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Are we too elitist & doing 99% of newbies a disservice?

Are good at helping enough newbie buyers?

  • Total voters
    118
$5000 is a lot more than the $0 resale value for MMD that PSers and the tradesmen here keep repeating. It will be interesting to see how many thousands it ultimately sells for.
 
Batgirl76 said:
$5000 is a lot more than the $0 resale value for MMD that PSers and the tradesmen here keep repeating. It will be interesting to see how many thousands it ultimately sells for.
Click to expand...

Let’s watch it and see what she gets.

She didn’t get $5,000.

She has listed it for $5,000. Which is supremely overpriced imo.
 
Batgirl76 said:
$5000 is a lot more than the $0 resale value for MMD that PSers and the tradesmen here keep repeating. It will be interesting to see how many thousands it ultimately sells for.
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When trade people are saying they have no resale value, they are meaning back to the trade - like you could not take your lab grown diamond to most brick and mortar stores and get credit for it to put toward a new purchase or whatever. That IS the case. eBay would of course not reflect that because that is not who they are selling too.

PSers as far as I’ve seen have been mostly saying we suspect prices will continue to go down until they bottom out at similar to moissanite or even CZ, depending how cheap manufacturing gets. We’ve seen that happen with MANY synthetic stones that were originally priced high. There are only two reasons that would not happen: if the manufacturing process never progresses to that point, or if there’s a “historical DeBeers” level of market control and price fixing.

Like I’m sorry if that is upsetting to you, but it’s what we realistically think will happen. It in no way impacts the beauty of lab-grown diamonds and multiple PSers who think this will happen still have bought lab-grown diamonds. But it’s definitely a thing buyers should be aware of in case potential future resale value factors into their decision.
 
She paid $13,764 and is hoping to get $5,000 for it. That is a hell of a depreciation, and she hasn’t been able to sell it for 5k yet.
 
@Ella would you be of assistance if you think it is ok to move the MMD detailed threads off of this one and on to a new thread? If you think it is appropriate and thank you for your time. It seems several posts on this thread could be added to that thread to clear up Garry’s main post here.

Thank you.
 
Actually, the topics of “elitism” and “lab vs. mined diamonds” go hand in hand, IMHO. But if the mods think otherwise, so be it :)
 
Batgirl76 said:
Actually, the topics of “elitism” and “lab vs. mined diamonds” go hand in hand, IMHO. But if the mods think otherwise, so be it :)
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Well, you have an agenda and it’s off topic to what Garry is asking, IMO, so you deserve your own thread on what you want to discuss just like Garry should have his own space.

Win/win
 
I think Garry can do his own bidding. And, like me, he has his own agenda and has made that clear in the MMD section.
 
Batgirl76 said:
I think Garry can do his own bidding. And, like me, he has his own agenda and has made that clear in the MMD section.
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Garry is the director of Pricescope. Does that help you out?
 
Garry, feel free to ban me and move or remove my threads/comments.

You can decide what message that sends to the rest of the members.
 
whitewave said:
@Ella would you be of assistance if you think it is ok to move the MMD detailed threads off of this one and on to a new thread? If you think it is appropriate and thank you for your time. It seems several posts on this thread could be added to that thread to clear up Garry’s main post here.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Ella doesn't read every post.

If you want admin to hear you I recommend you report your own post.
 
Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
This statement is so very true. There are so many really well meaning and smart savvy folk contribute here on PriceScope to guide people in buying and selecting a top diamond, I think we have a huge problem.
1. Less than 1% of visitors ever sign up and post.
2. The advice we give here is often way over the top and complex for non rocket scientist woman/man in the street.
3. Many young people in love are worried about making the life time commitment choice. Working long hours etc in their new career. They just want to make a quick safe and simple OK selection.

They may not have time to learn our jargon or the desire to spend scarce spare brain power.

We can be way too elitist.

