Diamond Brokers of Florida Trashing Pricescope

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/17/2005 10:36:21 AM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 1/16/2005 9

0:18 PM
Author: Feydakin
Brad can be somewhat less than politically correct when it comes to defending what he thinks is right and wrong.. While his points are expressed on a very loud and agressive manner, it doesn''t mean that they are totally without merit..
This is why you will never see me answering diamond questions

He''s like ''the boy who cried wolf'' at this point. I don''t listen to a thing he says. Honestly, I''ve said it before - if he put 1/2 the energies into building his own business instead of tearing down other elements, he would be more successful. Instead, he alienates people. Life doesn''t begin or end on PS. I doubt that I am in the minority of people who recommend diamonds/diamond sites off of PS to acquantances and friends. DBOF is not on my recommended list because of the patronizing, paranoid persona that has become Brad. I''m just one voice - but one who cost some commerce.

And, just as much bunk is tossed about on DT as well. This paranoia is really getting old. I was kicked off of DT & accused of being a shill vendor. Please - I''m just a dopey middle aged consumer. To add - a consumer who spends money. Talk about biting the very hand that feeds you.

I decided to quote myself here so you don''t have to quote on DT - I''ll save you the energy. Hopefully, you will redirect that saved energy.

I maintain my orginal post is the truth as I see it. Do you really think you are doing some noble act by bashing PS & YES, all that choose to post here? Interesting - a crow? Funny, that''s a first -and, mind you - very constructive criticism of PS and those that choose to participate. It is not us that choose to attack. My response is clearly a reaction to your very own DT thread. I didn''t start it. You never have to worry about having me as a client. So, one thing you need not waste energy on.

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[pearcrazy]

I just wonder, is anyone allowed to post a reply in his ranting and raving thread or is it merely his own personal forum to blow off some steam? There are 10 replies to his original thread, all of them him. Then again, I'd be afraid to come to PS defense lest I incur the wrath of DBOF and be banned as a shill!

He would show much more class to simply state his beef and then clam up. I see vendors here show much more restraint and courtesy.

Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much......

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

OK Brad. You are right. You win. All done. Goodbye.

Sharon

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/17/2005 5:32:16 PM
Author: canuk-gal
HI:

OK Brad. You are right. You win. All done. Goodbye.

Sharon

I could not agree with you more!

I wished I had listened to my inner voice that said.....you can''t reason with......

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 1/17/2005 5:30:29 PM
Author: pearcrazy
I just wonder, is anyone allowed to post a reply in his ranting and raving thread or is it merely his own personal forum to blow off some steam? There are 10 replies to his original thread, all of them him. Then again, I''d be afraid to come to PS defense lest I incur the wrath of DBOF and be banned as a shill!

He would show much more class to simply state his beef and then clam up. I see vendors here show much more restraint and courtesy.

Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much......

Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets.
Pearcrazy or any dissenting voice will be banned from DT in :-
1 hour
1 day
1 week

What ods will you give me?

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/17/2005 6

4:59 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets.
Pearcrazy or any dissenting voice will be banned from DT in :-
1 hour
1 day
1 week

What ods will you give me?

Garry, it''s not a dissenting voice. It is the voice of liars & slanderer''s because only the truth and facts are spoken on DT.

 

[Mara]

Date: 1/17/2005 6:10:33 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 1/17/2005 6

4:59 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)


Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets.
Pearcrazy or any dissenting voice will be banned from DT in :-
1 hour
1 day
1 week

What ods will you give me?

Garry, it''s not a dissenting voice. It is the voice of liars & slanderer''s because only the truth and facts are spoken on DT.

Spoken like a true SHARK!

Apparently on DT, I have suddenly become famous and quoteable. Thanks Brad!

 

[Kaleigh]

I checked dt out and he called you guys crows and said if medical advice was given out here there would be lots of malpractice!! Oh puhlease!

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

I remember talking with Leonid on the phone a couple years ago and his vision for the forum was put to me this way, “It is like closing your eye’s and having an interconnectedness with people who share many of the same interests and ideas” which forms a greater strength in the network of people sharing these ideas. Sharing the same interests and sharing ideas promotes growth, unity and strength which ultimately provides a greater wealth of learning in which is now termed the information age.

It is interesting to take a peek at those people who bash or have a bone to pick with Pricescope, because ultimately they are not a part of the vision that the whole (Pricescope Forum) shares. Information when properly channeled can lead to great things, a more informed community (consumers) can be intimidating to some retailers who are stuck in the old way of thinking. This old way of thinking is prevailing less and less in a society where the more informed consumer have more options which also means the level of service on the retail end needs to be stepped up.

