Conned on ebay. I quit!

[Lula]

I'm sorry that this happened to you, kelpie. I know you on PS as someone who is a careful and knowledgable consumer. I think LD's read on RH is correct. The money has been spent by RH and she doesn't have it to pay you back. She's backed into a corner now and is resorting to these tatics to stall for time. If it were me in this situation, I would stop communicating with her and let Paypal, the USPS, your CC, AGL, and ebay work it out. It may take a while for your case to work through the system, but if there's fraud here on RH's part, and I'm not saying there is or isn't, they will sort it out. You've tried your best to work it out with the seller of this item (RH) and you haven't been able to resolve the situation with her. You've done all you can on your end. Any further communication with RH can only add to your frustration and possibly hurt your case.

ETA: I say this as someone, who just this summer, went through something similar with an ebay seller who sold a damaged setting to me and then wouldn't honor her (stated) return policy. The ebay case resolution process was super-slow, but I got a full refund in the end. I opened the case after trying to work it out with the seller who was using similar stall techniques on me, I believe, to prevent me from opening a case with ebay within the allotted period of time for filing a complaint. This seller no longer sells on ebay.

 

[ruby59]

To the above poster, you have 45 days to make a claim with ebay or paypal. Unfortunately, the OP waited too long.

 

[Lottie]

VL, I have to wonder, as I mentioned above, if insurance, even if it exists, would cover the purchase price. When I've dealt with USPS insurance in the past, they warned me to document the items I was insuring and their value.

Wouldn't it, in fact, BE ILLEGAL to insure something for more than it's worth??????????

My law student self feels a little uncomfortable commenting, but I think it would be wrong to make a CLAIM that should be paid, not taking out the policy. Though I don't know why AGS or the sender would take out an $800 policy on something they know, at that point, is worth $50. Seems obvious to me that no one would over-insure at that point.

My humble 2 cents worth is that this a reasonably obvious attempt at postal insurance fraud. Insuring an item that turns out to have dramatically less value for an inflated declared value and then it turns up damaged? Sounds SUPER convenient to me. This whole thing stinks to high heaven in my opinion and I think some people at the post office would love to hear about how someone is potentially ripping them off through fraud.

I've never had any direct dealing with them, but I have been told that Postal Inspectors are very thorough at doing their jobs. Perhaps contacting the "seller" here with a simple "I am turning this over to the United States Postal Inspection Service for potential insurance fraud" would do the trick on getting a speedy refund to you. Ripping off USPS would not be a very smart thing to do.

I completely agree with this. I think its outrageous that you are being held to ransome in this way. I really hope to see you posting a happy resolution to this nonsense very soon. BTW I love those three rings you are selling, they look great together, I wish I had much smaller fingers.

 

[Lula]

To the above poster, you have 45 days to make a claim with ebay or paypal. Unfortunately, the OP waited too long.

Thanks, ruby. That's what happens when I try to save time by not reading the whole tread

kelpie, I'm glad you posted this thread, and I hope it encourages the seller to do that right thing by you.

 

[Arkteia]

I think LD very well read into the whole situation. As usual.

I think the tread should stay because, among other things, it shows brilliant computerwork of Amethystguy and as such, is educative.

Kelpie, you were very patient. Which is now working against you because of time limitations but you still can try contacting Paypal - they do open deferred claims, they did so in my case. Too bad your cell phone is not working, but maybe you can make a trip to a place where there is reception? The time difference does not help, either, of course, but I really wish you well...

 

[Barrett]

LD, so well written and so well said.

 

[FrekeChild]

Oh Kelpie! I'm so sorry to read this! I do hope that this gets resolved to your liking, but I am worried as well.

In items that I've sold, I always hold onto the buyer's money until they receive their package and I hear back from them reporting condition, etc. I also feel that this was likely not the case in your seller's situation.

 

[chrono]

Even without the software blowups and etc, I thought I could detect the faint lines of the feather as well. It could well be that the feather continued to "grow" in transit from the poorly packaged trip home.

As for USPS insurance, it doesn't matter what value the item is insured for - the payout will only be for the value of the item. Since the stone is obviously less than $800 as a "regular" tourmaline, there's no way USPS will refund the full amount.

 

[that_someone_special]

I just wanted to note that RH had talked about money problems on a regular basis in the pearls area... I think she even mentioned bankruptcy. She once mentioned that she applied for a credit card and was denied due to her credit.

Why am I bringing this up? Well, if a financial institution thinks she's a risk, and she admitted she was in debt-- I just wouldn't trust her with any money myself.