I think we could help 50 times more people get a good enough diamond and setting at a considerable saving without getting 'enchanted' out of their money.
Click to expand...

Others have brought it up and it’s been in my mind. I think a lot of people think of buying diamonds like buying a used car. They think they are going to get hosed no matter what they do.

We have so many buyers who come here wanting to know if the diamond they chose has the appropriate value for their money.

So that is definitely something— they want reassurance they bought a good diamond that was worth the money they spent for it.
 
kenny said:
Ella doesn't read every post.

If you want admin to hear you I recommend you report your own post.
Click to expand...

Good point. Maybe this thread will right itself and get back on track in the meantime
 
Hi,

Traffic has certainly slowed since I started to read Rocky Talky. Yes, sometimes PSers are a bit dogmatic in how they recommend diamonds. And this information, that was new back when, is now more available on the internet. But, that should've been expected. Ah, also Facebook.

One suggestion that I have is to unseparate "Show me the Bling " and let people show their finished jewelry on Rocky Talky. One place, I think, as it used to be, where new people can ask questions and see the finished product, all in one place.

You need the younger crowd, its missing from PS. Even on Hangout, the topics are deadly to me. It should be lively, with new thinking and listening better to new people.

Discussion and finished products on the same page or thread. Cut is still king, but you don't need super ideal

Annette
 
I do sort of feel more and more buyers are reading the archives and are showing up with Asets for their first posts, so I feel like lately (last year or so), there aren’t that many people that need the amount of help we used to give.

Has anyone else noticed that?
 
smitcompton said:
Hi,

Traffic has certainly slowed since I started to read Rocky Talky. Yes, sometimes PSers are a bit dogmatic in how they recommend diamonds. And this information, that was new back when, is now more available on the internet. But, that should've been expected. Ah, also Facebook.

One suggestion that I have is to unseparate "Show me the Bling " and let people show their finished jewelry on Rocky Talky. One place, I think, as it used to be, where new people can ask questions and see the finished product, all in one place.

You need the younger crowd, its missing from PS. Even on Hangout, the topics are deadly to me. It should be lively, with new thinking and listening better to new people.

Discussion and finished products on the same page or thread. Cut is still king, but you don't need super ideal

Annette
Click to expand...

That is an interesting idea about showing finished pieces in rocky talky. I sort of did that when I was looking for input... start a thread on rocky talky “I’m thinking about doing this” and using that thread for all the walk throughs, and then the big reveal goes on SMTB.
 
Paul-Antwerp said:
Hi TODiamonds,

I did not post anything about our product or service. I posted about consumer desires and satisfying these desires.

My belief is that consumers have a desire to purchase diamonds, because they wish to enjoy wearing it or seeing it worn every day, day-after-day enjoying fantastic Sparkle and Scintillation.

I do not believe any consumer sets out his or her journey wanting to satisfy certain stats in the following 3 C's, Carat weight, Color (as graded by the lab) and Clarity (as graded by the lab), to then see what is 'good enough' in probable Brightness in combination with his or her budget. Most of the times, it is only when they start researching, visiting jewelers and so on that they are fed with the system of the 4 C's, where one of the C's is hardly ever properly explained.

With an entire industry continuing to feed these 3 C's as the solution, that industry is missing completely the target of consumer-satisfaction.

Trust me, you stating that 95% of average users don't even know fire/scintillation/brightness is incorrect. The smallest child can see this and express preferences. One does not necessarily need to be able to explain it. Simply seeing it is sufficient. And once seen, it cannot be unseen. If the first question to a potential diamond consumer, starting his search, were 'Do you wish your future diamond to sparkle like crazy?', I bet that over 95% would answer positively. That essentially is my point about consumer-satisfaction.

Live long
Click to expand...

I think the only way to know what consumers want is to ask them. But that is problematic because the consumer can only answer based on their own experience.

