Do you get Botox? Why or why not?

[FL_runner]

@ItsMainelyYou, If I recall correctly @AprilBaby had Botox to treat migraines. I believe she said it helped a great deal and insurance paid a majority of the cost. I’m sorry you suffer from migranes. They are awful to deal with.

For my headache treatment insurance covered it.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Thank you for the information @empliau @Mreader @Calliecake @FL_runner
I'm definitely asking about it. I've tried Imitrex and Maxalt in the past and they just didn't do anything. I was on Topamax as well for a time, it actually worked, but I lost a third of my lexicon permanently and developed kidney stones.
I do need to see a dedicated neuro- it's time.

 

[pearlsngems]

I don't have any medical conditions that would benefit from Botox, and I prefer to age naturally, so no.

 

[diamondyes]

So are people that use facial lotions, make up hair dye, also without integrity, honesty, inauthentic and of not good character?

You statement seems to be wildly judgmental as well as misconnected. How is keeping yourself youthful showing a lack of integrity or honesty? How is ones god character tied to showing your age? Unless you equating people to goods for sale it make no sense.

A person that dyes their hair and gets botox is not the same as a bakery offering stale bread as fresh.

I didn’t take it to mean you have to choose one or the other (integrity etc or youthful appearance). Just that you could choose to value internal qualities rather than focusing on the outside.

In short, priorities. Of course you could prioritize both.

 

[diamondyes]

I have gotten Botox just in my TMJ due to jaw clenching- I was waking up every night at 4 am with awful tension headaches and tons of pain over the joint and surrounding muscles and a little Botox helped immensely. Haven’t done it for anti aging but I think it can be a good medical tool. And if someone wants to try it cosmetically and likes the results why not- for me I don’t have deep lines/wrinkles and like to have full expressive range. But who knows if I’ll change my mind in the future. In general I like the theory of looking my age but good/well groomed for my age not trying to look younger than I am, but I’m only in my mid 40s.

I like that Phrasing- well groomed for my age is a goal I could really get behind!

 

[caf]

I have gotten Botox just in my TMJ due to jaw clenching- I was waking up every night at 4 am with awful tension headaches and tons of pain over the joint and surrounding muscles and a little Botox helped immensely. Haven’t done it for anti aging but I think it can be a good medical tool. And if someone wants to try it cosmetically and likes the results why not- for me I don’t have deep lines/wrinkles and like to have full expressive range. But who knows if I’ll change my mind in the future. In general I like the theory of looking my age but good/well groomed for my age not trying to look younger than I am, but I’m only in my mid 40s.

Yes, in addition to migraine points, I get it in my TMJ too. It has helped with my clenching! I’m not against it for cosmetic reasons either. On some people it looks great!

 

[caf]

Thank you for the information @empliau @Mreader @Calliecake @FL_runner
I'm definitely asking about it. I've tried Imitrex and Maxalt in the past and they just didn't do anything. I was on Topamax as well for a time, it actually worked, but I lost a third of my lexicon permanently and developed kidney stones.
I do need to see a dedicated neuro- it's time.

Insurance covers mine. I’ve tried all the drugs. Botox works the best for me as a preventative. My neurologist does it.

 

[nala]

No bc I hear it doesn’t work for the “11” between my eyes on my forehead that I have had since I was 30. I am 49 and all my friends claim they are jealous bc I have no wrinkles. I will say I have dark skin and am prone to facial hair. I have been using the flawless razor? To remove facial hair since 2020. I think a positive effect of shaving off this hair is kind of like what happens to men—they seem to age better bc they shave their facial hair! At least that is what I read somewhere. I forget why. Finally, I use moisturizer and sunscreen and have done so since I was 30 and only wear makeup on special occasions. Also, I have always had chubby cheeks—so that helps. And I think that wearing glasses and sunglasses since college has also helped fight off wrinkles. I am not opposed to getting botox but can honestly say that I have no need for it right now.
I would much rather find a treatment for melasma as I do have hyper pigmentation in my upper lip. And don’t get me started on the moles that keep surfacing seemingly overnight.

