Falling White Diamond Prices

[Karl_K]

Garry,
I'm not sure what that proves other than there is no market for si2 labs.

 

[nala]

Garry,
I'm not sure what that proves other than there is no market for si2 labs.

Interesting. Why is that? Isn’t the point of lgd to maximize budget? This price point is ideal for folks who were considering a cubic zirconia. They can now boast they have a lab diamond.

 

[Karl_K]

Interesting. Why is that? Isn’t the point of lgd to maximize budget? This price point is ideal for folks who were considering a cubic zirconia. They can now boast they have a lab diamond.

That is not the market.
That is just what the haters want to paint the market as being.
The market is g or better and vs1 plus or why bother.
DEF vvs lab stones are the expected to a lot of people.

 

[nala]

That is not the market.
That is just what the haters want to paint the market as being.
The market is g or better and vs1 plus or why bother.
DEF vvs stones are the expected to a lot of people.

Interesting. Here I am always happy with my si1 or si2 naturals. Figured it was the same for lgd.

 

[Karl_K]

Interesting. Here I am always happy with my si1 or si2 naturals. Figured it was the same for lgd.

There are a lot of differences in the markets for lab and mined on both the consumer and supplier side.
Competition on the supply side is pushing everything to DEF vvs in the lab market.
Consumers see it as something they would not be able to afford in mined giving it a boost in desirability.
They feed off each other, raising the market volume.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Garry,
I'm not sure what that proves other than there is no market for si2 labs.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

There are a lot of differences in the markets for lab and mined on both the consumer and supplier side.
Competition on the supply side is pushing everything to DEF vvs in the lab market.
Consumers see it as something they would not be able to afford in mined giving it a boost in desirability.
They feed off each other, raising the market volume.

I dont understand what the difference is between D-E VVS and F VS2 in a man made product -but here ya go

 

[lulu_ma]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) Wow! How is any money being made with the mostly fixed cost (I am assuming) of cutting?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Interesting discussion!!!
My perspective was always that it was kinda …. “Silly” that an eye clean F/SI2 was a fraction the price is of D/VVS2. When I was learning to grade the imperfect stones were more interesting than clean ones.
As time went on and I started selling diamonds to the end user, I shared my experience. We’ve sold tons of SI and I1 diamonds over the years.
Seems that LGD has kind of drawn back the curtain to reveal the little guy pulling the strings
So now, due to improvements growing the rough, J color LGDs are rare and cost more than D’s in a lot of cases.

Based on what I see in NYC it’s just crazy town. There’s a definite lack of demand for both EGD and LGD. As @Texas Leaguer pointed out, there’s many different reasons for demand to ebb and flow.
But one thing is sure- many of the people who’ve bought LGDs would have bought EGDs - and that definitely takes a bite out of the natural market.
But wait/ DeBeers is now saying a diamond is forever. We’re saved!!

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Such cool comments.

So @Garry H (Cut Nut) have we reached the point where LGDs are cheaper than moissys?

I just got a moissy from one of those lapidaries that does cuts with hard to pronounce names. The moissy cost more than two of my LGD together. (It is pretty, but was overpriced. I paid because the cutter’s reputation is so good.)

Possibly, since moissanite will become redundant, and diamond prolific, I think man made diamond may well become cheaper.

There seem to be a lot of people who love moissy for the beautiful double refraction. I hope it stays around even if LGD push moissy prices down.

Interesting. Why is that? Isn’t the point of lgd to maximize budget? This price point is ideal for folks who were considering a cubic zirconia. They can now boast they have a lab diamond.

Boasting might not be the only motivation. LGD won’t dull like CZ.

That is not the market.
That is just what the haters want to paint the market as being.
The market is g or better and vs1 plus or why bother.
DEF vvs lab stones are the expected to a lot of people.

Especially with 40x magnification being the norm. I just traded in a D VS2 (EGD) because I could not get the thought of the tiny black inclusion on the table that was magnified to 40x out of my mind. Even in person under a 10x loop, that inclusion took a while to find and only looked like a small grey scratch. Never ever could find it without magnification no matter how hard I looked. And yet just the thought of it as seen on the 40x bugged me enough to upgrade.

Interesting. Here I am always happy with my si1 or si2 naturals. Figured it was the same for lgd.

Yeah mind clean is a thing. I used to scroll through online inventory with SI2 as my minimum to think about and SI1 as my minimum to seriously consider. Now if I’m looking to buy I set the minimum at VS1.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Sorry to veer off-topic, but oncrutchesrightnow, can you share who cut your nice moissy? I'm always prowling Etsy for nicely cut ones. I like Ankit but he's a bit too successful to be reliable these days.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) Wow! How is any money being made with the mostly fixed cost (I am assuming) of cutting?

