Conned on ebay. I quit!

[Addnamehere]

Please read the Ebay TOS. Every buyer on ebay agrees to them, and they surpass any TOS us sellers have. In the Ebay TOS, refunds are given apon return of the item, in ORIGIONAL condition. It is the buyers responsibility to read these terms when signing up for ebay.

My website says "Returns are accepted in origional unaltered condition".

Try and call any jewelry store or retail outlet and request a refund without the seller inspecting the item in hand. They will say no, laugh at you or hang up. I guarantee you none will agree. To expect different from an online seller is completely unreasonable.

 

[T L]

RH,
Kelpie has not seen the damage to the stone, except perhaps in photos. She probably feels she is entitled to a full refund, so I can see why she's not budging, especially in light of the fact it isn't a copper bearing stone.

However, that being said, I cannot see why you wouldn't refund something after she files the claim. If hypothetically, she did file the claim, and you did run off with the claim money and at the same time, didn't refund her at all, she would report it here on PS, and everyone would really be after your throat a million times worse than now. I suspect it's not worth that much grief, and that is why I still believe you have good intentions. I guess I am someone who likes to see the good in people and give the benefit of the doubt, and this is coming from a person who has been scammed by sellers in the past. The internet makes it more difficult for people to get away with this because their id's can be traced more easily, and PS'er would be up in arms about it not just here, but all over the net. All the added grief is simply not worth the refund and claim money.

Again, I do hope you two can try to trust each other again, and work out a resolution. I really do.

 

[y2kitty]

It just seems like if your intentions were good, you would have refunded her the moment she found out the stone was not a Paraiba and not even waited till it was delivered to you. The original contract to purchase was nullified by the AGL report.

 

[ededdeddy]

Because when she said she was unhappy with the stone, I had absolutely no knowlege the stone would be delivered to me damaged. If the stone not come back to me damaged she would absolutely have received a refund. Just because the stone was not what she expected, doesnt mean it did not have significant value for me to resell or keep. But being damaged, that value is gone. Either AGL or USPS needs to be held accountable for that damage due to poor packaging.

I have offered her a partial refund and refund of AGL fees along with reciepts of what I paid for the stone, and she can file a claim without my input or participation on her own, but seller the buyer refused. There is nothing more I can or am willing to do.

Like the anology I said before, if you buy a TV that was supposed to be red at a store, get it home and it is blue, then drop it on the way back to the store to be returned and it shatters, the seller will not accept it back regardless of the origional complaint. I cannot stress that enough, online sales are no different then BM stores. In fact, offering the buyer a partial refund is above and beyond what any retail outlet would have done apon receiving a damaged return.

This is all a rehash of what was said before.

She was unhappy with the stone because it turned out not to be what YOU said it was. It has nothing to do with what SHE expected, it has to do with what YOU represented it to be. Once it came back not what you stated it was, she choose not to purchase it, which is what YOU agreed to. You also agreed to have it sent to the lab to verify the stone's orgin. Again, you also didn't document the poor packaging that it came in when the stone came back to you from the lab.

Interestingly, I have yet to read where you contacted the lab to discuss this issue. Your analogy is off because the stone wasn't damaged by the OP as the TV was in the analogy it was damaged either by the lab or in transit from the lab which you agreed to have the stone sent to in order to complete the sale.

A more accurate analogy using your scenario would be buyer buys blue TV thinking it's red. Buyer takes back TV and at the front of the store the clerk that is putting the return sticker on the TV drops and damages it. Buyer would still get the refund.

 

[Addnamehere]

RH,
Kelpie has not seen the damage to the stone, except perhaps in photos. She probably feels she is entitled to a full refund, so I can see why she's not budging.

However, that being said, I cannot see why you wouldn't refund something after she files the claim. If hypothetically, she did file the claim, and you did run off with the claim money and at the same time, didn't refund her at all, she would report it here on PS, and everyone would really be after your throat a million times worse than now. I suspect it's not worth that much grief, and that is why I still believe you have good intentions. I guess I am someone who likes to see the good in people and give the benefit of the doubt, and this is coming from a person who has been scammed by sellers in the past. The internet makes it more difficult for people to get away with this because their id's can be traced more easily, and PS'er would be up in arms about it not just here, but all over the net.

Again, I do hope you two can try to trust each other again, and work out a resolution. I really do.

TL, I actually offered her a partial refund of the stone AND AGL fees *before* she files the claim, and I have been refused. She wants all or nothing.

As far as the claim goes, becasue she is considered the shipper, the money would never touch my hands, so any risk of me 'running off' with the claim money is non existant. I am just offering to help her with the proof of damage and value aspect.

 

[Addnamehere]

It just seems like if your intentions were good, you would have refunded her the moment she found out the stone was not a Paraiba and not even waited till it was delivered to you. The original contract to purchase was nullified by the AGL report.

