Conned on ebay. I quit!

[pregcurious]

I agree with Portoar. Internet fraud is a federal offense that will go on someone's criminal record. That person will have a hard time passing any background checks for employment.

If someone bought a "diamond" off of Ebay, and it ended up being a white topaz, the seller should refund the buyer, even if the topaz is damaged by a third party. Everyone makes mistakes and poor judgement calls, but perpetuating them after one has realized said mistake is a bigger issue.

 

[loriken214]

WOW....I just read this whole thread and I'm toast! Whatever the reason for the refund delay, it is way past due and should be paid ASAP. Enough is enough...no more excuses.

I went through something like this earlier this year. I "bought" a watch online and paid in full for something I was shown that I was to receive. Then the excuses started as to why my watch couldn't be delivered. I demanded a refund immediately and they refused. I filed a claim with my credit card company and they made me wait 30 days, to allow the vendor to respond, and then I finally received a full refund after the 30 days were up. The vendor kept calling me afterward, to discuss the "misunderstanding," and I wouldn't answer the phone. They finally went away.

Hang in there Kelpie....big HUGS!

Lori

 

[portoar]

I want to clarify my comments. I'm suggesting you look up internet fraud on the FBI's website and on the US Postal Service's website to see whether your situation fits their definition of fraud and whether they might be an avenue of pursuit. I am not drawing the conclusion myself that what happened was fraud. I'm not an attorney, so I don't know. But it is clear that the seller violated the terms of a contractual agreement to exchange money for a Paraiba Tourmaline. And doubly so because she took possession of the stone she represented as Paraiba Tourmaline and kept the money that was paid for it.

 

[Laila619]

So sorry, Kelpie. How frustrating!!

 

[talamasca]

What a nightmare!!! I hope something can be done and you get your money returned

 

[SB621]

Kelpie,

I know sevearl that contacted ebay after their window had expired and were still able to file claims. Have they rejected whatever you have sent them or have you still not contacted them? Are you still able to leave negative feedback from RH on ebay?

 

[JewelFreak]

Keep on her, Kelpie. Don't give up!! All the legal violations are clear but this is also just plain WRONG on a personal, ethical level & burns us all up. There's enough dust coming your way to blow RH out of the water.

--- Laurie

 

[kelpie]

Kelpie,

I know sevearl that contacted ebay after their window had expired and were still able to file claims. Have they rejected whatever you have sent them or have you still not contacted them? Are you still able to leave negative feedback from RH on ebay?

I did get on the phone with them finally and they were no help on either count except that they might take action somehow against her selling privileges.

Get this....Latest development is trying to mail it back to me....like sending me the same bogus stone she sent in the first place somehow compensates me or entitles her to keep my money. Unbelievable. I already told my postmaster to refuse delivery and she posted her name and address on the wall like those people who write bad checks.

PS- My facebook friend, The Dalai Lama has some good advice for me today: Under certain circumstances, you may need to take steps to counteract someone else's wrongdoing, but it's better to do so without anger. That will be more effective, because when your mind is overwhelmed by a disturbing emotion like anger, the action you take may not be appropriate.

 

[Deia]

It's clear she doesn't have the money to refund you. That is her problem though, not yours. What she should have done and should be doing is letting you know she can't pay you pack all at once and pay you in installements. $800 is alot of money to most people and I'm sure you'd like to see it back.

I have no clue why sending you the stone back changes anything? What the hell is up with that?

Sorry you're going through this, it just seems like actions of a desperate person, which is saddening.

 

[Kismet]

Wow, so much for that 150% satisfaction guarantee. She's a piece of work.

 

[Aoife]

Get this....Latest development is trying to mail it back to me....like sending me the same bogus stone she sent in the first place somehow compensates me or entitles her to keep my money. Unbelievable. I already told my postmaster to refuse delivery and she posted her name and address on the wall like those people who write bad checks.

Just when I thought this couldn't get any more bizarre than it already is. What in heaven's name is RH thinking?

 

[pregcurious]

You can read about internet fraud here. You can file a complaint (link on right side of page) with the FBI to find out it fits their definition, but you'll see that they have "internet auction" as one of their items:

http://www.fbi.gov/scams-safety/fraud/internet_fraud

Kelpie, you should print everything electronically (to a .pdf) and on paper, including this thread on PS and the Ebay auction because it says it was a Paraiba. and this is the basis of your case. I have already printed pdfs of this thread (up to page 5, including RH's comments), and the Ebay auction, so if anything disappears before you can make pdfs, I will get these to you. You already have her message that she did not know it was not a cuprian, admitting guilt.

