Drunk words...Sober Thoughts?

[HollyS]

Date: 3/23/2009 5:48:33 PM
Author: littlemissbliss

When someone shows you who they are -- believe them. I would run like hell.

Absolutely. You have no reason to forgive or stay. Don''t.

 

[trillionaire]

A few things:

* the way he reacted was unacceptable.

* I think a break might be a good idea. Men + joblessness are not a good combo, because it is often tangled with their pride. He probably feels that he has nothing to offer you (which may be accurate at this point), and he is freaked and lashing out. That does not excuse it, however, and you should not consider getting back together until he gets counseling.

* "Its over between us isn''t it? Everytime you look at me its like you are angry or upset but won''t tell me why." - you said this to him. You knew something was wrong before this night, and before this interaction occurred. It is up to you to stop justifying things, you already knew that things were going south, seems to me.

* NO ONE that I know jokes about murder. You may say that he was drunk, that might just mean that he wouldn''t hurt you, or himself, UNTIL he is drunk. Not really a gamble most people are willing to take...

 

[D2B]

Ok, I cant quote but wink elf summs it up for me pretty well.

On top of the mooching, not being responsible for himself, the drunken talk about strippers (which is enough to make you consider if this is father/husband material,

He THREATEND you, with MURDER OMG - what else can I say.

option 1.no sane normal person no matter how drunk will say this no matter how depressed , down or stressed - no way.

option 2. if he said this (and therefore thought it), because of this medication/ drink mix up, well then run fast now, because next time he has a reaction like that and you are in the same room, how do you know he wont act out these thoughts - you read about it often enough - phsicotic rage, drugs and violence- dont mean to scare you, but seriously they are the only two options - I could not sleep next to him comfortably once those words had been said.

Love is not enough sometimes. you might love him, but his issues wont be solved by your love. I am scared for you - option 1 or option 2, neither are good

 

[katamari]

Do you know for sure that he sent the texts? If he was that drunk, could it be possible that someone took his phone and sent them? The messages just don''t seem cohesive to me (like they weren''t sent by the same person or something), and I am trying to make sense of it any way possible. I teach college classes and, sadly, many of my students do these kind of things as pranks. But if the comments were actually made by him, I am not even able to put myself in your position enough to offer advice. I think you are doing the right thing by talking to your therapist about it.

That said, though, one of my college roommates was on anti-depressants and whenever she would drink, even a little, she would really loose it--as in become extremely mentally unstable. I think it is a bad and powerful combination.

 

[babygirl]

Wow prettyinpink, I''m really sorry to hear all of this. I agree with trillionaire that maybe a break is a good idea... it will give you both time to clear your heads to see if this relationship is what you really want in light of what happened. I don''t know that this is the case (nor do I want to play devil''s advocate here), but I definitely know a (VERY immature) guy or two who has behaved badly in hopes that his gf would break up with him and save him the trouble of getting his hands dirty. This may not be the case, but it might also be something to think about. Re the "murder text", I know this isn''t popular opinion and definitely not particularly PC, but I don''t think it was meant to be a threat- just him trying to let you know that he''s mad but not knowing how to express himself- see previous texts for proof of lack of eloquence.

Now, from the text you sent him, it sounds like you two were fighting already. (And in the future, try to avoid fighting via text... it''s like fighting over email- it''s really just a waste of time and solves nothing). Should you decide to forgive him and stay together, among other things, you both need to learn how to argue, and more importantly, how to communicate. His obnoxious messages were extremely childish, but (sorry to be harsh) so was your decision to broach the "it''s over, isn''t it?" topic in a text. Relationships are often a lot of work, but it''s hard to really even get things off the ground without the lines of communication being open, and it doesn''t sound like yours are quite there yet.

What happened over the weekend is likely why he doesn''t drink very often.. it''s quite possible that he''s an alcoholic (in a ''doesn''t recognize himself when he drinks'' sort of way). (I''ve had a few friends who have quit drinking entirely for that very reason). That, coupled with the depression is really a double-edged sword. If you stay with him, I''d make certain that he gets help for both issues before things can return to ''normal''.

From your other comments about supporting him, his unemployment, etc- it''s hard to tell whether a lot of his frustrations arise from that situation (guys generally like to be providers and often have a hard time when the tables are turned), or whether he is really just (I hate to say it) using you and then making you feel guilty about it. You sound like a real sweetheart and it sounds like you''re head over heels for your bf, but from the inside, love tends to make even the most opaque situations seem murky. So if you can, I''d keep that in mind and try to examine your relationship from an outsider''s perspective.

pretty, I really feel for you. You''re in a really tough situation and two years is a long time to throw away, but only you know what you''re willing to put up with. I don''t know where you go from here (or even where you WANT to go from here), but I''d talk to your therapist and close friends (preferably, as someone mentioned, the "no-nonsense" ones), and make sure your bf starts seeing a therapist as well. We can all give you advice until we''re blue in the faces (or the fingers!), but only you can follow your heart... I hope it leads you in the right direction. I wish you bon courage in the coming weeks. Please come back to vent whenever you need to!

