Conned on ebay. I quit!

[ooo~Shiney!]

I still have not received any emails from you kelpie. Please do not contact me through eBay if you are. We are obviously having a problem through their messaging, and I don't want to miss any Emails.

I tried to contact the USPS the day after I received the stone, and was told I cannot start a claim because I am not the shipper. You need to contact them. Again, I am more then happy to help you with the process but I cannot do anything without your communication and starting the claim through the USPS.

As far as value of the stone, the price you paid is still around retail value for the color (it is a custom cut as well by the way), It's sister stone is selling for just slightly less and is less saturated. So do not worry about the claim on that aspect.

Please please contact me. I will post my email again, and hopefully it won't get deleted by mods.

**edited by moderator. you know better please**

Kelpie is not the shipper
AGL did not identify a crack

 

[kelpie]

Shouldn't you be contacting the service (in this case AGL) that sent you the stone directly RH? Kelpie never shipped it so why is she contacting USPS for you. This seems super shady to me. You should refund her and then work out insurance problems with AGL and USPS. It is just poor business practice to keep your customer waiting on something they had no control over.

Keplie- just a word of wise. When you still email RH keep all the email in case you still need to file a claim for paypal. I have been told that once you take communication off paypal lines it is harder for them to prove or disprove your claim. I have no first hand experience on this but just something to think about. So keep records of all communication.

Thanks, Sarah. You're quite right.

 

[minmin001]

I still have not received any emails from you kelpie. Please do not contact me through eBay if you are. We are obviously having a problem through their messaging, and I don't want to miss any Emails.

I tried to contact the USPS the day after I received the stone, and was told I cannot start a claim because I am not the shipper. You need to contact them. Again, I am more then happy to help you with the process but I cannot do anything without your communication and starting the claim through the USPS.

As far as value of the stone, the price you paid is still around retail value for the color (it is a custom cut as well by the way), It's sister stone is selling for just slightly less and is less saturated. So do not worry about the claim on that aspect.

Please please contact me. I will post my email again, and hopefully it won't get deleted by mods.

**edited by moderator. you know better please**

stop making excuse for the payment delay. she did not send the stone so if anything work with AGL on the case and refund her the money already.

 

[decodelighted]

If I were a criminal this sounds like a fabulous scam. Sell lower quality gems as if they were fine ... have someone else insure it at the higher amount ... it becomes "damaged" somehow and claimed at that amount -- far above its true worth, or initial investment. Trick is to get someone ELSE ... always someone ELSE to file the claims or they'll all track back to YOU.

NOT saying that's the case HERE obviously.

 

[decodelighted]

Curious also why photos of the damaged packaging materials & damaged stone with this terrifyingly hard, stone damaging *box* haven't been posted yet. SURELY plenty were taken at the time of arrival -- as would be necessary documentation to ever hope to get an insurance claim processed??

 

[Deia]

Sorry for both your troubles too...

I hope this all get resolved quickly and amicably.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Kelpie,

I'm afraid you may be regarded as the shipper. When I have had AGL or Gia srons shipped ack to me, I'm the one who insure them, not AGL or GIA. In fact they ask how much I want to insure them for and charge me accordingly for the insurance. I don't know why you would think AGL would pay for your insurance.

I have also found missing e-mails in my spam.

But, its awful to have this happen. I think you will be able to work it out.

Annette

 

[LD]

AGL ship stones unsecurely? I would very much doubt it.

Why not send photos to Kelpie to prove the damage to the stone?

How does Kelpie know that YOU haven't damaged the stone after it was shipped back?

Saying emails are going astray is a bit like the old excuse of "the cheque's in the post". How about a screenshot of the email via Ebay you said you sent????? If Kelpie's account is set up the same way as mine then not only does she get Ebay emails in her Ebay inbox but she also gets them direct to her email account. She hasn't got either.

You promised to refund Kelpie. You haven't. So what's the excuse for that???? Clearly you have her email and Paypal details as she paid you originally.

Do the right thing and pay back Kelpie in full.

I wonder what you would have done had Kelpie not outed you on here?

 

[brandy_z28]

Sheisty to say the least

The money kelpie was out should be refunded immediately.