I am so sorry this happened to you. As an aside, I used to sell occasionally Ebay, and the USPS once lost an item (I had delivery tracking on it and it never showed delivery). I refunded the customer in full immediately and apologized for his not receiving the item. It is never the buyer's fault if the item is not as represented (seller's fault), or it does not get delivered without damage (fault of shipper or USPS).

 

[minmin001]

Kelpie,

I know sevearl that contacted ebay after their window had expired and were still able to file claims. Have they rejected whatever you have sent them or have you still not contacted them? Are you still able to leave negative feedback from RH on ebay?

I did get on the phone with them finally and they were no help on either count except that they might take action somehow against her selling privileges.

Get this....Latest development is trying to mail it back to me....like sending me the same bogus stone she sent in the first place somehow compensates me or entitles her to keep my money. Unbelievable. I already told my postmaster to refuse delivery and she posted her name and address on the wall like those people who write bad checks.

PS- My facebook friend, The Dalai Lama has some good advice for me today: Under certain circumstances, you may need to take steps to counteract someone else's wrongdoing, but it's better to do so without anger. That will be more effective, because when your mind is overwhelmed by a disturbing emotion like anger, the action you take may not be appropriate.

I've seen many news where people are broke and work 12hrs a day find money that doesn't belong to them and what do they do, turn it in! RH certainly doesn't have that kind of respect for herself and others for things that does not belong to her. Whatever she is doing is just unbelievable and will bite her back in the end.

 

[rosetta]

Oh my. So sorry this happened to you kelpie.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Kelpie,

Insurance is a protection against damage or loss. When you purchased the gemstone RH was fine with sending it to a lab for verification. This shows me she was not trying to defraud you. it shows an unprofessional approach to selling her stones. The stone was not as she described. She agreed to accept it back from you and to give you a refund. You must send her the stone back as she sent it to you or the lab. She says she did not reeive it back as she sent it to you. That is the transaction. The whole transaction.

If the stone was damaged you must file the claim with the postal service getting the imformation from AGL, who acted as your agent in sending the stone back to her. You show them (USPS) your receipt for payment for the stone, as you are the insurer.
It is not up to you to appraise the item, or evaluate the circumstances of this, or to decide it is fraudulent. Insurance protects you.

If I were RH I would not give you your money back until you agreed to file the claim. As she now knows she cant keep the money and the stone so she is returning the stone to you. She received it damaged. Let the post office determine if they will pay the claim.
Its completely beyond me why you insured the item if you aren't going to use the insurance.

All the speculation on fraud here is only that. Kelpie you will the loser here. And you certainly succeeded in ruining RHs reputation.
I do not know what the truth is. It is the USPS that should determine the legitimacy of the claim --not the herd on PS.

I want you to get you money back. Annette

 

[LD]

Hi Kelpie,

Insurance is a protection against damage or loss. When you purchased the gemstone RH was fine with sending it to a lab for verification. This shows me she was not trying to defraud you. it shows an unprofessional approach to selling her stones. The stone was not as she described. She agreed to accept it back from you and to give you a refund. You must send her the stone back as she sent it to you or the lab. She says she did not reeive it back as she sent it to you. That is the transaction. The whole transaction.

If the stone was damaged you must file the claim with the postal service getting the imformation from AGL, who acted as your agent in sending the stone back to her. You show them (USPS) your receipt for payment for the stone, as you are the insurer.
It is not up to you to appraise the item, or evaluate the circumstances of this, or to decide it is fraudulent. Insurance protects you.

If I were RH I would not give you your money back until you agreed to file the claim. As she now knows she cant keep the money and the stone so she is returning the stone to you. She received it damaged. Let the post office determine if they will pay the claim.
Its completely beyond me why you insured the item if you aren't going to use the insurance.

All the speculation on fraud here is only that. Kelpie you will the loser here. And you certainly succeeded in ruining RHs reputation.
I do not know what the truth is. It is the USPS that should determine the legitimacy of the claim --not the herd on PS.

I want you to get you money back. Annette

Annette I'm afraid you've got it wrong. Kelpie DID NOT send anything back to RH. She does not have a contract with the post office. Even if she did, the stone is now with RH. She has agreed to help RH but not until she's been refunded. Understandably as she doesn't have the $800 OR the stone now. With all of RH's promises and nothing coming to fruition, I don't see why Kelpie should put herself out any more than she already has. AGL shipped the stone back to RH and that's where the absurdity is because RH is wanting Kelpie to believe that AGL don't know how to securely send gemstones! Also, the stone was clearly damaged before all this and RH is trying to claim otherwise. See my photos that were on her Ebay auction and also Amguy's later investigation that proved the same thing.

