Are dissenting opinions allowed here?

[SLCDJ]

Great Answer! I guess I was assuming the same, but was simply curious. I appreciate your consideration in responding.

BTW, Your remark about Grandma, Fido and Beethoven gave me a good chuckle, but that would be an interesting assignment, no doubt...Here's to hoping no one turns Bin Laden into a diamond!

 

[sxt173]

To each their own. My 2 cents is that if I am holding 2 stones and they are both identical to the molecular level, what is the difference beyond one costing almost 15x more due to good marketing.

I am in a position to afford the real thing, but choose to go the other route, b/c
#1 It is sometimes more of a challenge / thrill to source the cultured stones in colors like pink since they are made in very low quantities
#2 The cultured stones have a minuscule fraction of the environmental destructive footprint of "natural" diamonds
#3 You get "green" cred
#4 I would never think of it in the way you put it: "what would your fiance think if she finds out it's cultured"? I would state that to begin with as a proud fact.

Again, to each their own, but I don't believe in the artificial pricing of the ones that grow underground..

btw, a cultured diamond is not the same as glass. I'm very confused why you would think cultured is fake, but mined is real? They are identical, they are both diamonds. Not varying level of different grades of diamonds, but identical. 'Fake' is a perception.

 

[sxt173]

By the way DenverAppraiser, have you done any appraisals on MMD's? I am curious to know how one derives an appraised value on them. This may not be the appropriate forum for such a discussion, so please forgive my ignorance, perhaps I should start a new thread.

Yes, I've examined and appraised quite a few.

The most common appraisal is done for insurance replacement purposes and the question at hand is what it would be reasonably expected to cost to replace the subject property with another of like kind and quality at retail and in the most appropriate marketplace in the case of a loss. That definition alone probably answered your question. Indeed a fair number of appraisal type questions can be answered by simply looking at the definition of value being used for the assignment. For that type of assignment it's a matter of looking to see what similar items cost, at retail, today, and then writing a report about it. That's the same way appraisers generally arrive at a value conclulsion for natural diamonds by the way (assuming insurance documentation is the purpose of the assignment). In terms of documentation it's also just about the same. Describe, photograph, scan, and document the item and it's pedigree so it can be replaced if required. MMD's aren't all that hard to shop, the list of potential suppliers if fairly short and they're all nicely transparent in their pricing structures. Occasionally mountings can complicate things but, for example, how much a 0.80ct dNea fancy light blue SI round would be expected to cost is something you could look up in under a minute with darned good accuracy. Easy peasy.

Wanna know a tricky appraisal problem on MMD's? How about 'memorial' gems? These are stones that have been manufactured using carbon atoms supposedly extracted from Grandma, Fido or Beethoven. Replace THAT Mr. Insurance adjuster.

So how do appraisals work for MMD's that are no longer cultured? For example, pinks are becoming almost impossible to find since the major manufacturers are now concentrating on clear. What happens when a $6000 cultured pink's closest replacement is a $50,000 mined pink since the original is no longer manufactured?

 

[EEFranklin]

So how do appraisals work for MMD's that are no longer cultured? For example, pinks are becoming almost impossible to find since the major manufacturers are now concentrating on clear. What happens when a $6000 cultured pink's closest replacement is a $50,000 mined pink since the original is no longer manufactured?

I'm not speaking for Neil, but not having a pink MMD in-stock is a little different than not being able to find any new pinks in the ground. More MMD's can always be grown. All synthetic pink diamonds are grown as a yellow or off-white diamond then irradiated and annealed to make them pink, no matter who tells you otherwise. To make a new pink diamond, you just have to send a yellow or off-white diamond for treatment.

That being said, the most asked for shades of pink, like "bubble gum" are quite difficult to achieve. Most come out a vivid to deep reddish/pinkish/purplish color. The color distribution for treated synthetic pinks is quite similar to treated mined diamonds (Not mined as pink, but mined as off-white then treated to make them pink.).

As to the rarity, we have treated more pink diamonds in the last year than in any other prior year, and are sending more to be treated soon. Even if we do grow more white or blue diamonds than yellows, we can make a new yellow diamond at any point in time, so I don't think the current comparable inventory will have a whole lot of impact positive or negative on the appraisal value.

