Conned on ebay. I quit!

[kelpie]

Do you have the original link to the auction (or the Facebook one)?

Here is the link and because it will expire soon, I'll post the text.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280712672577&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

1.17ct Brazilian Paraiba Tourmaline Cushion

Wow. That is all someone can say when looking at this Paraiba tourmaline! The pictures speak for this unbelievable stone!! Pure and perfect windex blue, this tourmaline was cut into an antique cushion cut by a local lapidary artist. It is completely eye clean, and glows in all light sources. These photos were taken in the shade (picture 5 was taken in direct sunlight), and have no additional light source or photoshopping. What you see is all gemstone. This listing is for the cushion only. The round is available in a different listing.

Note: All my photos are taken in natural direct and indirect sunlight. I do NOT use light boxes, artificial lighting, or photo shopping. I do not 'glam' up the stone to sell it, as I want you to open your package and see the same stone in the picture. The gem you receive will the the exact stone shown!!

Origin: Brazil

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I check my messages regularly and will respond ASAP!

**I am a GIA Gemologist, and direct importer of fine and rare gemstones. All stones I sell have been examined and tested with multiple gemological tools, and I guarantee 150% the accurate description and authenticity of everything I sell! If I cannot guarantee it 150%, I will not sell it!!!!***

I ship the day of cleared payment! Paypal only! International bidders are welcome, please message me for a shipping quote, as I will only ship trackable fed ex outside of the USA.

 

[Barrett]

LOL..ole hugger...the lover of ebay and paraiba tourmalines she would buy off them. Chances are your "paraiba" she sold you came from ebay to begin with. She was keen on buying them from ebay and started her selling venture by flipping them to other people. Mozambique to begin with and I guess on to "brazilian" or so it seems. Here is a great thread with much questioning done by our in-house cuprian experts TL and LD...I even sent her the contact info to get her stones tested for copper for a very low low price...see what happens when you don't heed the advice of the purple caped crusader
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/recieved-my-rebound-stone.142452/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/recieved-my-rebound-stone.142452/[/URL]

She used to argue that she could tell a cuprian/paraibas because this stone or that stone has "glow" or "neon" I remember trying to explain that what she was seeing in 95% of the stones she owned was not "neon" and not "glow". She thought all of her mozambique suite of 70 stones were neon and glow stones.

This quote should sum it up and I hope she has since learned more since she posted this
[Rockhugger} "It looks like a copper bearing tourmaline (the pic from the side deff). But it is a very low quality one. Im not understanding amethystguys post. If it had copper in it, it is still technically a 'paraiba tourmaline' in the market. Stones can carry all sorts of minerals in them,including iron, depending on the location. If its neon blue/green/pink/purple , and contains copper, its a cuprian "paraiba' tourmaline, even if it also contains iron."

As a side note and to be fair, it happens all the time with cuprians. I have been "gotten" by brazilian paraibas a few times in the past and in all fairness it's easy to sell what you thought was a paraiba and find out later on it's not. It has happened to me before. That is why I get microprobes or spectra on all cuprians and why it's important for everyone to do the same.... as Kelpie did. Well done. Rockhugger has come along way since her very first post on here so I would give her the benefit of the doubt even though time has been a factor here. Sh*t happens so wait until all the cards are on the table before you make your final decision

 

[Barrett]

I must say it sure does have the look of a paraiba...need to file this one under my "stones colored by iron that look like cuprians" along with TL's example of that afghan one..the bar cut. This is a great examples of why you should not by cuprian/paraibas because they have copper and it's the thang to do. Why pay more for a gemstone because it has copper when you can buy ones like this colored by Iron for fractions of the price? This stone puts 80% of all so called cuprians and paraibas to shame...and it's going to be colored by iron....LOLOLOL

 

[LD]

Ok - let's dissect this ............

Let's say I owned this stone. Let's say I've been sold it as a Brazilian Paraiba Tourmaline and it's exceptionally clean. It's over 1ct and looks to be cut very well. I now want to sell it on.