 

[y2kitty]

Is it just me or does RockHugger's website not exist anymore?

 

[pregcurious]

Hi Kelpie,

Insurance is a protection against damage or loss. When you purchased the gemstone RH was fine with sending it to a lab for verification. This shows me she was not trying to defraud you. it shows an unprofessional approach to selling her stones. The stone was not as she described. She agreed to accept it back from you and to give you a refund. You must send her the stone back as she sent it to you or the lab. She says she did not reeive it back as she sent it to you. That is the transaction. The whole transaction.

If the stone was damaged you must file the claim with the postal service getting the imformation from AGL, who acted as your agent in sending the stone back to her. You show them (USPS) your receipt for payment for the stone, as you are the insurer.
It is not up to you to appraise the item, or evaluate the circumstances of this, or to decide it is fraudulent. Insurance protects you.

If I were RH I would not give you your money back until you agreed to file the claim. As she now knows she cant keep the money and the stone so she is returning the stone to you. She received it damaged. Let the post office determine if they will pay the claim.
Its completely beyond me why you insured the item if you aren't going to use the insurance.

All the speculation on fraud here is only that. Kelpie you will the loser here. And you certainly succeeded in ruining RHs reputation.
I do not know what the truth is. It is the USPS that should determine the legitimacy of the claim --not the herd on PS.

I want you to get you money back. Annette

Annette I'm afraid you've got it wrong. Kelpie DID NOT send anything back to RH. She does not have a contract with the post office. Even if she did, the stone is now with RH. She has agreed to help RH but not until she's been refunded. Understandably as she doesn't have the $800 OR the stone now. With all of RH's promises and nothing coming to fruition, I don't see why Kelpie should put herself out any more than she already has. AGL shipped the stone back to RH and that's where the absurdity is because RH is wanting Kelpie to believe that AGL don't know how to securely send gemstones! Also, the stone was clearly damaged before all this and RH is trying to claim otherwise. See my photos that were on her Ebay auction and also Amguy's later investigation that proved the same thing.

Kelpie did not send anything back to RH--the lab did after finding out it was not copper-bearing. The stone was not a Paraiba as claimed by the seller, and not even a cuprian. I agree that a "herd on PS" cannot judge whether fraud has actually happened. We have suggested that Kelpie get the FBI involved to determine if it was internet fraud because that is their jurisdiction, and they specifically cover internet auction fraud.

This whole thing scares me off of buying off of Ebay. Who can you trust on Ebay if you can't even trust a PSer with 100% feedback on Ebay? Kelpie, you were so smart to have the stone sent to a lab. Thank you for contributing your experience to PS.

 

[MissStepcut]

Hi Kelpie,

Insurance is a protection against damage or loss. When you purchased the gemstone RH was fine with sending it to a lab for verification. This shows me she was not trying to defraud you. it shows an unprofessional approach to selling her stones. The stone was not as she described. She agreed to accept it back from you and to give you a refund. You must send her the stone back as she sent it to you or the lab. She says she did not reeive it back as she sent it to you. That is the transaction. The whole transaction.

If the stone was damaged you must file the claim with the postal service getting the imformation from AGL, who acted as your agent in sending the stone back to her. You show them (USPS) your receipt for payment for the stone, as you are the insurer.
It is not up to you to appraise the item, or evaluate the circumstances of this, or to decide it is fraudulent. Insurance protects you.

If I were RH I would not give you your money back until you agreed to file the claim. As she now knows she cant keep the money and the stone so she is returning the stone to you. She received it damaged. Let the post office determine if they will pay the claim.
Its completely beyond me why you insured the item if you aren't going to use the insurance.

All the speculation on fraud here is only that. Kelpie you will the loser here. And you certainly succeeded in ruining RHs reputation.
I do not know what the truth is. It is the USPS that should determine the legitimacy of the claim --not the herd on PS.

I want you to get you money back. Annette

It would be unethical and likely illegal to make a claim on a stone for the purchase price after it's been shown not to be valued at the purchase price. Anyone who recommends Kelpie do this does not have her best interest at heart.

You're right that speculations as to fraud are only speculative... until Kelpie acts. Then SHE is the one attempting to defraud the insurer.

 

[Pandora II]

It would be unethical and likely illegal to make a claim on a stone for the purchase price after it's been shown not to be valued at the purchase price. Anyone who recommends Kelpie do this does not have her best interest at heart.

You're right that speculations as to fraud are only speculative... until Kelpie acts. Then SHE is the one attempting to defraud the insurer.

The problem there is that the stone is quite possibly worth the amount paid - as a non-Cu bearing tourmaline of that size and colour. Had it been copper-bearing, of that colour and from Paraiba, Brazil it would have been worth a whole lot more.