Call any jewelry store or retail store and ask what they would do in that situation, and if they would return the money sight unseen, with nothing returned. I already know what the answer would be, but because you seem to think that is accepted, I urge you to call.

 

[T L]

RH,
Kelpie has not seen the damage to the stone, except perhaps in photos. She probably feels she is entitled to a full refund, so I can see why she's not budging.

However, that being said, I cannot see why you wouldn't refund something after she files the claim. If hypothetically, she did file the claim, and you did run off with the claim money and at the same time, didn't refund her at all, she would report it here on PS, and everyone would really be after your throat a million times worse than now. I suspect it's not worth that much grief, and that is why I still believe you have good intentions. I guess I am someone who likes to see the good in people and give the benefit of the doubt, and this is coming from a person who has been scammed by sellers in the past. The internet makes it more difficult for people to get away with this because their id's can be traced more easily, and PS'er would be up in arms about it not just here, but all over the net.

Again, I do hope you two can try to trust each other again, and work out a resolution. I really do.

TL, I actually offered her a partial refund of the stone AND AGL fees *before* she files the claim, and I have been refused. She wants all or nothing.

As far as the claim goes, becasue she is considered the shipper, the money would never touch my hands, so any risk of me 'running off' with the claim money is non existant. I am just offering to help her with the proof of damage and value aspect.

Oh yes, that's right, the money would go to her first. Thanks for explaining, sorry about that. Would she file the claim if you gave her a full refund? I'm not saying that you should or should not do that, but I'm just curious.

 

[LD]

Please read the Ebay TOS. Every buyer on ebay agrees to them, and they surpass any TOS us sellers have. In the Ebay TOS, refunds are given apon return of the item, in ORIGIONAL condition. It is the buyers responsibility to read these terms when signing up for ebay.

My website says "Returns are accepted in origional unaltered condition".

Try and call any jewelry store or retail outlet and request a refund without the seller inspecting the item in hand. They will say no, laugh at you or hang up. I guarantee you none will agree.

This is a BLATENT attempt to try to renege on your responsibilities.

It doesn't maatter how many people are telling you YOU are wrong, you continue to spout nonsense. You're not EVER going to convince anybody with weak arguments that lack substance.

The thing is RH - you're not fooling anybody. You have NO intention of refunding Kelpie the original purchase price.

I hope this thread appears in any/all google searches for Rockhugger, Rock Hugger, Kate Klein, Gemsrock2010 for many years to come to act as a warning that if buying from this person, refunds will not be forthcoming.

 

[Pandora II]

Mix up with Ebay messages not being delivered?

Ebay has a feature where you can check to see if a message that you sent went through, it's called the sent messages folder, if they were actually sent and went through they would be there.

You can also CC yourself a sent message so you can confirm that it went through. With an amount this large I would think that you would have done this.

Why should the OP accept your everchanging terms for a refund? At this point, you have proved yourself to be untrustworthy and keep changing the terms to suit yourself. Sorry but at that point I too would take my ball and go.

I looked at the link to this auction, you don't have the terms and conditions of returns outlined in your auction. Not a thing about damage yet this appears:

**I am a GIA Gemologist, and direct importer of fine and rare gemstones. All stones I sell have been examined and tested with multiple gemological tools, and I guarantee 150% the accurate description and authenticity of everything I sell! If I cannot guarantee it 150%, I will not sell it!!!!***

Every gem seller I have dealt with clearly outlines the terms and conditions of any kind of returns including timeframes. You haven't. However you are on record as agreeing to refund the OP after the lab report stated that the gem wasn't what you had stated. You are also on record as saying that the damage was NOT CAUSED BY THE OP. You are also on record as agreeing to the terms of the sale as far as getting the gemstone certified by the lab in question as part of the completion of the sale. Not a word about whether or not the lab or the postal carrier damages the stone.

As has been stated many times in this thread, what you should have done was REFUND the OP her money right away and then pursued the claim to get the $$$ back on the stone. I remember years ago when a poster named Mary Alaina bought an expensive ring from Diamonds By Lauren and the ring was shipped to her and lost/stolen. DBL refunded her $$$ IMMEDIATELY and pursued the claim with the shipping company. That's what good, moral, smart, honest, and decent business owners do. They don't make the seller jump through red tape, they don't change their terms over and over again, and they do the best they can to resolve the situation quickly and amicably. You had a number of chances to do that, but didn't.

There is a big difference there though - in that case, DBL were the sender and therefore had taken out insurance on the package. Since it was lost/stolen then they could file the claim.

Here, although AGL actually put the stone in the post, they were acting on behalf of Kelpie who was the sender. It is therefore down to Kelpie to file the insurance claim. RH cannot do so as she was not the sender.

