BM/Friend Frustrations .. Need Advice.

[areagirlsbestfriend]

I''m trying to avoid being a Bridezilla here at all costs. So please feel free to put me in my place if you think I''m being overly sensitive or selfish.

A brief background on the situation (attempted brief, anyway, I can be long-winded!):
One of my best friends (I used to consider her "the" best friend, but in the past year or so she''s fallen down the friend totem pole due to her attitudes/comments/general personality change. I still consider her one of my best friends, just not the "only" one) is going to be one of my bridesmaids in my December ''08 wedding. We''ve been friends since elementary school and have remained close througout the years. In general, throughout our 15+ year friendship, she''s been a great friend. It''s been only recently that I''ve noticed a competitiveness in our friendship ... maybe it''s always been there and I''ve just been too naive to notice it. Regardless, it''s really come to surface now that we are at the stage of getting engaged and married.

I''ll backtrack to when I first got together with the man who is now my fiance (I''m a has-been lurker and first-time poster .. is it FI?). This was over 2 years ago .. we had been very good friends for a long time before deciding to become a couple. It was very evident when we decided to cross the line of friendship that this most likely could be "it". Not wanting to jump the gun, I tried not to get swept up in the honeymoon phase of the relationship and gush about getting married, like I had seen so many others do. But about three months into the relationship, my now-fiance started talking about getting engaged. I was excited and scared. I didn''t want to rush things, but deep in my heart I "knew" this was the man who would be my husband. We started seriously talking about the possibility of getting married (not in the immediate future, but within the next few years). I didn''t really talk about it with anyone else because I was afraid on some levels that people would think we were crazy. I did, however, talk about it with my best friend (who I shall call "L"). At the time, L was in a long term relationship that seemed to be going nowhere .. despite the fact that she would go back and forth every day about how she wanted to marry this man. At the time, I think she just wanted to get married. In any event, whenever I would talk to her about the conversations my now-fiance (who I shall call "J") had about marriage/our relationship, etc. she acted disinterested. Actually, I think she acted jealous but tried to cover that up with disinterest/indifference. She would say things like "you guys JUST started dating. Me and --- have been together much longer and we''re not even at that stage yet." Whenever J gave me a nice piece of jewelry for an occassion, instead of a polite comment she would say things like "What? I''ve been with --- so much longer and I haven''t even gotten jewelry from him." Regardless, she ended up ending the relationship shortly after (it was a mutual break up) and at that point, if I ever even mentioned the fact that J and I were talking about marriage (which wasn''t often because I was afraid of her responses) she would be down right snippy. Finally, she said "I''m nowhere near the stage you are at in terms of finding the guy I want to marry. You have to understand that I can''t be happy for you right now."

Fine. I took it all in stride and tried to keep in perspective that she was going through a rough time post-breakup and that hearing about my relationship bliss was probably very annoying. I kept a lid on it around her. Fast forward a few months and she gets into a relationship with a new guy, who we will call "M". L immediately started talking about how he was "the one" and that they wanted to get married. Awesome - M is a great guy and I really think he is right for L. But it''s been very hard for me to be happy for her because she could not be happy for me. Unlike her, I''ve been excited and happy througout the progression of her relationship and her constant babbling about engagement rings and wedding plans. Keep in mind, this was going on while I was still un-engaged (J was saving up for my ring) so we were going through many of the same LIW feelings ... which is exciting, but as many of you ladies know, can be terribly frustrating. Especially because I started to feel like it was becoming a competition .. who would get their ring first, mostly. I knew mine was coming in the near future, but I wanted it to be surprise, so I kept out of the planning process entirely. I told J a few settings I thought were nice, but left it up to him. Meanwhile, L was going ring shopping with M to every jewelry store in the state (slight exaggeration) and reporting back every day their findings, her preferences, etc. I love to talk diamonds as much as the next gal (well, PS gal, it seems!) but it started to irk me. First, she couldn''t be happy for me until she found her own future husband, and now it was practically a race to see who would get a ring first!

I did end up getting my ring first (she still does not have hers but I suspect it will be coming in the near future) and it was worth all of the frustration! I know she''s slightly jealous of my ring .. it''s basically her ideal stone and quite frankly, M can''t afford one like it. J has family friends in the jewelry business so he was able to get a lot of bang for his buck (and part of the reason I didn''t care to be involved in the planning process .. I knew they would take care of him and get him a good diamond).

