Do we NEED to know how to take care of the home to get engaged??

[MoonWater]

It''s funny, there''s an article in the most recent O magazine about how women end up doing, I want to say, 7 extra hours of housework once they get married. Men on the other hand do only an extra hour. So women still dominate when it comes to household chores.

FI and I aren''t married just yet, but we''ve been living together for over 4 years now and duties sort of switch depending on who has more work to do outside the house. In the beginning I did all of the cooking simply because I enjoy it and I''m better at it. However, he cleans much better than I do so he''d clean more often. Nowadays, I''ve been working full time, commuting, and doing school full time and I''ve just been exhausted. I barely care if the house is clean or if I eat. So for about a year he did all the cleaning around the house, and cooked for me. The only thing seperate was laundry and that''s because we always had seperate hampers. I have to say, he does laundry better than I do as well. He knows how to fold properly! My schedule changed recently so that I''m home in the evenings so I''m trying to take over cooking again. But he still dominates in cleaning, he always cleans the kitchen and thank god because I absolutely hate it. I told him if he took over the kitchen and bathroom I would happy clean the rest of the house.

 

[Pushin40]

Date: 7/14/2008 3:19:21 PM
Author: MoonWater
It''s funny, there''s an article in the most recent O magazine about how women end up doing, I want to say, 7 extra hours of housework once they get married. Men on the other hand do only an extra hour. So women still dominate when it comes to household chores.

FI and I aren''t married just yet, but we''ve been living together for over 4 years now and duties sort of switch depending on who has more work to do outside the house. In the beginning I did all of the cooking simply because I enjoy it and I''m better at it. However, he cleans much better than I do so he''d clean more often. Nowadays, I''ve been working full time, commuting, and doing school full time and I''ve just been exhausted. I barely care if the house is clean or if I eat. So for about a year he did all the cleaning around the house, and cooked for me. The only thing seperate was laundry and that''s because we always had seperate hampers. I have to say, he does laundry better than I do as well. He knows how to fold properly! My schedule changed recently so that I''m home in the evenings so I''m trying to take over cooking again. But he still dominates in cleaning, he always cleans the kitchen and thank god because I absolutely hate it. I told him if he took over the kitchen and bathroom I would happy clean the rest of the house.

I doubt Oprah woudl publish anything to the contrary....

I woudl love to see where her statistics come from.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 7/14/2008 2:12:16 PM
Author: orangemonster
Just find it funny that he''s not worried whether or not he knows how to be a good husband since he has lived all his life at home too? Hmmm!

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Pandora II]

You should have asked him two questions:

1) Can you afford a cleaning lady?

2) Do you own a microwave?

FI and I are living proof that you can live long-term on microwave curries (spaghetti with bacon and pesto is the other thing we eat - hey that needs saucepans!

).

We''re both untidy - Fridays I get home and the house sparkles as if by magic!

Seriously, if you are both working, there is no way that you want to spend ALL your spare time doing housework and cooking! We take it in turns to cook and FI does the laundry way more often than I do.


I find it very odd that someone would decide not to propose over this and yet not try living with her. Seems like setting yourself up for trouble.

I know I can''t live with people who are neatfreaks - we would end up hating each other. It''s important to find out what gets you before you make a permanent commitment.

Whatever I think of this guys reasoning, at least he is thinking his feelings through.

 

[Amanda.Rx]

Does HE know how to be a good husband? ... or just a brother or son? (Since he''s only lived with mom and sis)

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

If this is an issue, he needs to stop being a d1ck and tell her. I mean really, not wanting to marry someone over this and not even letting them know there is a problem. That is the basis for a bad marriage.
He either needs to talk to her, get over it, move in with her or move on.

I lived in a dorm where there was nothing to clean and my meals were (unfortunately) prepared for me. I have never truely lived on my own in that respect as I moved in with FI when I wasn''t in the dorm. However, I can garden, sew, do laundry, manage a budget and household finances, paint, some cleaning, etc. My mother was trained to cook in Paris and taught me, so I can take care of myself just fine except for clutter control. I don''t think not doing something in any way equates to not being able to.