Let's say I got the deal of the century on it (and we have to assume I've bought it for a lot less than $700 to feel comfortable selling it for that - once Ebay/Paypal have taken their cut), assume I will only nett around $600. So that means I've probably bought it originally for around $300 ish.

So, with that in mind (and I'm a GG) do I honestly believe this is a genuine Brazilian Paraiba Tourmaline, knowing it's rarity and value? Would I send it to a lab rather than trust the person who sold it to me? Without question.

Lastly, even if I don't get it tested but I'm positive this is genuine am I seriously going to sell this for $700? Absolutely 1000% NOOOOOOOOOO! I would research the appropriate price and then discount slightly to attract buyers.

 

[kelpie]

LD, you are absolutely right! If something looks too good to be true it probably is. I was lulled into a false sense of security by her cheerful assurances to get it tested ( afterall she says she's already put it through a litany of tests), her bogus 150 % garrantee, and her reputation which I thought was good. I thought I couldn't lose. I cant believe she kept the stone and my money! She just went, "thanks for the lab report sucker!" What a horrible person.

#Edited for phone post errors

 

[LD]

Oh Kelpie I am absolutely gutted for you. Whenever this happens it's the pits but when you sort of know the person (and trust them), it's even worse. Well, presumably she still reads the forum so let's hope she does the right thing.

You know what? Had she been selling this as a lovely Indicolite then the price would have been good and you wouldn't felt have felt cheated and would have paid a fair price.

 

[Aoife]

LD, you are absolutely right! If something looks too good to be true it probably is. I was lulled into a false sense of security by her cheerful assurances to get if tested ( afterall she says she's already put it through a litany if tests), her bogus 150 % garrantee, and her reputation which I thought was good. I thought I couldn't lose. I cant believe she kept the stone and my money! She just went, "thanks for the lab report sucker!" What a horrible person.

Kelpie, I am so, so sorry this happened to you. I keep hoping that perhaps she had some kind of personal issues to attend to, hasn't been able to respond to her ebay business because of that, and that your refund will be forthcoming. Hoping, but not really expecting.

I remember the discussion AmethystGuy linked to, and as I recall, it was around that time she stopped posting.

This is such a cynical misuse of the camaraderie that I think most of us feel in CS.

 

[lavatea]

How long ago did she confirm receipt of the stone back from the lab? I may have missed that in your posts somewhere, but I can't see how long it's been since you've been waiting for your refund. I did see that you initially paid for the stone in June or July, but I'm assuming that was prior to it being sent to the lab.

 

[kelpie]

I notified her of AGL's findings 9/2 within a day she said she was transferring funds to paypal to reimburse me but it could take 7 days. AGL shipped it to her on the 6 or 7 which was also the deadline to file a case. I truly debated opening a case but did not want to marr the reputation of a fellow forum member by doing so. Since she was so apologetic and responsive I didn't open one and now it is too late. She confirmed recept of the stone sept 12, complained about AGL's packaging and said she still needed to inspect the stone. Ive sent two emails since then with no response. Thanks for the support guys. I hope there is a logical explanation too and she follows through.

 

[Barrett]

Give it time..she will come through...no worries

 

[Ella]

The weird thing is if you find an old post by her and click on it its like her profile doesn't exist but it completely shows the email address she registered for PS under. A few days ago I went to respond to someone and I got some weird stuff at the top of my screen which showed another user's email. Very odd.

Very sorry this happened to your kelpie.

This has been removed. The reason this occurred is because that was the original username she registered with prior to us requiring her to change it.

Please do not worry, this should not happen with other accounts.

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

Give it time..she will come through...no worries

? ? ? ?

Reassuring?

I hope this is true

Anyway, so sorry for your misplaced trust Kelpie, and it's a shame because
the stone is lovely and I wish it was as advertised...
I hate to hear of stuff like this, I am a trusting person too,
and it stinks when you find yourself in a situation like this ~!~!~~!

So many ppl we think we "know" b/c of forums we frequent,
we love to share and post here...and everyone seems like a trustworthy friend.
I would have done the same as you, this really truly bites...