 

[Winks_Elf]

Sorry, but I''d say forget going to therapists, trying to talk it out with friends, etc. You''re not engaged to him yet, you don''t live together...break it off before you DO become more involved. It should not be this difficult when you are dating. If he''s like this now, God only knows what problems will pop up in the future with this guy. The relationship is a cancer waiting to take over your entire life, and possibly ruin or end it. Cut it out now before it gets worse, and move on to a healthy relationship.

 

[LaraOnline]

I have to agree with Winks that if you are not married, or even engaged, you are not committed to the point where you are expected to carry this can.

You are dating and as such, you are socially expected to put your individual life first.

You have many years of having to consider ''sucking it up for the kids'', if that is where your love life leads you... don''t do it at this stage, when you have no responsibilities whatsoever, and are still young enough to do whatever you want in life, for crying out loud!!!

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 3/24/2009 9:40:30 AM
Author: Winks_Elf
Sorry, but I''d say forget going to therapists, trying to talk it out with friends, etc. You''re not engaged to him yet, you don''t live together...break it off before you DO become more involved. It should not be this difficult when you are dating. If he''s like this now, God only knows what problems will pop up in the future with this guy. The relationship is a cancer waiting to take over your entire life, and possibly ruin or end it. Cut it out now before it gets worse, and move on to a healthy relationship.

Not sure if this was, in part, a response to my suggestion that the OP talk to her counselor and/or close friends, but if so I should clarify. My suggestion came about because the OP seems to want to defend all of his actions, and my hope is that if she speaks to someone she knows and trusts they''ll tell her what is being said by most people here (What he''s done is completely and totally unacceptable, medication issues or not. GET OUT!) and because they are people she knows/loves/respects she might actually listen.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 3/24/2009 9:55:25 AM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 3/24/2009 9:40:30 AM
Author: Winks_Elf
Sorry, but I''d say forget going to therapists, trying to talk it out with friends, etc. You''re not engaged to him yet, you don''t live together...break it off before you DO become more involved. It should not be this difficult when you are dating. If he''s like this now, God only knows what problems will pop up in the future with this guy. The relationship is a cancer waiting to take over your entire life, and possibly ruin or end it. Cut it out now before it gets worse, and move on to a healthy relationship.

Not sure if this was, in part, a response to my suggestion that the OP talk to her counselor and/or close friends, but if so I should clarify. My suggestion came about because the OP seems to want to defend all of his actions, and my hope is that if she speaks to someone she knows and trusts they''ll tell her what is being said by most people here (What he''s done is completely and totally unacceptable, medication issues or not. GET OUT!) and because they are people she knows/loves/respects she might actually listen.

I agree with going to the therapist. She has been going to one for a while now and has posted about her therapist previously (in another topic). It''s obvious to me that she trusts this person very much to guide her down the right path. I think getting that perspective from the therapist will help.

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 3/24/2009 1:02:25 AM
Author: D2B
Ok, I cant quote but wink elf summs it up for me pretty well.

On top of the mooching, not being responsible for himself, the drunken talk about strippers (which is enough to make you consider if this is father/husband material,

He THREATEND you, with MURDER OMG - what else can I say.

option 1.no sane normal person no matter how drunk will say this no matter how depressed , down or stressed - no way.

option 2. if he said this (and therefore thought it), because of this medication/ drink mix up, well then run fast now, because next time he has a reaction like that and you are in the same room, how do you know he wont act out these thoughts - you read about it often enough - phsicotic rage, drugs and violence- dont mean to scare you, but seriously they are the only two options - I could not sleep next to him comfortably once those words had been said.

Love is not enough sometimes. you might love him, but his issues wont be solved by your love. I am scared for you - option 1 or option 2, neither are good

I actually agree with everybody who has advised to run, not walk away.

I wanted to quote this post inparticular because it brings up the possibility that you could have been in the same room as him, or in the future might be when he has his mental violent reaction.

The thing that comes to my mind is that he would get off legally if he did hurt (or worse) you because he could easily plead insanity.

He has all the signs of someone who has mental health issues. All the red flags are there. His whole lifestyle smacks of someone who is mentally unwell. You may be co dependant due to your constant excusing of his actions, and the fact that you blame yourself at every turn.

Anyway, good luck, but I think he is not the person you started out with. Maybe try to see the bigger picture and dont excuse his actions. eg. he shouldnt be sleeping in every day. Why is he so depressed? etc etc

 

[Lorelei]

I wouldn''t risk putting myself in harms way to give him another chance PiP, I would be out of there at once.