Cutting is easier than for diamonds because the rough is made to depth or thickness and there is no need to plan around inclusions.
lGD rough is cheap and getting cheaper.
The offcuts of diamonds have value but I am told the grown diamond leftovers are either ground off or if lasered they are sold as industrial abrasives.
Increasingly grading is becoming a larger part of the cost of goods as mass mass production kicks in.

 

[LLJsmom]

@MissGotRocks and @Lookinagain i agree with you both. I don’t think the market has settled on LGDs. EGD have been extra high due to the lower supply as a result of political upheaval in Europe. They are lower now but still not as low as before the ban pandemic. I bought LGDs studs and I discovered they are NOT mind clean for me. They are beautiful and practical and I wear them for the look, but I will not buy any more labs. I think EGD will still be much more expensive than LGD because the whole EGD supply chain will find it harder to be profitable due to decreased demand, Thus reducing supply and raising prices. I do think the EGD market will shrink as a whole. If LGDs keep falling they will join the ranks of CZs. Over time I see them becoming two separate markets. Different products for different purposes.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

@MissGotRocks and @Lookinagain i agree with you both. I don’t think the market has settled on LGDs. EGD have been extra high due to the lower supply as a result of political upheaval in Europe. They are lower now but still not as low as before the ban pandemic. I bought LGDs studs and I discovered they are NOT mind clean for me. They are beautiful and practical and I wear them for the look, but I will not buy any more labs. I think EGD will still be much more expensive than LGD because the whole EGD supply chain will find it harder to be profitable due to decreased demand, Thus reducing supply and raising prices. I do think the EGD market will shrink as a whole. If LGDs keep falling they will join the ranks of CZs. Over time I see them becoming two separate markets. Different products for different purposes.

Absolutely accurate LLJsmom.
Sadly though the lower supply from Russia lasted a month or two.
Some mines will close for sure and new prospects will only get up if they have large higher quality goods.
But if I may ask, why do you call natural diamonds EGD?

 

[MissGotRocks]

Absolutely accurate LLJsmom.
Sadly though the lower supply from Russia lasted a month or two.
Some mines will close for sure and new prospects will only get up if they have large higher quality goods.
But if I may ask, why do you call natural diamonds EGD?

Earth grown diamonds Garry

 

[Mreader]

@MissGotRocks and @Lookinagain i agree with you both. I don’t think the market has settled on LGDs. EGD have been extra high due to the lower supply as a result of political upheaval in Europe. They are lower now but still not as low as before the ban pandemic. I bought LGDs studs and I discovered they are NOT mind clean for me. They are beautiful and practical and I wear them for the look, but I will not buy any more labs. I think EGD will still be much more expensive than LGD because the whole EGD supply chain will find it harder to be profitable due to decreased demand, Thus reducing supply and raising prices. I do think the EGD market will shrink as a whole. If LGDs keep falling they will join the ranks of CZs. Over time I see them becoming two separate markets. Different products for different purposes.

I was curious about how you were feeling about your LGDs. Do you still wear them even though they have not been mind clean?

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

While this thread is still going I have one more question that I would like to ask.

If you were to send an EGD and a LGD to either IGI or GIA to cert, can the Lab (GIA or IGI) tell which is which. If there are distinguishing characteristics to tell which is which, then they are different. If you can't tell the difference then why separate them by sending them off to different labs.

I saw in my feed, that Blue Nile is selling a 3.01 ctw lab diamond for 800.00. High color and clarity.

Houses, stocks, commodities go up and down. EGDs are the same. We all have been used to diamonds going up up up these past years. Personally, I find them too high (not colored diamonds). So, after this good discussion I still feel that I would recommend that young people buy a lab diamond and wait until they are in a better financial position in life to buy the more expensive EGD. I personally would buy LGD studs like LLJs Mom. But, I do remember the feeling I had when I bought my first diamond ring. I was really happy. It's a knot ring with 2 carats of baguette diamonds that I have since learned are not good (before pricescope). But, what I remember is the feeling I had when I knew I owned a diamond ring. For me, its says I have participated in "the good life", even if in a small way.

Annette

 

[LLJsmom]

I was curious about how you were feeling about your LGDs. Do you still wear them even though they have not been mind clean?

Yup I wear them. I don’t worry about losing them and they go with everything but they aren’t precious to me. If I lost them I would not buy them again.

 

[Mreader]

Yup I wear them. I don’t worry about losing them and they go with everything but they aren’t precious to me. If I lost them I would not buy them again.

It’s good that you wear them! I just got mine and I’ve been wearing them daily- idk yet if I will give up my mined studs (3ctw vs the 4 LGD)…bc they do “feel” different

 

[LLJsmom]

It’s good that you wear them! I just got mine and I’ve been wearing them daily- idk yet if I will give up my mined studs (3ctw vs the 4 LGD)…bc they do “feel” different

If I were you I’d keep both. Different purposes. Travel earrings and the ones you don’t want to lose and pass down.

