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Diamond Brokers of Florida Trashing Pricescope

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Nope. Diamondbrokersofflorida used to post here too a while ago. Not anymore. If anyone can explain, it's them...

Thanks for pointing to that one
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Guess' I'm either a "shill" or "armchair expert" according to the insinuating posts. Well, can't really decide which to choose yet
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There are people who do have a bone to pick with Pricescope as pricescope has cost some of them some business (this is not the worst I have seen either).

However, and in this case I think that they do raise a point. I should also mention that the same point applies to diamond talk.

Who are you getting your advice from? This forum consist of people who range from very knowlegable to absolute novices. It is a common problem of human nature that people may not understand how much or how little they actually know.

As such, people on this and other forums may recommend or not recommend something based on their personal knowledge and biases; and these recommendations can be far from the actual truth.

This is one of the reasons I do not get into the recomendations on specific diamonds unless it is obviously really really bad. I don''t know enough to really say - other than point out that an IdealScope image is good or not so good compared to Garry''s charts.

My best advice is to really study the tutorial information, a couple of times, learn about the IdealScope, and the HCA (and their limitations).

Then, armed with that knowledge look for your diamond. While you can ask for advice, please be aware that while there are some real experts here, there are also some real dodo''s as well (just as in any other forum). Number of post, or classification may not differentiat either.

If you are unwilling to learn about the issues relating to cut and want a good looking diamond: I then recommend that you go straight to NiceIce or Good Old Gold who only stock excellent looking diamonds. The Whiteflash "A Cut Above" line, and the "Supperbcert" line are also great. Everything else will require you to learn, and learn who to trust and not to trust on this or any forum.

Perry
 
Hi Lurchie,

You can do a search and find there are several threads regarding Diamond Talk and it''s pretty easy to get the drift (so not sure it needs to be revisited from that perspective).

I am new too but I will say in direct response to that DT thread that the "gentleman" on Diamond Talk should consider that the consumers he says he is trying to protect are the same consumers he is offending by assuming the majority of us don''t know what we are doing or are naive in our research and purchases.

I certainly don''t think I am stepping into a "pool of sharks" on here! But , I agree with Perry that as with any forum you can get good advice and bad and the same can be said over on DT.

I take huge offense to what he is saying about my ability to disseminate who is qualified to advise me on diamonds and who is simply giving me an opinion and as such he will always lose me as a customer because of that. What a shame I will never get to see his diamonds.

I am just pleased that other vendors such as Whiteflash seem able to co-exist on both forums posting positively and not spending time negatively trashing others. Perhaps that gentleman should consider that as consumers we should be afforded the same privilege and be allowed to post on both forums without being criticized for it or have our judgement questions. He only serves to trash himself in that regard.

There, that''s my rant over
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Date: 1/16/2005 132 PM
Author: perry

This forum consist of people who range from very knowlegable to absolute novices. It is a common problem of human nature that people may not understand how much or how little they actually know.

As such, people on this and other forums may recommend or not recommend something based on their personal knowledge and biases; and these recommendations can be far from the actual truth.
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Great point ! Thanks. This makes "armchair expert" sound much nicer.

I think non-experts like you and I are all that more entitled to keep posting opinions since these come with no commercial interest attached. Sellers (DBOF included of course) can''t claim to be that unbiased.
Perhaps we don''t know as much as professionals do. But different opinions and tastes put together must mean allot. There are many "forums" set up on sellers'' sites for the public to post questions - and these expert-only forums are mostly dead... thick on the ground. Proof that surfers do recognize sellers'' bias and even how. No reason to believe the same surfers do not second-guess at leats as well how much or how little my unprofessional posts are worth. So I''ll keep up that 0.2 worth IMO and let everyone do with it as they democratically please. My pleasure, really.

There''s allot of PS that involves no expert intervention and no opinions about diamonds about to be sold - if anyone could "indoctrinate" the average opinion on diamonds here, what about the rest? This forum would have went down a long time ago if it was any more biased than everyday grapevine is. Same for DT, IMO.
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''nuff on this one from me...
 
