Do we NEED to know how to take care of the home to get engaged??

[fieryred33143]

My coworker approached me about two months ago asking for help with picking an engagement ring for his girlfriend of 3 years. She is 22 or just turned 23 (can’t remember) and he’s 29. For the past two months, he and I have exchanged emails about the subject. We talked about the 4cs, his budget, even planned a trip to the Seybold building (jewelry exchange in Miami). He wanted it to be a total surprise.

Then we went on a business trip together and during dinner he starts telling me about his concerns. He says that since he’s never lived with anyone besides mom and sister, he’s nervous about moving in with her. Quote “I’m afraid she doesn’t know how to be a wife”

She lives at home with mom and dad. Mom is a SAHM, so mom takes care of all the cooking and cleaning. According to him, she doesn’t know how to cook and doesn’t really do any household chores. He is against living with someone before getting married AND is afraid that she isn’t ready to take on the responsibilities of being a wife.

I let the conversation just sort of die on its own because to be honest, it made me kind of upset. Then he tells me today that he isn’t going to propose. I put myself in her shoes. If I found out that my boyfriend of 3 years was planning on proposing to me but backed out of it because he’s afraid I don’t know how to do laundry…I would be devastated! And what’s worse is who says she’s the one that is going to take care of everything herself? She works too. Thankfully, she doesn’t have a clue that he was even thinking about asking. But then part of me thinks that all men want to be taken care of so maybe he’s just worried that she won’t be able to take care of him??

I don’t know, what are your thoughts on this?

 

[Lauren8211]

I'm sorry, but since when did being a wife mean knowing how to cook and clean? What kind of antiquated idea of a wife does he have?

Being a wife is promising to love and cherish your husband til death do you part. Not love and cherish the damn laundry machine.

UGH!

I don't even know what else to say about this except that household duties should be shared, and cleaning and cooking is something that is EASILY learned once you've divided up chores and decided who is responsible for what. Does he have that little faith in her that she won't be able to carry her own weight around the house? My goodness. Thank the lord he's not proposing. Maybe she'll figure out what he thinks of her before its too late!

 

[Lauren8211]

PS - Fiery these angry thoughts are not directed at you! lol

Just throwin in my .02!

 

[sunnyd]

Ugh...

I don't even know what to say. ...but I'd be so pissed if I found out about this little scheme. What has he been doing while he's been outta mom's house?!?! Hiring a maid and eating out for the last 5+ years?!?! Welcome to 2008 dude.

That being said, yeah, she should probably live on her own and have to take care of her own things before moving in with him. But I think everyone should live on their own before marriage.

ETA in case it wasn't clear...she should NOT live on her own so that she can learn to cook and clean for him!!!

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 7/14/2008 11:13:29 AM
Author: elledizzy5
PS - Fiery these angry thoughts are not directed at you! lol

Just throwin in my .02!

Ha! I had the exact same conversation with my boyfriend when I got home and it sounded just like what you wrote

I was very close to telling him that he needs to get over himself...but I had four more days left to the trip LOL

 

[sba771]

Wow. I almost wish she knew so she could break up with him. That is awful. I am also 22 and newly engaged and thank goodness cooking and cleaning were not required. While I do live with my FI we joke that I can''t cook for the life of me. I do the laundry and help clean, but so does he and he cooks. We both have full time jobs in NY and it impossible to be a homemaker and work. Is it the 1920s where the woman has to do everything for the man? It is one thing if she enjoys it- I like doing the laundry because I feel I am giving back, but it is very different if those are someone''s expectations! I feel very sorry for this unsuspecting girl and hope she wises up soon.

 

[KimberlyH]

Or perhaps he's concerned about marrying a 23 year old who can't take care of herself, i.e. doesn't know how to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. and so he fears he'll have to do it all himself or live in squalor? I think his concerns are valid, I wouldn't have wanted to to marry a man who doesn't know how to cook, clean, do his own laundry as I don't believe it's my wifely duty to do those things for him. I don't think my husband would have married me if I couldn't do any of the things adults need to, to care for themselves and their home and I would have agreed with him. It would be like having a child as opposed to a life partner.

ETA: This is not to say if someone is a horrible cook that he/she shouldn't get married, etc. I just mean that according to the OP neither of these people appears to have handled any domestic adult responsibilities and it would be good for both of them to gain some life experience, having to take care of themselves, before they get married.