UGH.

 

[SB621]

Being that she has been super responsive on email before perhaps something did happen where she can't get to her computer etc to take care of things. Rockhugger did a ton of purchasing on ebay so I"m sure she knows the importance of keeping positive feedback.

Out of curosity was this one of her more high priced items? Or was most of her stuff under $50? I think alot of what she used to post on PS a while ago was all cheap stones she bought on ebay, and as someone already mentioned- flip them for a profit but I don't think it was ever that much.

 

[Indylady]

I remember the poster--

Sending some refund dust your way..

 

[lavatea]

I notified her of AGL's findings 9/2 within a day she said she was transferring funds to paypal to reimburse me but it could take 7 days. AGL shipped it to her on the 6 or 7 which was also the deadline to file a case. I truly debated opening a case but did not want to marr the reputation of a fellow forum member by doing so. Since she was so apologetic and responsive I didn't open one and now it is too late. She confirmed recept of the stone sept 12, complained about AGL's packaging and said she still needed to inspect the stone. Ive sent two emails since then with no response. Thanks for the support guys. I hope there is a logical explanation too and she follows through.

Thanks for the clarification.

So it's been around 20 days w/out refund, and now 10 days or so w/out stone.

I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt, too, but that is a long time w/out responding to e-mails at least. Even when my daughter was in the hospital last year I had my laptop. Crud, most people can send and receive e-mails from their phones! Now, there is the remote possibility that she herself is in no condition to even check e-mail. I hope that's not the case.

Please update when you can.

 

[T L]

Kelpie,
I know her on FB, and she said the stone was returned cracked and not in perfect condition. She posted this today. I'm not saying you are at fault about this whole fiasco at all, but I just want to let you know as an FYI. I hope you two can come to some resolution. At the very least, she should contact you about the damage, if there is any.

 

[Aoife]

Kelpie,
I know her on FB, and she said the stone was returned cracked and not in perfect condition. She posted this today. I'm not saying you are at fault about this whole fiasco at all, but I just want to let you know as an FYI. I hope you two can come to some resolution. At the very least, she should contact you about the damage, if there is any.

That was very kind of you to follow up like this, TL. IMO, though, it is extremely unprofessional to not contact Kelpie to let her know the condition of the gemstone, including photos of the box, and the damage. If the box was damaged between AGL and Rockhugger receiving it, surely there was some type of insurance involved?

 

[Arkteia]

God, what a horrible story!

Kelpie, I am very sorry. And it is not a small sum at all! I hope Paypal is going to help you, like they help me although my complaint was out of time limits.

I really liked this seller, even started a thread about her on "Who is Who". Later she posted that her first ebay store had to be closed because her Paypal account had been vandalized. Since that time, two more shops opened and closed.

http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserIdHistory&requested=gemsrock2010

Ebay is a scary place... Wish you the best!

 

[decodelighted]

Hmmmmm. Plenty of time to defend herself on Facebook but no time to return emails to the CUSTOMER whose $$$ *and* gem she has? Not smelling pretty. I read back over some old posts today & saw some pretty feisty confrontations with long time, VERY respected PS members over her advocacy of flipping icky stones. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

Hopefully she'll remedy THIS situation. With so many ebay & paypal switcheroos -- I wonder how many *Facebook* personas she might have?

 

[Addnamehere]

Wow. Talk about words being said...

Keplie, if you need to contact me, please do so on my private email. I had no idea this was an issue, as we have been talking back and forth sence I received the tourmaline back. I have send you two messages through eBay after getting the package. Once was the day I received it, I told you it was sent to me from AGL, and was loose in a box with 2 baggies and an envelope with the baggies in it. I told you in detail of the packaging, so you can forward the information to the appropriate people. I then told you I was going to check the stone for damage when I got home because of it being loose in a box for 2000 miles.