Ana:

You are of course right that a range of personal opionins do mean a lot - especially on certain issues.

I am also sorry if I came off a little "cold" on the way I phrased the situation.

There are "Armchair Experts" who really are indeed experts.

There are "Armchair Experts" who know very little - but sound like they do because they think that they do.

The key for any forum user is to take the time to learn enough about the issue (in this case diamonds) to be able to sense who seems to really know what they are talking about, and use the information accordingly.

Recomendations from other forum members may or may not be good as those recomendations may lead to someone who is popular, but not the most knowlagable versus someone who is a little rough or unpopular due to presentation style (to say the least) but very knowledgable.

This is the situation with any forum, and every forum could have post made against it along the same vein as the DT post for precisely this reason.

The other qualtiy of forum participants is understanding the give and take and that you may not always write as clearly as is in your head so that others can understand.

In the case of Pricescope, it helps grately that industry experts do indeed participate on the forum and can identify themselves and their businesses. I once particpated on a forum where participation of industry experts was discuraged and where no one could identify themselves (I eventually withdrew as the restrictions got tighter and tighter to the point of outright censorship - even though I was one of the experts on a subject and helped a lot of people - even the Mfr''s of the equipement I posted on recognized that - and my archived post are still being referred to).

I do in fact welcome all participants - that is what makes the PriceScope forum so good, and the range of opinons forces me to think about issues and ideas that I never would have seen otherwise.

Peace between us, and all.

Perry
 
I spend almost all of my time on PS. Once in a while I look at the other board. What turns me off on ANY board is when people start bashing and when negativity is propagated. It really turns me off... there is too much of it in the world, and I don''t need my leisure time to be filled with negative attacks.

I choose a vendor based on information and professionalism. If a vendor spends a majority of his/ her time bashing others, I loose respect and trust. Firey threads attacking another vendor or site do not sit well with me in any venue. One can communicate dissatisfaction in a professional manner without throwing barbs. It is also interesting that the thread sited is almost entirely one poster. It also makes me wonder what a business is hiding when it "dost protest" so much.

By the way, aren''t boards such as these supposed to be an open exchange of information... meaning that people from expert to newbie are allowed to participate? I think that most non-experts clarify their status in their posts, no?
 
I personally have gained a lot from both the PS and DT forums. But, when one takes to mud slinging the other, regardless of whether any of the statements are even minutely based in fact, it really just rubs me the wrong way. In this particular case, the slinger over at DT has done nothing but put a giant black mark next to his name in my book.
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Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
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DiamondLil
 
The thoughtfulness and cool-headedness of your responses speak volumes. Having lurked on PS for some months, it is relatively easy to figure out who is a bona fide expert and who is just in it for the love of beautiful things...with the exception of Ana who had me completely fooled! (Not that you have been passing yourself off as a professional - you just sound like one!)

Funny thing is that was my first foray on to DT and it may be my last. With the exception of an occasional rant, most of which are more amusing than offensive, the posters here are awfully good natured.
 
HI:

I am thankful for PS participants using any and all sources of knowledge, from what I''ve seen include : disciplined research, logical reasoning, trial and error, intuition, expertise/authority, tradition/custom and personal experience.
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And I am also thankful for the latitude given each of us to post opinions/information, whereby understanding we can take what we want and leave the rest. Sad however, folks like DBOF that in trashing PS participants, clearly do not grasp this very simple tenet.

cheers--Sharon
 
Date: 1/16/2005 6:20:24 PM
Author: canuk-gal
HI:

I am thankful for PS participants using any and all sources of knowledge, from what I''ve seen include : disciplined research, logical reasoning, trial and error, intuition, expertise/authority, tradition/custom and personal experience.
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And I am also thankful for the latitude given each of us to post opinions/information, whereby understanding we can take what we want and leave the rest. Sad however, folks like DBOF that in trashing PS participants, clearly do not grasp this very simple tenet.

cheers--Sharon
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Ditto. And I think most PS posters are pretty good about qualifying their knowledge and advise -- even in the example post.

