SirGuy
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BC2 thinks this cushion is a great value, your thoughts?
- Thread starter sh00termcgav1n
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Hello again Iota 15 and Gypsy - Thank you for taking your personal time to give such detailed replies.
One of my functions for B2C is to provide management with feedback to improve client experiences. I feel perception is very important in a community like this and, to me, it sounds like your perceptions come from a few main factors:
* Peg-headed settings - thought to keep costs low.
The primary cost for any setting is the metal used. Cost to make a peg-head setting is identical to a preformed (built-in) setting since the molten metal is formed either in a mold with the prongs - or the prongs are created separately and joined later. Either way, cost is the same. The peg-head is used in large part to accommodate different shapes. The round brilliant is very popular on PS, but we sell a large number of fancy shaped stones and want to offer as many settings as possible to those clients.
There are 37 solitaire settings available, 9 are preformed and 26 use the peg-head design. This is not done for cost, but to have as much flexibility as possible for all shapes. Excluding halos, we have 14 diamond-accent built-ins, most of which are indeed for rounds, but our hope is to appeal to a wide-range of styles and tastes. I’m happy to tell you we expect to have several dozen more designs available in coming months – hopefully you will find selections among them you like. For those who like something that’s not in our inventory, or wishing to collaborate on a unique design, we do of course offer customized settings.
* Specific worries about Pave settings:
I’m proud to say that in 10 years of online sales none of our settings (Pave included) has had a bad review from our clients. We value feedback and monitor review sites constantly. If you know of someone who has had a negative experience please have them contact us! In the meantime there is abundant positive feedback in online review sites and I’d point to those in hopes of increasing your comfort level with our craftsmanship and quality.
I realize it may be natural to equate lower price to lower quality. While this can be the case in many situations our goal is to sell at a bottom line that’s appealing to consumers while still permitting us the margins to set a competitive standard.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
One of my functions for B2C is to provide management with feedback to improve client experiences. I feel perception is very important in a community like this and, to me, it sounds like your perceptions come from a few main factors:
* Peg-headed settings - thought to keep costs low.
The primary cost for any setting is the metal used. Cost to make a peg-head setting is identical to a preformed (built-in) setting since the molten metal is formed either in a mold with the prongs - or the prongs are created separately and joined later. Either way, cost is the same. The peg-head is used in large part to accommodate different shapes. The round brilliant is very popular on PS, but we sell a large number of fancy shaped stones and want to offer as many settings as possible to those clients.
There are 37 solitaire settings available, 9 are preformed and 26 use the peg-head design. This is not done for cost, but to have as much flexibility as possible for all shapes. Excluding halos, we have 14 diamond-accent built-ins, most of which are indeed for rounds, but our hope is to appeal to a wide-range of styles and tastes. I’m happy to tell you we expect to have several dozen more designs available in coming months – hopefully you will find selections among them you like. For those who like something that’s not in our inventory, or wishing to collaborate on a unique design, we do of course offer customized settings.
* Specific worries about Pave settings:
I’m proud to say that in 10 years of online sales none of our settings (Pave included) has had a bad review from our clients. We value feedback and monitor review sites constantly. If you know of someone who has had a negative experience please have them contact us! In the meantime there is abundant positive feedback in online review sites and I’d point to those in hopes of increasing your comfort level with our craftsmanship and quality.
I realize it may be natural to equate lower price to lower quality. While this can be the case in many situations our goal is to sell at a bottom line that’s appealing to consumers while still permitting us the margins to set a competitive standard.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
Gypsy
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Just saw this.
DIamond Hawk. Most of the diamonds in your settings are I SI2 clarity. I would NOT buy ANY diamond jewelry that has I Si2 melee. That's just not acceptable quality. And also, I know for a fact that with pave, the majority of the cost isn't in metal. It's in the labor. And, if your claim that 'the majority' of the cost of a setting is in the meta, then why do you such poor quality melee? As for your claim that peg heads aren't used for cost effectiveness but rather to accommodate more shapes. That's disingenuous. Peg heads are a convenience and an economy for the VENDOR so that they don't have to carry 200 styles of settings to accommodate a bunch of different shapes. It is so they can accommodate any shape with 15 cost saving designs that just needs an inexpensive head to switch out on a shank. There's nothing wrong with that. Just own it. But don't be surprised when we call you on it and tell you that to us it says "focus on economy" not "focus on quality and selection".
I really very it hard to believe that your settings of yours are really of similar quality as those on JA that posts real life images, uses quality melee usually around F/G VS. I just do not buy it. There's no evidence to support it.
You haven't offered any images of your real settings or of your pave work or of your melee. Which is something you could do. And you really haven't given a good reason WHY you don't post real images of your rings on the site. And while you attest to the fact that in all your years you haven't heard a complaint about your settings... assuming that's true: most people are ignorant. They wouldn't know good melee from bad. Good finish work from bad. Heck, most of them probably think Macy's has nice jewelry.
Pricescopers aren't "most people". Our vendor know that. We know quality. And I haven't seen anything in this thread to convince me that B2C has quality DIAMOND settings that I would recommend. Lots of evidence that you are loyal to your company are are great at the PR that they hire you for. But no evidence of the quality of your settings.