At this point, I think that Kelpie is nuts if she is refusing to file the claim with the post office and is not helping herself or the situation. It is not down to her to decide the value or otherwise of the stone - that is down to the post office insurance department. If RH also has a receipt to show what she paid then I can't see what Kelpie thinks she is laying herself open to by filing...

 

[y2kitty]

It just seems like if your intentions were good, you would have refunded her the moment she found out the stone was not a Paraiba and not even waited till it was delivered to you. The original contract to purchase was nullified by the AGL report.

Call any jewelry store or retail store and ask what they would do in that situation, and if they would return the money sight unseen, with nothing returned. I already know what the answer would be, but because you seem to think that is accepted, I urge you to call.

I don't know RH. I want to believe your intentions are good but you come back to PS and post under a new name......take your website offline....remove your facebook page...say you are receiving death threats (over $850????)....Your behavior is just very suspicious.

 

[ededdeddy]

Please read the Ebay TOS. Every buyer on ebay agrees to them, and they surpass any TOS us sellers have. In the Ebay TOS, refunds are given apon return of the item, in ORIGIONAL condition. It is the buyers responsibility to read these terms when signing up for ebay.

My website says "Returns are accepted in origional unaltered condition".

Try and call any jewelry store or retail outlet and request a refund without the seller inspecting the item in hand. They will say no, laugh at you or hang up. I guarantee you none will agree. To expect different from an online seller is completely unreasonable.

You have already gone on record as saying the buyer didn't damage the stone and this was an ebay auction not a purchase directly from your website. You nullified the "terms and conditions" by agreeing to have it sent to a lab and agreeing that the final sale of the stone would be on the condition of what the lab says. The additional factors that were thrown in which you AGREED to greatly weaken these "terms and conditions".

 

[Addnamehere]

Because when she said she was unhappy with the stone, I had absolutely no knowlege the stone would be delivered to me damaged. If the stone not come back to me damaged she would absolutely have received a refund. Just because the stone was not what she expected, doesnt mean it did not have significant value for me to resell or keep. But being damaged, that value is gone. Either AGL or USPS needs to be held accountable for that damage due to poor packaging.

I have offered her a partial refund and refund of AGL fees along with reciepts of what I paid for the stone, and she can file a claim without my input or participation on her own, but seller the buyer refused. There is nothing more I can or am willing to do.

Like the anology I said before, if you buy a TV that was supposed to be red at a store, get it home and it is blue, then drop it on the way back to the store to be returned and it shatters, the seller will not accept it back regardless of the origional complaint. I cannot stress that enough, online sales are no different then BM stores. In fact, offering the buyer a partial refund is above and beyond what any retail outlet would have done apon receiving a damaged return.

This is all a rehash of what was said before.

She was unhappy with the stone because it turned out not to be what YOU said it was. It has nothing to do with what SHE expected, it has to do with what YOU represented it to be. Once it came back not what you stated it was, she choose not to purchase it, which is what YOU agreed to. You also agreed to have it sent to the lab to verify the stone's orgin. Again, you also didn't document the poor packaging that it came in when the stone came back to you from the lab.

Interestingly, I have yet to read where you contacted the lab to discuss this issue. Your analogy is off because the stone wasn't damaged by the OP as the TV was in the analogy it was damaged either by the lab or in transit from the lab which you agreed to have the stone sent to in order to complete the sale.

A more accurate analogy using your scenario would be buyer buys blue TV thinking it's red. Buyer takes back TV and at the front of the store the clerk that is putting the return sticker on the TV drops and damages it. Buyer would still get the refund.

wrong. I am in no way affiliated with AGL, store clerk is. Buyer is under contract with AGL (not me) and authorized them to ship the stone to me.

 

[LD]

RH,
Kelpie has not seen the damage to the stone, except perhaps in photos. She probably feels she is entitled to a full refund, so I can see why she's not budging.

However, that being said, I cannot see why you wouldn't refund something after she files the claim. If hypothetically, she did file the claim, and you did run off with the claim money and at the same time, didn't refund her at all, she would report it here on PS, and everyone would really be after your throat a million times worse than now. I suspect it's not worth that much grief, and that is why I still believe you have good intentions. I guess I am someone who likes to see the good in people and give the benefit of the doubt, and this is coming from a person who has been scammed by sellers in the past. The internet makes it more difficult for people to get away with this because their id's can be traced more easily, and PS'er would be up in arms about it not just here, but all over the net.

Again, I do hope you two can try to trust each other again, and work out a resolution. I really do.

TL, I actually offered her a partial refund of the stone AND AGL fees *before* she files the claim, and I have been refused. She wants all or nothing.

As far as the claim goes, becasue she is considered the shipper, the money would never touch my hands, so any risk of me 'running off' with the claim money is non existant. I am just offering to help her with the proof of damage and value aspect.

Oh yes, that's right, the money would go to her first. Thanks for explaining, sorry about that. Would she file the claim if you gave her a full refund? I'm not saying that you should or should not do that, but I'm just curious.