 

[kelpie]

Hi Kelpie,

I'm afraid you may be regarded as the shipper. When I have had AGL or Gia srons shipped ack to me, I'm the one who insure them, not AGL or GIA. In fact they ask how much I want to insure them for and charge me accordingly for the insurance. I don't know why you would think AGL would pay for your insurance.

I have also found missing e-mails in my spam.

But, its awful to have this happen. I think you will be able to work it out.

Annette

Thanks, I hope it gets resolved and this thread can be deleted. I cannot believe a business person would throw away their reputation by doing this. I believe AGL did ask me what I wanted to insure it for however that was just to calculate what to bill me. The stone was sent registered mail so I don't see how USPS would consider me an interested party if they didn't consider the recipient one. I don't have any paperwork except the tracking number. I have checked my spam. I also emailed her earlier at the address she provided. No response. No refund.

 

[kelpie]

Finally a response,

Here is a photo of the stone with the feather. It goes from the girdle and feathers out, then tapers towards the center of the stone. I am not at my home computer right now, I only have my ipad and iphone. If you want additional pictures, I can send them when I get home on monday. This is the best I can get with the limited camera I have on me, but I wanted to send you something right away.


My reply:
No amount of damage you are claiming changes that you sold me mispresented goods which were returned and you haven't refunded me. That comes first. I will absolutely put you in touch with AGL (I have less USPS info that you do, only the tracking number) but your claim against AGL or the USPS has nothing to do with the fact that you have defrauded me and haven't made it right.

 

[LD]

Kelpie - have you seen this stone in person?

 

[Addnamehere]

Also, I see you are posting all of our messages on a public forum. I understand you want support, but this is between you my customer, and me. Not between us and pricescope. You have said your piece about my business, and as it is a customer forum, you have the right to do so, but I am doing my best to work with you to get you your refund, and I am requesting our messages not be boradcasted across the internet.

If they continue to be after this email, I will stop communications with you unless it is about the claim information from the USPS or AGL.

Like I said previously, I am not in the contract between you and AGL so I cannot claim anything through them. You must do it as the account holder. I am a 3d party as far as AGL and USPS are concerned. The item I received back is damaged, and not in the same condition I sent it to you in. At this point, I have a once expensive gemstone (copper or not) that now has minimal value due to damage. You need to contact AGL and get the claim started. As soon as it is, I will cooporate with them fully. It is a quick phone call and a fax.

As far as fraud, fraud is knowingly selling you something misrepresented. I sold you an item and described it as I was led to believe by a reputable dealer, and tested it accordingly. I cannot test for copper, so I rely on my dealers to be truthful, or a lab result. If the stone came back to me in the condition I sent it to you, we would not be in this situation. I am trying to work with you, and need a little cooporation in return.

 

[LD]

You told her you were refunding her. Why didn't you refund her when you said you were going to? Irrespective of the damage to the stone YOU SOLD HER A STONE THAT WAS NOT AS DESCRIBED. You have an obligation to put that right. Forget everything else and stop using it as an excuse. If you had done your homework and got the stone checked out (like a professional would have done) you wouldn't be in this mess.

You would have gained much kudos had you come on here and said, this is the story, I'll work with Kelpie and I'm sure she'll help me but in the meantime here's the refund.

 

[LD]

If you blow up the photos in the original Ebay auction there is, what appears to be, the same inclusion. I could be wrong but see what you think. In the right hand photo, RH is saying that the inclusion goes in a curve. Follow the arrows on the photo I've posted. The other thing of course is that you can ask AGL if it was there was they saw it.

It's all immaterial in any event because you were missold this stone. There should be remorse from her not delays.

 

[Addnamehere]

There was no inclusion within the stone other then small pin points. The stone was not cracked when it was at AGL. I have the AGL memo here, and there are NO cracks in the photo (I can supply that as well to disprove your false accusation of it already being cracked). AGL packaged the stone poorly, I am assuming in a baggie and put in a box with a seperate envelope containing AGL material. When I received the package, the stone was loose in the box, with 2 open baggies and the envelope.

I cannot file a claim with AGL. Kelpie must do that because she is on the contract. I am not the shipper, so I cannot file a claim through USPS. Kelpie must do that.