Compare these two listings:
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/halo/14k-white-gold-pave-halo-cabled-diamond-engagement-ring-item-17996 Halo with a plain, but twisted shank. $650. The actual picture shows very even pave. The metal work and polish are acceptable.
Similar setting from B2C: http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Accent-Settings/Diamond-Halo-Solitaire-Engagement-Ring-Twist-Shank-14K-White-Gold-10151-1.aspx More expensive at 799. No real picture of the setting. Just a CAD image. And I SI2 clarity. No idea what the finish details and metal
Why would I recommend anyone buy the setting from B2C?
Well, I wouldn't. And I won't. I'm sorry. It's NOT a good value. It IS high risk. And it would be irresponsible of me to say otherwise.
If you want us to recommend your settings you NEED to do three things:
1. Post real pictures of the settings.
2. Start using better quality melee. And I'm not just talking color and clarity. Cut matters with melee too. I've actually OWNED JA's melee. And I can tell you it is very nice quality.
3. Make sure your metal work and finish details are at least as good as those seen on JA.
DIamond Hawk. Most of the diamonds in your settings are I SI2 clarity. I would NOT buy ANY diamond jewelry that has I Si2 melee. That's just not acceptable quality. And also, I know for a fact that with pave, the majority of the cost isn't in metal. It's in the labor. And, if your claim that 'the majority' of the cost of a setting is in the meta, then why do you such poor quality melee? As for your claim that peg heads aren't used for cost effectiveness but rather to accommodate more shapes. That's disingenuous. Peg heads are a convenience and an economy for the VENDOR so that they don't have to carry 200 styles of settings to accommodate a bunch of different shapes. It is so they can accommodate any shape with 15 cost saving designs that just needs an inexpensive head to switch out on a shank. There's nothing wrong with that. Just own it. But don't be surprised when we call you on it and tell you that to us it says "focus on economy" not "focus on quality and selection".
I really very it hard to believe that your settings of yours are really of similar quality as those on JA that posts real life images, uses quality melee usually around F/G VS. I just do not buy it. There's no evidence to support it.
You haven't offered any images of your real settings or of your pave work or of your melee. Which is something you could do. And you really haven't given a good reason WHY you don't post real images of your rings on the site. And while you attest to the fact that in all your years you haven't heard a complaint about your settings... assuming that's true: most people are ignorant. They wouldn't know good melee from bad. Good finish work from bad. Heck, most of them probably think Macy's has nice jewelry.
Pricescopers aren't "most people". Our vendor know that. We know quality. And I haven't seen anything in this thread to convince me that B2C has quality DIAMOND settings that I would recommend. Lots of evidence that you are loyal to your company are are great at the PR that they hire you for. But no evidence of the quality of your settings.
Compare these two listings:
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/halo/14k-white-gold-pave-halo-cabled-diamond-engagement-ring-item-17996 Halo with a plain, but twisted shank. $650. The actual picture shows very even pave. The metal work and polish are acceptable.
Similar setting from B2C: http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Accent-Settings/Diamond-Halo-Solitaire-Engagement-Ring-Twist-Shank-14K-White-Gold-10151-1.aspx More expensive at 799. No real picture of the setting. Just a CAD image. And I SI2 clarity. No idea what the finish details and metal
Why would I recommend anyone buy the setting from B2C?
Well, I wouldn't. And I won't. I'm sorry. It's NOT a good value. It IS high risk. And it would be irresponsible of me to say otherwise.
If you want us to recommend your settings you NEED to do three things:
1. Post real pictures of the settings.
2. Start using better quality melee. And I'm not just talking color and clarity. Cut matters with melee too. I've actually OWNED JA's melee. And I can tell you it is very nice quality.
3. Make sure your metal work and finish details are at least as good as those seen on JA.
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Hi Gypsy,
Thanks for your time and opinions.
I do agree that many people don’t invest the time or energy demonstrated by the PS regulars - but that does not mean they are ignorant. The sailor getting ready to deploy next week, who wants to get engaged to his childhood sweetheart this week, might not have the budget for the setting she wants (or he would like) in FG VS. A guy getting ready for his second marriage may want to hit the 2-carat mark over all-else, even over an ASET and HCA score you and I would prefer. These people might take a different path than PS-ers recommend, but that doesn’t make them ignorant.
The below was helpful.
I do believe “better quality melee” depends on the final product. Surrounding a HIJK, SI center diamond – as long as all is well cut and the SI2 is good – creats a cost-effective solution for someone who can’t afford FG VS. This relates to my comments above and in the other thread about the “most people” who are not Pricescopers. Also, I’d note that (in terms of pave) the cost of labor differs dramatically in different parts of the world.
You can google “B2C Jewels Reviews” for (at least) an indication that the quality makes people happy. As for evidence, in the same way as I described B2C using ASET images now to serve this specific market as it relates to diamonds I would like to see us work to provide the evidence you describe for settings. And if that evidence still doesn’t convince, we can perhaps offer higher color-clarity options as well.
