preferences, desires & your recognition of such. It''s a sacrifice to yeild to someone else''s desires than your own. To each his own. Your to be may not even want a ring. She may think it''s a waste of money. It''s important to know that as well."


And what, pray tell, did you buy him?


My point is that if it was customer for the woman to buy the man a ridiculously expensive piece of earth to wear on his body as a sybol of their love and marriage, I believe that a LOT less money would be spent.
 
Date: 4/25/2005 12:11:58 PM
Author: lakerkobe
''It''s NOT about the MONEY. It''s about knowing your to be''s preferences, desires & your recognition of such. It''s a sacrifice to yeild to someone else''s desires than your own. To each his own. Your to be may not even want a ring. She may think it''s a waste of money. It''s important to know that as well.''


And what, pray tell, did you buy him?


My point is that if it was customer for the woman to buy the man a ridiculously expensive piece of earth to wear on his body as a sybol of their love and marriage, I believe that a LOT less money would be spent.
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He asked of nothing from me. But, let''s see - what did I buy him? - I GAVE him the honeymoon (2K), the downpayment on our first car (4k), a tuxedo (500), simple wedding band ($150.00), and 20+ years of my unconditional love (priceless).

Are we keeping score?

The issue isn''t the MONEY. It''s about recognizing your partners desires. I wouldn''t spend one bloody dime on an expensive piece of jewelry for him to wear. He doesn''t desire it.
 
lakerkobe,
It seems you are the one hung up on money, or at least on spending money on a diamond. You''re right--there probably would be less money spent on diamonds if it was women doing the proposing. As fire&ice suggested, women would spend the money on things that are meaningful to their men. I know my SO REALLY wanted a watch so I''m saving up. He also would love to upgrade his sailboat to a yacht, etc. The point I''m trying to make is you''re correct in that the average male would not want a big diamond. BUT, that doesn''t mean men wouldn''t want something special, something that was meaningful to them and showed some thought and consideration. If you believe it would be otherwise I don''t know what to say. I do whatever I can (within my means) for my SO, just as he does for me. It''s not about being materialistic--it''s about knowing your partner and what their heart desires.
 
I''m not hung up on money at all...

The point of my post is that I just cannot fathom at all how anybody (woman or man) could receive a gift such as the one the original poster gave his fiance and be disappointed.

If it is not about the money, then why is it about the size of the diamond for a lot of women?
 
Date: 4/25/2005 12:25:20 PM
Author: lakerkobe
I''m not hung up on money at all...

The point of my post is that I just cannot fathom at all how anybody (woman or man) could receive a gift such as the one the original poster gave his fiance and be disappointed.

If it is not about the money, then why is it about the size of the diamond for a lot of women?
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You say you are not hung up on money, but then say the point of your post is that you cannot fathom how anyone could receive ''a gift such as the one the original poster gave his fiance''....

When you say a gift such as....do you mean a $3500 gift? An expensive gift rather? And how could she be disappointed with that expensive 3500 gift?

In that case it WOULD sound as thuogh you are talking about the money. She got a pricey gift and wants a bigger one.

I would venture to say that the size of the diamond does not usually equate to money/cost in a woman''s head for an engagement ring. It''s not as though I think...wow I want a 1c...oh that''s $6000, that''s not enough! I want a 2c which is $12k! Rather it is probably more about the ''stone size'' and that means MONEY to buy it obviously. There is another thread regarding the average diamond SIZE, it''s not titled average diamond COST.
 
Date: 4/25/2005 12:25:20 PM
Author: lakerkobe
I''m not hung up on money at all...

The point of my post is that I just cannot fathom at all how anybody (woman or man) could receive a gift such as the one the original poster gave his fiance and be disappointed.

If it is not about the money, then why is it about the size of the diamond for a lot of women?
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I would have been more than happy with this e-ring. That''s not really the point.

Her disappoint arose when her to be was thinking about spending more money on a drumset for himself. Transcend that thought.

I''m sensitive to this issue. I''ve seen a marriage head for trouble from the beginning with the choice of an enagement ring. This is a friend''s son. Had the money to buy whatever. Future to be LOVED jewelry/diamonds. Bought 1/3 of a carat without much thought - maybe in the same shopping trip when he bought his BMW convert. Women was thrilled to be engaged. Bells of alarm went off in my friend''s head. She was right. He wasn''t ready for the sacrifice of marriage & they divorced within 2 years. Was he selfish/cheap - can''t really say that. But, I think you can draw conclusions that he wasn''t in tune to the give and take partnership a marriage takes on.