So now here is where the majority of my frustration comes in .. I am in the process of planning my wedding and have asked L to be one of my 4 bridesmaids. I don''t regret that - she is one of my oldest and dearest friends, even if she does have a way of getting under my skin every other day regarding wedding things. I don''t know why I feel the need to be so competitive with her and I know it''s not healthy. I wish I could stop myself from feeling this way, but I can''t! I think what annoys me the most is that she does not even have a ring yet (although she will probably have one soon-ish) and she''s already planning hers. Whenever I bring up stuff about my wedding to her, instead of giving me feedback she says "well for MY wedding, I want this .. " For example, yesterday I told her about a caterer that I was going to meet with .. they have a great reputation and are my first choice. She said "Well if I can''t get XYZ catering for my reception, these people are definitely going to be a good back up for me." ???? Why was it necessary to bring up the fact that she would want to use my first choice caterer as her back up? Not even that I was offended that my "first choice" wasn''t good enough for her, but just the fact that she had to bring the conversation back to her not-yet-happening wedding! I don''t even know what to say without being completely rude. I want to just say: "When you actually get engaged and start booking vendors, I will be more than happy to talk about your wedding stuff with you. But I''m asking you for input on MY wedding - you know, the one that''s already happening?"

I know, it''s petty. And I understand that she''s excited to be engaged soon and to start planning her own wedding. I want to be happy and supportive and helpful to her during her own planning process, but I''m finding it harder and harder to comprehend doing so. Like I said before, whenever I talk about plans for my wedding/reception, she turns the conversation back to what she will eventually want/decide/choose. AND SHE DOESN''T HAVE A RING YET. (God help me when she does)

Help.

 

[oobiecoo]

I''m so sorry you are going through this. I''m in a slightly similar situation... my best friend does not seem to be happy for me and my upcoming wedding at all and its because she is unhappy with the position she is in right now. She is also not dating anyone and hasn''t had a serious relationship in a few years. A few of our friends (including myself) are getting maried in the next year and she is starting to feel the pressure I think. I try not to talk about the wedding or my fiance too much, but when I do... she just makes a short comment and changes the subject. I''ve tried talking to my friend about why she doesn''t seem happy for me and she just says that she is happy for me. the end.
If I were you, I''d just stop talking about the wedding to her and just be really nice when she talks about her own wedding. Be the better person. I really don''t think there is much you can do about it... just wait until the weddings pass and see what kind of friends you still are.

 

[Independent Gal]

Well, it might have been good to take a different turn a few turns back, when your friend was still in her last relationsip and you chose HER to talk to about your excitement: if you know your friend really wants to get married and is having trouble in her relationship, she is probably the LAST person you should discuss / flaunt your excitement and happiness in front of. Not that she shouldn't be a good sport if you do, just that you should be polite and not force her to be a good sport.

One of my BM's is having serious troubles in her marriage, and thinks it might be over. So, I simply don't talk to her about wedding plans at all. Why should I rub it in her face? She often asks about it, but I know she's just trying to be a good friend, so I brush it aside and we talk about other things, especially things that will make her feel supported.

You're seemingly enjoying that you're going first, that YOU have HER dream ring which she won't get, etc. So, you seriously have to quit it if you want to keep this friendship. You are feeding it just as much as she is, and part of her behaviour is in reaction to yours.

But now that you're where you are, namely, in 'competition land', (which it seems clear you've fed juuuust as much as she has) I think you both owe it to each other to call a TIME OUT, sit down, and lay down some ground rules. The competition will stop when you call a stop to it. That means BOTH of you. You're both excited, and you both want to talk about your weddings (hers IS coming, as you say, even if she doesn't have a ring yet). My best friend / MOH is about to get engaged, and I enjoy talking with her about her wedding ideas as much as about mine, because I love her as much as I love myself (if not more), so her excitement and happiness mean as much to me as my own! That's a true friendship. It doesn't have to be a competition.

So, yeah, you asked us to call you on it, so I'm calling you on it. You are BOTH BEING CHILDISH! Put your friendship first, sit down, say 'here's what's bugging me, how do we fix it?' ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY for your part in it, so she knows you don't think it's all her fault, and then move on.

