Couple uses guns to protect daughter

[kenny]

Don't annoy Americans with facts.
They only paying attention to FEAR of what might happen.

(I am an American.)

Fear rules. Reason drools.
Hence guns and religion.

 

[redwood66]

Since we're posting pics/cartoons we feel pertain to the conversation.

 

[nkarma]

Since we're posting pics/cartoons we feel pertain to the conversation.

Do you have any stats on how armed the people of those countries under those tyrants? I actually don't.

I know you are not intending this but your conjecture that the holocaust would not have happened had the Jewish people been armed is completely offensive and untrue. Whole armed governments with strong military (e.g. Poland, Austria, France, etc....) were defeated by the Nazis. It took the allies over 4 years to defeat them, so if a few more private citizens had guns I am sure a few more Nazis would have died, but the genocide would have been the same. This is not only because the Nazis had a very strong military, but they were also persecuting a small minority with unenthusiastic consent of the majority.

Our forefathers mentioned in the constitution the best military technology of the time, arms. Besides having the largest and best trained military to this time in history, the US govt also has several defense organizations (CIA, FBI) that are spying on all of us. There have been some new developments in warfare since 1776...some of these include drones, nuclear bombs, biological weapons, etc...

 

[aljdewey]

This cartoon could as easily be retitled for what's going on in Iraq right now; one side is assassinating in the name of 'ethnic cleansing", and the casualties on the civilian side are prolific because the armies (citizens) collapsed and disarmed themselves. Result: Mass executions of civilians. Tyrants 0, Civilians......well, pretty much like your cartoon.

I saw yesterday that civilians are stepping in to volunteer as replacement armies, and since they are now fighting back, there has been a slowing of the advance onto Baghdad.

 

[VRBeauty]

My father is a strong gun rights advocate in part because of his experiences in WWII. In his country, people were allowed to own guns but they had to be registered with the local police. When Japan invaded, the invading soldiers used these lists to force the citizens to surrender their guns and to ensure that they got them all - so the local populace was effectively unable to defend itself against the invaders. Would locals having their guns have changed the outcome of the war? Maybe not, but it might have changed how the war affected some villages and individual families. It might have slowed the invasion and allowed counter-insurgencies to mount better defenses. In any event, the point I'm making is that it's not as simple as the cartoon and poster would indicate.

Note I am not defending the gun rights organizations. I do think they're part of the problem because they cut off all debate about what sort of controls might be reasonable... They turn any discussion of control into a mantra that the government is going to seize all of your guns, and target any politician who dares even mention discussing ways to reduce gun violence.

 

[aljdewey]

VR - in this, we are extremely like minded.

I've said before that I think the black/white, all-or-nothing extremes do more to prevent progress and improvements, and I do believe a good portion of the rhetoric from groups like the NRA fall into that bucket.

It's clear that the "ban them all" and the "no restrictions at all" crowds are not going to contribute to workable solutions; I just hope the middle-of-the-roaders have the fortitude to push against both sides a bit to craft reasonable action plans.

 

[redwood66]

One more time I will state my position on this and then I am done because this is going nowhere. I am all for any solution that does not include amending the Constition or the Bill of Rights. The founding fathers intended to limit the control of government, they not mean just for 200 years and then "oh we are so advanced we can trust the government now" States have the right to govern as they see fit with the approval of the populace, ones who do not agree with it can move, which is exactly what I did.

The US has had our own terrible points in history but it took people standing up to make change - civil rights is an example.

VR stated the exact reason I am against any type of registration list for firearms. I pass a background check and that is enough to show that I am allowed to own a weapon. Communities need to look to themselves for ways to control the violence around them. As far as mass shootings by crazed lunatics it is extremely sad and I have no answer for that other than gun control will not stop it in the US.

nkarma Hitler removed the weapons from all Germans under the guise of safety for the children. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights would not allow this unless those documents are amended by people who don't understand or agree with the reason they exist in the first place.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,


I am resurrecting this post to show something I learned as I was looking up shootings in a very crime ridden area in Chicago..

I was in no way trying to be condescending to you, I thought you were doing that to me. So don't take the following in any other way except to show that there are other responses to something similar to what I suggested.

Senator Mark kirk of Il. was concerned about crime in this particular high crime gang infested area. The Police Commissioner took Senator Kirk around and a gang shooting occurred on this trip. (May 2013)

Senator Kirk and Senator Durbin put together a plan with the new US attorney, the FBI, the ATF,, the DEA and CPD to go after the gangs in this area. The plan was to do mass arrests of the gang members(18,000) involving all the above agencies. Headlines--

Enter Rep Bobby Rush who lambasted these plans calling Senator Mark Kirk--An upper middleclass white person who knew nothing of the needs of his neighborhood and put a quash on those plans. I would have preferred you calling me the above, A mass roundup of 18,000 criminals was also Oked by Rohm Emanual, the mayor, except that he sided with REp. Rush saying these people need jobs as well, which is the summit they just had after the death of the three yr old whose death really did get to my heart strings. Sen Kirk and Rep Rush have
put their differences aside.

Bobby Rush is an ex Black Panther who is not helping his neighborhood. Mass arrests are not in the cards because a white man suggested them. Not because of the Constitution. There are legal ways to go after this. I can't say I know them


Since I try to present a fair picture I will end by stating that Chicago has gun control. It doesn't work here.

Redwood, I'm sorry if I offended you. I do like to look for solutions, that is how I am. I feel better knowing we had 2 senators that did try.


Annette

If you search Sen Mark Kirk vs Rep Bobby Rush, you can read the highlights

 

[redwood66]

I appreciate that info Annette. It is disheartening that elected officials would not do what might help their constituents to have safer neighborhoods. But it seems most politicians are liars and scumbags anyway. Bunch of lawyers that could not manage a real job so they run for office.

Term limits!!!!!

 

[Rhea]

Anyway I'm probably not helping anyone by participating in this thread.
I don't live in the US.
I do feel a 'social responsibility' to the people of the US and to the children of the US, though, as I would to any other people and children of the world.
I also worry about the US gun culture being a 'bad influence' on the nutters that we have, I would hate to see any school invasions over here.

Honestly, since living outside the US and looking in I see inter-US gun violence the same way my friends in the US see inter-gang violence. They're killing each other. And it happens so often that it's seldom reported in this country. If it is, the report starts in such a chilling way, "And in other news today, there's been another..." I tune out.

Have at it.