TL - Kelpie has said she would after she got a full refund (rightly so) - why should the refund be held as hostage? So I fail to see WHY RH isn't issuing a full refund. I'm guessing she thinks that Kelpie would run off with the full refund and the insurance claim money - but let's face it, the claim is so delayed now that I doubt whether it'll be paid out anyway and that's NOT Kelpie's fault.

 

[T L]

RH,
Kelpie has not seen the damage to the stone, except perhaps in photos. She probably feels she is entitled to a full refund, so I can see why she's not budging.

However, that being said, I cannot see why you wouldn't refund something after she files the claim. If hypothetically, she did file the claim, and you did run off with the claim money and at the same time, didn't refund her at all, she would report it here on PS, and everyone would really be after your throat a million times worse than now. I suspect it's not worth that much grief, and that is why I still believe you have good intentions. I guess I am someone who likes to see the good in people and give the benefit of the doubt, and this is coming from a person who has been scammed by sellers in the past. The internet makes it more difficult for people to get away with this because their id's can be traced more easily, and PS'er would be up in arms about it not just here, but all over the net.

Again, I do hope you two can try to trust each other again, and work out a resolution. I really do.

TL, I actually offered her a partial refund of the stone AND AGL fees *before* she files the claim, and I have been refused. She wants all or nothing.

As far as the claim goes, becasue she is considered the shipper, the money would never touch my hands, so any risk of me 'running off' with the claim money is non existant. I am just offering to help her with the proof of damage and value aspect.

Oh yes, that's right, the money would go to her first. Thanks for explaining, sorry about that. Would she file the claim if you gave her a full refund? I'm not saying that you should or should not do that, but I'm just curious.

TL - Kelpie has said she would after she got a full refund (rightly so) - why should the refund be held as hostage? So I fail to see WHY RH isn't issuing a full refund. I'm guessing she thinks that Kelpie would run off with the full refund and the insurance claim money - but let's face it, the claim is so delayed now that I doubt whether it'll be paid out anyway and that's NOT Kelpie's fault.

LD,
I think there's still time to file the claim. Please reference my USPS.com findings on the prior page (or two pages back).

You are corect that RH thinks Kelpie would run off with the full refund and the insurance money, as she has said this earlier in this thread. There is a very obvious lack of trust with both parties involved, and that's a major problem.

 

[Addnamehere]

It just seems like if your intentions were good, you would have refunded her the moment she found out the stone was not a Paraiba and not even waited till it was delivered to you. The original contract to purchase was nullified by the AGL report.

Call any jewelry store or retail store and ask what they would do in that situation, and if they would return the money sight unseen, with nothing returned. I already know what the answer would be, but because you seem to think that is accepted, I urge you to call.

I don't know RH. I want to believe your intentions are good but you come back to PS and post under a new name......take your website offline....remove your facebook page...say you are receiving death threats (over $850????)....Your behavior is just very suspicious.

Wrong again. My webpage is down for only another week until I am able to restock. I am not posting to pricescope under a new name. My old one is long gone and I have no idea how to reinstate it. My facebook page is NOT down, it is closed to new members because of death threats and people trying to slander me on it after 'liking' it. And the death threats by PRICESCOPE MEMBERS (Verified by my attorny) are by people with obvious issues. I agree. Death threats (or wishes for that matter) should not be made over 850 (or any amount).

This thread can go on for 100 pages. I will not refund in full receiving a damaged stone in return. I have offered kelpie a partial refund until she files the claim, but her all or nothing additude is stoping this resolution. Nothing more I can or will do.

 

[LD]

It just seems like if your intentions were good, you would have refunded her the moment she found out the stone was not a Paraiba and not even waited till it was delivered to you. The original contract to purchase was nullified by the AGL report.

Call any jewelry store or retail store and ask what they would do in that situation, and if they would return the money sight unseen, with nothing returned. I already know what the answer would be, but because you seem to think that is accepted, I urge you to call.

I don't know RH. I want to believe your intentions are good but you come back to PS and post under a new name......take your website offline....remove your facebook page...say you are receiving death threats (over $850????)....Your behavior is just very suspicious.

Wrong again. My webpage is down for only another week. I have not come back to pricescope under a new name. My facebook page is NOT down, it is closed to new members because of death threats and people trying to slander me on it after 'liking' it. And the death threats by PRICESCOPE MEMBERS (Verified by my attorny) are by people with obvious issues. I agree. Death threats (or wishes for that matter) should not be made over 850 (or any amount for that matter).

Rubbish rubbish rubbish rubbish rubbish.

You haven't got an attorney. You haven't received death threats. Nobody on Pricescope has threatened you. This is all garbage and childish.

ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY AND STOP TRYING TO BLAME EVERYBODY ELSE FOR YOUR BAD SELLING PRACTICES.