 

[luckystar112]

Hmmm...call me old fashioned, but I don''t take offense to his concerns at all.
Perhaps we are missing something here. Do you think that he decided overnight that he didn''t want to propose anymore, or did something precipitate that thought?

My step-sister is 22, living at home, and can''t do a darn thing for herself. She has her father make her food. My mom does her laundry. Her mother fills out her W2s for her. The girl has never paid a bill in her life. Could your co-worker be realizing that he is about to marry THIS girl...because I''ll tell you one thing, this girl is not a woman.

One of my best friends from high school is 25 and just moved out of the house...ONLY because one of her friends said that she would pay all of the rent for that summer. I guarantee she''ll be back at her parent''s house come September.

As much as some don''t want to believe it, there is a breed of early to mid twenty-somethings that have NO clue how to take care of themselves, let alone another person. I blame the parents who appear to coddle to their child''s every need.

So I don''t think this is sexist at all. If I met a man who was anything like my step-sister (and I have) I''d be wondering how they could possibly be a good husband someday.

 

[JSM]

Date: 7/14/2008 2:25:06 PM
Author: sunnyd
I wouldn't call it being a good wife though, I think that's the problem. The cooking/cleaning/whatever is part of being an adult looking after your home and yourself. Knowing how to cook and clean has nothing to do with being a wife, IMO.

I agree 100%! I can understand not being able to cook (not quite, though, because both FI and I cook well), but if you are an adult, you need to know how to do your own laundry and clean your own home.

My brother is one who needs to grow up. Yes, he may make good money, but he still lives at home because my parents can't kick him out! He's never had to do things like clean a bathroom - and I think living with his fiancee (who has never had to do so either) in the future is going to give him a big wake up call!

 

[iheartscience]

I think the girl''s lucky that guy isn''t going to ask her. If he wants a housekeeper, he should hire one.

Also, I think it''s pretty strange that he started dating her when she was 19 and living with mom and dad and he was 26. If he wanted to be with someone who is self-sufficient, he should have started dating someone who lived by herself and was out of her teens.

 

[FrekeChild]

Ditto to thing2of2. Well said!

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 7/14/2008 4:27:11 PM
Author: Pushin40

Date: 7/14/2008 3:19:21 PM

Author: MoonWater

It's funny, there's an article in the most recent O magazine about how women end up doing, I want to say, 7 extra hours of housework once they get married. Men on the other hand do only an extra hour. So women still dominate when it comes to household chores.


FI and I aren't married just yet, but we've been living together for over 4 years now and duties sort of switch depending on who has more work to do outside the house. In the beginning I did all of the cooking simply because I enjoy it and I'm better at it. However, he cleans much better than I do so he'd clean more often. Nowadays, I've been working full time, commuting, and doing school full time and I've just been exhausted. I barely care if the house is clean or if I eat. So for about a year he did all the cleaning around the house, and cooked for me. The only thing seperate was laundry and that's because we always had seperate hampers. I have to say, he does laundry better than I do as well. He knows how to fold properly! My schedule changed recently so that I'm home in the evenings so I'm trying to take over cooking again. But he still dominates in cleaning, he always cleans the kitchen and thank god because I absolutely hate it. I told him if he took over the kitchen and bathroom I would happy clean the rest of the house.

I doubt Oprah woudl publish anything to the contrary....

I woudl love to see where her statistics come from.

Well it's not like it was all her idea. I happen to be taking a Gender class right now and everything I'm reading pretty much says the same thing. They didn't say "7 hours extra" but they pointed out that women, on average, tend to pull double duty. They have their professional jobs outside the home but still do most of the work around the house. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule, but on average that is the case. They also say women suffer more from work-family conflict than men do. I can see how it happens considering how the genders are socialized.

