Falling White Diamond Prices

[winnietucker]

@lulu_ma & @Lisa Loves Shiny Thank you both for your insight. I noticed the preloved market has cooled a little bit so I’ll keep watching for now.

 

[hiratop]

https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/russian-diamond-giant-alrosa-halts-diamond-sales-prices-crash

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I have wanted to say what I am about to for a while. Diamondseeker 2006 has sort of opened the door. It has to do with the word "pretend".

We, as children, and most of us have also watched our own children play lots of pretend games. Most of us have pretended to be princesses, teachers, race car drivers, policeman, firemen, truckdrivers, and even singers. My theory is that even as grownups we like to pretend to be other people. Often times its about buying or doing what rich people do. We stay at an expensive Hotel for a few nights, we try on clothes from a designer shop. We go to Cartier's to see what they have though we know we won't buy. In short, we Pretend. I think we may be hard wired that way. Imagination is wonderful.

Type 3 diamonds allow us to pretend anything we wish. It is entirely fun to do. Its a return to the wonderful years of childhood, only in adulthood. A mind is a precious thing. it can take you anywhere and be anyone. We should enjoy it.

Annette

 

[Calliecake]

Hi,
I want to thank Garry for his participation in the thread. Your integrity about the subject matter is always on display. Thank You.!

i had never even gone over to the LDG board until this thread.
What I learned is the competition from LGD vs EGD may be more than I originally thought. The women over there are having fun with this new type of diamond. They are actually cutting these diamonds into all sorts of cuts that are desirable(antique). Some don't want hearts and arrows anymore. Of course, cost is a factor, but I see so much enjoyment over there that it put a smile on my face. I don't think its just a new toy." Joy has a way of spreading. I think, at least in the short term, I also want a transitional cut now.

Its hard to beat fun stuff.

Annette

+ A billion. (I’m sorry @canuk-gal for stealing your phrase.)
You summed up the Lab Grown Diamond threads perfectly @smitcompton.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Hi,

I have wanted to say what I am about to for a while. Diamondseeker 2006 has sort of opened the door. It has to do with the word "pretend".

We, as children, and most of us have also watched our own children play lots of pretend games. Most of us have pretended to be princesses, teachers, race car drivers, policeman, firemen, truckdrivers, and even singers. My theory is that even as grownups we like to pretend to be other people. Often times its about buying or doing what rich people do. We stay at an expensive Hotel for a few nights, we try on clothes from a designer shop. We go to Cartier's to see what they have though we know we won't buy. In short, we Pretend. I think we may be hard wired that way. Imagination is wonderful.

Type 3 diamonds allow us to pretend anything we wish. It is entirely fun to do. Its a return to the wonderful years of childhood, only in adulthood. A mind is a precious thing. it can take you anywhere and be anyone. We should enjoy it.

Annette

It can be exciting but still requires some careful thought and consideration. Imagination and fantasy are usually fun but even in pretend mode, we generally have to come back down to earth at some point. Your speed at which you do this is entirely up to you - lol!

 

[smitcompton]

It can be exciting but still requires some careful thought and consideration. Imagination and fantasy are usually fun but even in pretend mode, we generally have to come back down to earth at some point. Your speed at which you do this is entirely up to you - lol!

Hi,

You are so darn serious GotMissRocks. I am not going to play pretend with you.

I also was thinking of the people who get imitation Gucci, Louis Vitton, Rolex ect. It is not something that bothers me nor do I think people are trying to be what they are not. I think they are having fun. I knew a woman and her daughter who ripped out the labels from their clothes and replaced them with designer labels. This was not a poor woman, but she enjoyed knowing that the designer labels were in her clothes. She did drive a Mercedes as well. It was my first ride in a Mercedes.

Well, maybe I'll play with you.

Annette

 

[MissGotRocks]

Hi,

You are so darn serious GotMissRocks. I am not going to play pretend with you.

I also was thinking of the people who get imitation Gucci, Louis Vitton, Rolex ect. It is not something that bothers me nor do I think people are trying to be what they are not. I think they are having fun. I knew a woman and her daughter who ripped out the labels from their clothes and replaced them with designer labels. This was not a poor woman, but she enjoyed knowing that the designer labels were in her clothes. She did drive a Mercedes as well. It was my first ride in a Mercedes.

Well, maybe I'll play with you.

Annette

Oh, I can be fun @smitcompton, but then my level head returns! You are wise enough to know that some things don’t really matter - we might as well have a good time while we are riding through this life. I admire your spirit and always think of you so fondly! We would balance one another out beautifully!