 

[ededdeddy]

It just seems like if your intentions were good, you would have refunded her the moment she found out the stone was not a Paraiba and not even waited till it was delivered to you. The original contract to purchase was nullified by the AGL report.

Call any jewelry store or retail store and ask what they would do in that situation, and if they would return the money sight unseen, with nothing returned. I already know what the answer would be, but because you seem to think that is accepted, I urge you to call.

I don't know RH. I want to believe your intentions are good but you come back to PS and post under a new name......take your website offline....remove your facebook page...say you are receiving death threats (over $850????)....Your behavior is just very suspicious.

Wrong again. My webpage is down for only another week until I am able to restock. I am not posting to pricescope under a new name. My old one is long gone and I have no idea how to reinstate it. My facebook page is NOT down, it is closed to new members because of death threats and people trying to slander me on it after 'liking' it. And the death threats by PRICESCOPE MEMBERS (Verified by my attorny) are by people with obvious issues. I agree. Death threats (or wishes for that matter) should not be made over 850 (or any amount).

This thread can go on for 100 pages. I will not refund in full receiving a damaged stone in return. I have offered kelpie a partial refund until she files the claim, but her all or nothing additude is stoping this resolution. Nothing more I can or will do.

You need an attorney to verify what is and isn't a death threat? I'm sorry but much of what was just written doesn't ring true. The mods on pricescope have been very diligent about curbing personal attacks on the forum and I have yet to see anything that would be legally considered a death threat? So how does your attorney know these so called death threats were from pricescope members. Have you filed a court asking the for the ISP information of these threats and already received the pertinent information? Have you spoken to the FBI? Have you had your phone records subpoenaed?

You last comment is a not so transparent attempt to derail the thread and possibly get it closed down. It didn't work.

 

[LD]

It just seems like if your intentions were good, you would have refunded her the moment she found out the stone was not a Paraiba and not even waited till it was delivered to you. The original contract to purchase was nullified by the AGL report.

Call any jewelry store or retail store and ask what they would do in that situation, and if they would return the money sight unseen, with nothing returned. I already know what the answer would be, but because you seem to think that is accepted, I urge you to call.

I don't know RH. I want to believe your intentions are good but you come back to PS and post under a new name......take your website offline....remove your facebook page...say you are receiving death threats (over $850????)....Your behavior is just very suspicious.

Wrong again. My webpage is down for only another week. I have not come back to pricescope under a new name. My facebook page is NOT down, it is closed to new members because of death threats and people trying to slander me on it after 'liking' it. And the death threats by PRICESCOPE MEMBERS (Verified by my attorny) are by people with obvious issues. I agree. Death threats (or wishes for that matter) should not be made over 850 (or any amount for that matter).

Rubbish rubbish rubbish rubbish rubbish.

You haven't got an attorney. You haven't received death threats. Nobody on Pricescope has threatened you. This is all garbage and childish.

ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY AND STOP TRYING TO BLAME EVERYBODY ELSE FOR YOUR BAD SELLING PRACTICES.

Really. DL, you and your assumptions and accusations. Please prove otherwise. If you cant, then I dont know what to say about that. Just because you dont like me (and havent liked me sence I posted on thisboard in the past) doesnt make your accusations any more realistic.
You can continue to grasp at straws to slander me without facts. I will continue to point out you have nothing to back yourself up.
I can say you arent one who threatened (Much to my surprise). But those involved have been identified.

I have stated facts not grasped at straws. I have not slandered you in any way. Check with your "attorney". You are the one in the wrong. ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY AND STOP TRYING TO DEFLECT BY SLAMMING OTHERS. You have shown no remorse. I don't need to slander you - this thread speaks for itself and you have clearly demonstrated how you do business.

ETA: I find it very interesting that you have added to your post that I quoted above. If PS honestly believed you, I am 100% certain that this thread would have been closed in a heartbeat. This thread has stayed open for so long because there has been no resolution. Your stance suggests to me that YOU want this thread closed because it would suit you.

 

[ededdeddy]

It just seems like if your intentions were good, you would have refunded her the moment she found out the stone was not a Paraiba and not even waited till it was delivered to you. The original contract to purchase was nullified by the AGL report.

Call any jewelry store or retail store and ask what they would do in that situation, and if they would return the money sight unseen, with nothing returned. I already know what the answer would be, but because you seem to think that is accepted, I urge you to call.

I don't know RH. I want to believe your intentions are good but you come back to PS and post under a new name......take your website offline....remove your facebook page...say you are receiving death threats (over $850????)....Your behavior is just very suspicious.

Wrong again. My webpage is down for only another week. I have not come back to pricescope under a new name. My facebook page is NOT down, it is closed to new members because of death threats and people trying to slander me on it after 'liking' it. And the death threats by PRICESCOPE MEMBERS (Verified by my attorny) are by people with obvious issues. I agree. Death threats (or wishes for that matter) should not be made over 850 (or any amount for that matter).