Moving on means not talking about your wedding with her so much or at all, or listening to her ideas and sharing HER excitement just like you want her to share yours.

Isn't your friendship worth it?

 

[areagirlsbestfriend]

IDGal - you''re probably right, the only way to end it is to just stop talking about the wedding(s) cold turkey. It doesn''t help that we chat most days while at work (on the internet) and the topic ALWAYS seems to come up whether it''s me or her bringing it up.

I guess what bothers me the most about the whole situation is that when she was dating the first guy, I was there for her more than I ever had been. I can''t even count the number of hours I would spend counseling her about the situation. I knew she wanted to be with this man more than anything so I tried to help in ways that would allow her to save the relationship. I finally stopped doing so when it became apparent that she needed to be told the guy was bad news and to get out, if only to save her sanity. The fact that I spent hours listening to her about her relationship stuff, she couldn''t bother to listen to mine or share in my happiness when I found The One.

You''re also right, I do enjoy the fact that my ring will probably be nicer than hers. This also stems back years when she made the comment (after observing the female competitiveness in general) that she didn''t feel competitive with me about anything .... "except our future engagement rings." ------> what? Who says that? I think that was definitely the turning point in our relationship when I felt the competitive current lift.

Thanks for the input ladies. I look forward to hearing more.

 

[surfgirl]

well, I'm knackered just reading about that! Phew. I gotta sit down for a minute and rest my bum... Okay, so I have to agree with IG, as you've admitted, you've fed this situation just as much as she has. Honestly, I dont know why you feel like it has to be a competition and I'm also baffled as to why, after all this, you still want her in your wedding as she doesn't seem like she's been a good friend. I hope I dont read a "Help, I dont want my BM in my wedding!" post from you now...! That said, I do have to pause and give you props for admitting what's going on, and your role in it. It takes a person of integrity and self awareness to admit when they've been acting in less than attractive ways, so good for you for seeing what you're contributing to this. That said, I agree, you have to have a heart to heart with this "friend" and let it all out. I think she should know how hurt you were when she wouldn't be supportive and excited for you. Saying "I cant be happy for you" is just childish, petty and quite frankly, LAME! But, if you really want her in your wedding - and here's where you really need to think and act NOW - you need to be honest with her. I mean, I wouldn't want someone in MY wedding who was acting like she was. Why do you? I'd sort this all out now, before it goes a minute further. And if you DO decide you want her in your wedding, take a lesson from some of the other recent posters here and STOP TELLING HER the details of your wedding! Dont add fuel to the fire if you dont want her to compete with you. If she doesn't know what you're doing with your wedding, then she cannot compete with you. Find another confidante to share your wedding details with. Preferably someone who's older, wiser, and has no interest in having another wedding any time soon! Good luck.

 

[Pandora II]

I have a hideously competitive aunt. She and my grandmother are desperate to know the details of my wedding as aunt''s son is getting married 2 months before me.

In the past, I would have gone all out on a war to win extra points and stressed myself out completely. This time I''ve decided that even if my aunt deserves complete disaster, my cousin''s future wife has the mother-in-law from hell to contend with and so desrves the most perfect wedding day she can possibly have.

In order to avoid any competitiveness I have refused to discuss my wedding with anyone except my mother, FMIL and FI - and even they don''t know all the details.

I have discovered that it is terribly easy to be very vague about everything with people - and if I want discussion and input, the PS is the perfect place, where everyone is happy and enthusiastic about their own and other people''s plans and ideas and offer honest advice - and the possibility to nab the odd idea (not a problem when you probably live in another country/state/town etc and no-one will compare.)

I would justfind other things to talk about - you risk ending up on a nasty roundabout: who gets preggo first, whose kids talks/walks first... gets never ending.

You need to break the cycle now - trust me, it can be done (I managed to

) and YOU will feel so much happier I promise.

The competitive ring thing is such a bad one to get into. It''s so not about who''s rock is bigger, better etc and I''m sure both your FI''s would be upset to know that their gifts were looked at in this light. Not getting at you in particular here - more a general statement - and it''s obvious from your post that you know this, even if she doesn''t.