One of the reasons that there is a short list of vendors here is that personal recommendations tend to begget more personal experiences and recommendations, and it can become a natural circle. I''m sure there are other good vendors out there, but without some sort of a starting presence here i.e. a referring customer or credible and helpful vendor involvement in the forum, how would anyone here have enough info to make recommendations. No one on PS has ever said the the standard vendors are the ONLY vendors to buy from. They just seem to be the ones people here have had good experiences with and will personally recommend. Additionally, that overall ethics and manner of doing business are part of the equation when making recommendations, not just the quality of the merchandise. Based on this rant, I guess some people just don''t seem to think this is important.
 
well, i for one, am somewhat
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and a little
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..........
it is sad (and for me,
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) to see someone resort to this kind of behavior. the previous posts all (so eloquently) summed up the whole vision of ps and why it works. i am personally grateful to have found such an interesting, educational, and fun place to be. i didn''t know about dt until now, and after seeing that series of posts
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, i''m glad i never did. i enjoy my time on ps and the people here and look forward to gaining even more knowledge and sharing it as well.........

peace
 
Belle:

It is indeed unfortunate that you were used as the example on the DT post.

However, if it makes you feel any better
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you are in good company.

Diamond Brokers of Florida has a longstanding grip with Garry Holloway (Cut Nut) on the HCA and IdealScope as well, nor is this their first series of post against PriceScope or people/issues on PriceScope.

I am not sure all who are in the exclusive class of PriceScope DBOF "Selecties..." But you are in with Garry, and with Leonid.

Perhaps someone can assemble a full list of people that DBOF feels are such bad examples here.

Personally, I think you are in good company.
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Smile
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Perry
 
It's all very old story started 4+ years ago: Price comparison accuracy and more…. (I wonder how long DT will keep this thread in archives).

More food for thoughts: Publications in JCK Magazine:
Internet sites may be undercutting retailers
Pricescope: friend or foe?

Quotes:

“Roshto is upset about pricescope.com, a site that compares diamond prices for consumers on sites like dirtcheapdiamonds.com and jewelryzone.com. Roshto says that most of the companies selling on pricescope.com simply use listings from Polygon’s CertNet and RapNet – which retailers use as well.”
….
“Sometimes you try and sell a stone to a customer and the customer comes in two weeks later with the exact same stone for 2% over cost,” he says. “There is no way a retailer can survive on that kind of margin. A lot of business is flying out the door because of it.”


Some folks are rather negative.
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As Rank Armature wrote: "Paranoia will destroy ya".

We just have to keep swimming
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FindingNemo1.jpg
 
Our pool of sharks also has pretty little sparkly fish!
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Brad is a broken, played out record about this Pscope stuff. Honestly, I don't know why he thinks those types of posts help his cause one bit, esp since he is the only one responding to his thread!!
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I would venture to say that any advice given on Pscope is only that...advice, and I would NEVER solely take someone's advice when spending thousands on a stone. I would do the additional research and reading up on my own as well to know if I am making an educated decision...but you don't need to do only one or the other, that is the beauty of an open forum like a Pscope.
 
there is another thread entitled "consumer alert" on DT - have you seen that? I haven't been around this forum long enough to know all the history with this vendor and pricescope...
what is the story with this vendor and why he dislikes pricescope so much? Personally I like this site much better than diamond talk and I always try to take everything with a grain of salt. I think many people on this site are genuinely helpful with their advice, that doesn't mean some bad advice isn't given at times, whether unintentionally or not.... but that is why it's important for consumers to do a lot of their own homework too.
 