I live in the UK. If you want a diamond ring in my neck of the woods you go to the Argyll Arcade. 30 shops all selling diamonds (https://argyll-arcade.com/). I bet most of my fellow Scots don't even know you can buy diamonds online.

I also bet if you were to ask each of the Argyll Arcade shoppers if they wanted their diamonds to sparkle, they would say yes. (The terms fire and scintillation might be beyond most; those were terms I learned from PS. Incidentally it turns out my preference is for fire, I can't explain it but I don't think I like scintillation.)

But if we go back to the 30 shops in the Argyll Arcade, I doubt any of those shoppers would even dream that their diamonds wouldn't sparkle, so they go with the stats that are on show, size and more recently, colour.

I agree that we can't unsee sparkle, but if you haven't seen 'real' sparkle to begin with, and none of your co-workers have diamonds with 'real' sparkle either, then you're not missing something you don't have.

I realise this ramble isn't assessing the OP's question, but from a research and marketing perspective, I think there is a danger in assuming what customers want without asking them and clearly defining in their own words their idea of consumer satisfaction.
 
I’ve only been here since the summer so I don’t know what PS was like years ago. What I do know though is that there are members here who seem to think that if even one measurement isn’t perfect, that the diamond is garbage. I’m fairly sure that in reality, if you placed 10 diamonds in front of the average consumer, oh which half have perfect measurements and half are ‘just’ triple excellent, most people would not be able to separate them correctly without seeing the specs. I’m betting very few people could pass that test.

Until I joined PS, I proudly wore an uncertified diamond that a local independent jeweler said was G/H and SI3 (a classification that doesn’t even exist). You know what? It was beautiful and eye clean. Never once have I compared it to friends stones side by side so to me, it was great. I’m not saying we should be promoting these stones to consumers but I think the current ‘super ideal or nothing’ mentality is a little bit much when the average consumer buying an e-ring just wants something beautiful and isn’t going to see the difference between the diamond they have vs. the best diamonds on the market.

When they (the average consumer) first started looking for a diamond, they were never expecting to buy the best diamond on the market, they just want a great diamond. It isn’t until they come here that they are told that their triple excellent, vs2, G stone is not good enough because the table is a little too big or the depth is a little too deep. And if they want, they can still send it back and spend more money to get a ‘perfect’ stone. Their original stone is likely beautiful in their eyes and in the eyes of anyone who looks at it, but now they are spending more money to get the tiniest bit more sparkle. An improvement that they won’t be able to measure and unless they are comparing side by side with another stone, they may not even be able to see the difference.
 
Rose-gold-or-bust said:
I’ve only been here since the summer so I don’t know what PS was like years ago. What I do know though is that there are members here who seem to think that if even one measurement isn’t perfect, that the diamond is garbage. I’m fairly sure that in reality, if you placed 10 diamonds in front of the average consumer, oh which half have perfect measurements and half are ‘just’ triple excellent, most people would not be able to separate them correctly without seeing the specs. I’m betting very few people could pass that test.

Until I joined PS, I proudly wore an uncertified diamond that a local independent jeweler said was G/H and SI3 (a classification that doesn’t even exist). You know what? It was beautiful and eye clean. Never once have I compared it to friends stones side by side so to me, it was great. I’m not saying we should be promoting these stones to consumers but I think the current ‘super ideal or nothing’ mentality is a little bit much when the average consumer buying an e-ring just wants something beautiful and isn’t going to see the difference between the diamond they have vs. the best diamonds on the market.

When they (the average consumer) first started looking for a diamond, they were never expecting to buy the best diamond on the market, they just want a great diamond. It isn’t until they come here that they are told that their triple excellent, vs2, G stone is not good enough because the table is a little too big or the depth is a little too deep. And if they want, they can still send it back and spend more money to get a ‘perfect’ stone. Their original stone is likely beautiful in their eyes and in the eyes of anyone who looks at it, but now they are spending more money to get the tiniest bit more sparkle. An improvement that they won’t be able to measure and unless they are comparing side by side with another stone, they may not even be able to see the difference.
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Good points, but I’m not sure I agree. Here’s why.