 

[cara]

You are stuck in a very childish cycle with this childish friend. Yes I see how an eminently reasonable person might end up there when confronted with a good friend who is insecure at her heart, is judging her worth as a person based on milestones of life and trappings of domesticity, and who was unable to bury her disappointment and be happy for you as a good friend should. Even if she couldn''t muster actual happiness, adults are supposed to fake it in that situation.

You are not being a bridezilla, but for your own good as a person, see if there is any way to break out of this cycle. Start with taking her at face value that she is engaged to be married but lacking a ring - if that is an accurate description of the situation. See if you can muster some excitement for her ring or her wedding plans in your heart. You like the guy, right? You like her as a person and friend? Have you discussed pricescope with her? OK, probably not since you are posting this but what about diamonds and cut?

Or, if talking wedding and rings is too much, and it may well be - how about talking over the heart of the matter with this "good" friend? That you were hurt long ago when she couldn''t be happy for your relationship when hers was faltering, and now you feel trapped in these STUPID feelings of competition.

Cause these are really the height of stupid feelings and childishness. It does you no favors to indulge them.

But if your relationship with her just isn''t up to engaging the issue headon, or you fear that she as a person isn''t really up to addressing the issue, then I echo the others to just back away from all wedding talk and do your best to ignore/misdirect/question any snide comments that come your way.

 

[iheartscience]

First of all, props to you for realizing what''s going on and wanting to change it. My best advice would be to just sit down and talk to her about the competition you guys seem to be in. Tell her you don''t like it and you want to stop it right now.

I had a roommate/coworker who was VERY competitive with me regarding everything I bought (she would run out and buy exactly the same thing I just bought) and it just got to be ridiculous. So I called her out on it and it felt really good just to have it out in the open. She totally realized what she was doing and she even made a few self-deprecating jokes about it eventually.

Since you guys have been friends for 15 years and you''re mature enough to realize what''s going on, I think you can work through this. And if you can''t, I would advise not having her in your wedding...why have a "frenemy" in your wedding? It could get very middle school very quickly! Yikes.

 

[mimzy]

I think that if you really love her then you should stop focusing on how she has wronged you. Should she have sucked it up before and pretended to be happy for you? maybe. but true friends are supposed to be honest with you, and a friend in return should appreciate that. i'm sure there was a better way that she could have told you it bothered her before, but think of the incredible distance that would have grown between you to for reasons totally unknown to you if she hadn't. you really need to do your best to be compassionate (even if you think she doesn't deserve it) and forgive her for that, because it sort of sounds like you are using that as justification for your current actions.

I totally agree with the others that you need to talk to her. whatever you do, make sure you don't come across as having the attitude that YOU'RE the one engaged, not her and that there shouldn't be competition because she is no competition to you anyways. not that you would intentionally, but words can be strung together in careless ways sometimes. don't put the blame on her, telling her that she "needs to stop". it is obvious that she feels the need to compensate for her lack of an official engagement with self assuring talk, and i think the best thing that you can do for your friendship is indulge her a little bit. trust me, it is NOT EASY to be the only one without a ring, especially when you think that you ultimately are already engaged. her viewpoint may be faulty, but we are only human. just take a look through the LIW forum - the vast majority of us have dealt with jealousy issues. her feelings are understandable, even if they aren't totally kosher.

it's easy to get snotty about coming out on top when someone else began the whole thing by trying to pull you down in the first place. have you ever voluntarily asked her own plans for something? maybe in a "hey, i'm not sure what to do for this, what were you thinking of doing?" type of way. It sounds like she just wants everyone, but mostly you, to acknowledge that she is *engaged* as well. chances are she would pull a lot fewer "hey look at me"s if you shone the spotlight on her voluntarily once in awhile. you are very very very fortunate in both your relationship and engagement, and for her one or the other has been less than picture perfect. it's obviously been a hard pill to swallow for her, and, right or wrong, she feels inferior because you are the one planning a wedding, and she isn't. it doesn't take a genius to figure out that she is insecure: all that talk about her first choice/second choice caterers is code for "you may be first, but mine will be better", assuring herself that she won't come in second place for everything. it might not be easy, but i would love on her as much as i could, knowing that she is struggling with the whole situation. i think that's what's referred to around here as the "big girl pants", no?

if a list of ways she has wronged or annoyed you is enough to make you write off her friendship, that is pretty sad, and a little selfish. a lot of people on here will give the "forget about her" advice, but that is usually regarding a college roommate or something inconsequential. you'll regret it if you don't clear it up. don't let this get in the way of your friendship. be as sincere as you can in letting her know that you don't like the dynamics/tension that you guys have going on. it's great to have someone that you can gush about details with, and it sounds like you guys still have a lot of potential. just find a way to get to a place where you can do it together, not against each other. think "partners in crime", not "cops and robbers".


my tagline needs to be changed so that i just automatically apologize for writing so much crap.