Rubbish rubbish rubbish rubbish rubbish.

You haven't got an attorney. You haven't received death threats. Nobody on Pricescope has threatened you. This is all garbage and childish.

ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY AND STOP TRYING TO BLAME EVERYBODY ELSE FOR YOUR BAD SELLING PRACTICES.

Really. DL, you and your assumptions and accusations. Please prove otherwise. If you cant, then I dont know what to say about that. Just because you dont like me (and havent liked me sence I posted on thisboard in the past) doesnt make your accusations any more realistic.
You can continue to grasp at straws to slander me without facts. I will continue to point out you have nothing to back what you say up.

I can say you arent one who threatened (Much to my surprise). But those involved have been identified.

1. You made the claim of death threats.

2. You made the claim of having an attorney.

3. You made the claim of slander.

Yet you don't back up any of these claims with actual facts. Loving Diamonds and others are going by the facts that were presented to them on this forum. You haven't presented anything that backs up the three points I just posted. Just another way of trying to derail this thread. If you really did have an attorney, I would bet the house that she/he would have advised you long ago to stop posting here not only for safety if indeed you were getting these "threats" but in order not to self incriminate.

I think this thread needs to stay up as it is a classic case of how not to conduct business, and the depths people will say and do in order deny any kind of responsibility.

 

[pwendyp]

I've been following this thread, and feel so sad for the OP, to be in the position of potentially losing a large chunk of money. I've no further opinions on the seller in this...it's all been said already.

I wonder though, if AGL keeps a record of who packages what up, when it's sent onwards on any journey. I think, if this were me, I would be on the phone to them, after detailing everything in an email, to try and find out WHO packed the stone before it's onward journey to the seller.

I remember being told this by a well known vendor, and well trusted one...that 'their packaging is video taped' in case of any queries. It's a long shot, but what if AGL did have their own hard copy proof of their packaging?

I truly cannot believe a prestigious company such as they, would just 'throw' a stone in a 'baggie' and then toss it in a box to rattle around in transit.

We've all bought stones, from varying sources...I know I've never had a stone sent to me in such a way. EVER. Even the lowest price pieces I have bought has been wrapped in a cotton pad, then folded into diamond paper (a triple fold of paper) then into a sealed plastic bag, and then wrapped in a piece of bubble wrap, and then into a padded envelope. And this is for the cheapies. More expensive stones I have bought, every one of them, have been in hard sided plastic gem boxes, and taped down in a secure padded/stuffed box, and then sealed in a padded envelope.

Would AGL really send a stone in such a loose and careless way???

This must be so gut wrenching to the OP...I so hope it reaches a good resolution. I fear it wont though, and the only tiny silver lining in this, is that all these pieces of information are now out there on the web, for anyone to read and make their minds up about. This however, will never guard against name changes, aliases and 'new' website/store production.

Tis an awful situation...I feel for you Kelpie.

 

[ededdeddy]

Mix up with Ebay messages not being delivered?

Ebay has a feature where you can check to see if a message that you sent went through, it's called the sent messages folder, if they were actually sent and went through they would be there.

You can also CC yourself a sent message so you can confirm that it went through. With an amount this large I would think that you would have done this.

Why should the OP accept your everchanging terms for a refund? At this point, you have proved yourself to be untrustworthy and keep changing the terms to suit yourself. Sorry but at that point I too would take my ball and go.

I looked at the link to this auction, you don't have the terms and conditions of returns outlined in your auction. Not a thing about damage yet this appears:

**I am a GIA Gemologist, and direct importer of fine and rare gemstones. All stones I sell have been examined and tested with multiple gemological tools, and I guarantee 150% the accurate description and authenticity of everything I sell! If I cannot guarantee it 150%, I will not sell it!!!!***

Every gem seller I have dealt with clearly outlines the terms and conditions of any kind of returns including timeframes. You haven't. However you are on record as agreeing to refund the OP after the lab report stated that the gem wasn't what you had stated. You are also on record as saying that the damage was NOT CAUSED BY THE OP. You are also on record as agreeing to the terms of the sale as far as getting the gemstone certified by the lab in question as part of the completion of the sale. Not a word about whether or not the lab or the postal carrier damages the stone.

As has been stated many times in this thread, what you should have done was REFUND the OP her money right away and then pursued the claim to get the $$$ back on the stone. I remember years ago when a poster named Mary Alaina bought an expensive ring from Diamonds By Lauren and the ring was shipped to her and lost/stolen. DBL refunded her $$$ IMMEDIATELY and pursued the claim with the shipping company. That's what good, moral, smart, honest, and decent business owners do. They don't make the seller jump through red tape, they don't change their terms over and over again, and they do the best they can to resolve the situation quickly and amicably. You had a number of chances to do that, but didn't.