I read this entire thread last night with a fever and could not stop thinking about all of the lying she does but pretends she is "uninformed".
I call BS on the "didn't you get my ebay email?" I'm sure she doesn't have the money to pay you back and is buying time.

 

[cushioncutnut]

I just wanted to note that RH had talked about money problems on a regular basis in the pearls area... I think she even mentioned bankruptcy. She once mentioned that she applied for a credit card and was denied due to her credit.

Why am I bringing this up? Well, if a financial institution thinks she's a risk, and she admitted she was in debt-- I just wouldn't trust her with any money myself.

I read this entire thread last night with a fever and could not stop thinking about all of the lying she does but pretends she is "uninformed".
I call BS on the "didn't you get my ebay email?" I'm sure she doesn't have the money to pay you back and is buying time.

I hate to add insult to injury but I remember her saying that she had financial issues when she first came on PS. I am so sorry Kelpie! I love Ebay and hate that she has tainted your experience. I do think you will get it resolved. If they stand behind their EBay buyer protection that they so rave about, I would think that even if you are past the 45 day mark, they will do what they can to keep your Ebay experience a positive one.

 

[stargurl78]

Threads like this make my stomach hurt I hate when decent people are taken advantage of. I'm sorry this is happening to you Kelpie! Just keep doing whatever you can through every method possible and hopefully things will work out for the best and you'll somehow get your money back.

 

[dragonfly411]

Kelpie - I just got to this thread, and I really hope you see a positive outcome soon.

 

[Arkteia]

Even vendors with flourishing, expanded businesses may sometimes be strapped for cash specifically because their money is tied up in their businesses. It can easily happen to a struggling young mom with two small kids, one of whom is handicapped.

RH's mistake the way I see it, is that she did not respond to emails, and by doing so pushed Kelpie into raising this topic on the PS. She never ever tried to contact Kelpie, explain things, discuss what could be done, and when she finally emerged here, her tone was aggressive, and she, willingly or unwillingly, tried to push Kelpie into committing a postal fraud. And Kelpie already spent a lot of $$ on this stone, $$ that can not be reimbursed, such as shipping to AGL, certifying, etc.

These days, even very good vendors can make mistakes, but people should accept the facts and try to arrange payment plans, if they do not have $$ at the moment. (This happens in my profession, too, people owe me money, times are hard, and as long as my clients are willing and sincere, and show an intent to pay, in installments, no one gets upset and sends them to collections. Trouble happens if responses are aggressive and threatening).

This situation has undermined RH's business. Bankruptcy may ruin it. In this situation, her stance was wrong, she accused everyone else for the stone being cracked and never accepted her own responsibility. Such attitude never ever helps.

I can not advise her what to do, I am not in her shoes, and perhaps there is a reason she is so strapped for cash. In her place, I'd try to amend what can be amended, pay in installments, try not to make things worse, because eventually it may hit her very, very hard.

And actually, accept her guilt, come here and explain things as they are, since she can do it on "Pearls" forum.

 

[kelpie]

Thanks, guys. Of course RH is not going to willingly give a refund so I only hope my experience can inform other potential customers of her's. I may be foolish, but I'm not dumb enough to commit postal fraud on her behalf. I am pursuing every avenue and will let you know what happens.

 

[partgypsy]

I do feel that RH should refund the money, as the condition of the sale have not been met. This is separate from the issue of insurance. It is clear from the gem report that the gem was undamaged when Kelpie mailed it. I.e. Kelpie is totally covered from accusations that she herself broke the stone and that is the reason she is not refunding the money.

That said, I do not see why Kelpie is refraining from contacting USPS and initiating an insurance claim. That's what insurance is for. Obviously I would not claim $750, but the stone was not worth nothing ($200?) Presumably the report has enough info to determine fair market value. If so, RH will receive money from insurance in 4-6 weeks and she won't be out a total loss. If she wants to pursue further claims with whomever sold her the stone, etc that is really up to her but her refunding Kelpie should not be contingent on these other actions.

 

[T L]

Obviously I would not claim $750, but the stone was not worth nothing ($200?) .

Some retail delears would charge $750 for that stone. What PS'ers are normally used to paying is not really within the realm of the retail world. I wouldn't personally have a problem claiming $750 if the stone was insured for that much, and truly damaged by the postal service. However, we don't know that for sure.