 

[diamondfan]

Maintaining a home is about two people. I assume there are chores that one is better at or likes, and they can chose those, the rest have to be divvied up somehow. A wife is not just someone who cooks, cleans and does laundry. No offense, if that is what he wants he should get a maid and save the money he would have spent on a diamond.

Wouldn''t this be something to discuss with her, and maybe they can figure it out together?!

 

[surfgirl]

Do we NEED to know how to take care of the home to get engaged??

Not as long as you know how to make reservations, and hire a housekeeper.

 

[diamondfan]

PS I think it would be nice if she had time on her own just for her own sake. I also think it is nice if one can care for him or herself, I do not think you marry someone for their chore doing ability but you want someone who is somewhat capable and not looking to you to do it all.

 

[miss_flo]

Date: 7/14/2008 7:43:36 PM
Author: luckystar112
As much as some don''t want to believe it, there is a breed of early to mid twenty-somethings that have NO clue how to take care of themselves, let alone another person. I blame the parents who appear to coddle to their child''s every need.


So I don''t think this is sexist at all. If I met a man who was anything like my step-sister (and I have) I''d be wondering how they could possibly be a good husband someday.

Completely, completely agree. I''m 24 myself and can''t imagine half my friends getting married because they''re not independent enough to care for themselves yet. I understand your coworker''s concerns on a general rather than gender-specific perspective. I would never marry a man who hadn''t learned how to take care of himself first.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/14/2008 11:17:22 AM
Author: KimberlyH
Or perhaps he''s concerned about marrying a 23 year old who can''t take care of herself, i.e. doesn''t know how to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. and so he fears he''ll have to do it all himself or live in squalor? I think his concerns are valid, I wouldn''t have wanted to to marry a man who doesn''t know how to cook, clean, do his own laundry as I don''t believe it''s my wifely duty to do those things for him. I don''t think my husband would have married me if I couldn''t do any of the things adults need to, to care for themselves and their home and I would have agreed with him. It would be like having a child as opposed to a life partner.

ETA: This is not to say if someone is a horrible cook that he/she shouldn''t get married, etc. I just mean that according to the OP neither of these people appears to have handled any domestic adult responsibilities and it would be good for both of them to gain some life experience, having to take care of themselves, before they get married.

So to answer the question in your title, I would say, yes, I think both men and women who are getting married should have some understanding of what it takes to manage a home before getting engaged/married.

Ding ding!

This is what I thought too. Maybe his concern about having a good "wife" is more about having a good PARTNER. A partner should bring something to the table...even if that means s/he can take care of him/herself.

 

[supergirl10]

I am 22 (same age as girl in story) but i haven''t lived at home for 5 years. It was a huge adjustment as my mother did everything for me. I helped with chores in holidays but during school terms she did everything for me. In her defence i was studying like a manic to get into medicine at uni, but still i wish i would have done more around home than what i did.

Fastforward 2 years ago (i was 20, he was 26) when i moved in with SO and it was a big adjustment to sort out who did what job ect. I am a full time student, plus work part-time. So i didn''t feel it was fair of him to expect me to do all the chores around the house, but he felt i wasn''t doing enough (which was probably true). It was a BIG issue for him and one of the reason we are not already engaged, because he didn''t think i was capable and he wanted it to be a partnership. So in a way he was a bit like the guy in OP''s story, except not as sexist.

At the moment i feel like we have a good system. I cook, clean the house, bath, toilet, wash the clothes and do the ironing. He folds the clothes puts them away, takes out rubbish, does yard and helps with other things some nights.

 

[bobbin]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:14:37 PM
Author: thing2of2
Also, I think it''s pretty strange that he started dating her when she was 19 and living with mom and dad and he was 26. If he wanted to be with someone who is self-sufficient, he should have started dating someone who lived by herself and was out of her teens.

I was 19 and living at home when my boyfriend (who was 25 at the time and had been living out of home for six years) and I started dating. There was nothing strange about it. We were both attracted to each other and liked who the other person was. However, I come across as a very independent person.