It''s not the end result. It''s the symptom
 
Well said, Mara! Bravo!!!
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I suppose I am not surprised by the (over)reaction to my thoughts.

Double standards are just beautiful.
 
It''s not a matter of double standards. I think I''m safe in speaking for F&I and Mara when I say we were just trying to get you to UNDERSTAND what we were saying. You seemed to get the wrong messages from our posts, so I was happy when Mara seemed to hit the nail on the head (as did F&I, I just read her post too late). It''s frustrating when someone misinterpretes what you''ve written. Obviously we''re doing the same with you as you keep telling us we''re not getting it.
 
Date: 4/25/2005 12:40:39 PM
Author: lakerkobe
I suppose I am not surprised by the (over)reaction to my thoughts.

Double standards are just beautiful.
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What part of spending money on an expensive piece of jewelry for my husband a WASTE - do you not get?

No over reaction. No double standard. Just plain good old COMMON SENSE. I would get the reaction of complete and utter confusion from my husband. Then, a "What the F.?" and a "are you out of your mind look."

I feel sorry for you if you don''t think you SO wouldn''t reciprocate with putting as much thought into a present for YOU.

Marriage isn''t about keeping score.
 
Researcher - I'm not sure you were around. But, Mara - doesn't this not have SHADES of Jlim?
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Edited to add: This is what happens to me when I am doing mad accounting work on the computer.
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That name doesn''t ring a bell with me, but there have been others I''ve experienced who refuse to listen to what''s being said and instead twist everything around. Actually, when you brought this up I just realized I''ve almost been a member for a year now--time sure flies!!!
 
Laker, you say you cannot fathom how a woman could be disappointed by a nice ring...

I saw that you''re planning to get your gf a platinum semi-bezel setting for her ring because that''s the setting she likes. What if you ended up giving her a setting that cost the same amount, but was yellow gold, six prong Tiffany style? Wouldn''t she probably be a little disappointed, even though it was still a very nice ring?
 
no F&I....if kobe was jlim he''d be getting a D IF at Tiffany!
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because that''s what every girl wants!

re: double standards, its just amazing to me how someone can say that if women had to buy the e-ring for the man that it would be a cheapo...that''s a huge generalization and rather debasing of women i would say,

you say you are not about the money, kobe, but every post you wrote here in this thread screams the opposite.
 
What amazes me is that guys can want tons of expensive things for themselves and their hobbies - sports cars, plasma TVs, watches, golf clubs - and no one thinks anything of it. But if a woman wants a large or nice e-ring, all of the sudden she''s labeled as a gold-digger, superficial, shallow, etc. No one ever seems to think "she must really enjoy diamonds and have a passion for them" as their first response.

I know some women like large diamonds merely because they are expensive, but many (and most here) truley have an appreciation for jewelry and diamonds, and aren''t just interested in them as some sort of status symbol. Just like some men drive BMWs because they like the status associated with them, and others drive them because they really like cars and can appreciate the improved driving performance.
 
Wow....hum lakerlobe I think you are wrong. My BF wants a Breitling, we both love watches. I have one that was a gift from my father. I have been saving money for that watch (about 8,000) since our two year anniversary. Do I have the money yet? Nope, and I bought him a titanium Citizen ecodrive as a "promise ring" of sorts. I was 19 at the time and it was 450$. Not cheap but I love to give him stuff. It makes me happy to have him happy.
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After reading your post I sat down and thought about the money we had spent on each other. [$$)]Adding it up I have probably spent more on him, and going to see him. However I am not paying my way through college, and he is and his school is 40k a year with out living expenses and mine just isn’t. We are in different place in terms of money. It is likely that his watch will cost more then my ring. I don’t care. I am not marrying a piece of jewelry, I am marrying my best friend and a person who can comfort me and show me he cares even from a thousand miles away.
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We show our love in different ways, he helps with my math, statistics things and draws me wonderful charcoal pictures and writes me long letters. I send him goofy scrabble things and buy him anything I think might brighten up his day. We spend money in different ways. That being said I would feel stung if he went out and spent more on something that he didn’t need then he did on my ring.
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Neither one of us is working full time and college life isn’t cheap so we are in that way similar to the original poster.
My point is that she isn''t wrong for feeling hurt that he bought her something smaller then she expected. Those expectations had to have come from somewhere and if he knows her, he ought to have recognized that. I would love a huge diamond myself, my mothers is large and the girls I spend the majority of my time with have ones from 1.5-3 maybe a litter higher. However it is also the lifestyle we will live and that the couple in question live. I won’t be living the same way once I am married. So I will be okay with a smaller ring. To be honest I would say yes to a twisty tie.
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But to a certain degree the circle we operate in affects a ladies feelings about such things.
Love is loving the person more then you love yourself. And part of that is at times giving up things for the other person. I think that fiancée in question is feeling like he values his needs and desires over hers and that hurts.
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It isn’t the size of the ring, but rather a measure of his devotion, and it seems to me that if he is willing to settle as he puts on a drum set for 2k now and buy a 4k one once he gets a new job… well that doesn’t sound very nice.
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He is going to spend twice as much on drums then on the single most emotionally significant piece of jewelry she will ever wear? I would be hurt too.
 