 

[tlh]

Date: 3/24/2009 1:39:51 AM
Author: katamari
Do you know for sure that he sent the texts? If he was that drunk, could it be possible that someone took his phone and sent them? The messages just don''t seem cohesive to me (like they weren''t sent by the same person or something), and I am trying to make sense of it any way possible. I teach college classes and, sadly, many of my students do these kind of things as pranks. But if the comments were actually made by him, I am not even able to put myself in your position enough to offer advice. I think you are doing the right thing by talking to your therapist about it.

That said, though, one of my college roommates was on anti-depressants and whenever she would drink, even a little, she would really loose it--as in become extremely mentally unstable. I think it is a bad and powerful combination.

Most drunk people can talk in circles and can jump subjects quickly, but his are easy to follow... pretty and her SO were in a battle of texts, she said it''s over, isn''t it? and he''s like yup I guess so... and it escalated, and he''s like fine I dont need you... basically saying she''s replaceable anyway - by comparing her to a stripper in an essence, as well as someone he just gets sex from. (we don''t know what pretty''s replies were but I''d guess something like a circle of I love you! and he''s like nope, I dont need you... because as he was drunk the orginal text hurt his feelings and he was lashing out.) She said she stopped replying because he was escalating it and she was done. Then probably after 15-30 mins or so of no response, he says if you really cared about me - you''d be here with me. Then probably after no reply again - he lashed out with the violent statement - because he really does see her as a liar - because I am going to guess the whole time it was a daisy pull of I LOVE YOU and he''s like YOU LOVE ME NOT... and it was a PROVE YOUR LOVE TO ME battle. When someone doesn''t have love for themselves -- you will NEVER WIN THIS BATTLE.

So I am 100% certain that he sent them. Whenever friends get someone else''s phone they usually text something ridiculous like "I eat p@@p." NOT "I''m going to murd## you! You lie! You don''t love me!" I firmly believe this was an unravelling of someone who is REALLY DEPRESSED. You cannot love someone out of depression, therapy and drugs are not always enough. You cannot save them from themselves.

Pretty, whenever people ask a question like "Am I a fool" it is because you ALREADY feel FOOLISH. You are actually waiting for people to say... no, it is alright - you are not a fool. But these are your feelings.... that is why you phrased the question like this, you believe yourself to be a fool. You''ve already decided to take him back - and no matter how many people shout - LEAVE HIM! I honestly don''t think you are going to. I don''t know why you are in therapy now, but you said it was because of a previous relationship. Was this relationship emotionally abusive? You don''t have to answer me, but answer yourself... there are a lot of questions to ask yourself WITHOUT TALKING TO YOUR SO.

 

[GoingCrazy29]

Date: 3/23/2009 3:11:30 PM
Author: prettylnpink419
I'm just reading and digesting everything you have all responded with. I really truly appreciate it.

I wanted to answer a few things.

We do not live together, he rents a room from his cousin.
I was not drinking that night. I had 1 beer with dinner but I was the DD.

He does not have a drinking problem. We've been together for 2 years and he's only ever drank or gotten drunk 2 times.

He may not have an addiction to alcohol, but he definitely has a drinking problem. The problem is that he becomes emotionally abusive and threatens you with physical harm *murder!!*. Please see this for what it is and get out before he unravels this way in front of you and the threats become actions. I know its hard and my thoughts are with you.

 

[daydreamer]

Date: 3/23/2009 4:49:44 PM
Author: tlh
You''ve taken him back this should be contingent on....


1) He needs to be in counselling at a therapist seperate from yours. You do not need couples therapy, he needs his own therapist. You need yours to talk about why you have taken him back. He needs his to discuss his stress and his situation on why he cannot get work and why he is so depressed. There is most likely more to his depression than a simple chemical imbalance.


2) Your relationship must take 2 steps back. If you were talking about moving in together, this needs to be put on hold, indefinately. I wouldn''t even talk about it anymore. You are not at a where is your relationship going conversation, but about figuring out his psychological needs. You need to figure out what is going on, and not just brush it under the carpet - like a whoops shouldn''t have said that. Things cannot keep going along as they were. Your relationship was plogging along a certain course, and he just drove off the road. You need to call a tow truck, get the car into the shop, and see what else was damaged, other than a possible flat tire.


3) If you have taken him back and truley forgiven him, you can never throw this in his face again. IE- you cannot say, remember when you said xxxx, and use that as leverage in the argument. If that is the case, you should NOT be with him at all.


4) If anything like this happens again, you need to end the relationship.


Hugs, and I hope your therapy session goes well.