Moonwater- I wish my SO did that! I study full time and up until a week ago worked two part time jobs and played sport. I come home absolutely exhausted... I can manage to force myself to cook something before I collapse and then after I collapse there is no hope for getting up again except to go to bed. The house is a HUGE mess at exam time. If my boyfriend cooked and cleaned for me during that time it would make it so much easier for me!!

 

[HollyS]

My thoughts? Neither of them is ready for marriage. He doesn''t know it''s a 50/50 proposition, and wants to be taken care of. She''s never taken care of herself.

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Date: 7/14/2008 7:43:36 PM
Author: luckystar112
Hmmm...call me old fashioned, but I don''t take offense to his concerns at all.
Perhaps we are missing something here. Do you think that he decided overnight that he didn''t want to propose anymore, or did something precipitate that thought?

My step-sister is 22, living at home, and can''t do a darn thing for herself. She has her father make her food. My mom does her laundry. Her mother fills out her W2s for her. The girl has never paid a bill in her life. Could your co-worker be realizing that he is about to marry THIS girl...because I''ll tell you one thing, this girl is not a woman.

One of my best friends from high school is 25 and just moved out of the house...ONLY because one of her friends said that she would pay all of the rent for that summer. I guarantee she''ll be back at her parent''s house come September.

As much as some don''t want to believe it, there is a breed of early to mid twenty-somethings that have NO clue how to take care of themselves, let alone another person. I blame the parents who appear to coddle to their child''s every need.

So I don''t think this is sexist at all. If I met a man who was anything like my step-sister (and I have) I''d be wondering how they could possibly be a good husband someday.

I couldn''t agree more.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 7/15/2008 1:31:35 AM
Author: supergirl10
At the moment i feel like we have a good system. I cook, clean the house, bath, toilet, wash the clothes and do the ironing. He folds the clothes puts them away, takes out rubbish, does yard and helps with other things some nights.

Careful Supergirl! Sounds like you are on the slow track to putting in the most hours (by far)! Those sneaky guys! Anyway, off to the clothes folding now.

My man''s watching footy.
Goodnight PS!

 

[jcarlylew]

I agree to, especially about the 20 somethings that cannot take care of ourselves (i am 25 and STILL learning how to buget...yuck). I hope people realize that sometimes its not always a bad thing. In case of my family, both parents grew up military and HAD to do everything. So when they moved they "vowed to not treat their children that way." Yes, i still had chores, but mom and dad where ALWAYS there when i feel down hard. infact, they were there to catch me before i hit rock bottom. Sometimes my dad blames himself for not teaching his girls better, but i say "Dad, you gave us a WONDERFUL life, and despite the fact we cannot balance a check book does not mean you didnt raise us a decent human beings!"

wow. rant there

that said, boyf does the massive cleaning and grilling, i cook in the kitchen and wetvac the carpets. and i make him pick up the dog poop outside

. We both do the laundry and i remind him how to fold.

case of the coworker - I agree if he cant figure out that a relationship is 50/50 then HE is not ready. Or, did he plan on paying this girl to be his maid as well?

 

[iwannaprettyone]

Guess I''m lucky, FI is paying for a maid once he moves home again as he hates seeing me clean especially on the weekends when he is ready to go play.

I cook and clean and have been on my own for 8 years.

ETA: you don''t have to be able to do squat to get engaged, by why the heck would anyone get married if the parties were not independently independent?

 

[fieryred33143]

Their whole relationship is weird. She''s 22/23 but she''s a young 22/23 year old. He''s 29 but a very, very old 29 year old. Sometimes I will comment to my boyfriend that if I were her, I would have left a while ago. Maybe she likes being at home but at that age you should be out having fun and making a name for yourself...not with someone that acts like he''s in his 80s.