I wrote you again through eBay messages telling you the stone had a fracture in it that was not there before, and I am assuming caused from the stress of being knocked around in the box. I advised you to call the post office, and claim it on insurance and I would cooperate with them. I also offered to send you photos of the stone and the packaging so you can show the post office but have yet to hear back. This was sent the day after I received the package. I have assumed you are busy doing what you are doing, where you are. I had no idea you were concerned until I was notified about this post.

eBay messages are unreliable at best, and sometimes go strait to the main mailbox. Please check your spam mail for these messages!

As far as the tourmaline, it is not a 'ebay' flip. Iam way beyond 'flipping' eBay stones for a living. It was purchased from a dealer in the states, and resold for almost cost. If you saw it, it is very easily misidentified as Brazilian material. I apologized for the mistake and changed all descriptions for it's sister stone (similar color, same dealer). It happens to all of us.

My offer to cooperate with the post office as well as send a photo of the fracture is still there, even after the nasty things she said.
I cannot resell this stone for even close to cost, because of the fracture, and because of that the claim needs to be made with the post
office, and AGL who packaged this stone so poorly (like I said in my email to kelpie, I am appalled and shocked AGL would ship a stone like that).

As for my eBay/paypal account, i have only had two (including the one that was hacked over a year ago). I am not sure what crasu is
referring to. Please don't confuse my business with someone else's or 'accuse' me of shady selling practices when you have never
purchased through me. Most of my stones come from high end dealers, purchased in person, and not sold online.

Thanks, and that is all I have to say about this issue in a public forum. Please contact me kelpie so we can work together and resolve this issue. I am not going to entertain any future posts, because this is a unfortunate misunderstanding between me and my customer.

Eta: crasru- those are not shops opening and closing. Those are seller I'd changes on the same account. I took over my mothers account after my account was hacked, and changed it to gemsrock2010. The previous names are her name changes on the same account. They all share the same feedback. I wanted to clarify that.

 

[decodelighted]

Should be easy enough to post a screen grab of that key "missing" message you sent .... since the whole matter has gone *public* now.

 

[Arkteia]

My mistake, I do not know ebay that well. Just three stores, correct?

http://myworld.ebay.com/cybersoldauctions

Kelpie, what an unpleasant, unpleasant story...

 

[Harriet]

AGL probably ships gems daily. I'd be stunned if they didn't know how to package them properly.

 

[kelpie]

I do appreciate the response. However two messages have gone unreturned since sept 12. I certainly never got one about the crack which is why I felt a public forum was one of the only available avenues since I can't file a case on eBay. The stone was returned to you from AGL so I am in no way responsible for it's condition. After you process my refund I can look into insurance but again I never received any request asking me to do this.

Also, if my refund in the amount of $858.99 is processed as requested I'll chalk this up to a misunderstanding and request mods delete this thread hoping that you are more diligent in verifying your wares in the future. Please do this today as I owe my credit card company some more info so they can start the dispute.

 

[Barrett]

"It was purchased from a dealer in the states, and resold for almost cost. If you saw it, it is very easily misidentified as Brazilian material."

Yes, this is gemstone selling 101 and a mistake just about every seller has made at least once and this was the point I tried to make above. We had this discussion before about you "seeing" neon and glow in your stones and assuming they were copper bearing or what you were even seeing was even "the glow". This is a case in point, Hugger.
Ebay, american dealer, brazilian dealer it doesn't matter. I spent a large amount of money on a Nigerian "paraiba" tourmaline ffrom and american seller who's speciality was tourmaline and copper bearing tourmaline at that.... it turned out to be...non-copper bearing. I also spent many many many thousands of dollars on a brazilan paraiba from my trusted dealer in Tefilo Otoni which also turned out not to be copper bearing..Chris Smith personally tested it. The kicker is 99% of all the other tourmaline I bought from my brazilian dealer has tested positive for copper as a chromophore...and I bought a lot and I had a lot tested.

In both cases if for some odd reason I had no access to testing and were to just go by track record of the person(99% tested positive for CU), location(america and brazil not ebay or china), stone color(the one brazilian stone looked better than the famous Pala paraiba picture/center stone superimposed and side by side comparison), and all other factors I or anyone would have placed their bets on tehy were cuprian. That just goes to show.