There is a big difference there though - in that case, DBL were the sender and therefore had taken out insurance on the package. Since it was lost/stolen then they could file the claim.

Here, although AGL actually put the stone in the post, they were acting on behalf of Kelpie who was the sender. It is therefore down to Kelpie to file the insurance claim. RH cannot do so as she was not the sender.

At this point, I think that Kelpie is nuts if she is refusing to file the claim with the post office and is not helping herself or the situation. It is not down to her to decide the value or otherwise of the stone - that is down to the post office insurance department. If RH also has a receipt to show what she paid then I can't see what Kelpie thinks she is laying herself open to by filing...

The point is though that DBL issued the refund right away and didn't wait for an insurance claim to kick in nor did they wait for it to possibly "turn up" before they issued the refund. That is what Rock Hugger SHOULD have done. Rock Hugger also hurt the claim process by resending the stone to the OP and putting it in even more possible peril, because it was sent again and refused delivery. It's been duly noted that Rock Hugger said she was going to refund the OP her $$$ ASAP, then said her paypal was taking an extended period of time, then nothing from Rock Hugger, then Rock Hugger brings up the issue of damage after a fairly long period time after the lab made the determination from the lab that the stone was not what Rock Hugger claimed it was. The fact that the stone wasn't what the seller said it was made the sale null and void even before damage became an issue. That was agreed upon at the time of the sale.

Rock Hugger look at this way, I go to a dealer and decide to buy a used car, I ask the dealer if I can take it to a mechanic to have it checked out before purchase. The dealer agrees and gives me name of several local mechanics to choose from. I take to one of the names from that list and while the car is there it gets damaged. The dealer isn't going to hold me responsible and isn't going to make me buy the car.

 

[Imdanny]

Because when she said she was unhappy with the stone, I had absolutely no knowlege the stone would be delivered to me damaged. If the stone not come back to me damaged she would absolutely have received a refund. Just because the stone was not what she expected, doesnt mean it did not have significant value for me to resell or keep. But being damaged, that value is gone. Either AGL or USPS needs to be held accountable for that damage due to poor packaging.

I have offered her a partial refund and refund of AGL fees along with reciepts of what I paid for the stone, and she can file a claim without my input or participation on her own, but seller the buyer refused. There is nothing more I can or am willing to do.

Like the anology I said before, if you buy a TV that was supposed to be red at a store, get it home and it is blue, then drop it on the way back to the store to be returned and it shatters, the seller will not accept it back regardless of the origional complaint. I cannot stress that enough, online sales are no different then BM stores. In fact, offering the buyer a partial refund is above and beyond what any retail outlet would have done apon receiving a damaged return.

This is all a rehash of what was said before.

"Just because the stone was not what she expected"

Wow, no, she never agreed to nor contracted to buy a misrepresented stone, and, the seller had a so-called 150% authenticity gurantee. Kelpie was never the owner of this stone, period.

If we conclude that the seller's money back gurantee is something she doesnt honor, that's no one here being unfair to her.

 

[risingsun]

Thanks for the lessons on stone flipping.

I'm not sure if this comment was supposed to be snarky or not. I wanted to describe my interactions with RH. All I know about stone flipping was from the posts that she shared with others on PS. If I'm mistaken, I am sorry. It is important, I believe, to know something of RH's ethics and conduct since she joined PS. as it reflects on her current behavior. I tend to look for patterns of behavior, as this is part of my training.

Hi, no, it wasn't. I realized after I posted that it might not come off right. and I thought about substituting "definitions" for "lessons" but then I thought that would be too nerdy. I should have been more clear. I'm sorry.

I apologize for the misunderstanding, Imdanny This thread has raised my hackles and I'm not even sure what hackles are

 

[Deia]

Why does everyone call her Kate Klein? Where did that come from? I thought rock hugger was Kathryne Schriefer?

 

[brandy_z28]

RH no one but you has tarnished your name. Don't make excuses, make good. Kelpie is owed her money for the stone and the cert. Right now you have the stone, the cert, her money and an insurance claim. How is any of that fair to Kelpie? Quit making excuses and make good on your '150% guarantee'.

 

[Arkteia]

All I can see, RH, that as this thread goes on, PS'ers opinion of you is getting lower and lower...

I never knew what "stone flipping" was. Now that the term has been explained, I see nothing wrong with the practice itself. It is not illegal, and probably half ebay works this way. And bigger chain stores make way higher profit on way worse stones.

