Falling White Diamond Prices

[lulu_ma]

Hi,

Please tell me if the synthetic diamond can be ascertained by a lab vs a natural diamond with the same specs, and are sitting side by side. I hope this is the correct language usage regarding diamonds.

Annette

A gem lab can definitely tell. I believe that a trained gemologist can also tell the difference with a good loupe because of the growth striations.

 

[0515vision]

A gem lab can definitely tell. I believe that a trained gemologist can also tell the difference with a good loupe because of the growth striations.

But if there were two D IF stones next to each other with no fluorescence/phosphorescence, no tinges, no graining, no clouds, no feathers, etc would anyone be able to tell by sight?

(I’ve heard that the electrical conductivity of lab and earth are different, so I’m excluding that aspect since I’m presuming jewelry uses for these stones.)

 

[Karl_K]

But if there were two D IF stones next to each other with no fluorescence/phosphorescence, no tinges, no graining, no clouds, no feathers, etc would anyone be able to tell by sight?

(I’ve heard that the electrical conductivity of lab and earth are different, so I’m excluding that aspect since I’m presuming jewelry uses for these stones.)

A definitive answer would need a $5000.00 machine and you might get some small amount of false lab readings.
With a skilled user....
A microscope could be used to pick out many labs.
A loupe could be used to pick out some.

The better the lab made crystal the harder it is to tell.

 

[Karl_K]

(I’ve heard that the electrical conductivity of lab and earth are different, so I’m excluding that aspect since I’m presuming jewelry uses for these stones.)

That is only true for some types of LGD and the vast majority of meters are not sensitive enough to pick it up.
You would also get false lab readings.
In general the ones you could pick up with a meter are the ones that with a loupe could be classified as potentially lab.
Its not that useful.

 

[DejaWiz]

But if there were two D IF stones next to each other with no fluorescence/phosphorescence, no tinges, no graining, no clouds, no feathers, etc would anyone be able to tell by sight?

(I’ve heard that the electrical conductivity of lab and earth are different, so I’m excluding that aspect since I’m presuming jewelry uses for these stones.)

Short answer is no. Even LGDs cut from higher quality crystal but place in the lower clarity grades (VS2-SI2 due to their types of inclusions) will still exhibit the same optics as natural diamonds with equivalent crystal quality and would be indiscernible without a high degree of analysis.
The difference will come down to the buyer's own perspective of lab vs natural, and there's no wrong perspective at the individual subjective level. Either can be offered in highest quality or lowest quality, yet anywhere in between.

 

[lulu_ma]

But if there were two D IF stones next to each other with no fluorescence/phosphorescence, no tinges, no graining, no clouds, no feathers, etc would anyone be able to tell by sight?

(I’ve heard that the electrical conductivity of lab and earth are different, so I’m excluding that aspect since I’m presuming jewelry uses for these stones.)

I’m glad that Karl chimed in. I have never made this comparison myself. I only have one antique stone that is a D/E color and it’s a square cut. I don’t currently own any lab diamonds.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hi,

Please tell me if the synthetic diamond can be ascertained by a lab vs a natural diamond with the same specs, and are sitting side by side. I hope this is the correct language usage regarding diamonds.

Annette

There are simple tests to identify if a diamond is type I or type II that jewelers and gemolgists can use. 98% of diamonds are type I and so if a diamond is type II it is suspected as being man made.
The simplest test for lots of white diamonds in jewelry is a cheap UV torch. If about 20-35% of diamonds fluoresce they are likely to be diamonds. If none do the piece is likely to be grown diamonds.

 

[lulu_ma]

There are simple tests to identify if a diamond is type I or type II that jewelers and gemolgists can use. 98% of diamonds are type I and so if a diamond is type II it is suspected as being man made.
The simplest test for lots of white diamonds in jewelry is a cheap UV torch. If about 20-35% of diamonds fluoresce they are likely to be diamonds. If none do the piece is likely to be grown diamonds.

I have been using a UV torch to test melee on my antique rings

 

[0-0-0]

I wonder if colorless diamonds with blue fluorescence will become more valued again.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I wonder if colorless diamonds with blue fluorescence will become more valued again.