I posted in the other thread as well.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-hawk.203629/
Thanks for your time and opinions.
Ouch. In all candor, our client list includes some pretty sharp people.
I do agree that many people don’t invest the time or energy demonstrated by the PS regulars - but that does not mean they are ignorant. The sailor getting ready to deploy next week, who wants to get engaged to his childhood sweetheart this week, might not have the budget for the setting she wants (or he would like) in FG VS. A guy getting ready for his second marriage may want to hit the 2-carat mark over all-else, even over an ASET and HCA score you and I would prefer. These people might take a different path than PS-ers recommend, but that doesn’t make them ignorant.
The below was helpful.
I do believe “better quality melee” depends on the final product. Surrounding a HIJK, SI center diamond – as long as all is well cut and the SI2 is good – creats a cost-effective solution for someone who can’t afford FG VS. This relates to my comments above and in the other thread about the “most people” who are not Pricescopers. Also, I’d note that (in terms of pave) the cost of labor differs dramatically in different parts of the world.
You can google “B2C Jewels Reviews” for (at least) an indication that the quality makes people happy. As for evidence, in the same way as I described B2C using ASET images now to serve this specific market as it relates to diamonds I would like to see us work to provide the evidence you describe for settings. And if that evidence still doesn’t convince, we can perhaps offer higher color-clarity options as well.
I posted in the other thread as well.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-hawk.203629/
Gypsy
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Gypsy
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sh00termcgav1n
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well, it's here! excuse the poor iphone pics but it's as good as i can do 
i see no problems with the setting, it appears well done. the only thing i can even begin to see that may not be perfect is a couple of pave stones that seem a little more sunk into the setting than the others, and that's under me looking at it from certain angles, with a magnifier. will try and get it appraised soon and then insured.
i see no problems with the setting, it appears well done. the only thing i can even begin to see that may not be perfect is a couple of pave stones that seem a little more sunk into the setting than the others, and that's under me looking at it from certain angles, with a magnifier. will try and get it appraised soon and then insured.
luvdajules
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Gypsy
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jillianfl
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sh00termcgav1n
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Thanks everyone! big day coming and quickly.
Just wanted to give a quick update as I went and had the ring appraised by a local GIA graduate gemologist as there seemed to be some concern regarding the Gemologic appraisal card that B2C includes with their diamonds/diamond rings.
Well, $100 later and I can say that it's probably not an issue! The Gemologic appraised value for the diamond and ring was $10k even. My local jeweler (without knowing what I paid or what the Gemologic card stated) appraised it at just under $11k! and she even estimated the halo and pave diamonds to be G-H color SI1 as opposed to B2C's stated I SI2 rating.
Very happy about this, and if anything feel like I wasted a bill to have this verified but it is what it is. Just thought others should know
Just wanted to give a quick update as I went and had the ring appraised by a local GIA graduate gemologist as there seemed to be some concern regarding the Gemologic appraisal card that B2C includes with their diamonds/diamond rings.
Well, $100 later and I can say that it's probably not an issue! The Gemologic appraised value for the diamond and ring was $10k even. My local jeweler (without knowing what I paid or what the Gemologic card stated) appraised it at just under $11k! and she even estimated the halo and pave diamonds to be G-H color SI1 as opposed to B2C's stated I SI2 rating.
Very happy about this, and if anything feel like I wasted a bill to have this verified but it is what it is. Just thought others should know
Gypsy
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Gypsy
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Here are tips on finding a good appraiser, from one of the best appraisers in the US: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/should-i-replace-the-original-hrd-cert.203548/#post-3706449#p3706449']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/should-i-replace-the-original-hrd-cert.203548/#post-3706449#p3706449[/URL]
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While it is true that the value today is what was paid for it that may not be true next week.Gypsy|1406092292|3718842 said:
I like to insure at cost + 30% and keep an eye on prices every year.
I would talk to the appraiser about the value conclusion if it was above cost+30% if it was me. I didn't see the total price mentioned here to see how much higher the appraisal was than purchase price but maybe I missed it.
It is a good sign that 2 people did not find any issues.
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I would agree with both these views in that you don't want to pay a premium on inflated valuation. But there is something to be said for having a reasonable cushion against rising prices. Also there is the concept of fair market value which is usually defined by a standard that implies that in order to get whole the insured should be able to go to the most convenient local market and purchase a replacement of like kind and quality off the shelf without shopping for the best price or negotiating. There is often a fairly significant delta between pricing between many online businesses and brick and mortar. So it's good to have accurate valuation for normal retail.Karl_K|1406134218|3719147 said:
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Gypsy
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starryeyed
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sh00termcgav1n
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Appreciate the feedback, but at this point I'm not going to shell out another $100 for a "better" appraisal. At the end of the day, I'm talking $10/yr max in diff for insurance premium bc of this inflated appraisal (so it'd take 10 yrs of insurance just for me to get that amt back). Fact of the matter is my ring isn't tens of thousands of $ or more so relatively speaking, I'm ok with it, and would rather be covered with a nice comfy cushion in case something does happen, as I'd likely replace locally than go through B2C or another internet vendor.
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