So to answer the question in your title, I would say, yes, I think both men and women who are getting married should have some understanding of what it takes to manage a home before getting engaged/married.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 7/14/2008 11:17:22 AM
Author: KimberlyH
Or perhaps he''s concerned about marrying a 23 year old who can''t take care of herself, i.e. doesn''t know how to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. and so he fears he''ll have to do it all himself or live in squalor? I think his concerns are valid, I wouldn''t have wanted to to marry a man who doesn''t know how to cook, clean, do his own laundry as I don''t believe it''s my wifely duty to do those things for him. I don''t think my husband would have married me if I couldn''t do any of the things adults need to, to care for themselves and their home and I would have agreed with him. It would be like having a child as opposed to a life partner.

I agree. I lived on my own before moving in with my boyfriend so I knew how to take care of myself (although I could definitely afford to take some cooking classes). Because of that, I would probably not have wanted to marry someone that didn’t know how to take care of himself because I know first hand that its hard work to run a home.
And yes I think his concerns are valid but I got the impression from him that he’s looking for someone to take care of him while he does very minimal work. I explained to him that when we moved in together there was a lot we had to learn how to do, but that’s the natural part of moving in with someone. Even if you know how to do laundry, maybe you are very specific while your partner throws everything in at once. I told him then that it shouldn’t be a make or break, as long as she’s willing to learn (that’s key in my opinion because its one thing to not do anything and an entirely different thing to not want to do anything).

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 7/14/2008 11:23:32 AM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 7/14/2008 11:17:22 AM
Author: KimberlyH
Or perhaps he''s concerned about marrying a 23 year old who can''t take care of herself, i.e. doesn''t know how to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. and so he fears he''ll have to do it all himself or live in squalor? I think his concerns are valid, I wouldn''t have wanted to to marry a man who doesn''t know how to cook, clean, do his own laundry as I don''t believe it''s my wifely duty to do those things for him. I don''t think my husband would have married me if I couldn''t do any of the things adults need to, to care for themselves and their home and I would have agreed with him. It would be like having a child as opposed to a life partner.

I agree. I lived on my own before moving in with my boyfriend so I knew how to take care of myself (although I could definitely afford to take some cooking classes). Because of that, I would probably not have wanted to marry someone that didn’t know how to take care of himself because I know first hand that its hard work to run a home.

And yes I think his concerns are valid but I got the impression from him that he’s looking for someone to take care of him while he does very minimal work. I explained to him that when we moved in together there was a lot we had to learn how to do, but that’s the natural part of moving in with someone. Even if you know how to do laundry, maybe you are very specific while your partner throws everything in at once. I told him then that it shouldn’t be a make or break, as long as she’s willing to learn (that’s key in my opinion because its one thing to not do anything and an entirely different thing to not want to do anything).

Your opinion sounds logical to me! I think the best advice I ever recieved was that I should live alone for at least a year before getting married. It was one of the most fun, interesting, amazing experiences of my life and I learned so much from every day. I''d highly recommend it!

 

[FrekeChild]

Muah ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

I''m so a modern Stepford wife.

Stupid C school.

I will refrain from making comments about the situation, for the sake of board. Did you tell him that if he''s not going to propose that he needs to break up with her, unless he sees this changing?

 

[Pushin40]

My thoguhts:

It sounds to me like he may be afraid that she''s helpless, or maybe he''s afraid she''s lazy.

I woudln''t want my chosen partner to be helpless either. Thats a pretty big carachter flaw, if you ask me.

There iis no reason why HE should have to do all the cooking or cleaning either!!! It''s a partnership!

He also may have reservations since she has never been on her own, and maybe he doesn''t want to have to take care of EVERYTHING for her or have to teach her things most young adults need to do to take care of themselves.

22 or 23 is still very young and I know when I was in my twnties I learned A LOT about taking care of myself and running my home, etc. You live it, you learn it, not big deal. But she hasn''t lived it.....

Kudos for him being honest with himself. Love isn''t everyithing in the real world.

I suspect there could be more to the story.

 

[krispi]

It''s one thing to worry about her never having lived on her own and having a chance to be her own person and fully realize who she is. It''s entirely another to worry about whether she mixes the darks with the lights in the washing machine! Not sure which angle your friend is really thinking, but if it''s the second, I would certainly hope his GF knows that is how he views a marriage relationship.