 

[LD]

There was no inclusion within the stone other then small pin points. The stone was not cracked when it was at AGL. I have the AGL memo here, and there are NO cracks in the photo (I can supply that as well to disprove your false accusation of it already being cracked). AGL packaged the stone poorly, I am assuming in a baggie and put in a box with a seperate envelope containing AGL material. When I received the package, the stone was loose in the box, with 2 open baggies and the envelope.

I cannot file a claim with AGL. Kelpie must do that because she is on the contract. I am not the shipper, so I cannot file a claim through USPS. Kelpie must do that.

The report from AGL doesn't prove anything. You could have dropped the stone when you were opening the package.

You CAN refund her and then she can work with you to get the insurance.

So what you're saying is that you won't refund her unless you get the insurance? You missold a stone to her. Is your 150% guarantee just smoke in the air then?

 

[decodelighted]

What in the WORLD makes you think that Kelpie is responsible for YOUR mistake? YOU sold goods in error. Kelpie has never TOUCHED the stone. Folks at AGL have. YOU have. Kelpie has not damaged this stone in any way. And holding her $$ HOSTAGE to try to force her to coordinate some kind of insurance claim is LAME.

Its a good thing she posted here so the MAXIMUM number of gem-buyers will find out exactly how you behave and what your 150% guarantee is worth.


ETA: Can you not see how WRONG this is ... that you have the $$$, the STONE, the report and all the "damaged" packaging? You have ALL OF IT. And all she has is a tracking #? RIDICULOUS. Step outside yourself for a minute and see what the rest of us are seeing. That it STINKS.

 

[LD]

Also, I see you are posting all of our messages on a public forum. I understand you want support, but this is between you my customer, and me. Not between us and pricescope. You have said your piece about my business, and as it is a customer forum, you have the right to do so, but I am doing my best to work with you to get you your refund, and I am requesting our messages not be boradcasted across the internet.

If they continue to be after this email, I will stop communications with you unless it is about the claim information from the USPS or AGL.

Like I said previously, I am not in the contract between you and AGL so I cannot claim anything through them. You must do it as the account holder. I am a 3d party as far as AGL and USPS are concerned. The item I received back is damaged, and not in the same condition I sent it to you in. At this point, I have a once expensive gemstone (copper or not) that now has minimal value due to damage. You need to contact AGL and get the claim started. As soon as it is, I will cooporate with them fully. It is a quick phone call and a fax.

As far as fraud, fraud is knowingly selling you something misrepresented. I sold you an item and described it as I was led to believe by a reputable dealer, and tested it accordingly. I cannot test for copper, so I rely on my dealers to be truthful, or a lab result. If the stone came back to me in the condition I sent it to you, we would not be in this situation. I am trying to work with you, and need a little cooporation in return.

The bit highlighted in pink is rubbish. This is NOT Kelpie's problem. If you had done your homework you wouldn't be in this position.

100% wrong. Unless you were sure this was copper bearing and YOU had tested it OR had a lab report you should NEVER have sold it as such. You ARE responsible. Don't try to blame others or claim "I didn't know". As a seller it's your DUTY to know. If you don't know you find out or sell it saying you don't know. That would be truthful.

 

[kelpie]

Kelpie - have you seen this stone in person?

Yes, though I did not spend much time with it. I was like "Huh, looks just like my Afghan", then I promptly packaged it up to send to AGL confident I would get my refund as promised if it didn't prove copper bearing. I placed faith in the seller because she said she tested it and encouraged independent verification. At the time I received it I thought I either did not get what the aforementioned "glow" was about or that my Afghan must have it too. I wish I had taken a picture of them next to eachother, they could have been earrings. My friend showed me her 2ct+ paraiba ring that she paid 5 figures for several years back and the stone I returned is a nicely colored stone just like my Afghan from Gene but doesn't have that same look as my friend's real deal. Of course I was not expecting a stone of her caliber for $750, only that it be as stated. My friend's ring is worth so much now her jeweler keeps offering to buy it back from her for 12k more than she paid. That is the only reference point I have for paraiba, I place my good faith in vendors and labs to tell me what's what.