The lights have been turned on ladies and gentlemen and if you don’t like what you see leave the room!

Addressing the armchair expert issue. This community has many qualified gemologists and professionals which has grown over the years to keep the community as a whole in check with factual information. Let’s all let the Diamondtalk issues rest, because ultimately it doesn’t matter what goes on over there. I believe Pricescope maintains an undiluted wealth of ideas and the community’s open mindedness as a whole is what has kept our waters from being muddied since the inception of the forum. This is the first time I have really put much energy into addressing this issue and will be the last, but this is my 2 cents on an issue that will always go on. Let’s let it go on Over There though..

 

[onedrop]

I am fairly new here. I actually came across DT first, and then found PS. Must say that PS is much easier on the eye and in gaining information. I recently went back to DT just to see what was going on and was really turned off by Brad(?)''s comments. I''ve ascertained by reading the above posts that he is a jeweler. But his rants have toatlly turned me off from dealing with him. Maligning people and other business just doesn''t set right with me.

I commend those who have been cast out of DT and otherwise maligned for your diplomatic responses. You all could have just as easily gone out of your way to rip Brad...but you didn''t.

I''m staying with PS!

 

[TravelingGal]

I''ve been lurking for a while, and read a few posts on the matter at hand.

I am sure the poster on DT isn''t a terrible person. In fact, I have read threads of his clients who are completely satisfied with him. But the rantings (or what appears to be ranting because no one is responding and he is going on and on) are a bit unnerving. I would be afraid to do business with someone who spends that much energy bashing someone else (or defending his good name. However you wanna look at it).

I say this because my best friend recently bought two very expensive watches from a "reputable" dealer in Beverly Hills. Her side of the story (which I tend to believe, because she''s not the type to exaggerate) is that one watch was fine, the other watch was not. They took it back within 24 hours (the store has a 48 hour return policy) and the dealer took it back and promised to remedy the matter. 6 weeks later, it was not remedied, they didn''t let her know what was going on, and she called AGAIN to inquire the status of the missing watch. He told her he would have to refund her money.

She was a bit frustrated that she had to do all the chasing, expressed that she was displeased and could not recommend his store to friends. He completely went OFF on her, saying that he was going to give her the refund out of the kindness of his heart, but now she just better take the watch back. He literally yelled at her, upset she would "bad mouth" him, she said. He then tried to return the watch to her with a different address on the box so she wouldn''t know where it was from (she''s from out of town, so he had to send it). She caught on, and refused shipment. She is now awaiting an answer from him before deciding to take him to court. I asked her lots of questions, not quite believing that anyone would treat a customer this way.

My point (as a consumer) is that I know everyone is a person, no one is perfect. Everyone''s buttons can be pushed. But if I am going to fork out 1000s of dollars on a product, I think I want to deal with the person who exhibits the most level-headedness. Even the *nicest* customers, when spending a lot of money, may become pains in the ass. Many pricescope vendors here may have had a difference of opinion with someone, but I respect that tones are kept quite civil (at least from what I have read...and believe me, I''ve read a lot). With the proper tools, research, appraiser, my own two eyes, etc, I would not have a problem trying a pricescope vendor. I think this site is neat...which is why I keep reading even though I have no interest in getting engaged at the moment!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 1/16/2005 9

0:18 PM
Author: Feydakin
How many times have we seen a question asked here, only to have the first post or two answer it completely wrong??

This is so true! When a certain guy named Steve comments on politics I *always* think just this!!!

Deborah

 

[Rank Amateur]

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 1/17/2005 7:49

1 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
Hey! I resemble that remark!

I wasn''t referring to you, R/A, although the number of right wing "Steves" around here HAS been increasing of late!

Your left-wing pal,

 

[Hest88]

Sigh. If a vendor rants on a board and there is no one around to hear him yell, does he make a sound?

Valid point or not, I maintain that it is merely a red herrinig...and sour grapes.

 

[Kamuelamom]

Date: 1/17/2005 6:47:28 PM
Author: Colored Gemstone Nut

Let’s all let the Diamondtalk issues rest, because ultimately it doesn’t matter what goes on over there. I believe Pricescope maintains an undiluted wealth of ideas and the community’s open mindedness as a whole is what has kept our waters from being muddied since the inception of the forum. . . . .

. . . . . Let’s let it go on Over There though..

Josh, I couldn''t agree with you more.

 

[Spartan]

Date: 1/17/2005 7:50:57 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 1/17/2005 7:49

1 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
Hey! I resemble that remark!

I wasn''t referring to you, R/A, although the number of right wing ''Steves'' around here HAS been increasing of late!