 

[Independent Gal]

Confession: Did anyone else read OP''s screen name as "area girl''s best friend". DUH! this is a diamond website, but it took me a minute.

 

[ladyciel]

hehe IG! Last night I did the exact same thing - came back just now and went DOH!! Started reading through the new posts on this thread and came to yours. I cracked up.

 

[ladyciel]

AAGBF (hope you don''t mind if I abbreviate!), I agree with everyone else that at the very least you need to break the cycle by simply diverting the subject whenever weddings, rings, etc come up. You''re the best judge here of whether your friend can handle a serious heart to heart about this competitiveness. I haven''t been in the exact same situation as you, but something with similar undertones, and I''ve found the best thing to do is just not discuss the wedding at all with her.

 

[ljmorgan]

I have to just say that you are incredibly mature and insightful. You have a clear picture of what is going on under the surface, and you are brutally honest about it, admitting that you can feel that competitiveness.

I can''t really offer advice like the others, because an issue extremely close to yours actually ended my good friendship, which is unfortunate. But I can identify in your story my own story, and I think many other women go through this. I think women going through engagement and marriage really brings out the fears in their friends about their own lives, relationships, just where their life is going. It could also be hard to watch your friends get the one thing that you have dreamed of and desperately want.

I will say that not ALL friends are like this. I had a good friend who was so supportive of my engagement and genuinely excited about my husband and the process of me getting married. I don''t think that the people who respond negatively are necessarily terrible friends, but they may not be the healthiest friends and might be dealing with feelings of inadequacy.

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 10/27/2007 8:48:04 AM
Author: Independent Gal
Confession: Did anyone else read OP''s screen name as ''area girl''s best friend''. DUH! this is a diamond website, but it took me a minute.

Yep!! I still was up until about a minute ago when I read your post. I had to go back to study the name more. I get it now ..."are a girl''s best friend" makes WAY more sense than "area girl''s best friend."

 

[areagirlsbestfriend]

Truly, thank you to all who commented. I came here for an unbiased third opinion and I got it! I''d been discussing with other friends (who are aquaintances with L but obviously have loyalty to me) and I wanted to make sure I was looking at all sides.

I think that for now I am just going to STOP talking about everything wedding/engagement ring related. If she brings it up, I will answer as limitedly as I can. Obviously when she actually gets engaged, I want to be a good friend about it and be excited for her. To prepare myself for that, I need to just stop talking about it with her.

I also think (after reading many of your comments) that this friendship is not the healthiest one I have and, in many ways, is toxic. I need to remind myself of that and stop justifying the longevity of the relationship as reason to confide in her with topics that I know she is just going to compete with me on. It''s really unfortunate, but when I think of other female relationships I have, it''s just not the same. Not to try and build myself up here, but I think she is the one with the competitive issues and I just feed off of them. One of my closest friends just went through a wedding a few weeks ago and I was in it and very involved. Throughout the entire process I was just so genuinely excited for her and so happy and honored that she included me. I did not feel a trace of competitiveness. When I compare that to my relationship with L, the differences are striking. Obviously we''ve had a long friendship and I think maybe it''s just been a cultivation of instances and experiences in the past that have brought us to where we are today. Her feelings of inadequacies are definitely a large part of the equation ... and while it''s unfortunate, I can''t really help that she feels that way about herself and then in comparison to others around her.

That being said, I think I do still want her to stand up with me on my wedding day. It wasn''t a question of whether or not to have her, it was more of how to cope with all of the pre-wedding feelings. I think IDGal (I think it was her anyway) made a good point - see how the friendship holds up AFTER the weddings are over. That will be the true test, I believe. It''s just sad .... I guess in some ways I wish I knew how to make myself NOT feel this way towards her. Not talking about the weddings or engagements will probably help, but what if it doesn''t? I feel the competitiveness in other areas too, sometimes .... jobs, money, material things, etc. etc. Does this mean I should cut off the friendship completely?