As an aside, by being able to better control the growth of white diamonds (and nitrogen levels within them), we should be able to make better off-white diamonds that can be made into lighter pinks, though that is still off in the future.

 

[TristanC]

I am sitting in both camps. I kinda dislike diamonds for their inherent 'worthlessness', and appreciate the 'green' credentials of man made ones.

I hate natural colourless diamonds for the sheer idiocy of inflated pricing that is the marketing legacy of the product. Honestly they should cost a lot less. Especially since you typically get between 30-40% for a brick and motar bought diamond when you attempt to resell.

Yet I am infinitely thankful for the professionalism and the immense resources thrown into understanding a gemstone so completely that the diamond industry has allowed.

Hence, even though emeralds/sapphires/rubies have been around and appreciated a much longer span of time in human history, people seem to know more about diamonds, and there seem to be far more specialised diamond cuts, grading, tests for fraud etc, and you get lovely hearts and arrows stones, asschers and hearts etc.

I love the environmental angle of synthetic diamonds, but in a way it is inherently flawed. To really be green is to do without, rather than being pleased that there is a man made resource that alleviates diamond mining. Raw material for grown diamond is also mined and manufactured, there are still shipping and energy costs etc. Certainly overall it should have much less environmental impact to grow a diamond rather than mine one, but there are so many angles and views that it simply isn't so cut and dry. Demand for lab grown diamonds (or diamonds in general) stems from the appreciation of the marketing message and the desire to own a diamond and all the associated stuff we are keyed in to feel societally since young due to a phenomenal ad campaign - and it is this desire that is fuelling the mining anyway. If girls didn't want natural diamonds, nobody would make a single lab grown one because nobody would want those too. I'm not eloquent enough to elaborate further on this but I think you know where i'm getting at.

On the other hand Fancy coloured diamonds are a minor miracle. Colourless diamonds are fairly scarce, but fancy ones are really rare, and when polished truly uniquely beautiful. Somehow owning one is special in itself, and truly a priviledge of the more well to do.

The best parallel might be somewhat like owning art. It isn't to everyone's taste, it is also insanely valuable in the case of some master's works. You can get an excellent reproduction to hang at home, but it isn't quite the real thing. Much cheaper yes, almost indistinguishable to the majority of everyone sometimes, but you would never feel good claiming that it is the real thing. I believe 99% of everyone with a lab grown diamond will also happily declare that the beautiful stone is a lab grown one. But it really isn't to everyone's taste.

If you are in love with a painting, so much that you wish to gaze upon it daily, and the original costs some ludicrous 7 figure sum? Yes, a very high quality reproduction might be wonderful to hang up. Me? I would just do without. I'll buy what I can afford, and be glad to leave it to the rich to donate collections to museums from time to time and stroll through public collections.

So same for diamonds. I would avoid colourless stones, as I don't fancy overpaying for marketing hype. I would get a few fancy coloured gems if I can every afford to, because they are rare and special to me, and I hope to one day visit the aurora collection in person. I would not however, buy a man made.

 

[denverappraiser]

So how do appraisals work for MMD's that are no longer cultured? For example, pinks are becoming almost impossible to find since the major manufacturers are now concentrating on clear. What happens when a $6000 cultured pink's closest replacement is a $50,000 mined pink since the original is no longer manufactured?

That's not a particularly close replacement since the #1 value attribute, that of being synthetic vs. natural, is completely different but it’s a valid question and it applies to LOTS of things in the insurance business. How do you replace the work of an artist who is now deceased? How do you deal with antiques? What about items with special provenance (meaning value that comes from the ownership history)? It’s a common problem with watches, where the manufacturer changes the model slightly every year and completely discontinue them frequently. A 20 year old watch is almost certainly not available new from the manufacturer anymore and, in all honesty, what you lost was a used watch anyway so the company is probably being fair to find a used one as a replacement if they can. Variations of this apply to nearly every item you've got insured. Not every company deals with it in the same way and the choices are to find one on the secondary market (meaning used), they can offer an alternative item that is ‘comparable’, or they can cash out for the face value of the policy.