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

OK Here is my $.02 FF and I have had many conversations on this topic(we live together) Someday, when we have kids, I will be a SAHM and take care of the wee ones and take care of the house. I''m totally cool with that. But, he got pretty carried away with it and took advantage of all I do; and I had enough!! I have a full-time job and part-time job and was trying to do all household duties. We made a deal... I do cleaning and laundry...he does anything involving outside (mowing, taking out trash, scooping poopy <--muahahaha)Food we will switch back and forth, which usually I do because I''m starving, and don''t want to wait on him "to think of what to cook" haha but I''m a better cook anyway. OH SORRY BACK TO TOPIC... haha I think this guy is crazy I mean, I''ll love to be susie homemaker someday... but not every woman that is right for! He should not just assume she will be his mommy and wipe his a$$ for him. That is soo selfish! It''s not fair that he expects that of her! BAHHHHH

What a pooper..he is not going to propose because of that?!?! It sounds like they have some communication issues!!!

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

ahhaah

that dude should see me and my fiance's place... what a disaster!

 

[tessari]

Just wondering--what do you all think about the situation where the husband works long hours and wakes way more money than the wife who works part time and has summers off? Should the wife do more or all of the house chores?

 

[orangemonster]

Just find it funny that he''s not worried whether or not he knows how to be a good husband since he has lived all his life at home too? Hmmm!
I can see why this would upset you OP!
FYI - before I got married, I lived at home and didn''t cook now I LOVE cooking but not because I ''have'' to. Hubster and I figured it all out as we went along. We don''t keep a list of ''who does what'' but whoever is there when something needs doing simply ''does'' it. Works for us and I am so lucky I married a guy who is great in the home! Oh and for what it''s worth? He makes wayyy more $$$ than I ever could and never gripes, moans or complains about pushing a vacuum... what a KEEPER!

 

[sunnyd]

Date: 7/14/2008 2:05:56 PM
Author: tessari
Just wondering--what do you all think about the situation where the husband works long hours and wakes way more money than the wife who works part time and has summers off? Should the wife do more or all of the house chores?

As long as she doesn''t have a problem with it and it works for them...then yeah I would see it that way. Not because she should "make up" for the husband making more or being home less though. Tricky issue!!

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 7/14/2008 2:05:56 PM
Author: tessari
Just wondering--what do you all think about the situation where the husband works long hours and wakes way more money than the wife who works part time and has summers off? Should the wife do more or all of the house chores?

I firmly believe that if one partner (regardless of male or female) works less hours and has more time to do the household duties, then that person should take responsibility for it…but that’s not to say do it alone.

My FF gets home 2 hours before I do so when I get home, dinner is ready. There is no sense in him waiting the 2, sometimes 3, hours for me to get home to prepare dinner. Likewise, he is usually busy on the weekends (either working, helping his father with repairing their house, or in the studio) so I make sure to do all the chores that need to get done on the weekend. But if we are both available, then we will clean together.

My mom was a SAHM and she cleaned/cooked every day while my dad was working. On the weekends, that was her time off and he would do all the cooking/cleaning as appreciation for her AND because he believed they were a team.

 

[misscuppycake]

Wow - I''m shocked to see this topic because this is EXACTLY the way I feel! On top of not being finished school for another year, I won''t deny that one thing holding me back from marriage is that I have fears about being a horrible wife. I can''t cook (at ALL...I''ve ruined 3 cans of soup in the last year), never done a load of laundry, can hardly make a bed, etc. I literally cannot comment on this because I know exactly how that husband feels because I am on the other side. I almost don''t blame him.

 

[sunnyd]

I wouldn''t call it being a good wife though, I think that''s the problem. The cooking/cleaning/whatever is part of being an adult looking after your home and yourself. Knowing how to cook and clean has nothing to do with being a wife, IMO.

 

[Mediterranean]

Aw, man! See, that''s Miami for ya?

If you don''t know how to cook up arroz con pollo, woe be unto you, ya know? We seem to live in a city FULL of domestic geniuses---we all know them--the women who can perfectly sew a replica of an $8500 Monique L''huillier gown just from looking at a picture online, the women who can whip up ceviche and flan and lechon asado.....all in the same afternoon.

I say that as long as you know how to work a phone you can call a maid a seamtress or a chef, and who''s to know you ain''t THE domestic goddess of the century??

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 7/14/2008 2:33:47 PM
Author: Mediterranean
Aw, man! See, that''s Miami for ya?

