Do you get Botox? Why or why not?

[Gussie]

Can I play devil’s advocate? I gotta say I’m curious if those who support animal rights are also vegans? Cows and chickens are cute too…

I hope I don’t regret this comment but some people (perhaps not here!) seem to prioritize the treatment of cute animals that they don’t eat, but then they buy animal produce so it makes me scratch my head.

Leather shoes and handbags? Kinda hard to pearl clutch when you realize it kills the oyster.

 

[empliau]

Ok, here’s the deal. It truly works for MANY people. And it’s expensive as hell. So insurance makes it REALLY hard to get, and hard to keep once you do. It’s not as simple as failing one triptan, because triptans are classified as migraine abortive. Botox is classified as a preventative.

If you are reading and thinking about this for migraine, go to a neurologist who specializes in migraine. Like, yesterday. Start keeping a detailed log of your migraines (there are several apps you can use). Most insurance will require 15+ migraines a month lasting longer than four hours, and that’s just one of the criteria. Depending on the company they require you to have failed multiple daily preventative medications from different classes. Examples: antidepressants, anti-epileptics, beta blockers, calcium channel blockers. A smart migraine neuro will start walking you up the ladder right away.

If you’re wondering what your insurance company will require, google the name of the company plus botox and migraine and their policy should come up.

You should also know that what they require for Botox alone is nothing compared to what they require should you need Botox PLUS a CGRP inhibitor (like Emgality, Ajovy, Vyepti). I’m one of those people, unfortunately.

As Harlan Ellison said, I have been in this elevator before. I am an Emgality failure. Although I have injected myself for infertility treatment, and couldn't understand why the Emgality shots hurt like the devil when I had no trouble with the hormones. Turns out (who knew? maybe everyone but me) that different shots have different pain levels. (Not to scare off anyone Emgality might help, because if it had I'd have sucked it up as the shot is only once a month, but it didn't help me.) It took about a year and a half of trying everything before I was approved for Botox, and then after that didn't work, Vyepti.

As Tonks so wisely says, document everything. Insurance companies demand that you try everything and then some before they'll approve newer, and sometimes more expensive, treatments

 

[Mreader]

Can I play devil’s advocate? I gotta say I’m curious if those who support animal rights are also vegans? Cows and chickens are cute too…

I hope I don’t regret this comment but some people (perhaps not here!) seem to prioritize the treatment of cute animals that they don’t eat, but then they buy animal produce so it makes me scratch my head.

This - 100%.

 

[Tonks]

As Harlan Ellison said, I have been in this elevator before. I am an Emgality failure. Although I have injected myself for infertility treatment, and couldn't understand why the Emgality shots hurt like the devil when I had no trouble with the hormones. Turns out (who knew? maybe everyone but me) that different shots have different pain levels. (Not to scare off anyone Emgality might help, because if it had I'd have sucked it up as the shot is only once a month, but it didn't help me.) It took about a year and a half of trying everything before I was approved for Botox, and then after that didn't work, Vyepti.

As Tonks so wisely says, document everything. Insurance companies demand that you try everything and then some before they'll approve newer, and sometimes more expensive, treatments

Oh yeah, the autoinjectors suck and hurt like hell. But the one I have now is much better than the old Sumavel autoinjector. It literally used air and blew a hole in your skin. At least the one I use now (Ajovy) uses a needle. I’m so sorry you had to work your way up to Vyepti. My insurance makes that extra challenging. I think you have to have failed the other CGRPs and maybe gepants as well before they allow Vyepti.

My daughter inherited my migraines so i have spent way more time than I would like neck deep in insurance requirements—both of us have chronic migraine.

 

[Un_Petit_Rayon_de_Soleil]

I find many times that I avoid posting in many of the threads here because the judgement is rampant. It doesn't take long for a post to turn into a (many times ugly) debate.

*Edited to add a sentence and remove the word ethics. It was the wrong word for the type of exchange that I avoid on the forum due to how they generally turn out.