Date: 1/16/2005 10:29:10 PM
Author: TL1
there is another thread entitled ''consumer alert'' on DT - have you seen that?
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The "Consumer Alert" thread is an old one. The one being discussed here is a new one.

I *HAVE* been around forever and I *DO* know the vendor (Brad). I am sure Brad is right that some of the advice here is given by amateurs and equally sure that some vendors have masqueraded as consumers once or twice. But Brad also knows that the same is true of Diamond Talk. He and I have *DISCUSSED* which vendors posting to Diamond Talk had aliases. (This was not recent!)

Deborah, an amateur who likes to give advice :-)
 
AGBF - I am sure he has some valid points, amateurs giving opinions etc., but my point was that the consumer has a some responsibility as well in doing some research on their own and not blindly accepting an anonymous poster''s opinion. And as you stated, the same thing occurs on diamondtalk.

By the way I was concerned about the comment made on the most recent thread about vendor''s saturating idealscope images to any color they please - this is very concerning to me as a consumer since we are using these tools to base our decisions on, and this seems fraudulent.

Obviously i have no idea who he was implying does this, or whether there is any validity to his claims, but it is very concerning to read nonetheless.
 
Date: 1/17/2005 1
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6:11 AM
Author: TL1
AGBF - I am sure he has some valid points, amateurs giving opinions etc., but my point was that the consumer has a some responsibility as well in doing some research on their own and not blindly accepting an anonymous poster''s opinion. And as you stated, the same thing occurs on diamondtalk.

By the way I was concerned about the comment made on the most recent thread about vendor''s saturating idealscope images to any color they please - this is very concerning to me as a consumer since we are using these tools to base our decisions on, and this seems fraudulent.

Obviously i have no idea who he was implying does this, or whether there is any validity to his claims, but it is very concerning to read nonetheless.
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TL1,
You can make sure that the images are accurate by:
1. having an independant appraiser look at your stone within the return period
2. Purchasing your own scope to look at the diamond

A vendor would be very stupid to enhance an image when they know that a consumer could check it themselves. If fraud were a problem, I would think that we would have many posts exposing this as a good majority of PSers have their diamonds appraised afterward and many own their own scopes.
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Date: 1/16/2005 4:43:46 PM
Author: Lurchie
Funny thing is that was my first foray on to DT and it may be my last. With the exception of an occasional rant, most of which are more amusing than offensive, the posters here are awfully good natured.
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Lurchie, welcome to Pricescope! I believe the success in any forum is ultimately determined by the moderator(s). Leonid runs a very clean forum with no surprise rules that change as they go. That, in my observation and experience, was one of the problems I saw with DT. If the moderator was having a bad day, you could get swept out with the dust. The rules changed for different vendors. One day they didn't allow self promotion, the next day a vendor could sell their souls to the
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and it would be OK with them. You just never knew.

Like DEb, I have done business with Brad. He had been professional in my dealings with him. I had trouble with my ring, and again, he was professional in trying to rectify the situation. Lately though, I don't know what's going on with him. He's been resorting to behavior which I would only consider more harmful to his business than helpful. As he is not the owner nor the moderator of DT, why should he be caring so much about what goes on here at Pricescope?? The bashing of this site really turns me off
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especially when Leonid runs such a great site and is not plagued by rules that change with the wind.
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Date: 1/16/2005 9
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3:21 PM
Author: leonid

Let’s just keep swimming
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Hey Leonid that is my favoritest movie, and Dory is my Idol.
She has no memory so can not deliberately do harmful or revengeful things. I wish I could be more like her.
She also is the supreme optimist - and her optimism overcomes all fear (because she never remebrs bad stuff she is virtually free of fear).

And what a lovely bright and happy image.

I hope that Brad and Jan can overcome their fear and loathing before it affects their health.
 
Date: 1/17/2005 2:13:41 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 1/16/2005 9
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3:21 PM
Author: leonid

Let’s just keep swimming
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Hey Leonid that is my favoritest movie, and Dory is my Idol.
She has no memory so can not deliberately do harmful or revengeful things. I wish I could be more like her.
She also is the supreme optimist - and her optimism overcomes all fear (because she never remebrs bad stuff she is virtually free of fear).