I completely agree and would add 5. He shouldn''t drink anymore, or at least not until he''s in a better place in life. He sounds profoundly depressed.

I''m sorry you''re having to go through this. I wish you all the best and no, I don''t think you are a fool.

 

[tlh]

Date: 3/24/2009 2:10:08 PM
Author: daydreamer

Date: 3/23/2009 4:49:44 PM
Author: tlh
You''ve taken him back this should be contingent on....


1) He needs to be in counselling at a therapist seperate from yours. You do not need couples therapy, he needs his own therapist. You need yours to talk about why you have taken him back. He needs his to discuss his stress and his situation on why he cannot get work and why he is so depressed. There is most likely more to his depression than a simple chemical imbalance.


2) Your relationship must take 2 steps back. If you were talking about moving in together, this needs to be put on hold, indefinately. I wouldn''t even talk about it anymore. You are not at a where is your relationship going conversation, but about figuring out his psychological needs. You need to figure out what is going on, and not just brush it under the carpet - like a whoops shouldn''t have said that. Things cannot keep going along as they were. Your relationship was plogging along a certain course, and he just drove off the road. You need to call a tow truck, get the car into the shop, and see what else was damaged, other than a possible flat tire.


3) If you have taken him back and truley forgiven him, you can never throw this in his face again. IE- you cannot say, remember when you said xxxx, and use that as leverage in the argument. If that is the case, you should NOT be with him at all.


4) If anything like this happens again, you need to end the relationship.


Hugs, and I hope your therapy session goes well.

I completely agree and would add 5. He shouldn''t drink anymore, or at least not until he''s in a better place in life. He sounds profoundly depressed.

I''m sorry you''re having to go through this. I wish you all the best and no, I don''t think you are a fool.

I''d agree with daydreamer and also add her #5. Alcohol is a depressant and clearly doesn''t mix with his emotional state at the time being... pretty, how was meeting with your therapist? Didn''t you say you were going to meet with her today and discuss this?

 

[Smurfysmiles]

Date: 3/24/2009 1:26:29 PM
Author: GoingCrazy29

Date: 3/23/2009 3:11:30 PM

Author: prettylnpink419

I'm just reading and digesting everything you have all responded with. I really truly appreciate it.


I wanted to answer a few things.


We do not live together, he rents a room from his cousin.

I was not drinking that night. I had 1 beer with dinner but I was the DD.


He does not have a drinking problem. We've been together for 2 years and he's only ever drank or gotten drunk 2 times.

He may not have an addiction to alcohol, but he definitely has a drinking problem. The problem is that he becomes emotionally abusive and threatens you with physical harm *murder!!*. Please see this for what it is and get out before he unravels this way in front of you and the threats become actions. I know its hard and my thoughts are with you.

DITTO. Just because hes only drank twice does not an excuse make. Just because he never drinks does not automatically mean he can handle it. Plenty of people who never drink cannot handle it and thus thank god they hardly ever drink, but probably the best solution would be for them to not drink at all. I would seriously consider AA and there is another program called Alanon for family, friends, and partners of the person who does not know how to control themselves when they drink.

 

[Mediterranean]

I''m so sorry you have to deal with this, PIP!!! You did NOTHING to deserve this, not on the 17th., and not during the relationship.

I must say that I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who says to LEAVE the relationship.

I have a story of my own to add that may help with the perspective on this:

I have a dear friend whose husband doesn''t get drunk very often (I''ve seen him hammered maybe 5 times or six during their 9 year marriage?), but when he does, he starts "roughhousing" He has pushed me into a swimming pool with all my clothes on, he has slam-danced in their living room and broken furniture, and put holes in the wall, things like that. He thinks he is being good natured, but he has NO SENSE OF HIMSELF when he does this stuff. He''s a full grown man, and we''re women, way smaller than him, and he''s like picking us up, twirling us around, throwing us in swimming pools,,,and he thinks he''s being cute and funny, because he''s drunk.

Well, last 4th. of July, he finally screwed up really bad: He grabbed his wife (my friend) by the arms and swung her around until her feet came off the ground. This was at the top of the stairs in their home. Well, of course he''s much too drunk to maintain balance and bear her weight, so the both of them fell down the stairs.

He dislocated his shoulder and hip, and my friend broke her ankle requiring surgery and pins in her ankle.

.....she also lost their baby. She was 4 months pregnant. It was a very hard-won pregnancy, she has PCOS and was doing fertility treatments. There''s no telling if she can conceive again (we are age 35 now).

He didn''t "mean it" of course, but the intention does not matter in the face of the outcome.

Knowing this guy, I have to say that I have formed an opinion on why some people drink:

Some people get drunk in order to HAVE AN EXCUSE for their crappy behavior. No matter how bad they act, they can always blame it on the liquor and get forgiveness.