Your left-wing pal,

This is relevant.

 

[pricescope]

Josh - your words are a balsam for my soul

Welcome to the clued world. Human beings recognize each other by the way we speak, the words we use, etc. These are our true brands.


As Hugh MacLeod wrote: "Smarter conversations equal better products. It's so @#$%^*? obvious"

 

[AGBF]

Date: 1/18/2005 4:30:19 AM
Author: Spartan

This is relevant.

I am glad you are so perceptive, Spartan. A lesser man might not have recognized that sometimes an oldtimer may want to defuse a totally unecessary disagreement with humor .

 

[Rockchick]

Date: 1/17/2005 5:30:29 PM
Author: pearcrazy
I just wonder, is anyone allowed to post a reply in his ranting and raving thread or is it merely his own personal forum to blow off some steam? There are 10 replies to his original thread, all of them him Then again, I''d be afraid to come to PS defense lest I incur the wrath of DBOF and be banned as a shill!

He would show much more class to simply state his beef and then clam up. I see vendors here show much more restraint and courtesy

Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much......

haha

he is up to 15 now! I wonder how long he wil go on..

 

[moremoremore]

hehehehehe AGBF!!!

 

[Nachoman]

Wow, I may not be a hardcore PScoper but i have gained a ton of valuable knowledge just lurking here. I admit I tried to join the DT forums first but the whole ''input your credit card to get verified'' was ridiculous. I must say that as a consumer, this type of rant is unacceptable from a vendor. It''s absolutely unprofesional and I would probably not want to do business with someone like that.

Not sure why he has such a problem with vendors having alternative screen names. I can understand why vendors use other screen names, they don''t have to be ''vendors'' 24-7. I don''t walk around all day with my work badge on, acting like a professional. but when I do wear my badge, I am representing my company and its important to behave accordingly. Ranting like that while representing his company is foolish.

 

[jenwill]

Oh my. I just went over to read...and it is very disturbing. I have only been reading on this site for about a year (officially joined 7 months ago), but am an avid reader of most threads. As a soon to be purchaser, I wanted to hear what many recommendations people had for vendors.

I have read threads that put DBOF as a recommend. I have NOT read a thread that steered me away with anything more than a mild stated preference for personality clash. Reading this thread of his has turned me off of the thought more than anything I have read here.

This weekend I was a recipient of a negative sell pitch, and while I might have gotten a 10% break by purchasing from said negative nelly, I went with the saleperson who put his best foot foward, and did nothing to point out others faults as a way of making themself look better (which doesn't work BTW). Sales and marketing 101.

 

[Nachoman]

wow, I guess my post was privileged enough to be quoted by Gary. I guess to him having multiple screen names is dishonest, welcome to the internet! If he''s whining about how dishonest it is, he shouldn''t be marketing on an internet forum, it''s the nature of the beast. I could represent myself as a retailer if I wanted to. Heck I could run around saying I work at DBOF, or pretend I''m female, or pretend I''m a lion. Anybody who comes to ANY forum will have to filter the advice given, DT included.

Reminds me of folks who break up with a GF or BF. Some choose to whine, complain, scream, and rant about everything that was wrong about the other. Some choose to move on, learn from it, and get on with life. Given that he''s chosen a closed forum to voice his frustrations, makes me wonder....

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 1/18/2005 1:42:35 PM
Author: Nachoman
Wow, I may not be a hardcore PScoper but i have gained a ton of valuable knowledge just lurking here. I admit I tried to join the DT forums first but the whole ''input your credit card to get verified'' was ridiculous. I must say that as a consumer, this type of rant is unacceptable from a vendor. It''s absolutely unprofesional and I would probably not want to do business with someone like that.

Not sure why he has such a problem with vendors having alternative screen names. I can understand why vendors use other screen names, they don''t have to be ''vendors'' 24-7. I don''t walk around all day with my work badge on, acting like a professional. but when I do wear my badge, I am representing my company and its important to behave accordingly. Ranting like that while representing his company is foolish.

I am honestly unaware that any Pricescope consumer poster is indeed a vendor or even associated with a vendor. The only cases I was ever aware of were associated with a particular branded cut (and he still posts on DT even though that company has been banned on DT - he is very balanced in his promotion anyway) which is not very often promoted here because it is very expensive and the regular and more frequent posters usually find consumers cheaper alternatives with the same look - a free service.