In general though, an insurance company will only refund the vendor the original cost of the stone - which they will need to provide receipts to show.

 

[FrekeChild]

This makes me think of TGal's first pad. I don't know if you guys remember that, but here is a brief outline.

Richard Wise sold TGal a pad, guaranteed it was such.
TGal had it sent to a lab
The pad came back as being BE-treated (I believe, it's been a couple years)
Richard was appalled and immediately refunded TGal's money, and proceeded to go after his source
Don't know what happened with Richard and his source

HOWEVER, this is what happened AFTER that:

TGal bought a second pad from Richard Wise
This one was tested by the same lab
Came back as 100% natural, and everything Richard said it was
She had NOTHING but good things to say about him and his services

TA-DA! The Amelia ring was created.


See the difference in customer service? This is what this thread should have been like, if the seller had been reputable.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

This was mentioned here before on this thread but I am going to mention it again. Take it back to Paypal. I was able to recover money 3 months after a claim period expired. I waited to have a diamond appraised until I had acquired enough stones to spend an hour with the appraiser. The diamond was significantly less weight then stated. I notified the vendor who laughed at me and told me no refund and said I would never get my money back from Paypal. Gave it a whirl anyway and I did get my money back. If you haven't tried please do this. Good luck.

 

[that_someone_special]

Get this....Latest development is trying to mail it back to me....like sending me the same bogus stone she sent in the first place somehow compensates me or entitles her to keep my money. Unbelievable. I already told my postmaster to refuse delivery and she posted her name and address on the wall like those people who write bad checks.

Just when I thought this couldn't get any more bizarre than it already is. What in heaven's name is RH thinking?

She is just flippin nuts.

 

[Addnamehere]

Stone was returned to keplie yesterday because she has refused to forward me any information about a claim with AGL or USPS. I am not going to keep the stone as at this point it does not belong to me. I accept returns if returned in the same condition as it is sent out. This is obviously not the case with this stone, so I am refusing the return. I offered to help with the claim, but kelpie refused, so she can handle it on her own. The claim amount through USPS or AGL would never cross my hands anyway because I am not the shipper. It would automatically go to kelpie as I explained to her.

Insurance exsists for this very reason. The concern about the stone being insured for more the its value is bogus. Because I am not the owner of the stone, or the shipper, it would cover the purchase price kelpie paid. As far as its value, shortly after this thread started its sister stone (less saturation and slightly smaller) sold for 750.00 as a non cuprian afghan tourmaline (I sent that one to GIA after this ordeal). So the value of that stone is completely in line with the insurance amount. There is no reason not to file a claim with AGL (who packaged the stone so poorly, causing damage) or USPS, and I honestly am at a loss as of why keplie has not other then bogus excuses and accusations that are completely unwarented. And the fact she refuses to file (or has but has not disclosed) makes me uncomfortable of her intentions. Because I am a 3d party with no rights to the claim money, there is no protection to me if I refund her the money first, and she refuses to forward the claim money (aka pockets it) to me or does not file a claim at all.

As far as these accusations (I only skimmed the thread) of the stone being sent to her cracked. I honestly think if it was cracked as much as it is now when I sent it to her in the first place, that would have been the first email I would have received. I have not heard from kelpie about any crack in the stone, or is it in the AGL photo. I know of every inclusion by memory and microscopic image that was in that stone before it was sent out.

And as asked above, yes my website is down for the moment. Ironically the attempt to 'ruin my reputation' increased traffic and my stock has been sold. It will be down for the next few weeks until I restock then listed back up. My customers have been informed of this.

Kelpie, if you do not accept the stone or packaging, that is your own choice. It has been sent back to you, so you can file the claim (like I said, I cannot do this because I am not the shipper or under contract with AGL).

This is all I will say about this subject from here on out. Good luck.

 

[y2kitty]

And as asked above, yes my website is down for the moment. Ironically the attempt to 'ruin my reputation' increased traffic and my stock has been sold. It will be down for the next few weeks until I restock then listed back up. My customers have been informed of this.

Hey you should have the money to refund kelpie then!

 

[kelpie]

This was mentioned here before on this thread but I am going to mention it again. Take it back to Paypal. I was able to recover money 3 months after a claim period expired. I waited to have a diamond appraised until I had acquired enough stones to spend an hour with the appraiser. The diamond was significantly less weight then stated. I notified the vendor who laughed at me and told me no refund and said I would never get my money back from Paypal. Gave it a whirl anyway and I did get my money back. If you haven't tried please do this. Good luck.