Have been in further contact with the vendor who is really hung up on this AGL/USPS thing being contingent on my refund. That has nothing to do with the fact that she defrauded me and is in posession of the stone and my money. I am perfectly willing to help facilitate her claim through AGL/USPS after she sends my refund. If I have to collect it from her involuntarily, I am not willing to assist someone who defrauded me. We've each stated our positions several times and seem to be at an impasse. I will use every available avenue to recoupe my money and ensure she receives the appropriate feedback so potential customers are aware of my experience and can make an informed decision about whether this is someone they want to do business with. If anyone has any ideas other than paypal, ebay, or credit card despute I welcome them. I am not done giving a full account of my experience with RockHugger on the internet yet. I am optimistic my credit card company will find in my favor, so that would help with a large portion of the money she's trying to steal.

 

[decodelighted]

If no justice through your credit card company .... small claims court?

 

[LD]

Good for you Kelpie. Don't let her get away with it. This is shoddy shoddy shoddy.

How about the IRS - as she's a business I "presume" she's paying tax on her profit?????

If she's a business - is she registered? If so, can you report her to the BBB or whatever it's called in the US?

Lodge a complaint with Ebay/Paypal in any event.

I would even ask the Police if this is criminal. She's now holding "your" goods to ransom. So in effect she's stolen it.

 

[kelpie]

Thank you, LD for making that photographic comparision. I really appreciate you and everyone having my back. That should say something to Rockhugger....we aren't desputing the basic facts except some messages sent and not received, so why have so many people spoken up to say they think I'm already past due a refund if she's so confident in her position?

I must reiterate that the contract was between me and her for the sale of a Brazilian Paraiba that wasn't one. I am neither the shipper or the receiver of the stone so I have no knowledge or responsibility for it's condition. I did not spend enough time with it to know the ins and outs of its inclusions, I packaged it to AGL right away. I do appecriate the comparision LD has put together. AGL would have notified me if it had a girdle-to-girdle crack. AGL is among the most respected gemological labs in the world, and I'm sure they know a thing or two about shipping stones.

Read the description of the listing, she says she puts it through multiple tests and will not sell something she cannot 150% garantee. That combined with her possesion of the returned stone and my money is fraud.

 

[kelpie]

Good for you Kelpie. Don't let her get away with it. This is shoddy shoddy shoddy.

How about the IRS - as she's a business I "presume" she's paying tax on her profit?????

If she's a business - is she registered? If so, can you report her to the BBB or whatever it's called in the US?

Lodge a complaint with Ebay/Paypal in any event.

I would even ask the Police if this is criminal. She's now holding "your" goods to ransom. So in effect she's stolen it.

Good suggestions. The "goods" being ransomed is my money since the merchandise was fake. I will take it up with the State's attorney general as well.

 

[minousbijoux]

Rockhugger, from the outside looking in:

1. You sold a stone as a paraiba tourmaline. Kelpie paid an amount based on this fact. If you had stated it was simply a teal tourmaline, it probably would've sold for 10 - 20% of what Kelpie paid. You know that a 1 ct teal tourmaline, even if precision cut, would never be near the price of a pretty cuprian, let alone a paraiba.

2. You said you would honor a full refund if the stone, after lab certification, turned out not to be what you purported it to be.

3. A report from the most prominent colored gem lab indicates It is not what you said.

4. You now know that while you charged her a cuprian price, you sold her a non-cuprian tourmaline.

5. How can you hold back the refund? How can you possibly think you are entitled to the full amount, when clearly what you sold her, just a tourmaline, is worth far less? Just because you were misled and overpaid for a lot of stones, does not mean you can pass it along once discovered. At this point, you, a reputable business owner, should do the right thing which would be to refund her for everything. At the very least, you should only be arguing over a fraction of the payment, since that is what it is/would be worth before its damage.

 

[SB621]

Contact the BBB...You can do so online via this link to file a claim
https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx

I would also continue to try to contact paypal, though it looks like your credit card company is the best thing for you right now. My suggestion would be to go through your credit card company and then follow up with paypal to possible get back the rest of what was owed to you. As someone already mentioned on here (was it crauso?) they were able to get a refund from paypal outside the expiration window. I know you are overseas so keep trying to contact them.