All I can say to those of you who are so upset by my opinions on the matter is... and forgive me if I don''t remember the quote exactly...

"Thou doth protest too much"
 
Is there a "bang my head on a door" icon?
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I wish there was!!!
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"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."


--From Hamlet (III, ii, 239)
Did you set up this thread to see if PSers were golddiggers? Giving yourself a wee bit too much credit I''d say...
 
Pardon the intrusion
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I just want to thank RockDoc for his gracious words. Bill, you didn't need to say all of that…Thank you.

Just a FYI to the OP: If you revisit the drumset question once you’re through your diamond dilemma, be aware that you can get a first-class kit with great hardware and cyms - all top brands - for $2K and change very easily (unless you're looking for something monstrous). PM me if you want to discuss that side of things.

On-topic: For what it's worth, I believe the terms of tokens exchanged between two people should be decided-on by those two people...and both need to feel good about those terms.
 
I happen to also have a $3600 engagement ring that I am thrilled with. It's true that I didn't reciprocate with a present of commensurate value. My engagement present to him was tickets to Phantom of the Opera in London, and a $60 J. Crew sweatshirt that he really wanted but decided to forgo, due to the expenses of our trip the next day to England. But I will also pay off more than $40,000 of his student loans (he'll pay off $10,000 of mine), so if you want to look at it monetarily- he's contributing $13,600 and I'll contribute $40,000. I don't think that makes me a gold digger at all. I *am* spending a lot of money on him- it just doesn't come in the form of an engagement token.

(I just wanted to let people know I definitely don't believe that marriages should be about keeping score financially, but this example just worked well as a response to lakerkobe.)
 

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."






THANK YOU. That is what I meant.
 
Date: 4/25/2005 11:53:16 AM
Author: researcher
I am currently saving up (I just started working after finishing grad school and don't want to touch my stocks) for a watch for my SO as a (belated) engagement present. Yes, this will be in addition to the wedding gift. There is only a $1500 difference in cost between the watch he wants and the 3+ carat stone I received.
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researcher

what kind of watch are you getting him? i love mechanical watches.
 
lakerkobe

Pricescope is a diamond appreciation forum. If you are expecting an accurate reflection of most womens views on an engagement ring from this place then you are not very intelligent. Clearly the diamond part IS more important here, and if you have a problem with people valuing and appreciating diamonds then let me encourage you to leave this place to those of us that enjoy such things.
 
I don''t think anybody here is being cheap, but I fully understand the reaction of your fiance... In Europe, we do not have that ''Engagement Ring Culture'' that Americans have... It''s a key thing for Americans and it is very deep into the society.. You get engaged (as a woman), you get a diamond ring (usually a lot of money), you wear it forever. Fulll stop. You have been ''breathing that air'' for all your life... So it''s only fair that you rise your expectations about your ring and hope that you get the best/biggest/nicest ring possible.. I have to admit that, in that situation, I would be upset if my fiance bot me a ring smaller than what I expected because of budget restrictions and started to talk about how much he''s going to spend in a set of drums...you cannot compare the connotations of both things (one, signifying your engagement, to last forever, to wear forever and the other.. well.. a set of drums
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Suggest her to upgrade the ring later on... maybe when you get a new job... even give her the ''priority'' (1st her upgrade, then your drums), of course, only if you have a good upgrading policy in your jeweler...

But don''t try to change society now
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ER are important in your environment, you cannot change that and going into big discussions like ''why an expensive engagement ring at all'' are useless, especially in a forum like this... !
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