 

[nala]

@smitcompton I do not think the lgd buyers want to be characterized as playing pretend.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Such an interesting discussion.
I'm reminded of one of my favorite Yogi-isms.
It's tough to make predictions- especially about the future.
I've really been thinking a lot about this.
Say someone bought a curated 5ct E/VS1 lab diamond, set into a designer, or custom made ring 2 years ago- for use as engagement ring.
Say they paid $25k for the ring.
Today, that ring is $7k+-
Ouch.
But looked at in context....
The same ring with a mined diamond was $350k...today maybe $325k
The diamonds in these rings are identical to the naked eye- or even under magnification. You'd need specialized tool to tell the difference.
The lab ring will be exactly as durable as the mined ring.
It's totally within the realm of possibility that the lab ring could bring as much or more enjoyment than the mined ring, even given the fact it's cheaper today.

Going forward- how much will that 5ct lab diamond be in a year, or 5?
Let's go back to Yogi's quote....it's easy to predict, but meaningless.
And- isn't there a bit more to it than buying chop meat by the pound??
If fine jewelers are going to offer lab diamonds- and clearly, that's already happening- I believe discriminating consumers will step up and pay a reasonable price for a fine ring made with Lab Diamonds.

Lab diamonds are definitely not going away and the disruption to the market is well underway, and irreversible. How is this going to affect the prices of either?
Let's get those crystal balls working

 

[elle_chris]

There's an entire generation of younger people who will point out how LGD's are real diamonds. They get extremely angry if people call them costume jewelry, or imply they're less than their natural counterparts.
They're not playing pretend.

But I do think that for many, they absolutely are trying to portray wealth. Aside from buying larger LGD's, many of the same people are also buying counterfeit luxury items like bags, sneakers, and other jewelry.
It almost seems like the "normal" thing to do these days.

Like I said upthread- I'm pretty much done with natural diamonds. I have my staple pieces that I'll pass on and that's it.
These days I'm more interested in fun jewelry, pieces that are not important enough for me to spend much on. In come lab diamonds. I appreciate them for what they are, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[MissGotRocks]

And @Rockdiamond, I appreciate the analysis and agree if money is the only factor in which to buy. Value is seen differently by some and they use other measuring sticks besides the dollar value. A love for natural diamonds is deep rooted in many and I still think they will continue to buy them.

Whether the young want to look rich or act rich with big lab diamonds and fake designer bags and shoes, I honestly don’t think they pull it off. The older crowd knows that it takes more than wanting something to make it happen.

To each his own. As I have said many times, diamonds aren’t necessities so folks can choose natural or lab, depending on their likes or dislikes. I just don’t think it always comes down to a dollar and cents choice on which to choose.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

This is such an interesting topic and to me especially interesting if you remove emotion from it. Two diamonds (one lab, one natural) look and perform identical. That's the factual information. Emotion for the most part and perhaps future value determines what the buyer is willing to pay. No wrong answer in what someone chooses. I love both natural and lab diamonds.

The only wrong answer IMHO is trying to make someone feel less than for what they choose. You can choose in your humble opinion to be right or choose to be kind. It is never wrong to be kind.

 

[DejaWiz]

This is such an interesting topic and to me especially interesting if you remove emotion from it. Two diamonds (one lab, one natural) look and perform identical. That's the factual information. Emotion for the most part and perhaps future value determines what the buyer is willing to pay. No wrong answer in what someone chooses. I love both natural and lab diamonds.

The only wrong answer IMHO is trying to make someone feel less than for what they choose. You can choose in your humble opinion to be right or choose to be kind. It is never wrong to be kind.

This ranks amongst the most perfect responses I've ever come across on this forum.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Emotion plays a huge part in diamond purchasing and always has in my opinion. It is a hard part to leave out regardless of which you choose to buy. If everyone thought of naturals and labs in the same context, there would be no price disparity. Everyone doesn’t feel the same about them so that plays a big role in what they decide to buy. Just because you pay more for something, doesn’t mean you should feel financially superior about it. Choosing the lesser cost should not make you feel financially superior either. Recognizing that we all come at it from different points of view is a core value to always bear in mind.

These discussions will continue here for a long time I am sure. I have no problem with it inasmuch as this is a diamond education forum. We all continue to learn and share and most certainly, can do so with kindness and respect. I am sure this is the goal of the moderators and forum members.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I hope no one is taking offence at my use of the word pretend. to convey what I see as enjoyment (as Rockdiamond stated)of lab diamonds and many other kinds of imitation luxury goods. People enjoy having these things, myself included.

There are other substances that are on the market that are synthetics, such as Silk vs Rayon. People use both for different reasons. Both have their place.