Another thing is that there was a time when he commented to me that he doesn''t understand how after 6 years we aren''t engaged yet and that moving in with soemone ruins the feeling of getting engaged (whatever...everyone''s entitled to their opinion). But then he also said that he thinks after 3 years you should be engaged. Another time he mentioned that he didn''t know if she was the one for him because he didn''t get that feeling with her. Being the over analytical person that I am, I''m thinking that because they are hitting their 3 year mark maybe he feels obligated to propose even though he may not really feel like he wants to marry her and is now using this whole cleaning/cooking thing as an excuse. That''s my one year as a psychology major coming into play LOL

 

[fieryred33143]

Their whole relationship is weird. She''s 22/23 but she''s a young 22/23 year old. He''s 29 but a very, very old 29 year old. Sometimes I will comment to my boyfriend that if I were her, I would have left a while ago. Maybe she likes being at home but at that age you should be out having fun and making a name for yourself...not with someone that acts like he''s in his 80s.

Another thing is that there was a time when he commented to me that he doesn''t understand how after 6 years we aren''t engaged yet and that moving in with soemone ruins the feeling of getting engaged (whatever...everyone''s entitled to their opinion). But then he also said that he thinks after 3 years you should be engaged. Another time he mentioned that he didn''t know if she was the one for him because he didn''t get that feeling with her. Being the over analytical person that I am, I''m thinking that because they are hitting their 3 year mark maybe he feels obligated to propose even though he may not really feel like he wants to marry her and is now using this whole cleaning/cooking thing as an excuse. That''s my one year as a psychology major coming into play LOL

 

[jcarlylew]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 175px">Date: 7/18/2008 2:09:17 PM
Author: fieryred33143
Their whole relationship is weird. She''s 22/23 but she''s a young 22/23 year old. He''s 29 but a very, very old 29 year old. Sometimes I will comment to my boyfriend that if I were her, I would have left a while ago. Maybe she likes being at home but at that age you should be out having fun and making a name for yourself...not with someone that acts like he''s in his 80s.

Another thing is that there was a time when he commented to me that he doesn''t understand how after 6 years we aren''t engaged yet and that moving in with soemone ruins the feeling of getting engaged (whatever...everyone''s entitled to their opinion). But then he also said that he thinks after 3 years you should be engaged. Another time he mentioned that he didn''t know if she was the one for him because he didn''t get that feeling with her. Being the over analytical person that I am, I''m thinking that because they are hitting their 3 year mark maybe he feels obligated to propose even though he may not really feel like he wants to marry her and is now using this whole cleaning/cooking thing as an excuse. That''s my one year as a psychology major coming into play LOL

you hit the nail on the head. when its not right, its not right. to bad people (generalizing, of course) can''t just admit it, insted find petty reasons why it wont work.

 

[Tuckins1]

The quote "doesn''t know how to be a wife" really gets my goat. No, I don''t think that a woman has to "know how" to cook and clean in order to be a "good wife". However, I can see his point that she doesn''t really know how to take care of herself because she has never been on her own. I do feel that it is important to be able to run a household (meaning budgeting, cooking, cleaning, maintenance/upkeep, etc...) I feel that being able to take care of all of these responsibilities helps a person to grow up and be (at least a little bit) more mature. But the idea that a wife has to cook and clean to be a good wife... Grrr!!!

 

[purrfectpear]

If they don''t get engaged, I think they both dodged a bullet. They just don''t sound compatible in terms of style or expectations.

 

[PawnShopHustler]

When I meet my BF it was obvious how old fashioned he was.
This might end up being a problem.
(You know, crap like women aren''t supposed to shave

or cut their hair, WTF!)


He should express what he expects of a wife to her.

 

[LaraOnline]

This thread''s still at the top, so I feel compelled to reply (properly)

I''m deathly afraid the guy is a jerk. It is interesting that he is concerned about the girlfriend''s inability to manage a house, when he also is living at home with his parents.

Perhaps he views marriage as simply a mechanism for getting his day-to-day needs met?
He sounds self-centred, and fussy.

I feel sorry for the girlfriend. Undoubtedly, he is still ''seeing'' her, and hasn''t the honour to tell her that he has considered her unsuitable as a wife.

Perhaps he''s hoping she''ll mature at her 25th birthday, like cheese!