 

[marymm]

aren't ethics applicable to basically every decision/action each person/actor makes/takes?

or, I guess more accurately, shouldn't ethics be applicable to every decision made and every action taken?

even more accurately, I do wish wholeheartedly that ethics were vigorously applied by every person/actor who is making any decision or taking any action

 

[AprilBaby]

I would not do the Botox just for vanity, it hurts waaaay too much.

 

[empliau]

Oh yeah, the autoinjectors suck and hurt like hell. But the one I have now is much better than the old Sumavel autoinjector. It literally used air and blew a hole in your skin. At least the one I use now (Ajovy) uses a needle. I’m so sorry you had to work your way up to Vyepti. My insurance makes that extra challenging. I think you have to have failed the other CGRPs and maybe gepants as well before they allow Vyepti.

My daughter inherited my migraines so i have spent way more time than I would like neck deep in insurance requirements—both of us have chronic migraine.

I'm so sorry that your daughter has inherited this curse, but at least she is in a world with better treatment. I am unbelievably grateful that my daughter, who is in her early twenties, shows no sign of migraine. My mother had them, my brother does (takes eight Advil at a time). My mother had, at one point, *five* bleeding ulcers probably caused by Advil overuse. And one sister developed them in her late twenties, so I'm still watching my daughter carefully.

 

[LilAlex]

I find many times that I avoid posting in many of the threads here because the judgement is rampant. It doesn't take long for a post to turn into a ethics debate.

An ethics debate is not a terrible thing. Some are just here to make a scene -- throw a bomb and run away -- and others are trying to make sense of the whole thing.

I think this is why some seem to have the perception that their dissenting view (or even worldview) is not given time on PS. It is. Make your case. If your case is anti-kindness, anti-tolerance, or anti-compassion, it's admittedly a harder case to make -- but there are some things for which tolerance is not warranted.

I've changed how I say and do a lot of things since I was a kid -- and based largely on what others have pointed out to me. Not everything -- I still love animal protein more than I cringe at the cruelty of industrial-scale agribusiness. But I don't think vegans are merely "virtue signaling" or taking delight in their superior enlightenment.

 

[kenny]

I find many times that I avoid posting in many of the threads here because the judgement is rampant. It doesn't take long for a post to turn into a ethics debate.

So, you've judged that ethics debates are bad.

 

[nala]

@nala That is exactly where I get mine injected. It stops the repetitive action that creates the furrows. So I still have movement in my forehead and around my upper face - it just physically stops my muscles in between my eyebrows creating those two vertical lines.

Does it hurt? How often do you have to do it?

 

[musicloveranthony]

@nala That is exactly where I get mine injected. It stops the repetitive action that creates the furrows. So I still have movement in my forehead and around my upper face - it just physically stops my muscles in between my eyebrows creating those two vertical lines.

This is what I want too. I have a smooth forehead that naturally doesn't move much, but by brows furrow almost constantly because i have heavy RBF

 

[Un_Petit_Rayon_de_Soleil]

So, you've judged that ethics debates are bad.

I changed my wording a bit ago. Ethics wasn't really the correct word.

However, in my own judgement....I think these types of posts have a way of turning out badly. Hopefully it does not.

 

[Gussie]

Does it hurt? How often do you have to do it?

It works wonders for the 11s. It softens them while resting but I still have full range of expression. I don't think it hurts but I have a pretty high pain tolerance and am not afraid of needles. They can numb you with lidocaine if you are really worried. When you first get botox it wears off after a few months. The longer you get it, the longer it lasts. When I first started, it lasted 4 months. Now it lasts 6. I just got some last week and decided to try it in my neck to see how well that works. I didn't kick any puppies while I was there either lol.

 

[HockeyMama]

I'm a victim of my own hypocrisy... except that I'm not that deep. I botox the 11s because I hate looking mean, but not my crow's feet because I wear my age with a badge of honor. I also will never dye my very gray hair, but I think it's because I'm too lazy for the maintenance to keep it looking good. I would love a boob job so that I fit into off the rack dresses better, but I'm a doctor so I'm afraid of elective general anesthesia.

People are complicated.