Angels and parameters do have real world implications for light return etc, so the pedantic numbers can very well make the difference between a performer and a dud.

I definitely think once you see an ideal cut diamond, you can’t unsee it. We have seen it over and over and over again, even with long term members. @soxfan for instance is used to old cuts, but when she got an ideal cut band, I felt joyous along with her because she was so delighted and impressed. I think she surprised herself. Maybe she will comment.

Also, we do get a certain percent of people who already have been given a diamond and something about it is bothering them (usually dirt lol). I specifically remember a Tiffany emerald cut that was throwing dark black windows that were distracting and she had to go back like 3 times to get one that was cut better.

I definitely agree, not everyone needs a perfect diamond. It’s like putting puzzle pieces together of budget, size, desires, etc. so I try to be more flexible and listen to what is happening in a thread.

And sure, some people here steer to super ideals because it’s easier and ticks a lot of boxes quickly. The fact that they are also in house and have already been vetted is attractive to a lot of buyers.
 
I like the separation of RT and SMTB because it makes the unspoken PS rule easy: nice reacts only on SMTB and mention every flaw on RT before someone buys something/if they are considering returning.

@Rose-gold-or-bust I think maybe that’s what you and other new people are missing? The point of criticizing everything BEFORE you buy is so that you go in knowing absolutely every downside and therefore will not regret that purchase or feel like you got taken advantage of - not like if you bought something then learned later it wasn’t a great cut or the clarity was bad or whatever. I think some people maybe can’t stomach that but I also think from a consumer education perspective it is absolutely the right way to go. Just about all of us own and love “imperfect” pieces, but we have made the choice to buy them knowing what they are and aren’t going to get a nasty shock later that will throw us for a loop. Knowing the downsides is part of being an informed buyer.
 
I don't think PS is elitist, but sometimes a simple question about what makes a pretty diamond at a reasonable price ends up involving a lot of numbers and long explanations. I don't see a way around it, but some folks just don't want to be bothered with the details of making a fully informed purchase decision if it involves numbers and anything resembling homework. I've always loved numbers and math and stuff, but I think I'm in the minority. At least I've usually been told that it's not normal to like numbers. :)

And sometimes it's just more fun to go buy something on the spur of the moment.
___________________________

www.adadiamonds.com/synthetic-diamond-facts-and-misconceptions/can-you-resell-a-lab-made-diamond-1

"Specifically, we are interested in lab created diamonds that meet the following criteria:
  • Cut - Excellent or Ideal Rounds
  • Color - D, E, F, G (no blue nuance)
  • Clarity - VS or better
  • Independent Certification - IGI NY, IGI Antwerp, IGI Dubai, or GCAL certified
  • Certification Date - 2017 or newer"
.
The $5000 stone discussed earlier is a J SI1
 
The big issue I have always had is that not everyone (shock horror) wants a triple ex cut super Ideal diamond. Some people actually prefer spready diamonds with big tables and a LOT of people that turn up here and out in the real world simply want more bang for the buck ie the biggest diamond they can get for x amount and will never shell out for a super Ideal versus something that is larger. To be blunt they don't care, and will never care about the HCA.

The only thing many people care about is having something that looks BIG and sparkly on the hand, something they can show off to everyone, rather than a triple ex cut, and that is just how it is.

Many of us here, myself included would prefer perfection (a better cut) over something larger that is less well cut. Just as some people show up here and want a D or an E or a IF stone. These are preferences.

As Kenny says "people vary" I don't think we have ever diamond wise catered to the differences in these preferences well. We do it a lot better over on the CS forum ie present people with a range of cuts (including not perfectly cut stones and not top coloured stones) in a MUCH wider range of prices.
 