 

[nala]

I went back to read responses and it seems botox does help with “11’s” and that is a game changer for me! Off to research, lol

 

[Roselina]

No and never will. It might makes you look nice when you are under 50, then most can't stop and there will be the time it will look weird at best. The most beautiful older women I've seen so far have all aged naturally. It's life. Why would I want to look 30 when I'm 50? I never got that, really. If someone wants to do it - many friends of mine do and I think its totally ok, and at the moment they do look younger than me and as a result people sometimes think I'm older than I actually am even though I more or less look my real age, I don't mind. I once mentioned it to my dermatologist (as a joke when I was turning 40) and he told me no, you will look more beautiful as older as you get. So I happily believe that is true. And no hair dying either. I actually think that the white in my hair makes me look very smart .

 

[missy]

AFC - Testing of Botox on Animals

Animal Friends is a non-profit, non-governmental organization, founded in 2001 with the aim to promote animal protection and animal rights as well as veganism, as ethical, ecological and healthy lifestyle.

www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr

"
Botox is the brand name of one of the products containing the nerve poison botulinum toxin. The toxin is used for medical, and increasingly, cosmetic applications. A small injection causes the facial wrinkles disappear for several months. But the price for this short term "beauty" is paid for by the suffering and death of thousands of mice.

Each batch is tested before it reaches consumers. A sample is injected into the abdomen of mice. The mice suffer paralysis, impaired vision and respiratory distress. After three or four days of suffering they die from suffocation
The investigation records that mice become increasingly paralysed, eventually gasping for breath until finally dying as death is the usual required endpoint of the classical LD50 according to the test set-up. The degree of distress was severe and no pain relief was provided for the mice. Workers were supposed to observe the mice and identify those who were judged unlikely to survive until the next check. However, BUAV had discovered that no use was made of humane endpoints to at least avoid the most severe category of pain.

"

 

[missy]

Also, I have always had chubby cheeks—so that helps.

Me too! But I no longer do and miss them... It's funny because I always hated my "chubby" cheeks but now I realize how great they were and miss having them...

 

[HGar]

I went back to read responses and it seems botox does help with “11’s” and that is a game changer for me! Off to research, lol

@nala That is exactly where I get mine injected. It stops the repetitive action that creates the furrows. So I still have movement in my forehead and around my upper face - it just physically stops my muscles in between my eyebrows creating those two vertical lines.

 

[mrs-b]

AFC - Testing of Botox on Animals

Animal Friends is a non-profit, non-governmental organization, founded in 2001 with the aim to promote animal protection and animal rights as well as veganism, as ethical, ecological and healthy lifestyle.

www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr

"
Botox is the brand name of one of the products containing the nerve poison botulinum toxin. The toxin is used for medical, and increasingly, cosmetic applications. A small injection causes the facial wrinkles disappear for several months. But the price for this short term "beauty" is paid for by the suffering and death of thousands of mice.

Each batch is tested before it reaches consumers. A sample is injected into the abdomen of mice. The mice suffer paralysis, impaired vision and respiratory distress. After three or four days of suffering they die from suffocation
The investigation records that mice become increasingly paralysed, eventually gasping for breath until finally dying as death is the usual required endpoint of the classical LD50 according to the test set-up. The degree of distress was severe and no pain relief was provided for the mice. Workers were supposed to observe the mice and identify those who were judged unlikely to survive until the next check. However, BUAV had discovered that no use was made of humane endpoints to at least avoid the most severe category of pain.

"

Hi @missy -

Not sure if you saw my post on the previous page but they also test on rabbits. My feeling is - if you're not ok clubbing a rabbit to death every time you get botox, then botox isn't for you. Because, essentially, that's the level of mistreatment/cruelty mice and rabbits receive when used as "death end points" during botox testing. There's no pain management and no recovery - it's an excruciating death every time.