If you don''t know how to cook up arroz con pollo, woe be unto you, ya know? We seem to live in a city FULL of domestic geniuses---we all know them--the women who can perfectly sew a replica of an $8500 Monique L''huillier gown just from looking at a picture online, the women who can whip up ceviche and flan and lechon asado.....all in the same afternoon.

I say that as long as you know how to work a phone you can call a maid a seamtress or a chef, and who''s to know you ain''t THE domestic goddess of the century??

LMAO ah Miami women. If he''s still waiting for me to whip up arroz con pollo, he''s going to be waiting a long time

 

[Pushin40]

Date: 7/14/2008 2:21:37 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 7/14/2008 2:05:56 PM
Author: tessari
Just wondering--what do you all think about the situation where the husband works long hours and wakes way more money than the wife who works part time and has summers off? Should the wife do more or all of the house chores?

I firmly believe that if one partner (regardless of male or female) works less hours and has more time to do the household duties, then that person should take responsibility for it…but that’s not to say do it alone.

My FF gets home 2 hours before I do so when I get home, dinner is ready. There is no sense in him waiting the 2, sometimes 3, hours for me to get home to prepare dinner. Likewise, he is usually busy on the weekends (either working, helping his father with repairing their house, or in the studio) so I make sure to do all the chores that need to get done on the weekend. But if we are both available, then we will clean together.

My mom was a SAHM and she cleaned/cooked every day while my dad was working. On the weekends, that was her time off and he would do all the cooking/cleaning as appreciation for her AND because he believed they were a team.

I agree, and I think it''s totally a balancing act.
I know some SAHM''s who have husbands that work and literally do EVERYTHING else around the house - cooking and cleaning - and these SAHMs have kids in school, so they have the day pretty much free to do running around etc but thats about it....
I don''t get that - I would feel really guilty. but then again I am a "doer" and alwayas have been, I don''t like soemeone doing something for me when I am perfectly able to do it myself. For example: my SO always does the dishes and I stilll have a hard time watching him! Maybe I should snap out of that!

I guess you make it work, and everyone''s sitiation is different. As long as both parties have the same expectations. Sounds like that guy needs to talk to his GF about what kind of life they envision together. Maybe she is a career woman and has no thoughts of being a SAHM or even cleanigng the house EVER. Nothing wrong with a housecleaner.

 

[2Artists]

I think that it is good to know how to take care of a home and ones self. For both guys and gals. It''s just a life skill. Though there are however some lovely people who are crappy cooks etc. who would still be a loving partner.

I am really into (hmmmm I''ll call it home engineering or being a domestic goddess). We are artists so we really care about having peaceful visual surroundings. But my husband is just as as competent as I am at all the home and cooking stuff. Depending on work hours or if someone gets sick etc. things get divided differently at different times.

Just like women who are handy and can fix stuff are cool and desirable so are men who can cook and clean and do laundry. So hot!

Being self sufficient is very attractive.

Its also good to remember to say thank you for all that your partner does. Doing loving service for each other is where the real romance is.

And its OK to learn stuff together as a team. No ones perfect. Just laugh together if food gets burned, or clothes come out pink or if something goes wrong. Stuff happens- laugh together, learn from it, move on and love each other.


Mrs.2Artists

 

[Bia]

HELL NO. It 50/50.

I'm not a domestic goddess by any stretch of the imagination, but BF loves me anyway. I cook & do the laundry, BF cleans pretty much everything, that works for us and to be honest, I think I got the better deal because I love to cook

BF is a clean freak on his own and since I am a fairly decent cook, he is happy as a clam with our arrangement

Your co-worker has spoken like a true mama's boy it seems.

ETA: Made some arroz con pollo, tostones con aji, and yuca on Saturday

...it was heaven and unfortunately there were no leftovers for my lunch today

 

[meresal]

OP: I am astonished that you were able to keep a striaght face and holod back. My jaw would have hit the table the minute he said "make a good wife". It's a very good thing she wasn't already expecting the engagement, bc it sounds like she could be waiting a while.

Date: 7/14/2008 2:05:56 PM
Author: tessari
Just wondering--what do you all think about the situation where the husband works long hours and wakes way more money than the wife who works part time and has summers off? Should the wife do more or all of the house chores?

Agree on the balancing act.