They drink to have an excuse to act like scum. They don''t act like scum because they drink.


Please, please leave this guy. A life with an unstable, sick monster could end up costing you more than you could ever imagine.

 

[Haven]

What a tragic story, Mediterranean. Thank you for sharing it, I hope it gives the OP some insight into what her future could look like.

 

[Mediterranean]

Date: 3/24/2009 4:10:57 PM
Author: Haven
What a tragic story, Mediterranean. Thank you for sharing it, I hope it gives the OP some insight into what her future could look like.

...what scares me the most is that the man texted her saying he was going to MURDER her. There s something about the word MURDER that speaks to the INTENT of the person using the word.

We have probably all used the word "kill" offhandedly, and said things like said "Oh, I am totally gonna kill you if you show my new boyfriend my junior high school yearbook" Or "Ugh, I could just kill my boss when he dumps all his screw-ups on me on Friday afternoon, and then leaves early" or "My roommate wore my new $300 dress to go barhopping? She didn''t even ask! I''m gonna kill her when she gets back here!"

In a drunk texting situation "kill" is also much easier to type out. This guy not only USED the word MURDER, but he took the time and meticulously picked out every letter: M-U-R-D-E-R.

Murder, and not the more generic, over-used, common sarcastic word "kill"

Think about that PIP. And think of the safety of your 2 cats.

 

[Erin]

Date: 3/24/2009 5:12:31 PM
Author: Mediterranean
...what scares me the most is that the man texted her saying he was going to MURDER her. There s something about the word MURDER that speaks to the INTENT of the person using the word.

We have probably all used the word 'kill' offhandedly, and said things like said 'Oh, I am totally gonna kill you if you show my new boyfriend my junior high school yearbook' Or 'Ugh, I could just kill my boss when he dumps all his screw-ups on me on Friday afternoon, and then leaves early' or 'My roommate wore my new $300 dress to go barhopping? She didn't even ask! I'm gonna kill her when she gets back here!'

In a drunk texting situation 'kill' is also much easier to type out. This guy not only USED the word MURDER, but he took the time and meticulously picked out every letter: M-U-R-D-E-R.

Murder, and not the more generic, over-used, common sarcastic word 'kill'

Think about that PIP. And think of the safety of your 2 cats.

Med you're totally right. That must be why it's so unsettling. I never use that word. My friends never use that word. It really is an intentional use of the word.
Thanks for explaining why in my gut that bothers me so much. It seems so premeditated.

PIP I really hope you come back just to say hi. You have a lot of people here concerned for your well being. Maybe in your heart you know he would never really hurt you, but we don't know that from what we've read.

 

[Tuckins1]

O-kay. I am all about giving someone the benefit of the doubt, but the things he said are TERRIBLE!!! Those are inexcusable things to say. I don't really care what the circumstances are, you are responsible for everything that comes out of your mouth, drunk or not. I would walk away without batting an eyelash.

ETA- I have been VERY drunk in my day (back when I liked to party) and I have done many, many things that I am not happy about. But I have NEVER treated another human being like that, even casual friends or stangers, let alone the person that I "love"!!! SHAMEFUL!!!

 

[purrfectpear]

It''s really pretty basic.

What happens if you stay together and get married or live together and he drinks? How comfortable would you have felt if he was yelling those things to you in your face? How OK would it be if he was in the same room?

Because that''s where you''re heading if you stay together.

It''s that basic.

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 3/24/2009 5:28:28 PM
Author: Starset Princess

Date: 3/24/2009 5:12:31 PM
Author: Mediterranean
...what scares me the most is that the man texted her saying he was going to MURDER her. There s something about the word MURDER that speaks to the INTENT of the person using the word.

We have probably all used the word ''kill'' offhandedly, and said things like said ''Oh, I am totally gonna kill you if you show my new boyfriend my junior high school yearbook'' Or ''Ugh, I could just kill my boss when he dumps all his screw-ups on me on Friday afternoon, and then leaves early'' or ''My roommate wore my new $300 dress to go barhopping? She didn''t even ask! I''m gonna kill her when she gets back here!''

In a drunk texting situation ''kill'' is also much easier to type out. This guy not only USED the word MURDER, but he took the time and meticulously picked out every letter: M-U-R-D-E-R.

Murder, and not the more generic, over-used, common sarcastic word ''kill''

Think about that PIP. And think of the safety of your 2 cats.

Med you''re totally right. That must be why it''s so unsettling. I never use that word. My friends never use that word. It really is an intentional use of the word.
Thanks for explaining why in my gut that bothers me so much. It seems so premeditated.

PIP I really hope you come back just to say hi. You have a lot of people here concerned for your well being. Maybe in your heart you know he would never really hurt you, but we don''t know that from what we''ve read.