 

[Kamuelamom]

Folks, especially Leonid, please forgive me if this borders on the line of inappropriateness. I am ONLY posting this here as it is obvious that Brad is visiting this thread regularly. And I will not lower myself to reregistering on DT just to reply to him. So Brad by your own words you say:

"Yes let it go now that the damage has been done. It is really hard for some to stick their neck out for what is right, especially when they allow themselves to become absorbed in the Pricescope gossip. This gossip is the work of the evil one.
This goes to show you that you can go out of your way to do good for people, but they can still sometimes become drawn into the darkness and turn on you with their gossip. What good comes from this? none. Hurting other people tends to give some great pleasure though."

Are you talking to me? I can only conclude that you are directing these particular comments towards me since it directly folllows my reply to Josh. I remained relatively silent so as not to stir the pot, you are doing that quite well all by yourself.

But I came forth to ask that if you have something to say to me, just say it. I am not some meek overly mild mannered person who "cannot stick my neck out for what is right" and I certainly don''t appreciate your implication that I have "allowed myself to become absorbed in the Pricescope gossip." Trust me, DT has gossip all its own which I never got absorbed in either.

I have publically stated before, and have expressed my gratitude towards you for helping me in a situation which technically you were not obligated to. That I am not coming to the defense of your ridiculous behavior does not mean that I been "drawn into any darkness" nor have I "turned on you" in doing so. Perhaps some of your anger towards me is caused by the further altering of my ring which you kindly fixed for me? Dunno.

I have never been one to seek pleasure in hurting others so I hope this is just a generalization in your mind.

With all due respect, at present you are behaving in a ridiculously vile manner. I''m not sure what is at the root of this lashing, but I truly hope that when things settle down in your mind, you realize this is not everyone at Pricescope vs. DBOF. There are a lot of diamond buyers, and a lot of great vendors to go around. As long as the internet exists, business will be had by these buyers. We all participate here, just like we did at DT and try to have a good time doing it. I don''t know anything about multiple IDs, customers posing as vendors, etc, but I am not so naive to think that it does not happen, and like it''s been said, if you don''t like what goes on in these forums, and recognize that with the internet you will get the good with the bad, then maybe you should stick to your store and forget about doing business on the net? That way we (PS members collectively) won''t be be accused of being vendors in disguise and giving advice that should be avoided by consumers. I personally have seen many, many happy consumers come away with education, interest, and ultimately a product which they are happy with here on Pricescope. The same used to be true of DT back when....

I''ll keep swimming now.

In the words of our friend the Iceman, nuff said.

 

[lostdog]

Ahh, it's just too tempting.....

There is such a thing as a marketplace of ideas. You put yours out there, others put theirs out there. Better ideas bring better results. Ah, wait, now I understand.

Okay, buttons pushed, now off to the mailbox to collect my shill wages........Next!

 

[pyramid]

As a consumer like Kamuelamom I know that there is bound to be some devious marketing tactics carried out by vendors on a forum where they can remain anonymous. Look at how high street jewellers and maul stores are after all, telling you that your, original jewellery is beautiful and let me clean it for you, when they are probably thinking hurry up and buy something I want to go for my lunch. Look at the sales channels on television, we have them in the UK too, all that nice chatting but no worry that some people are going into debt on their credit cards buying jewellery they probably would not have if they had to pay for it in cash. DBOF are also a bricks and mortar jewellery store and I am sure they know that other jewellers in their area tell their customers that their diamonds are better than the ones offered at DBOF because of blah (made up reasons). The vendors on here are tempting people the same way - it is called business.

I know from reading previously and being a member on Diamondtalk that DBOF do carry great diamonds and Brad and Jan work very hard for their customers and have many happy customers.

I think that for Brad to get so mad, that he is keeping posting not so good comments about Pricescope, he must believe very very strongly that he is in the right and Pricescope are damaging his business. For instance the princess cut diamond he states where a customer was swayed away from his stone for one which he states was not so good may only be one instance and he may have silently watched others go buy the same way. I do think that customers should help other customers but should not give professional type advice on stones when they do not know much about them. After all as CutNut has stated many times there are different combinations of crown and pavillion angles which work. A consumer does not know these as they have not studied diamonds and worked with many diamonds in this way. I do think Brad has a point here.

Although Brad knows there are vendors posing as consumers putting traffic their own way surely if they are rubbishing his stones, where his stones are as good as theirs, this is a very dishonest thing to do. By all means push to get customers your way but I think it is wrong to tell lies about another stone to do so. Say nothing about the other stone but do not say the other stone is bad or not so good. There again as they say though this is the real world. This is also the real worldwide web.