MissGotRocks said:
What do you mean by preferential treatment? To my knowledge, we all pay the same prices as anyone else does. The vendors I have dealt with have always provided top hat service but to suggest that we receive anything different is presumptuous and without merit.
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What preferential treatment?. I always paid more than what diamonds are worth... ;( Meant to reply on TOD's post. Sorry MGR.
 
kenny said:
Newbies to PS vary.
Some want all the technical lessons. I did.
Others don't.
To each their own.

The thread title is, "Are we too elitist & doing 99% of newbies a disservice?"
I'd answer an emphatic, no.

First of all, 99%? ... of course not.
The actual percentage who do not want to spend time learning is unknowable, but it can't be anywhere near 99%.
The question, as phrased, is unanswerable.
A broken poll question means poll results are meaningless.

Second, Elitist? ... of course not.
How can good education ever be elite?
Unfortunately in my country, America, reason, education, even intelligence itself is increasingly poopooed by growing masses ... look at the moron they wanted for the white house. :nono:

BTW, PS is not all good education and advice; there are plenty of regulars here to give the advice, "All that matters is you love it". :rolleyes:
I could not disagree more.
Better light performance looks better.
Diamond material is expensive so few are cut to perform well, but the masses don't know this.
PS and Garry's HCA are a godsend that result in more people getting well-performing diamonds.

PS's education is a good thing; it results in getting a better product for your money.
Clearly some people can't be bothered with education, some even consider eduction itself to be elitist.
Fine.
Let 'em click out of PS and go to Zales, Robbins Bros, Kay, and Walmart to overpay for frozen spit.

Please folks, let's not dumb down PS.
Click to expand...

Completely agree - I think the question as presented was absurd.
 
Rose-gold-or-bust said:
I’ve only been here since the summer so I don’t know what PS was like years ago. What I do know though is that there are members here who seem to think that if even one measurement isn’t perfect, that the diamond is garbage. I’m fairly sure that in reality, if you placed 10 diamonds in front of the average consumer, oh which half have perfect measurements and half are ‘just’ triple excellent, most people would not be able to separate them correctly without seeing the specs. I’m betting very few people could pass that test.

Until I joined PS, I proudly wore an uncertified diamond that a local independent jeweler said was G/H and SI3 (a classification that doesn’t even exist). You know what? It was beautiful and eye clean. Never once have I compared it to friends stones side by side so to me, it was great. I’m not saying we should be promoting these stones to consumers but I think the current ‘super ideal or nothing’ mentality is a little bit much when the average consumer buying an e-ring just wants something beautiful and isn’t going to see the difference between the diamond they have vs. the best diamonds on the market.

When they (the average consumer) first started looking for a diamond, they were never expecting to buy the best diamond on the market, they just want a great diamond. It isn’t until they come here that they are told that their triple excellent, vs2, G stone is not good enough because the table is a little too big or the depth is a little too deep. And if they want, they can still send it back and spend more money to get a ‘perfect’ stone. Their original stone is likely beautiful in their eyes and in the eyes of anyone who looks at it, but now they are spending more money to get the tiniest bit more sparkle. An improvement that they won’t be able to measure and unless they are comparing side by side with another stone, they may not even be able to see the difference.
Click to expand...

Just for clarification, what criteria would you use to differentiate between the two?
 
MissGotRocks said:
Just for clarification, what criteria would you use to differentiate between the two?
Click to expand...

Between a great stone and a perfect one? I think it is fine to differentiate between them — but, I think it is important to know what the individual consumer is looking for. Not everyone buying a new car cares to buy a Lamborghini even if they could afford it. A lot of people would rather save some money and buy a Porsche.

A lot of people come here and say ‘here’s my budget, I want the best stone I can for that money’ and it is rightful to send them towards super ideals. But a lot of people are happy with the largest stone they can get that’s eye clean/white/sparkly and would rather not spend more than they have to.
 
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