The "I just try not to think about it" line of reasoning just doesn't cut it. Sticking one's head in the sand is not an ethical way forward. Man up and get the facelift, if that's what you want - I have NO issue with wanting to look younger, or plastic surgery. But having animals die for me every six months because I want to look an age I'm not? And just not thinking about it??

Oh please.

If you're not willing to club a bunny to death every time you get botox, or wring its neck, or drown it as a mandatory requirement to getting botox, then don't get the botox. Because that's the part that's happening that you don't see. For my money, aesthetic treatments don't justify this. Medical treatments? For me - no. As I said earlier, I'd love to get botox into my trapeziums to treat some pretty debilitating head and neck pain. But nobody should be made to suffer for my comfort. So I cope in other ways. If it was lifesaving? Then ok. Your life for the bunny's life - it's a zero sum game and ok.

But short of that? It's a no from me, dawg.

 

[missy]

Hi @missy -

Not sure if you saw my post on the previous page but they also test on rabbits. My feeling is - if you're not ok clubbing a rabbit to death every time you get botox, then botox isn't for you. Because, essentially, that's the level of mistreatment/cruelty mice and rabbits receive when used as "death end points" during botox testing. There's no pain management and no recovery - it's an excruciating death every time.

The "I just try not to think about it" line of reasoning just doesn't cut it. Sticking one's head in the sand is not an ethical way forward. Man up and get the facelift, if that's what you want - I have NO issue with wanting to look younger, or plastic surgery. But having animals die for me every six months because I want to look an age I'm not? And just not thinking about it??

Oh please.

If you're not willing to club a bunny to death every time you get botox, or wring its neck, or drown it as a mandatory requirement to getting botox, then don't get the botox. Because that's the part that's happening that you don't see. For my money, aesthetic treatments don't justify this. Medical treatments? For me - no. As I said earlier, I'd love to get botox into my trapeziums to treat some pretty debilitating head and neck pain. But nobody should be made to suffer for my comfort. So I cope in other ways. If it was lifesaving? Then ok. Your life for the bunny's life - it's a zero sum game and ok.

But short of that? It's a no from me, dawg.

@mrs-b we are on the same page and in my first post in this thread I said I don’t judge but didn’t realize animals were tortured horribly and murdered for this. So yeah I am judging. It’s so NOT ok

 

[missy]

https://www.facebook.com/CrueltyFreeInternational/photos/a.193399254110436/991178974332456

.

Link above re testing Botox on mice and rabbits (botox is also tested on bunnies in the same manner that it's tested on mice).

I was thinking about getting botox injections into my trapezius muscles to address some pretty hideous neck pain and headaches. Not now, cause I love me some bunnies!

BUNNY POWER!

Now we know so if one continues with Botox (cosmetic reasons not medical) I do think that speaks volumes about one’s character
For all those who lambasted Kenny. He’s right
And ditto @mrs-b if you don’t like what I’m writing I make no apologies and I don’t care

 

[empliau]

I do need to see a dedicated neuro- it's time.

Absolutely! I struggled for decades with prescriptions, mostly painkillers as Topamax didn't help and Maxalt and Imitrex showed signs of possibly killing me. Botox was a disappointment (and now I'm glad, as I don't know how I could balance the cruelty of the testing with the relief) but Vyepti has really helped. After my most recent head injuries I was waking in pain every day for a year and a half. Vyepti has interrupted that cycle, and the relief is indescribable.

Neurologists have many more things in their arsenal than general practitioners. If you can, try for one who specializes in migraine/pain - there are lots of subspecialties in neurology, which I didn't know till I started seeing one. And mine also has migraine, so she *really* understands.

 

[HockeyMama]

@missy , @mrs-b

I hope you are open to new sources of information.

Allergen, the major US manufacturer of Botox, uses cell based testing, since 2018 (they started in 2011), and even prior it was only batch testing on animals, not every single vial (not saying that’s better, just for clarification). While Europe was behind, they have also started used cell based testing.

I think it’s important to get all the information available before rushing to judgement. I hope this helps.