And what a lovely bright and happy image.

I hope that Brad and Jan can overcome their fear and loathing before it affects their health.
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Amen Garry. I love Dory too.
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Now keep swimming!!!!
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Date: 1/16/2005 9
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0:18 PM
Author: Feydakin
Brad can be somewhat less than politically correct when it comes to defending what he thinks is right and wrong.. While his points are expressed on a very loud and agressive manner, it doesn't mean that they are totally without merit..
This is why you will never see me answering diamond questions
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He's like "the boy who cried wolf" at this point. I don't listen to a thing he says. Honestly, I've said it before - if he put 1/2 the energies into building his own business instead of tearing down other elements, he would be more successful. Instead, he alienates people. Life doesn't begin or end on PS. I doubt that I am in the minority of people who recommend diamonds/diamond sites off of PS to acquantances and friends. Diamond Brokers Of Florida is not on my recommended list because of the patronizing, paranoid persona that has become Brad. I'm just one voice - but one who cost some commerce.

And, just as much bunk is tossed about on DT as well. This paranoia is really getting old. I was kicked off of DT & accused of being a shill vendor. Please - I'm just a dopey middle aged consumer. To add - a consumer who spends money. Talk about biting the very hand that feeds you.
 
Leonid has a good memory! Watch what you say!
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There''s a little green man in my head!
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I think it was Yogi Berra who said, "That place is so popular that nobody goes there any more."
 
I am not a member of DT--I prefer Pscope for many reasons, not the least of which is that i find this site more visually appealing
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.

I have checked them out a few times, though, and have seen the anti-Pscope threads. What disturbs me the most about these posts is that their tone is borderline ranting--if you have a legitimate comment, express it with some intelligence, but sounding like a lunatic really doesn't help the validity of your argument.

The sad thing is that DiamondBrokersOfFlorida and the people there may be great jewelers and good people (I don't doubt it) but as an outsider reading their postings, they come of as a a couple of jealsous psychopaths--not really enocuraging to me as a reader. And I am not a stickler for numbers and a big believer in the eye providign the final judgement in a diamond--so to turn me off is quite a feat! Somehow, here on pscope, we all seem to get along.
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And as for people giving bogus advice--I tink 99.9% of the people here make it clear what their level of expertise and understanding is--and their position of numbers analysis/cut quality.
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I have just recently found pricescope in my search for info on a local B & M that I was looking into purchasing from.  I have began educating myself on all the various topics trying to gain as much knowledge and info as I could.  I know all are giving advice here based on their own experiences or opinions in order to do "good."  I have also looked on DT and it disappoints me that a vendor on their forum would express his opinion in such a negative way and would turn me off as a prospective buyer.  anytime vender''s have posted here  i have not noticed any self promotion, just honest opinions. 

ps.  i agree with you Jennifer, i find this forum much easier to navigate..
 
ha!!!

HEY BRAD- IF YOU"RE READING THIS .....

I GOT BANNED FROM YOUR SITE ...DIAMONDTALK.... FOR DOING NOTHING WRONG...MAYBE I SAID SOMETHING A LITTLE TOO CRITICAL?? Talk about shameless self promotion from one of the vendors btw....Or was it because I was suggesting Good Old Gold too much??? (eventhough I continue to give links to DBOF stones here and I think you carry some great stones and would want to do business with DBOF for that reason)...I emailed the moderator why and got no reply. TALK ABOUT SELF PROMOTION AND SELF DEALING!!!!! GIVE ME A BIG FAT FREAKIN BREAK!!!!
 
LOL, Bertrand, that''s a great piece. I miss the Steamroom because giving free press to some folks only feeds their greed for attention.
 
Oooh the SteamRoom, it''s been a while since I thought about that!
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