 

[Arkteia]

TL. - admire the fact that you stand up for your FB friend, when you are a huge minority here. It is hard to stand against 5 pages of negative posts, it takes bravery, good that you believe in your friends. Regardless of the current complicated situation. You are amazing and I am proud to know you.

But from the practical standpoint, how long will it take to get any $$ from UPS? Even if Kelpie claims $ 200?
She is not living here. I am in WA, and I have a clear-cut case with Canadian customs, and I still can not get my $$ I am putting my secretary to do it. She has the time and her time costs less than mine.

So should this reimbursement be contingent on Kelpie obtaining the money from the UPS? No. Especially since the stone was clearly not damaged on the way to AGL, as their photos show? From Tanzania, in such a complicated case, she'll never be able to do it.

As to prices... I recently missed a Paraiba stone from PI. It was rather clean for a Paraiba, and way over a ct, and just slightly over 1k. On their website an on eBay, which means real world

There may be dozens of ways to raise money. RH can make a sale on her website, she used to have nice stones at one point in time, I could definitely look there, regardless of her not-so-polite attitude to me in this thread. Call me naive for trusting her now - but find't she at one time also mention separating from her husband? I just can not hear about such situations. But the longer this thing lasts here, the worse it is for RH.

 

[Arkteia]

BTW - I am going back and removing my recent thread about unhappy experience with one vendor. Boy, I made such a noise over the guy not answering me for a few days, while Kelpie was waiting for months!

 

[lelser]

A nice Windex tourmaline, even with a minor inclusion and no copper, would easily retail somewhere north of $600. Kelpie getting her money back is important but it's sad that this is how she needs to do it.

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com

 

[Indylady]

Kelpie, sending you heaps of dust..

 

[T L]

TL. - admire the fact that you stand up for your FB friend, when you are a huge minority here. It is hard to stand against 5 pages of negative posts, it takes bravery, good that you believe in your friends. Regardless of the current complicated situation. You are amazing and I am proud to know you.

But from the practical standpoint, how long will it take to get any $$ from UPS? Even if Kelpie claims $ 200?
She is not living here. I am in WA, and I have a clear-cut case with Canadian customs, and I still can not get my $$ I am putting my secretary to do it. She has the time and her time costs less than mine.

So should this reimbursement be contingent on Kelpie obtaining the money from the UPS? No. Especially since the stone was clearly not damaged on the way to AGL, as their photos show? From Tanzania, in such a complicated case, she'll never be able to do it.

As to prices... I recently missed a Paraiba stone from PI. It was rather clean for a Paraiba, and way over a ct, and just slightly over 1k. On their website an on eBay, which means real world

There may be dozens of ways to raise money. RH can make a sale on her website, she used to have nice stones at one point in time, I could definitely look there, regardless of her not-so-polite attitude to me in this thread. Call me naive for trusting her now - but find't she at one time also mention separating from her husband? I just can not hear about such situations. But the longer this thing lasts here, the worse it is for RH.

Crasru,
I'm not standing up for RH at all. I do think she should immediately refund Kelpie, without all this fuss going through the postal system and filing an insurance claim. I'm only stating that I think the stone is worth, retail, $750, and if I had to file a claim on that stone, if it was truly damaged by USPS, I would. I just wanted to set the record straight on what I think was a retail price on that gem, and Lisa agreed.

RH is a FB friend, but as you know, many of us are FB friends on here, and it doesn't mean we're all buddy buddy. I am actually quite disappointed that she won't refund Kelpie right away.

 

[kelpie]

Thanks for your support Crasru. You are right that a USPS claim is at worst impossible and at best highly inconvenient seeing as I have no definite knowledge as to the stone's actual current condition, cause of damage if any , I didn't ship or receive it, and I'm overseas. Besides the fact that it has no bearing on the fact that the goods are misrepresented.

 

[fussykiki]

I feel so sorry for you keipie!

Let's not let the negative energy affect you! How's about everyone help look for a nicer stone for you!

 

[Imdanny]

...see what happens when you don't heed the advice of the purple caped crusader

ROTFL!

 

[PaulaGem]

A very educational thread... I just found this site as I was searching for a way to value a 1ct Paraiba that I bought in Tucson in the mid 90's. I know its provenance, but this thread shows why people would be reluctant to buy such a stone from an individual. At this point I don't know how to be sure that I am getting fair value as a seller. If anyone has any links to share I would appreciate it. I will just have to keep reading I guess.