ETA: this is just one source, there are many, the US has been clean for years. Europe is still struggling.

Also ETA: the Us has plenty of problems, but this isn’t one. And we are
the biggest consumers of this product.

Also ETA: I’m vain and I use Botox for my glabellar lines (the 11s) and it markedly improved my self esteem and my outward appearance of constantly frowning. I also use leather shoes and bags and am not vegan. Despite this I think I am a good person.

 

[AprilBaby]

I see the Neurologist every three months for 31 injections in my head and neck for migraine. It has helped lessen the frequency and intensity of my migraines. I had it a week ago and my forehead is still sore. My insurance pays every penny. I highly recommend it. At 64 I am still pretty wrinkle free but it’s from good genes, not Botox.

 

[diamondyes]

Can I play devil’s advocate? I gotta say I’m curious if those who support animal rights are also vegans? Cows and chickens are cute too…

I hope I don’t regret this comment but some people (perhaps not here!) seem to prioritize the treatment of cute animals that they don’t eat, but then they buy animal produce so it makes me scratch my head.

 

[Gussie]

Every thread on ps ho seems to become a judgmental sh#$show. It's no wonder there is less traffic.

 

[FL_runner]

Absolutely! I struggled for decades with prescriptions, mostly painkillers as Topamax didn't help and Maxalt and Imitrex showed signs of possibly killing me. Botox was a disappointment (and now I'm glad, as I don't know how I could balance the cruelty of the testing with the relief) but Vyepti has really helped. After my most recent head injuries I was waking in pain every day for a year and a half. Vyepti has interrupted that cycle, and the relief is indescribable.

Neurologists have many more things in their arsenal than general practitioners. If you can, try for one who specializes in migraine/pain - there are lots of subspecialties in neurology, which I didn't know till I started seeing one. And mine also has migraine, so she *really* understands.

Agree! I have migraines and tension headache and finally asked for a referral and saw a neurologist this year after dealing with it for over a decade. My neurologist has migraine as well and is very up to date on new treatments and good at getting them approved. There’s a lot out there now it’s worth seeing someone!

 

[icy_jade]

Here we go again…

 

[Tonks]

Haven’t read all the replies, but yes, I get Botox and have for years. My migraines are horrible, so I get it as a migraine treatment rather than as a cosmetic treatment. If anyone has asked if it works for migraine, a resounding YES. However, you really do not want migraines severe enough to qualify for it. For insurance to pay for Botox for migraine you must be classified as having chronic migraine, which is more than 15 migraines per month. Migraine botox protocol is 31 shots to the head, neck, and trap areas, every 12 weeks.

I haven’t been able to raise my eyebrows in YEARS. Totally worth it.

 

[LilAlex]

I am amazed, too!

But like you say… maybe no one is talking about it?

Friends and family tend to be fit and fairly appearance-conscious. Many are in healthcare where the prospect of using actual botulinum toxin is a little like injecting just a pinch of COVID around the eyes... I know it is generally very safe but I also know about the mishaps.

I'm not opposed to the idea and I see nothing wrong with a little constructive vanity. I certainly don't think it's deceitful. The appearance "bar" is not that high in our town and region -- although there is plenty of competitive athleticism and outdoorsmanship.

EDIT: Ooh I did not see all that "virtue-signaling" signaling just above this post. I guess all of organized (and disorganized) religion is "virtue signaling" -- and so is the Golden Rule and all of the kindness that we try to instill in our children. This phrase now seems to pop up like "Bengazi"; the people who use it know exactly what this code means to them while everyone else just kinda shrugs.

Virtue matters. Kindness and compassion for other living things matter. Any time you are made to feel guilty about your choices, there is a "you" element there -- it is not just about someone else's terrible behavior in calling out your selfishness. Spouse will not use Saran wrap and has cycled through any number of awful alternatives from waxed cotton to those big silicone (for lack of a better word) "condoms" and washable silicone bags. I hate them -- and I dislike that she shames me for wanting to use Saran wrap. But it is not "virtue signaling"; she truly wants to keep plastic trash out of our waste stream and I know that she is correct and I just happen to -- at the moment -- care a little less about it than she does.