 

[Roselina]

I think it‘s weird that many take Botox for migraine prevention. I suffer from severe chronic migraine and am treated by a specialist at a University Hospital. Quite a few treatments were explained to me. I tried some. Botox was never even mentioned.

 

[empliau]

I think it‘s weird that many take Botox for migraine prevention. I suffer from severe chronic migraine and am treated by a specialist at a University Hospital. Quite a few treatments were explained to me. I tried some. Botox was never even mentioned.

Is the treatment successful? If it is, then why should it have been mentioned to you? It's expensive and can be painful.

Is the treatment not successful? Ask about other treatments. Many insurers don't want to pay for expensive treatments.

Something isn't weird just because you haven't heard of it. I'm based in the US and many people have had their migraine incidence significantly reduced by botox. It doesn't help everyone, but migraine is an extremely complicated disease with probably multiple causes. There's a strong genetic link, and a link to head trauma. Probably other stuff too. I am not a doctor, but I do have 58 years of migraine experience.

 

[Mreader]

Is the treatment successful? If it is, then why should it have been mentioned to you? It's expensive and can be painful.

Is the treatment not successful? Ask about other treatments. Many insurers don't want to pay for expensive treatments.

Something isn't weird just because you haven't heard of it. I'm based in the US and many people have had their migraine incidence significantly reduced by botox. It doesn't help everyone, but migraine is an extremely complicated disease with probably multiple causes. There's a strong genetic link, and a link to head trauma. Probably other stuff too. I am not a doctor, but I do have 58 years of migraine experience.

As another migraine sufferer, and it appears that many of you are, maybe we should start a migraine thread!

 

[telephone89]

I've wanted to get it for my 11s for a while now, but I haven't taken the plunge. I'm not scared of needles, but I'm scared of injecting a toxin lol. Plus it's pricey.
I have a friend who lives in South Korea and botox is cheap and plentiful there. I think she said she pays like $40 for her 11s?!

 

[kenny]

Around every other month I'll get terrible a vision migraine.
I immediate put earplugs in, lights off and take a nap.
Works every time.

I get old-age wrinkles too.
That's usual at my age, so Big Whoop!
At least I'm still above ground."

I can't imagine injecting Botulism toxin into my body.
But people vary; so if you like that, do it.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

As another migraine sufferer, and it appears that many of you are, maybe we should start a migraine thread!

I would be all for it! I think I'm a bit scared, not just for the migraine but for the MRI I now need to have. There's a history of issues. I can't bring myself to talk about it on my own.

 

[empliau]

I started a migraine thread, for anyone who is interested. I'm so sorry about your issues, @ItsMainelyYou , please share anything you're comfortable with sharing.

 

[Tonks]

I would be all for it! I think I'm a bit scared, not just for the migraine but for the MRI I now need to have. There's a history of issues. I can't bring myself to talk about it on my own.

Always happy to talk migraine. Way the hell more experience than I would like.

I do feel compelled to add that if I didn’t use botox for migraine, I would absolutely be using it cosmetically. Judging cosmetic botox as somehow morally problematic does not sit well with me, at least not in a world where it is economically advantageous for women to look as young and as attractive as possible. Can’t find the article anywhere, but I vividly remember reading an article fairly recently that said that it made economic sense to get Botox—women who look younger and better are compensated more highly. Is that fair? Hell no. But I won’t judge any woman for her choices in this department.

 

[Roselina]

Is the treatment successful? If it is, then why should it have been mentioned to you? It's expensive and can be painful.

Is the treatment not successful? Ask about other treatments. Many insurers don't want to pay for expensive treatments.

Something isn't weird just because you haven't heard of it. I'm based in the US and many people have had their migraine incidence significantly reduced by botox. It doesn't help everyone, but migraine is an extremely complicated disease with probably multiple causes. There's a strong genetic link, and a link to head trauma. Probably other stuff too. I am not a doctor, but I do have 58 years of migraine experience.