That is really encouraging, Lisa. I didn't realize you recovered after that long. Thank you so much!

 

[LD]

What a piece of work you are RH. So basically your 150% guarantee is non-existant. Your stance now is that it's not your stone?

I sincerely hope Kelpie goes after you and reports you to the FBI and everybody else because sellers like you give genuine hardworking sellers a bad name. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

Oh well, what goes around, comes around.

 

[lavatea]

Stone was returned to keplie yesterday because she has refused to forward me any information about a claim with AGL or USPS. I am not going to keep the stone as at this point it does not belong to me. I accept returns if returned in the same condition as it is sent out. This is obviously not the case with this stone, so I am refusing the return. I offered to help with the claim, but kelpie refused, so she can handle it on her own. The claim amount through USPS or AGL would never cross my hands anyway because I am not the shipper. It would automatically go to kelpie as I explained to her.

Insurance exsists for this very reason. The concern about the stone being insured for more the its value is bogus. Because I am not the owner of the stone, or the shipper, it would cover the purchase price kelpie paid. As far as its value, shortly after this thread started its sister stone (less saturation and slightly smaller) sold for 750.00 as a non cuprian afghan tourmaline (I sent that one to GIA after this ordeal). So the value of that stone is completely in line with the insurance amount. There is no reason not to file a claim with AGL (who packaged the stone so poorly, causing damage) or USPS, and I honestly am at a loss as of why keplie has not other then bogus excuses and accusations that are completely unwarented. And the fact she refuses to file (or has but has not disclosed) makes me uncomfortable of her intentions. Because I am a 3d party with no rights to the claim money, there is no protection to me if I refund her the money first, and she refuses to forward the claim money (aka pockets it) to me or does not file a claim at all.

As far as these accusations (I only skimmed the thread) of the stone being sent to her cracked. I honestly think if it was cracked as much as it is now when I sent it to her in the first place, that would have been the first email I would have received. I have not heard from kelpie about any crack in the stone, or is it in the AGL photo. I know of every inclusion by memory and microscopic image that was in that stone before it was sent out.

And as asked above, yes my website is down for the moment. Ironically the attempt to 'ruin my reputation' increased traffic and my stock has been sold. It will be down for the next few weeks until I restock then listed back up. My customers have been informed of this.

Kelpie, if you do not accept the stone or packaging, that is your own choice. It has been sent back to you, so you can file the claim (like I said, I cannot do this because I am not the shipper or under contract with AGL).

This is all I will say about this subject from here on out. Good luck.

This is the only sentence in the whole post that makes any sense to me. HOWEVER, you, as the seller, should assume this risk IMO. You have the stone, even if damaged, so you could at least sell it for something to recoup your loss if kelpie turned out to be a bad buyer that would not give you the insurance amount - if the post office or AGL or whoever even deemed the claim credible and paid an amount out.

Playing these games of holding kelpie's refund hostage contingent on an insurance pay out and shipping a stone she does not want to her is just ridiculous. But I'm sure you'll be able to go on conning people on ebay as most of the consumer public probably won't see this thread.

 

[TravelingGal]

This makes me think of TGal's first pad. I don't know if you guys remember that, but here is a brief outline.

Richard Wise sold TGal a pad, guaranteed it was such.
TGal had it sent to a lab
The pad came back as being BE-treated (I believe, it's been a couple years)
Richard was appalled and immediately refunded TGal's money, and proceeded to go after his source
Don't know what happened with Richard and his source

HOWEVER, this is what happened AFTER that:

TGal bought a second pad from Richard Wise
This one was tested by the same lab
Came back as 100% natural, and everything Richard said it was
She had NOTHING but good things to say about him and his services

TA-DA! The Amelia ring was created.


See the difference in customer service? This is what this thread should have been like, if the seller had been reputable.

Actually, it came back as synthetic. And yes, I really did have a great experience with Richard. Top notch.

I've been reading this thread, and just was hoping for the best. But it doesn't surprise me. I once called RH (to her face, I believe, but I think maybe that post was deleted) that she was either the craziest (or most infuriating) poster I had ever encountered on Pricescope. I think she was the only PSer I've ever directly insulted in that way. I may even have said delusional, but as I said before, my memory is not the best.

It was because her sense of reality seemed entirely twisted to suit her own purposes, without listening to a word anyone else said, no matter how rational. How sad for Kelpie that it seems this extends to her business practices as well. I thought she seemed like she had come a long way, but apparently my initial instinct of her had merit.

I'm so sorry Kelpie.

 

[Hera]

I am so sorry this has happened to you.

I would also consider going to individual complaint websites and make public complaints in the hope that people will see it if they google her ebay screen name.