The discounts are getting less big by a touch - the first time that has happened since 1995.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Here is another miner who has deferred recent sales, but is still mining away while making losses.
They are doing what many miners do during these periods - holding back supply.
This is what people thought made De Beers EVIL. However it is waht all busuinesses do or should do when sales tank.
Of course there is no mention of man made diamonds having diverted jewelers attantion and inventory purchases:

Petra Diamonds Slides to Loss in ‘Subdued’ Market

The Rapaport | TradeWire® is a weekly email packaging the Rapaport Market Comment, the RapNet Diamond Index (RAPI™)

rapaport.com

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Sorry to veer off-topic, but oncrutchesrightnow, can you share who cut your nice moissy? I'm always prowling Etsy for nicely cut ones. I like Ankit but he's a bit too successful to be reliable these days.

Shinypreciousgems

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Thank you so much!

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Will it become like the synthetic sapphire, ruby and emerald market? Those are priced really low while the EGD versions are much more expensive. People still buy the EGD but there are plenty of synthetics if people just want the look and don’t want to pay the price.

This is a strong possibility, plus consumers who are coming-of-diamond-age in the era of LGD might never develop a sense of value for EGD, since the low-priced ones will be of poorer quality and the high quality EGD will appear to be ridiculously expensive.

Hi,

Please tell me if the synthetic diamond can be ascertained by a lab vs a natural diamond with the same specs, and are sitting side by side. I hope this is the correct language usage regarding diamonds.

Annette

You know DNA analysis? Results are reported statistically. So instead of saying “match,” the typical “match” result is reported as needing to test a zillion individuals before finding the same DNA profile. Because technically in nature, it might be possible for two people to have the exact DNA profile.

So with lab grown diamonds, many LGD tend to have certain properties that are less common in EGD, like certain growth patterns or inclusions or blue nuance or conductivity or phosphorescence. But it is possible that those things that occur more frequently in LGD might all occur at the same time in an EGD. It would just be really really unlikely. In the end, if you test a diamond and it has a whole bunch of rare characteristics all at once, then you could be justified in stating an opinion that something is LGD.

That being said, apparently at one of the recent jewelry trade get-togethers, there were innovative LGD that had color zoning by design. Who knows what else technology will create.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Thank you so much!

Service was friendly, item was good quality, I respect their skill and artistry. But IMHO it was overpriced.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Is this the lapidary in Spooner WI?

 

[Slickk]

I took one of my LGD to a local jeweler to test because it was purchased preloved (ya know, trust but confirm). This small local guy was able to test it in his $5k machine (per him) and tell me it was indeed a LGD. He also told me it was grown by CVD method. He was surprised I had heard that term and as I finished his sentence. So there is equipment out there that can definitively determine origin.

 

[DejaWiz]

I took one of my LGD to a local jeweler to test because it was purchased preloved (ya know, trust but confirm). This small local guy was able to test it in his $5k machine (per him) and tell me it was indeed a LGD. He also told me it was grown by CVD method. He was surprised I had heard that term and as I finished his sentence. So there is equipment out there that can definitively determine origin.

Do you remember if it was a Sherlock device?

 

[Slickk]

Do you remember if it was a Sherlock device?

@DejaWiz I’m sorry, I do not. But he needed to warm it up and I believe he placed the ring on a black slate-type plate? It wasn’t a very large machine as he had it right at the front counter. I was just thrilled he had a sophisticated device and decided he would be my new local jeweler.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Is this the lapidary in Spooner WI?

Yep!

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

I saw him on reddit, he's a (miserable) 5 hour drive from me. Honestly, I think Gary Braun and other PriceScope recommended gem cutters/dealers are just as good.

 

[Karl_K]

@DejaWiz I’m sorry, I do not. But he needed to warm it up and I believe he placed the ring on a black slate-type plate? It wasn’t a very large machine as he had it right at the front counter. I was just thrilled he had a sophisticated device and decided he would be my new local jeweler.

What color was the machine?

 

[Slickk]

What color was the machine?