I think also once you leave negative feedback on a seller that starts some sort of case on ebay if she chooses to disbute it. Which I really hope you do. I wonder if a lot of the stuff she sells on ebay she backs 150% but most customers don't bother to get in tested so no one is the wiser

I couldn't agree more with everything LD has said. I'm disappointed this happened and even more diappointed that it was a former PS member ripping you off.

 

[Lovinggems]

Contact the BBB...You can do so online via this link to file a claim
https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx

I would also continue to try to contact paypal, though it looks like your credit card company is the best thing for you right now. My suggestion would be to go through your credit card company and then follow up with paypal to possible get back the rest of what was owed to you. As someone already mentioned on here (was it crauso?) they were able to get a refund from paypal outside the expiration window. I know you are overseas so keep trying to contact them.

I think also once you leave negative feedback on a seller that starts some sort of case on ebay if she chooses to disbute it. Which I really hope you do. I wonder if a lot of the stuff she sells on ebay she backs 150% but most customers don't bother to get in tested so no one is the wiser

I couldn't agree more with everything LD has said. I'm disappointed this happened and even more diappointed that it was a former PS member ripping you off.

BBB is useless, don't bother, it just gives the vendor a chance to say abusive things towards you and attach documents to support their argument, but these facilities are not available for the claimant. Get your money back through your CC company and try contacting Paypal to open a case after the expiration date.

 

[Barrett]

LD, I hate you(being sarcastic, of course)...after your comparison I was like.."hey thats a great idea" so I spent the last 5 hours messing around with adaptive interpolation in picture software(bi and frac. algorithms). Needed the refresher and it was fun but ..whew...
Here is what I found and it goes along with your findings..bear with me. The software looks for different pixels, colors, shadows, textures and interprets them to show differences and variances. I have cropped, roatated, resized, and layered the pictures.
Everything you see thats colored was done by the computer and software...the only things I drew in were the arrows(this is particularly true on the first picture which has a solid red line...the software did that and it's a good example of what the software can see)

Here is the original picture showing the flaw.


Now here is the software identifying the flaw. The red line I did not draw in...the software "saw" the flaw and highlighted it for me


Now here is the picture I used next from ebay. It's the one with both stones..the stone on the left is the one of interest


Okay, so I took the said stone in question then I scaled the image larger, cropped the image to almost the same size, roatated it to look like the original flaw picture/original interpolated flaw picture. Then I used the software to find any discrepancy in the stone(pre-AGL and kelpie).(notice the second stone from the ebay pic now in the left hand corner) If you notice there is some similarities...you can see a thin yellow line right near the center..just about exactly the same as the post AGL and Kelpie photo. Also take note of the red areas top and center with particular interest to the red dot to the right of that bunch

 

[smitcompton]

Dear Kelpie,

I know you are upset. If you want your money back, please file the claim with the post office/AGL. It will take 4-6 weeks and you will receive the money from the post office. Your only purpose now should be to get your money back. It has become too nasty now, and you should not continue with this discourse.

This has happened to me. I got my money from the post office and was happy and the vendor was happy. Please, as others on this forum have warned. You will not get a pariba tourmaline for 750.00.

Sleep well.

Annette

 

[Barrett]

Now here are the points of specific interest
Original flaw picture with arrows drawn in..this is the picture taken by Hugger after she recieved the stone back


Here is the ebay picture with arrows drawn to show where the software identified points of interest almost identical to the picture taken afterwards


You can see the arrows point out flaws detected by the computer from a pre-kelpie shot and a post kelpie shot.

Here is one where I layered both the pictures on top of each other...as you can see both areas pointed out by the arrows match up almost perfectly especially the top one. The bottom one does as well but it also happens to trend in the exact same direction...what are the chances that two completely different photos taken at two different times both before and after AGL and kelpie would show roughly the same type of mark?

In the layed pic you must account for slight differences in angle and distance but you can clearly see the same type of mark detected by the software.

My conclusion is the flaw was already there or was made larger by mis-handling and/or shipping. The flaw was there to begin with thats for sure...exactly how big and/or noticeable....well....