More or all... are those the only 2 choices? How about they stay split, you just switch it up based on need and time line? C has wayyyy more laundry than I do, but when I was working part-time, I did laundry almost 3 times a week, just to keep myself busy, and had dinner ready at night. In this instance, he did the cleaning around the apt and I did laundry, instead of the way it is now (we both have full time jobs), where I do cleaning, he does laundry/trash, and we eat out about 5 of the 7 nights of the week. (work late or playign gold together any afternoon we get the chance)

Why should one person have to do "more or all" just becuase they don't work as much? What if the person working full-time makes less than the person working part-time? Does the part-timer get to sit on the couch all day and wait for the full-timer to get home a cook? I don't think so...

 

[wishful]

Yeah this day in age when usually both parnters have full time jobs, the houswork needs to be shared as well.
It''s not fair for him to assume she will be doing all of those duties.
Sounds like they need to communicate a little more so they are both on the same page before moving forward towards engagement.

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

TOTALLY agree with most posters! I''m all for living together BEFORE you get married.... you really learn A LOT about a person when you live with them! If I wouldn''t have moved in with my ex....I would have made a HUGE mistake!

 

[absolut_blonde]

I agree with KimberlyH that I can sort of see this guy's side. Maybe in this instance, his motivations are a bit dubious (maybe he does expect too much, hard to say). But I absolutely wouldn't want to move in with someone who wasn't able to be self-sufficient.

That said, I moved out of my parents' place and in with SO. I was in a similar situation to that dude's girlfriend (my mom did a lot for me when I was at home) and I'm fine. I still know how to do everything, save for the occasional call to my mom with a dumb question. If you're not completely lazy, you will figure it out eventually in most cases. Just because you haven't done it in the past, doesn't mean that you can't. I do know that SO had similar concerns to the aforementioned guy and I can tell that he's pleasantly relieved that I'm actually pretty darn helpful to have around.


As for delegating things...
I think every couple needs to work out what works best for both of them. If you're both happy and not resentful of the other person, that's all that matters. So far, SO and I have gotten by with a combination of approaches. For some things, we've delegated responsibilties. Others, either of us do as it needs to be done.

For us, this works out so that I do the majority of the cooking and grocery shopping. He's a great cook, but he's working long hours. Maybe it's a bit retro of me, but I LIKE taking care of him & like being able to have dinner ready for him after a 14 hour work day. Do I 'have' to because I have more free time? No... but I want to. And since I'm doing most of the cooking, I prefer to do the grocery shopping (in case something I hadn't planned to make is fresh/on special -- I can grab it there and change the week's menu accordingly).

Then, he takes care of the outdoor stuff. Mowing the lawn, taking out the trash, etc. Things like dishes and laundry, we trade off on. If he's around and the dishwasher needs to be emptied, he will. Or vice versa.

I'm very lucky that SO's been on his own for 8 years. He is GREAT about helping out around the house.

 

[trillionaire]

I don't think any man should expect his wife to cook and clean for him, but I can understand being 29 and having an established routine of cooking, cleaning and running a household and being concerned about your partner's ability and willingness to maintain a household. (SO and I are constantly trying to negotiate and renegotiate this, and we don't live together). I don't think this should be a deal breaker, but rather an OPPORTUNITY to broach a discussion about how you would foresee household responsibilities being divided in a marriage.

When I discussed this with SO, we started with how his parents divided labor, and how he felt about that division, what he would have liked to see done differently, then I answered the same. Then we talked about how we could divide things, and what chores we hated, and which ones we didn't mind. I think that ANY COUPLE who is considering marriage should discuss this, as it will be something that impacts the rest of your life, unless one of you is happy to be the family maid. (If you meet THAT guy, send him MY way!

)

So Fiery, I would tell him to have that discussion with her. If he is not willing, or can't handle the outcome, then maybe they aren't such great match. The conversation sounded very chauvinistic, but giving him the benefit of the doubt, I can understand how incompatible lifestyles could be a deal breaker... but it's a bit premature for him to assume that without a discussion. And further, if he has no intention to propose, he should let her know that so that she can move on.

ETA: I would also like to say that sometimes you have to SHOW your SO what you mean about certain cleaning tasks. Like, SO will come home to a clean kitchen at his apartment one day, and he thanks me for cleaning, and I graciously accept. I also explained that that is MY interpretation of what a clean kitchen looks like. I'm not a stickler, so I don't always expect a spotless kitchen or anything, but there is no confusion if I say that the kitchen is not clean, because he understands what a clean kitchen is to ME. Though if it was 75% of my standard, I probably wouldn't even bother mentioning it... Plus my place is never super clean, just functionally clean