 

[pkanawha]

Great thread! I really hadn’t realized that there is so much interest in/affection for the synthetics. But I have to admit that their advocates have valid points. Even so I’m still rather biased towards natural stones. Since I was a child I’ve been fascinated with rocks and all things geological. As little boys my brother and I spent hours searching for pretty rocks in the neighbor’s driveway. And then one day it occurred to me that those boring clear things called diamonds are actually rocks! And that they’re not always clear. And that they’re anything but boring!! I’ve been a bit obsessed with them ever since. Maybe this is why I would always greatly prefer a natural diamond to a synthetic one. I believe that the ever improving technology of lab created diamonds will cause them to continue to lose their value just as synthetic corundum (rubies and sapphires) have. Therefore I would certainly never spend very much on a lab created diamond. Still, if I could get one cheaply that was attractive, I guess I might consider one. But it would always be my second favorite ring after any natural diamond I might have.

 

[innerkitten]

Most of us wouldn't care if our neighbor got a haircut we didn't like so why would we care if they got a synthetic diamond just because WE might prefer the real thing.

 

[innerkitten]

Great thread! I really hadn’t realized that there is so much interest in/affection for the synthetics. But I have to admit that their advocates have valid points. Even so I’m still rather biased towards natural stones. Since I was a child I’ve been fascinated with rocks and all things geological. As little boys my brother and I spent hours searching for pretty rocks in the neighbor’s driveway. And then one day it occurred to me that those boring clear things called diamonds are actually rocks! And that they’re not always clear. And that they’re anything but boring!! I’ve been a bit obsessed with them ever since. Maybe this is why I would always greatly prefer a natural diamond to a synthetic one. I believe that the ever improving technology of lab created diamonds will cause them to continue to lose their value just as synthetic corundum (rubies and sapphires) have. Therefore I would certainly never spend very much on a lab created diamond. Still, if I could get one cheaply that was attractive, I guess I might consider one. But it would always be my second favorite ring after any natural diamond I might have.

I think most people on this forum share that fascination with rocks and minerals ( from an early age even). Thats why Pricescope is so cool. We can talk about rocks with others that share our interests.

 

[ieatbugs]

I just paid over $16,000 for a 0.12 ct. GIA Fancy Deep Blue (no modifier).
Why?
Becuase it's real. (and it's purdy)
It came out of the earth with this color.
That means something.
That means a lot, well, to me anyway.

For that price I could have bought a larger synthetic blue diamond.
Why didn't I?
Well, because it is not natural.

If I'm going to buy something man made, why not just buy glass?
Glass is much cheaper than a synthetic blue diamond.
Both are fake.

Imagine proposing with a "diamond" and she finds out you cheaped out and bought a fake!
What does that say about you and how you feel about her?
I'd rather it be small than be fake.

I do not think the marketing people of synthetics can persuade people like me.
Sorry.

Kenny, as someone who has made the decision with my partner to purchase a synthetic, I think you're overlooking most of the reasons why people might decide to opt for a synthetic.

Personally, given my budget, I could either have a real diamond, or a moissanite ring that looks exactly how I want and a downpayment on my house.

I'd rather have the downpayment on a house than the real diamond.

But your post almost sounds like you want people who choose synthetics to feel bad about their choices, and I don't agree with that.

 

[periwinklegirl]

Good for you, ieatbugs! (great name, btw). I'm always delighted to hear of people who are choosing lab grown over mined.

I share a deep love of fcds with Kenny, but we differ over origin (all mine come from D.NEA!). I now have pink, blue, and red!

What colour are you and your partner considering?

 

[ieatbugs]

Good for you, ieatbugs! (great name, btw). I'm always delighted to hear of people who are choosing lab grown over mined.

I share a deep love of fcds with Kenny, but we differ over origin (all mine come from D.NEA!). I now have pink, blue, and red!

What colour are you and your partner considering?

I hope to find a peachy pink colored moissanite that I can have set in rose gold!