It's a mistake and one thta is somewhat new to the gem world...with things like paraibas tourmalines, chrome tourmalines, etc. people want to know that CU or Cr is present even though a non Cu or CR stone can do the same color in most cases.

 

[kelpie]

Okaaaay, since she claims ebay messages are unreliable at best and she hasn't received two of my others, it's also here for her and anyone else to view:

I’m not sure what justification you are trying to use for why I haven’t received a refund yet. I was neither the sender of the stone nor its recipient. If it cracked while it was in my possession surely AGL would have noted it. I am just the unfortunate buyer who was sold misrepresented goods, paid considerable expensive to verify the stone to your benefit, and now I am out $858.99. Moreover, the value of the stone as a non-copper bearing tourmaline is really minimal so I think filing a claim against the full insured value would frankly be an abuse of the postal system. I have a precision cut nearly identical non-cuprian that was under $200…and I’m willing to pay several times more for a precision cut stone than what I’d pay on ebay for a stone of the same type rough. Please issue my overdue refund, and I will delete unflattering (but accurate) posts and put you in touch with AGL to work out a claim with the postal service because that has nothing to do with me. I do not like to air my laundry in public but I really had no other choice since you have not responded to my messages or issued a refund and ebay and paypal were no help. I really do hope you follow through with your “150% guarantee” and we can call it a day.

 

[chrono]

I am sorry to hear of BOTH your troubles.

Kelpie,
Are your emails still not getting through to RockHuggers'? Has she received your other 2 emails yet? I think it is time to make another attempt to resolve this offline as there are too many details possibly not mentioned here for most of us to give this a fair think. No matter the background, I feel your pain as $800 is a lot of money for a stone that isn't as represented.

 

[Addnamehere]

I still have not received any emails from you kelpie. Please do not contact me through eBay if you are. We are obviously having a problem through their messaging, and I don't want to miss any Emails.

I tried to contact the USPS the day after I received the stone, and was told I cannot start a claim because I am not the shipper. You need to contact them. Again, I am more then happy to help you with the process but I cannot do anything without your communication and starting the claim through the USPS.

As far as value of the stone, the price you paid is still around retail value for the color (it is a custom cut as well by the way), It's sister stone is selling for just slightly less and is less saturated. So do not worry about the claim on that aspect.

Please please contact me. I will post my email again, and hopefully it won't get deleted by mods.

**edited by moderator. you know better please**

 

[kelpie]

I still have not received any emails from you kelpie. Please do not contact me through eBay if you are. We are obviously having a problem through their messaging, and I don't want to miss any Emails.

I tried to contact the USPS the day after I received the stone, and was told I cannot start a claim because I am not the shipper. You need to contact them. Again, I am more then happy to help you with the process but I cannot do anything without your communication and starting the claim through the USPS.

As far as value of the stone, the price you paid is still around retail value for the color. It's sister stone is selling for just slightly less and is less saturated. So do not worry about the claim on that aspect.

Please please contact me. I will post my email again, and hopefully it won't get deleted by mods.

**edited by moderator. you know better please**

Thank you for your quick reply. I will use your email from now on, even though ebay shows them in my "sent" folder. I am not the shipper either, so how can I start a claim? Are you trying to tie my refund to successful post office claim when I was not the shipper? I can put you in touch with AGL, but see nothing that is holding up my refund other than your willingness to process it.

 

[SB621]

Shouldn't you be contacting the service (in this case AGL) that sent you the stone directly RH? Kelpie never shipped it so why is she contacting USPS for you. This seems super shady to me. You should refund her and then work out insurance problems with AGL and USPS. It is just poor business practice to keep your customer waiting on something they had no control over.

Keplie- just a word of wise. When you still email RH keep all the email in case you still need to file a claim for paypal. I have been told that once you take communication off paypal lines it is harder for them to prove or disprove your claim. I have no first hand experience on this but just something to think about. So keep records of all communication.