Thanks for sharing that Med. That story sent chills up my spine. Your friend must be devestated beyond belief.

Re. murder. I used to frequent a few crime sites and you would be surprised how easily murder comes to some. In this case I would take it seriously as it is a huge red flag for someone to use the word murder to their partner. The OP is in a position to escape from this guy now and avoid a life of emotional abuse.

 

[katamari]

Date: 3/24/2009 10:32:41 AM
Author: tlh

Date: 3/24/2009 1:39:51 AM

Author: katamari

Do you know for sure that he sent the texts? If he was that drunk, could it be possible that someone took his phone and sent them? The messages just don''t seem cohesive to me (like they weren''t sent by the same person or something), and I am trying to make sense of it any way possible. I teach college classes and, sadly, many of my students do these kind of things as pranks. But if the comments were actually made by him, I am not even able to put myself in your position enough to offer advice. I think you are doing the right thing by talking to your therapist about it.


That said, though, one of my college roommates was on anti-depressants and whenever she would drink, even a little, she would really loose it--as in become extremely mentally unstable. I think it is a bad and powerful combination.

Most drunk people can talk in circles and can jump subjects quickly, but his are easy to follow... pretty and her SO were in a battle of texts, she said it''s over, isn''t it? and he''s like yup I guess so... and it escalated, and he''s like fine I dont need you... basically saying she''s replaceable anyway - by comparing her to a stripper in an essence, as well as someone he just gets sex from. (we don''t know what pretty''s replies were but I''d guess something like a circle of I love you! and he''s like nope, I dont need you... because as he was drunk the orginal text hurt his feelings and he was lashing out.) She said she stopped replying because he was escalating it and she was done. Then probably after 15-30 mins or so of no response, he says if you really cared about me - you''d be here with me. Then probably after no reply again - he lashed out with the violent statement - because he really does see her as a liar - because I am going to guess the whole time it was a daisy pull of I LOVE YOU and he''s like YOU LOVE ME NOT... and it was a PROVE YOUR LOVE TO ME battle. When someone doesn''t have love for themselves -- you will NEVER WIN THIS BATTLE.


So I am 100% certain that he sent them. Whenever friends get someone else''s phone they usually text something ridiculous like ''I eat p@@p.'' NOT ''I''m going to murd## you! You lie! You don''t love me!'' I firmly believe this was an unravelling of someone who is REALLY DEPRESSED. You cannot love someone out of depression, therapy and drugs are not always enough. You cannot save them from themselves.


Pretty, whenever people ask a question like ''Am I a fool'' it is because you ALREADY feel FOOLISH. You are actually waiting for people to say... no, it is alright - you are not a fool. But these are your feelings.... that is why you phrased the question like this, you believe yourself to be a fool. You''ve already decided to take him back - and no matter how many people shout - LEAVE HIM! I honestly don''t think you are going to. I don''t know why you are in therapy now, but you said it was because of a previous relationship. Was this relationship emotionally abusive? You don''t have to answer me, but answer yourself... there are a lot of questions to ask yourself WITHOUT TALKING TO YOUR SO.

All very good points, tlh. I totally agree with you, and most posters. I cannot imagine what PiP has to be going through right now.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I will share a very low moment in my life to see if it helps.

18 months ago I had my very first martini (whoa!), combined with champagne and wine. I became upset because I drank too much to go to my terminally ill friend''s surprise birthday party (he has since passed), and I went into a rage which I completely wrongly directed at DH. I said I didn''t love him, wanted a divorce, etc. I have NEVER thought those things or ever wanted a divorce. I don''t know where the rage came from. I tried to attack him with my keys, locked him in the basement (he could get out but it would have set off the house alarm), and passed out on the couch. So horrible, to my everlasting shame.

The next morning, I felt terrible. I apologized a thousand times and wrote a heartfelt letter of apology. I offered to give up drinking, and asked people close to me if it sounded like I had a problem. I promised (and meant) that if anything like that ever happened again, I would give up drinking for life and get therapy.

Nothing like that has happened since, and I sincerely hope that it was just a fluke chemical thing based on the alcohol I mixed, the fact I was PMSing, and my genuine (though drunken) sorrow that I was missing my friend''s important party. But I can''t know for sure. I may be somebody who cannot handle alcohol and therefore needs to avoid it at all costs. I haven''t had any issues thus far but I have (I hope) a long life ahead of me, and it would be foolish of me to assume that I am not susceptible to it again.

I am so thankful that DH forgave me and that he believed that I didn''t mean to do those things. That said, I am a big proponent of taking care of yourself, and if DH determined that I was a toxic person then I hope he would protect himself and leave me behind.