 

[kelpie]

A very educational thread... I just found this site as I was searching for a way to value a 1ct Paraiba that I bought in Tucson in the mid 90's. I know its provenance, but this thread shows why people would be reluctant to buy such a stone from an individual. At this point I don't know how to be sure that I am getting fair value as a seller. If anyone has any links to share I would appreciate it. I will just have to keep reading I guess.

Paula, this thread should show that you always need a lab report that tests for copper. Does it have a lab report? I think an AGL prestige report would greatly improve the value if you're luckier than I am.

 

[LD]

A very educational thread... I just found this site as I was searching for a way to value a 1ct Paraiba that I bought in Tucson in the mid 90's. I know its provenance, but this thread shows why people would be reluctant to buy such a stone from an individual. At this point I don't know how to be sure that I am getting fair value as a seller. If anyone has any links to share I would appreciate it. I will just have to keep reading I guess.

Paula it's impossible to give you an accurate and fair value as (a) origin plays a part and would need a lab report to confirm, preferably from AGL (b) chemical composition i.e. does it qualify as a "paraiba" (c) colour which is absolutely critical (d) clarity then (e) cut.

I have a range of Paraiba Tourmalines (most have lab reports) ranging from 18ct to 1ct of varying quality. Some of the smaller ones have the better colour and clarity and so are worth more, per carat, than the ones with a less coveted colour or clarity but it's far to say the value range is vast. I would never (now) buy anything sold as a Paraiba Tourmaline unless it had a lab report and I had inspected it personally.

 

[Barrett]

Paula please post a pic, if possible, of your paraiba tourmaline. It's very intriguing that you purchased it in in the 90's. Not a better time to have bought a real deal and you just might have a good one. I would def. get an AGL prestige report as stated above.

 

[portoar]

To Kelpie and Gemsrock:

1) a stone was unequivocally stated to be a PARAIBA TOURMALINE with a "150%" guarantee.
2) a lab report determined the stone was not a Paraiba Tourmaline.
3) stone sent back to Gemsrock.
4) Gemsrock took delivery of the stone.
4) Gemsrock owes a full refund to Kelpie because the stone was not what it was stated to be.
5) the fact that the stone might have the same color as a Paraiba Tourmaline, or as a top color non-Paraiba Tourmaline might have close to the same value Kelpie paid for the stone is IRRELEVANT. The stone was sold as a PARAIBA TOURMALINE and this is what Kelpie contracted to receive. Not another type of tourmaline, or another stone that MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have an equivalent value.

NOTE to GEMSROCK: It is illegal to retain BOTH returned goods AND the money the buyer paid for those goods. If you accepted the return, if there is expert proof that the stone is not what you represented it to be (which you did), you owe Kelpie a refund. You misrepresented your agreement to refund her money, which has caused her harm, because you are creating delays so that Kelpie's remedies expire.

NOTE to KELPIE:

1) Get yourself to a place that has phone service and make a Paypal claim and an Ebay claim.
2) Concurrently, and more importantly, go to the FBI's website (or google internet fraud claim) and determine whether you should file a claim with the FBI for internet fraud. The facts here are pretty simple. Someone sold you a stone representing it to be something an expert determined it was not. You returned stone. Seller kept stone, agreed to refund, and did not.
3) You may also be able to look up postal fraud and pursue a complaint there, since this was a transaction that occurred over the mail.
3) Post negative feedback on Ebay.
4) If your plan of action is to wring your hands and not immediately take every recourse available to you, then just stop here and chalk it up to experience. I don't mean to sound harsh, because you have my utmost sympathy. I have also had to fight for refunds on poor quality merchandise, and I would not have waited as long as you did. The fact is, you have had plenty of time to reach the correct conclusion that Gemsrock has kept both your money and the stone.

NOTE TO EVERYONE:

There is only ONE issue here. The stone was unequivocally represented to be a Paraiba Tourmaline, when it was not. It was misrepresented goods.

Whether or not Gemsrock knew she was misrepresenting the stone is immaterial. It was misrepresented.
Whether the stone was already damaged at point of purchase or later in shipping is immaterial.
Whether the stone is worth a fraction of the purchase price or worth close to the purchase price because of its color is immaterial.
The value of the stone is immaterial because Kelpie did not receive what she contracted to buy.
That is the only fact that needs to be taken into consideration in determining whether Kelpie should receive a refund.

 

[kelpie]

Thank you, Portoar. The most viable remedies you mention for getting my money back have expired (read: running down time, you nailed it) but I am going to pursue the other avenues you suggested. You are correct on every front, thanks again.