But the list of your real or perceived slights (sorry, can not find a better word) is increasing, and increasing... as this thread drags on. RH, is it worthy of it? The damage done to your business is already way more that $ 750.00, I am positive, regardless of what you say about your store... Just pay it, for the sake of your business and reputation, before lots of other things are dragged out... You are outspoken, I know it, and said some things very openly, but in the light of this situation, everything you ever said or posted will be eventually discussed and dissected, your first name, your last name... Just my honest advice, I do not know what else to say, I just wish you were not stuck here... No one had threads that long, and to be fair, I surely bought things way worse than your non-cuprian and at much higher prices, and other people got burned with their stones, too, I know it... . and yet no other vendor had a thread that long! It just shows me that there is some flaw in your approach to this problem.

Sorry. Again, I do not mean to give your advises, I just see the way it is going, and the only way for you to end it is to pay out the money. I think the money needed to be reimbursed to start with, but now it is even beyond the point. The point is, you started well, got a store, made connections with good suppliers, or so you say, got some education from GIA, GG or no GG, got knowledge, all in a short period of time... to put it all at stake for a stone that cost you way less than $ 750.00??? Does not make sense

 

[LD]

Why does everyone call her Kate Klein? Where did that come from? I thought rock hugger was Kathryne Schriefer?

I believe but would need to go back through this thread that she uses the name Kate Klein on Ebay - ie Gemsrock2010 but then you contact Kate Klein. I'm sure (again posted on this thread) that her stated location was also false i.e. what was on Ebay bore no resemblance to her actual location. Why any genuine vendor would feel the need to lie about their name and location is beyond me!

 

[Imdanny]

Thanks for the lessons on stone flipping.

I'm not sure if this comment was supposed to be snarky or not. I wanted to describe my interactions with RH. All I know about stone flipping was from the posts that she shared with others on PS. If I'm mistaken, I am sorry. It is important, I believe, to know something of RH's ethics and conduct since she joined PS. as it reflects on her current behavior. I tend to look for patterns of behavior, as this is part of my training.

Hi, no, it wasn't. I realized after I posted that it might not come off right. and I thought about substituting "definitions" for "lessons" but then I thought that would be too nerdy. I should have been more clear. I'm sorry.

I apologize for the misunderstanding, Imdanny This thread has raised my hackles and I'm not even sure what hackles are

No, really it's my fault and call me Danny.

 

[Imdanny]

I don't care how RH got the stone. I guess "direct importer of fine and rare gemstones" means not a stone flipper but I don't really care. This I have a problem with:

**I am a GIA Gemologist, and direct importer of fine and rare gemstones. All stones I sell have been examined and tested with multiple gemological tools, and I guarantee 150% the accurate description and authenticity of everything I sell! If I cannot guarantee it 150%, I will not sell it!!!!***

The facts say otherwise.

Also, I wonder what a "GIA Gemologist" means.

I think it is intended to mean that someone has studied courses towards the GG with the GIA, but had not actually completed the GG. I'm not sure that it is completely ethical as it is somewhat misleading and I'm not sure that the GIA would be very happy if this is the case.

I believe that you need to complete a course at one of the reputable educational establishments (GIA (GG), Gem-A (FGA), AIGS, CGA, GAA for example) to claim that you are a gemmologist.

Thanks, Pandora.

 

[distracts]

Please read the Ebay TOS. Every buyer on ebay agrees to them, and they surpass any TOS us sellers have. In the Ebay TOS, refunds are given apon return of the item, in ORIGIONAL condition. It is the buyers responsibility to read these terms when signing up for ebay.

My website says "Returns are accepted in origional unaltered condition".

A. That is patently false. The Ebay Buyer Protection, which seems to be what you're referencing,says nothing of the sort. It seems that in some cases, you are not even required to return the item at all if you dispute under that.

B. According to Ebay, you are required to state return policies in the listing. Not on your website. In the listing. Ebay Buyer Protection is separate from your own return policies, and, as I understand it, only supersedes them in the event that the buyer makes a claim and Ebay follows through on it.

C. As well, this: "We do not transfer legal ownership of items from the seller to the buyer. California Commercial Code § 2401(2) and Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2) applies to the transfer of ownership between the buyer and the seller, unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise."

It looks like a relevant part of the Uniform Commercial Code (not 2-401, but a little after) is this:

"§ 2-613. Casualty to Identified Goods.

Where the contract requires for its performance goods identified when the contract is made, and the goods suffer casualty without fault of either party before the risk of loss passes to the buyer, or in a proper case under a "no arrival, no sale" term (Section 2-324) then

(a) if the loss is total the contract is avoided; and
(b) if the loss is partial or the goods have so deteriorated as no longer to conform to the contract the buyer may nevertheless demand inspection and at his option either treat the contract as avoided or accept the goods with due allowance from the contract price for the deterioration or the deficiency in quantity but without further right against the seller."

I'm not a lawyer, but it does look like that the word "the contract is avoided" means that the money belongs to Kelpie and the rock belongs to Gemsrocks. This is not a case of a "sale, then return" but of a conditional sale, and the "risk of loss" had not yet passed to the buyer since Kelpie rejected the goods due to their failing to pass inspection.