I know that Brad has come across as degrading Pricescope but he is I believe upset as well as angry. Could some of the vendors not reply to him privately about this. If vendors are doing this they probably would not contact him. Customers reading these stories are going to be put off buying from both Pricescope vendors and also DBOF. Should the moderator intervene here and check who is posting whether they are a shill bidder or an honest vendor from their i.d. or is it just the way of the world now and to be expected? I think it is to be expected now as otherwise Leonid would be restricting posters rights in the same way as Diamondtalk has done by banning posters and losing many posters. Going over to that board is not like it used to be, there is not the amount of professional information there used to be, no matter what the resident posters say. Pricescope, in my opinion, is hands down still the best. I go over and read Diamondtalk, as I am not longer a member, for the gossip not for a learning experience anymore. By gossip I mean to see what everyone has bought and look at pictures of lovely diamonds, some of which are from DBOF. DBOF are as good as any of the Vendors here and I hope they remain so.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 1/19/2005 4

1:53 AM
Author: pyramid

I think that for Brad to get so mad, that he is keeping posting not so good comments about Pricescope, he must believe very very strongly that he is in the right and Pricescope are damaging his business. For instance the princess cut diamond he states where a customer was swayed away from his stone for one which he states was not so good may only be one instance and he may have silently watched others go buy the same way. I do think that customers should help other customers but should not give professional type advice on stones when they do not know much about them. After all as CutNut has stated many times there are different combinations of crown and pavillion angles which work. A consumer does not know these as they have not studied diamonds and worked with many diamonds in this way. I do think Brad has a point here.

Pyramid it is true that I stir you up almost as often as you post anla questions about graining and other wierd things

, but you know that is just because i have a sick sense of Aussie humor (I could never get away with it with an American!). But i think you have been soooo very nice to Brad. Personally I have no hatered for him. I have looked down gun barrels and had my in-laws robbed after a set-up by a former employee, and these events were far more traumatic than some guy from the other side of the world who does not like my cut grading approach (even though AGS are changing theirs to be similar to mine

).

But I too would like brad to give up his tiradeand ''get a life''. Move on. Before the stress kills him.

Now consider the case of the Princess cut - as i understand he lost the sale because the other stone had more information than he provided. So what can you do about it Brad?
1. list all your diamonds with a Sarin scan converted to a DiamCalc Gem Adviser file.
2. make up your own Firescopetm Ideal-scope copy, like Rhino and Barry, and list photo''s on your website.
3. Provide photos that clearly show the inclusions of SI and lower clarity diamonds
That is the sort of information that is becoming the norm for anyone selling the type of cut quality diamonds that I believ you offer.

Pyramid you also mentioned the shill issue. Would anyone please personal message or email me or Leonid with anyone who you think might be a shill? Leonid will check their IP addresses etc. We do not believe there are any shills. And if there was one company doing it - you could expect all the others who advertise on Pricescope would be trying it too! All of you who know Leonid will know that he is just dead against such practices. If every man has his price, then Leonids would be a lot higher than anyone could pay to allow such a cheap deceptive practice.

That means you too Brad - please name them. You can email me privately on that issue and I will handle it confidentially. You have my word on that.

BTW - for those who do not already know - Brad is replying to the messages posted here on DT.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 1/19/2005 4

1:53 AM
Author: pyramid

I know from reading previously and being a member on Diamondtalk that DBOF do carry great diamonds and Brad and Jan work very hard for their customers and have many happy customers.


I think that for Brad to get so mad, that he is keeping posting not so good comments about Pricescope, he must believe very very strongly that he is in the right and Pricescope are damaging his business.

I know that Brad has come across as degrading Pricescope but he is I believe upset as well as angry.
...
Customers reading these stories are going to be put off buying from both Pricescope vendors and also DBOF.

Wow! This was a very courageous posting, pyramid! And especially generous given that you were thrown off Diamond Talk, the site where Brad is posting! I agree with what you are saying. I have been very disturbed by the acrimony shown by Brad to Pricescope-the former being a jeweler from whom I buy and the latter being the most wonderful, generous website that has provided me with a home when Brad's website (the website on which he posts and advertizes) threw me off. And I know that it has upset other Pricescope readers far more than it has me because I know and like Brad. People on Pricescope who do not know him do not understand why he is upset at all and just feel he is being mean-spirited.

I happen to have written to Jan and Brad this morning before seeing these last two postings by you and Garry. I, also, do not have a clue who is a shill on Pricecope, but I sure would like to know...and I know other consumers would, too!

What bothers me, Brad, is that you have assumed that consumers here have gotten mixed up in evil. That just sounds crazy to me. Do you think I would post to a site that was evil? Deliberately?

In the opinion of one who values the greats service of DBOF and the great site of Pricescope, this has been a miserable time.

Deborah