I enjoyed reading over in lab diamonds. Some want 5 ctw lab diamonds They are cheaper than what Rockdiamond quoted. My point was have fun with it. Yes, I like the children pretend story. For those who want to criticize it, you have missed my point.

Annette

 

[Rockdiamond]

They are cheaper than what Rockdiamond quoted.

Absolutely true. Just as in the natural diamond field, there are "bottom feeders" offering non-curated stones, and lesser service.
My $7K number was for a handmade 3 diamond ring 5ct E/VS1 Radiant/ approx 3/4ct tw trapezoids.
I think it's a fairly accurate- or even low number if one wanted hand picked stones and a super high quality ring.
Surely there are places that might offer such a ring for much less...but the ring will be lesser.

 

[Calliecake]

Life is short. Have fun. We are all on this forum because we love diamonds. I love that lab diamonds are bringing people joy.

 

[jeaniefish]

Lots of interesting and thoughtful responses from other PS members who were fortunate enough to have been given, inherited or bought the gorgeous earth mined diamonds I‘ve always enjoyed looking at here on PS.That is also true when I look at “Show me the Bling” lab diamonds.

I do want to say that I agree with Nala. I’m not playing make believe when I buy a lab diamond. I’m not trying to fool anyone either. I am just so happy that I now have the opportunity , if I choose, to purchase a larger ideal cut diamond that will make my eyes sparkle every time I look at it.…. and I promise you that I won’t be secretly wishing that it had been dug up out of the ground instead of grown in a laboratory. I will just be grateful that the technology exists that will help to make my dream ring more than just a dream!

 

[LoveMunkie]

The charts are there, Thanks @lulu_ma
With the sad passing of Andrey who was the owner/admin/person who worked crazy long hours keeping PS running and great guy, it is not unexpected that some things fall though the cracks and or get discontinued.
The data is there for those that want to look at it.

Rather than going all Xfiles lets be kind to those that struggle to keep PS running with the passing of Andrey.

I’m so sorry to hear of his passing. I’ve been a member for years, was under a different user name previously when looking for a advice on a stone with an ex. I’ve always appreciated how open this forum and the participating vendors have need.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Lab-grown diamonds might share the same chemical composition as naturally mined ones, but they're not quite equivalent. Like those knockoff Tiffany or VCA pieces you find all over eBay, even if they're made from real gold and diamonds, just aren't in the same league as the real deal.
If a lower-end car copies the design of a luxury car, it doesn't transform into a luxury car. The same goes for lab grown diamonds, fake bags, clothes, etc. in my opinion.

And hey, if gold were as common as dirt, we wouldn't think of it as something special anymore; it'd be like plain old iron.

Except, they are, exactly the same.
Your examples are of things that are close, but not the same.
With diamonds, there is no appreciable difference. There are no quality differences if they're cut to the same parameters and share clarity/color. So what was prized in diamonds, their perfection, are also it's Achilles heel.
It's all in the head- people paid more and they will/still perceive that it's better. It's a bit of sunk cost fallacy and a bit of psychic protection in action. They have to believe that; because just a short time ago, their object was perceived as the most precious and rare, all of a sudden there has been a seismic shift in that cache. That cache is a huge part of it's appeal underneath everything else, if one's being honest. The gate has been kicked wide open. Anyone would reel from that. Everyone is reeling, right now.
Perception is powerful but it doesn't negate the material in front of you.
It's thrown the diamond world off it's axis and it will never go back to the way it was.

The only thing to differentiate now would be to begin embracing mined diamonds with inclusions and fluorescence that are hard to replicate. It could come to pass that the I1 could possibly become the new VVS, or that tint becomes the desirable attribute.
Who knows? It's an exciting time.

 

[glitterata]

The only thing to differentiate now would be to begin embracing mined diamonds with inclusions and fluorescence that are hard to replicate. It could come to pass that the I1 could possibly become the new VVS, or that tint becomes the desirable attribute.
Who knows? It's an exciting time.

Oh boy, my diamonds will suddenly become much more valuable (I prefer lower-color I1s with strong fluorescence)! But I don't really think so, because isn't it easy enough to duplicate tints and inclusions? Fluorescence, maybe. But if it were valuable, I'm sure they'd figure out how to duplicate that, too.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Oh boy, my diamonds will suddenly become much more valuable (I prefer lower-color I1s with strong fluorescence)! But I don't really think so, because isn't it easy enough to duplicate tints and inclusions? Fluorescence, maybe. But if it were valuable, I'm sure they'd figure out how to duplicate that, too.

That's likely true. It's fun to think about, though.