You mentioned that the next day, your SO was still angry and blaming you. Once sober, I knew absolutely that what I had done was wrong. Nothing could ever justify hurting my DH physically or verbally. I didn''t try to make excuses or make him feel bad (I had done that enough already!). That makes me wonder about your SO''s emotional maturity, and therefore about the viability of the relationship. It''s ok to screw up, but if you can''t see it without being forced to spend your birthday alone, what''s going to change the next time?

I hope my story helps. It wasn''t easy to share!

 

[IloveAsschers13]

Date: 3/24/2009 5:57:06 PM
Author: purrfectpear
It's really pretty basic.


What happens if you stay together and get married or live together and he drinks? How comfortable would you have felt if he was yelling those things to you in your face? How OK would it be if he was in the same room?


Because that's where you're heading if you stay together.


It's that basic.

Or have KIDS!? How will your children feel if their dad "accidently" gets drunk and says something like that to their mother- or to THEM. And you are old enough and mature enough to handle this- in your own way- but imagine a kid?? a toddler? It would break my heart...

I have not experienced this in real life but being an *almost* teacher, I have experienced children with abusive parents and it seriously kills a part of me.

 

[fieryred33143]

Hey PIP! Just thinking about you. Hope you are doing well. Check in with us and just let us know how/what you are feeling

 

[princesss]

PIP, I''ve been thinking about this all day. Luckily, PP took the words right out of my mouth (and softened them up quite a bit).



The use of the word "murder" is very deliberate, and shows quite a lot about him. You are not married. You are not (thank goodness) engaged. Your number one priority needs to be you. He has a lot of issues, and he may be a very wonderful person once he gets through them, but there is no need to risk it. Because you''re risking your life. Really and truly.

His actions that night were all about him, as were his the next day. He wasn''t sorry he upset you. He was sorry his birthday plans got ruined. Lovely.

I want so desperately for you to choose to value yourself more than you value this relationship. But people in relationships moving towards violence and abuse are like addicts that haven''t hit bottom. You won''t hear any of this until he crosses the line you set in your mind. If you can type out that he told you he wanted to murder you and then defend him in the very next post, you''re probably not going to listen, but I wanted to try.

 

[prettylnpink419]

Ladies-

I am here. I'm sorry I have not replied or posted sooner. I'm really just reading and digesting everything all of you have said. I cannot thank each and every one of you enough for your encouraging posts, kind words, and support. Obviously some of it is difficult to read, but the situation I am faced with is difficult in and of itself.

Please do not confuse my posts with me defending him, I am in no way, shape, or form defending him for how he behaved, there is no way to defend him. I've shared with all of you that this is not who he is in real life, this is completely different and the only time he has ever behaved in this way. I've shared that he was on medication to get thoughts on how antidepressants can react when drinking that much alcohol. Anything I've shared with all of you is just to add some perspective to the situation.

Trust me, I have not taken anything that any of you have said lightly. It is pretty much all I think about. I honestly can not say that I've made my mind up about what I'm going to do. For some of you it seems to be so black and white but for me it just isn't. I can't seem to get past the fact that his actions do not reflect who he really is. In my heart of hearts, I do not believe he would ever do anything to hurt me. In my heart of hearts I do not believe he meant most of what he said. I do believe he was angry and upset with me. I do believe the alcohol and meds interacted which added to his behavior. I do NOT believe how he behaved is excusable. I do not believe that if I was to give him a second chance that we could act like it never happened, because in reality...it did, and I can't forget it. I'm not sure I'm ready to forgive it either...so where does that leave us? I'm not really sure right now.

All of your thoughts and posts have been extremely helpful for me. I needed to read them and see other people's perspectives. Trust me when I say I cannot thank all of you enough and your words have not fallen on deaf ears. Ultimately this is a decision I need to make and it needs to be one I can live with. I'm just not sure what that decision is at this point.