I am curious to hear of other PS''ers with similar situations .. maybe not similar but just about competitive relationships. It really baffles me why I feel this way towards her but not towards other females. I''d appreciate the continued insight.

Thanks again for taking the time to read/respond, you all are great.

 

[Independent Gal]

Hmmm... well, this friendship might be on its way out, then. Which is sad! But it happens. Don''t give up on it quite yet though. Do you have a reason why you don''t want to confront the issue with her square on and just talk it through? A "what are we doing here?" talk? It might not work, but it might radically change your friendship for the better. Sometimes calling a bean a bean is all you need to do to move on to other things.

As for your question about other peoples'' experiences, I tend to completely shy away from people who are competitive. I have a colleague that''s competitive, and I had a classmate who was when we were in grad school, and my response is to stay away from those people. I really don''t see what kind of HEALTHY pleasure comes from feeling superior to someone else. I mean, I totally get why it''s pleasurable, just not why it''s a healthy or productive pleasure. So I just stay away from it.

Mind you, competition has its place, e.g., if it makes you strive to excel. Like in sport. But rarely among friends, I think, and certainly not when the competition is over inherent desirability to rich mates or other things that don''t have to do with one''s own self-cultivation or self-improvement.
Ask yourself: what the ''I have your dream e-ring and you DON''T'' thing actually about? I mean, you didn''t EARN the ring, you didn''t DESERVE the ring, and she didn''t NOT do those things, so why does it score YOU points that you got it and she didn''t? Unless it''s about comparative sexual power / desirability, so to speak. Think about whether you''re actually comfortable with that - with ''trophy ring'' ideas with respect to your relationship. I guess you could call them that. What is it the ring is symbolising to you that makes you feel superior to her?

Different strokes for different folks! But it might help you, in trying to sort this out in your head, if you think really carefully about your own motives, etc.

Just cause she''s being childish, doesn''t mean you should be too. Doesn''t mean you should stay friends with her either, in the long run!

 

[areagirlsbestfriend]

The ring is the thing -- actually it''s NOT the thing, but it has become sort of an issue in our relationship so I guess I should acknowledge it.

To abbreviate, we''ve both always been diamond lovers. To the extent where we''d go into jewelry stores together and dream about our future engagement rings. I''ve never been one to want a huge diamond or a flashy ring to one-up anyone - I come from a pretty humble background and parents who made enough to support us, but not much extra.

I never thought of it as a competition until she made the comment one day (long time ago, but I remember it distinctly) that she felt competitive with me over who''s ring would be nicer. It never sat well with me and I should have said something then. Maybe I wouldn''t be where I am today if I had.

The competition upped greatly when it appeared that we were both on the verge of becoming engaged ... I think what got me riled up about that was the fact that she was basically the pot calling the kettle black ... when I talked about getting married so soon into the relationship, it was "ridiculous" ... yet when it was her talking about getting married to M (one month into things, mind you) suddenly she had terrible amnesia.

I was bowled over when I received my ring. Because I was not involved in the planning process and gave little input other than the setting, I never gave specifications for the stone itself. The ring my fiance ultimately gave me is unbelievable. I get many, many compliments on it and in some ways I''ve become quite proud of it. Which you can take for what it''s worth ... I know that above all else, it''s a symbol from J that he wants me to be his wife and I love him for spending so much time planning and saving for a ring I only ever dreamed about, but now sits on my hand in real life.

SHE makes the ring the issue .. she comments on it frequently, and I know she''d love it for herself. This doesn''t make me feel good .... until I feel the competitive currents rise in a conversation. Even then, the feeling is fleeting - the ring is not supposed to make me feel superior. It''s to remind me of the promise from J and our life together.

Regardless, I''m not placing blame on her solely. But what I am contemplating is WHY I feel the way I do about it towards her? I don''t feel good about my ring around others who''s stones are not a large or lovely. I usually feel like somewhat of a snob and try to take attention away from it. Even though I know I shouldn''t. It''s a weird situation, I guess.