Hard to believe for some, I guess, but many people just want to do the right thing -- and the reflex outrage is far more performative than the actual act of trying to do the right thing, imo.

I am not an animal-rights absolutist. I don't think mascara should be tested on bunnies but I know that every new migraine therapy will be tested in animals and I think that's OK. The emphasis is on using as few animals as possible and using as refined a methodology as possible and with careful attention to prevention of and relief of any potential discomfort. Animal use in research is so extraordinarily tightly regulated that no one would use it for research purposes if there were a suitable alternative. And all those bogus PETA et al articles about how scientists should just use computer models are utterly ignorant; you can't model what you don't understand. We could more easily just use computer models to replace law enforcement, predict who will commit crimes, and just lock 'em up prophylactically...

 

[Poppea]

I didn’t take it to mean you have to choose one or the other (integrity etc or youthful appearance). Just that you could choose to value internal qualities rather than focusing on the outside.

In short, priorities. Of course you could prioritize both.

I was responding to Kenny who quite explicitly stated that people that use botox lack integrity, etc.

 

[marymm]

is it really virtue signaling if the thread is specifically requesting input on "why / why not"?

If people get Botox for medical reasons, that's a discussion between them and their medical providers.

But elective Botox for cosmetic reasons ... well, for me personally, I am against Botox because (1) I don't want needles in my face or anywhere, (2) I consider it invasive treatment as compared to topical applications of moisturizer/sunscreen, (3) I am not interested in chasing the illusion of the fountain of youth. PLEASE KNOW I am speaking only my own opinion as applied to my own self, and these words are not applicable to anyone posting on this thread.

I know a few people who regularly have Botox injections for cosmetic reasons -- it is perhaps not surprising that those people are quite focused on presenting as younger than their actual age -- I get it -- some people do have lines/wrinkles that cause them to present in a way that is actually inauthentic to their true self -- other people work in industries that idealize youthfulness and to keep the job/paycheck you do what you feel you must to continue to measure up to industry standards -- regardless, hopefully people are making informed decisions and have access to competent professionals.

 

[Poppea]

For all those who lambasted Kenny. He’s right

Kenny said nothing about animal testing. His entire point is that attempting to maintain youth equals the loss of integrity, honesty and other values. Indifference to animal cruelty wasn't anything on his radar.

Feel free to judge others based on the animal testing, there is certainly logic there, but Kenny wasn't using that argument.

 

[Tonks]

I think insurance will kick in. If you’ve showed you’ve tried other remedies that do not work. I take Relpax for my migraines.

I would do Botox if I weren’t cheap lol. All my disposable income goes to Jewelry.

Ok, here’s the deal. It truly works for MANY people. And it’s expensive as hell. So insurance makes it REALLY hard to get, and hard to keep once you do. It’s not as simple as failing one triptan, because triptans are classified as migraine abortive. Botox is classified as a preventative.

If you are reading and thinking about this for migraine, go to a neurologist who specializes in migraine. Like, yesterday. Start keeping a detailed log of your migraines (there are several apps you can use). Most insurance will require 15+ migraines a month lasting longer than four hours, and that’s just one of the criteria. Depending on the company they require you to have failed multiple daily preventative medications from different classes. Examples: antidepressants, anti-epileptics, beta blockers, calcium channel blockers. A smart migraine neuro will start walking you up the ladder right away.

If you’re wondering what your insurance company will require, google the name of the company plus botox and migraine and their policy should come up.

You should also know that what they require for Botox alone is nothing compared to what they require should you need Botox PLUS a CGRP inhibitor (like Emgality, Ajovy, Vyepti). I’m one of those people, unfortunately.

 

[kenny]

... His entire point is that attempting to maintain youth equals the loss of intergity and other values. ...

Folks, just read what I wrote.

You don't need anyone's help.