I did meet with my therapist tonight. She has seen my boyfriend on multiple occasions. She knows him pretty well. Her reaction was that he is completely self-destructing. She said she had a pretty good idea of where my story was going after I told her he had helped me move all weekend. He moved in December and my mom and I have a family tradition where a Saturday in December we bake Christmas cookies ALL day long...it is a nightmare the day that we do it and we are miserable by the end because our feet hurt...plus it makes us not want to eat a cookie all season...but we look forward to it every year. He planned his move the same day we had planned to bake cookies...and because of our schedules we could not move our cookie day. So needless to say I was not able to help but he had his friend to help, plus he only had a bedroom so not that much. He did not tell me he was upset that I did not help, he acted like he was fine but then it came out a few weeks later that he was very upset with me for not helping. We worked through that argument and things were fine. However, my therapist said that while he was helping me move, he was probably reminded about how I wasn't there to help him move. He was looking around at everything I have and comparing it to what he has, which is not much. Since he was already feeling down and depressed, every core issue he has was activated by his feelings of inadequacy and the feeling that I rejected him and wasn't there for him. He was sent into a downward spiral of emotions and every defense mechanism he has was in turn activated, anger, blame, guilt, shame, and ultimately addiction (the drinking). So that is how he dealt with it. She said say that with the meds he was on and the amount he had to drink can easily, easily explain away the things he said. The reaction he had is EXTREMELY common among individuals that take antidepressants and binge drink. She also said that most likely he resents me because I'm working full-time (in a job I enjoy) and I'm in school full-time and will be getting my degree in December, plus I have my own place, and I'm very independent...all of the things he is not at this moment. He is out of work, switching careers, renting a room from his cousin, just moved out of his parents house in December, and living off of unemployment. She said he obviously loves me but he probably hates me a little too because he is jealous of what I have and where my life is headed. She said essentially that he is testing me. He is pushing me away to see if I leave meaning then that I don't really love him like I say I do or if I'll stay and fight for him and our relationship - which is what he wants me to do. She said honestly that we are very lucky he didn't become suicidal. That in similar reactions with anti-depressants and alcohol, suicide is a common result. She is very worried about him. But as MY therapist she has my best interest at heart so she said I basically have two options...well technically 3...I can run away and leave him to continue down his downward spiral...We can take a break and not see each other for a month or so (which he will most likely view as rejection which will continue to activate his core issues.), or I can fight for him and push back and tell him that I love him and no matter how hard he tries to push me away I won't leave him alone and I will help him through this and we'll get through it together...as long as we both work at it...which means not drinking, staying on the antidepressants and him seeing a therapist. She said that if I choose to fight for him, I need to do a better job of giving his emotions value and not getting so defensive. She said she's seen me devalue his emotions in her office before. He's tried to tell me how he feels and I immediately react by getting defensive which then shows him his emotions are not important. So she said I'd need to focus of giving him value and acknowledging how he feels. That I need to avoid getting defensive and justifying in arguments. She said I'd need to constantly remind him that however hard he pushes me away, I'll push that much further back because for once in his life he was not going to be abandoned.

Honestly, after speaking with her, I am really really torn. I love him. I know he is hurting. I know he is in a dark place right now and part of me feels like how can I leave him there and abandon him...isn't a relationship about thick and thin and good times and bad? Part of me feels like he needs me, and he needs to know he's not alone. The other part of me is extremely hurt. I'm not scared of him because he would never hurt a fly...I know he's just hurting inside. But I am extremely hurt. I worry that I won't be able to get past that. Like one of you said, if I agreed to give him a second chance I would have to forgive him and never hold it above his head or throw it in his face again. I'm not sure I'm there yet. At this point I am taking it one day at a time. My therapist did say that no matter what I chose to do, it was going to be a very bumpy road. And if I choose to fight for him then it is going to be a long road, where I carry a lot on my shoulders and she is not sure how much I can take on. She agrees that he is not a threat to me. She told me over and over that I cannot internalize this. That is not about me...this is all about him. These are his issues and this is all about him...she told me that over and over. She said that I need to remember that and remind myself of that frequently. She obviously told me to call her day or night and that she'd help me work through whatever I decided to do.

For what it is worth, he did go to the doctor today and discuss how he behaved. His doctor did switch his medication and wants to monitor his behavior. He has continuously apologized...profusely. He feels horrible. He is devastated. He gave me my house keys back and said he didn't want them back until I felt safe around him again. (His idea) He is absolutely beside himself and does not know what to do.

As I previously said, I know that for so many of you this is so black and white but I honestly believe that if you knew him in real life you'd be just as confused and torn as I am. I have not made my decision up, I repeat, I have not made up my mind yet. However, I am seriously struggling. I really need your support or at least some dust for whatever decision I make.

Again, I do not think I can say it enough...but thank you from the bottom of my heart for all of the time and effort you all have put in to helping me. I am so grateful! I am sorry this was soooo long.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

Well it sounds like you are off to a good start.. however I personally do know how hard it is to leave someone in a situation like that.

My ex who actually threatened me with murder did try to make good on it when he just totally snapped out of the blue during an argument and tried choking me to death. He snapped out of it randomly after I was flopping around like a fish trying to get free... and he cried and told me he was so sorry and he didn''t mean to do it. He was blubbering about how much he loves me and how relationships are about the good times and the bad (him trying to play on my love for him.. manipulation). But honey, seriously... a relationship is NOT supposed to hurt you like that.

It is hard, but I know too... YOU have to realize it''s time for YOU to leave because nothing we say, including your therapist, can sway how you feel nor your decision to stay.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, think of your own self first!