 

[nala]

Yup I wear them. I don’t worry about losing them and they go with everything but they aren’t precious to me. If I lost them I would not buy them again.

I have been persuading my sister to buy lab studs but she refuses because “what if people found put they were lab, would they then suspect that my ACA is lab too?”
And tho I keep telling her no one will know the difference, she still refuses.
Is that what you mean about mind clean?

 

[LLJsmom]

I have been persuading my sister to buy lab studs but she refuses because “what if people found put they were lab, would they then suspect that my ACA is lab too?”
And tho I keep telling her no one will know the difference, she still refuses.
Is that what you mean about mind clean?

No. I don’t care if people think my earrings are labs. If they comment I will usually volunteer they are labs. It never occurred to me that it may affect what people think about my ring. It’s that I know they are labs that bothers me. I asked my teenager which she prefers, EGD or labs. She said EGD, cause they had to “work harder”. Made me LOL. Yes, millions of years being compressed in the earth v popping out of a machine. So now that is ingrained in my head. I usually wear my labs if they go with certain other jewelry. They are not my go-to earrings. But different people have different concerns. I am not judging anyone. People should do what they are comfortable with.

 

[LLJsmom]

Will it become like the synthetic sapphire, ruby and emerald market? Those are priced really low while the EGD versions are much more expensive. People still buy the EGD but there are plenty of synthetics if people just want the look and don’t want to pay the price.

 

[Karl_K]

Will it become like the synthetic sapphire, ruby and emerald market? Those are priced really low while the EGD versions are much more expensive. People still buy the EGD but there are plenty of synthetics if people just want the look and don’t want to pay the price.

They never established a market and faded into the background.
That is one thing that could happen with mmd but they could continue to establish a market like they have been.
The over supply we are seeing now will not last in my opinion.
The best growers will move on to other uses, consolidation and failures will thin out the rest.
I think that mmd have staying power even if historically others have not.
There is a built up demand due to mined diamonds being priced out of the market for many.
Mmd can win against an iphone, small mined diamonds not so much.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I have been persuading my sister to buy lab studs but she refuses because “what if people found put they were lab, would they then suspect that my ACA is lab too?”
And tho I keep telling her no one will know the difference, she still refuses.
Is that what you mean about mind clean?

Sorta kinda! Not so important what anyone else thinks but YOU know what they are. If that doesn't bother you, you are fine. If it does, it just does and they won't work for you.

 

[Lookinagain]

I have been persuading my sister to buy lab studs but she refuses because “what if people found put they were lab, would they then suspect that my ACA is lab too?”
And tho I keep telling her no one will know the difference, she still refuses.
Is that what you mean about mind clean?

Not to me. Mind clean is about what I think, not what others think. Right or wrong, LGDs to me, are not "real" no matter the chemical makeup because to me, "real" diamonds come from the earth, not a lab. So I would not feel like I was wearing a diamond wearing lab grown. Just my personal response to them. Others don't feel the same and I have no issue with that, but for me it just doesn't work.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Earth grown diamonds Garry

the correct gemological term is natural diamond. When and why did they become earth grown diamonds?
According to the US government FTC they are also diamonds.
Just plain "diamonds" is by their definition means natural diamonds.

 

[MissGotRocks]

the correct gemological term is natural diamond. When and why did they become earth grown diamonds?
According to the US government FTC they are also diamonds.
Just plain "diamonds" is by their definition means natural diamonds.

Well, that may be the correct terminology. However, on this forum, they seem to be referred to as earth grown vs. lab grown. So you would say natural diamond vs lab grown diamond?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Well, that may be the correct terminology. However, on this forum, they seem to be referred to as earth grown vs. lab grown. So you would say natural diamond vs lab grown diamond?

To save confusion LGD is common or just Lab.
The early LGD marketing when there was loads of VC money for easy plucking came up with Mined diamonds and earth grown.
Seems like propaganda to me since the gem industry always had 3 simple terms.
Natural - and treated natural which only needed declaring when the treatment was to deceive - blue topaz and almost all aquamarine emerald and sapphire are treated - so people 'declare' when untreated.
Synthetic - the same chemical and crystaline material. LGD, man made sapphire etc.
Imitation - a different material, e.g. glass, spinel sold to imitate ruby or sapphire etc
CZ sold as CZ is a synthetic, but sold as a diamond is an imitation.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Please tell me if the synthetic diamond can be ascertained by a lab vs a natural diamond with the same specs, and are sitting side by side. I hope this is the correct language usage regarding diamonds.

Annette