They explained what treatments are possible with such a severe form of migraine and which ones make sense. The first one was horrible with side effects like depression and loosing weight (which some think is nice but I constantly felt sick). It worked well against the migraine, though. As for now I’m on another medication which works as well but side effect: I gain weight fast. I hate migraine.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I've wanted to get it for my 11s for a while now, but I haven't taken the plunge. I'm not scared of needles, but I'm scared of injecting a toxin lol. Plus it's pricey.
I have a friend who lives in South Korea and botox is cheap and plentiful there. I think she said she pays like $40 for her 11s?!

FWIW it really depends on how much you need/want. I actually get Dysport instead of botox, it's a bit "softer" which I prefer since I go more for an "ease" than a "freeze", it's $4 a unit at my injector. I spend about $200 every 3-4 months. I WISH it was $40 though! Oh my!

 

[missy]

Can I play devil’s advocate? I gotta say I’m curious if those who support animal rights are also vegans? Cows and chickens are cute too…

I hope I don’t regret this comment but some people (perhaps not here!) seem to prioritize the treatment of cute animals that they don’t eat, but then they buy animal produce so it makes me scratch my head.

Yes I am vegan. Yes I care about all animals. Not just the cute and cuddly ones. In fact I prefer animals to many humans. I believe they have a right to exist just as much as we do and I do not believe in torturing and murdering them for one's vanity. I know many issues are not black and white and I do not judge those who eat animals (with a few exceptions) but to use them for getting rid of wrinkles etc? So you look "prettier" "younger"...No. That is not OK. I am not virtue signaling. This is how I truly feel and for those who don't care I don't care about you if you think it's OK to torture and murder animals. And it is on you to know what consequences your actions have.

 

[missy]

Here's the Migraine Thread @empliau started

Migraine

Hi all! Especially welcome migraine sufferers, migraineurs, migraineuses, and family/friends who have migraine people in their circle! I have suffered from migraine since before kindergarten. Strong family history (mother, brother, sister) and multiple concussions, including a severe head...

www.pricescope.com

 

[missy]

I find many times that I avoid posting in many of the threads here because the judgement is rampant. It doesn't take long for a post to turn into a (many times ugly) debate.

*Edited to add a sentence and remove the word ethics. It was the wrong word for the type of exchange that I avoid on the forum due to how they generally turn out.

Without ethics where are we as a nation? Where is our humanity? Not all judging is bad

 

[missy]

An ethics debate is not a terrible thing. Some are just here to make a scene -- throw a bomb and run away -- and others are trying to make sense of the whole thing.

I think this is why some seem to have the perception that their dissenting view (or even worldview) is not given time on PS. It is. Make your case. If your case is anti-kindness, anti-tolerance, or anti-compassion, it's admittedly a harder case to make -- but there are some things for which tolerance is not warranted.

I've changed how I say and do a lot of things since I was a kid -- and based largely on what others have pointed out to me. Not everything -- I still love animal protein more than I cringe at the cruelty of industrial-scale agribusiness. But I don't think vegans are merely "virtue signaling" or taking delight in their superior enlightenment.

Thank you Alex and yes exactly. I cannot speak for all animal lovers but kindness, compassion, empathy are huge priorities in my life and that includes animals. I find much human behavior to be pretty disheartening but I cannot control others. I do what I can for animals as they are true innocents in all this and so few step up to the plate to defend and protect them. Many people see them as disposable. Many people don't care about the cruelty inflicted upon them. And it breaks my heart. They are living breathing beings and deserve respect and deserve a decent quality of life. And if others think otherwise. If others think because humans are "smarter" they are "better" than animals well, they are wrong. In fact, in my book animals are better than many people but that is another thread for another day

 

[Tonks]

FWIW it really depends on how much you need/want. I actually get Dysport instead of botox, it's a bit "softer" which I prefer since I go more for an "ease" than a "freeze", it's $4 a unit at my injector. I spend about $200 every 3-4 months. I WISH it was $40 though! Oh my!

I’ve heard that Dysport lasts longer than Botox. Does it for you? I always end up with headaches ramping up like crazy when I’m near my next due date for injections. Wish I could try and find out but the only one they will use for migraine is the original Botox.