I think it was black but not too sure .. I’ll go back in soon and check it out again.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,
I want to thank Garry for his participation in the thread. Your integrity about the subject matter is always on display. Thank You.!

i had never even gone over to the LDG board until this thread.
What I learned is the competition from LGD vs EGD may be more than I originally thought. The women over there are having fun with this new type of diamond. They are actually cutting these diamonds into all sorts of cuts that are desirable(antique). Some don't want hearts and arrows anymore. Of course, cost is a factor, but I see so much enjoyment over there that it put a smile on my face. I don't think its just a new toy." Joy has a way of spreading. I think, at least in the short term, I also want a transitional cut now.

Its hard to beat fun stuff.

Annette

 

[winnietucker]

Are we seeing antique diamond prices falling? I’m debating on when to pull the trigger on an OEC.

 

[lulu_ma]

Are we seeing antique diamond prices falling? I’m debating on when to pull the trigger on an OEC.

This depends on ctw range and color range. But generally speaking, I definitely see some buying opportunities.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Are we seeing antique diamond prices falling? I’m debating on when to pull the trigger on an OEC.

I don't know the answer but I've noticed that preloved OECs aren't selling as quickly as I have seen in the past. I'm not sure if this is because summer sales are typically slower. For my part I adore my lab OEC but love my natural OEC solitaire and antique rings with OECs/OMCs just as much as before I discovered lab diamonds. I still have my eye on a natural OEC that I was going to purchase, but the seller and I could not come to terms regarding his no return policy. That was in the spring and the diamond hasn't sold so thinking maybe I might reach out to him again to see if he has changed his mind. I just like that particular diamond.

 

[nala]

Hi,
I want to thank Garry for his participation in the thread. Your integrity about the subject matter is always on display. Thank You.!

i had never even gone over to the LDG board until this thread.
What I learned is the competition from LGD vs EGD may be more than I originally thought. The women over there are having fun with this new type of diamond. They are actually cutting these diamonds into all sorts of cuts that are desirable(antique). Some don't want hearts and arrows anymore. Of course, cost is a factor, but I see so much enjoyment over there that it put a smile on my face. I don't think its just a new toy." Joy has a way of spreading. I think, at least in the short term, I also want a transitional cut now.

Its hard to beat fun stuff.

Annette

I do wonder what will happen to that forum if and when as Gary says, prices plummet so low or lgd are crafted so similarly perfectly that there is no purpose in asking for advice anymore.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I do wonder what will happen to that forum if and when as Gary says, prices plummet so low or lgd are crafted so similarly perfectly that there is no purpose in asking for advice anymore.

Here is a snap from a video I made at the Hong Kong show day 2 in the Lab and pavilion. This was the busiest day elsewhere. The people down the far end is the moissanite and colored gem synthetics.
The best opportunity is for self purchases and hopefully added creativity. It has long been my hope that that creativity can spill over to natural diamonds. Turning 2/3rds of all natural diamonds into rounds by grinding 55% of the rough away is just nuts!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) Yay, I call them natural or lab diamonds, too! We may be the only ones, but I can't get into those initials at all!

Several random thoughts....

I am just now seeing this thread a week late, but I had recently noticed diamond prices declining. I did my studs upgrade right before the pandemic and was extremely thankful for that timing. I've watched the prices since and after a long period, they are finally coming down. I was kind of interested in some kind of diamond bracelet, but the prices have been too high. On the other hand, I am not paying $5000 for a lab bracelet, either. It basically is worth nothing in terms of heirloom value, so I will either have natural or nothing!

I don't have any problem with people who buy lab stones at all. I can certainly see labs being useful for larger studs that would be price prohibitive in high quality natural, plus you wouldn't have to insure them and they are inexpensive to replace. I'd feel dishonest if I wore lab diamonds in rings and other jewelry, though, for the same reason that I wouldn't carry a fake designer purse (yes, I realize one is stealing intellectual property and the other isn't, but they are both pretending to be something more valuable than they are).

I don't know how many people on the thread were here around in 2012-13 but diamond prices skyrocketed at that time, too. I think they may have been declining a bit in 2013, but that's when I had the opportunity to buy my AVR, and the price was still relatively high due to the timing plus the more costly cutting. I was willing to do that to get what I wanted at the time (considering I had been looking for a couple of years), but I definitely wouldn't buy any regular cut diamond when prices are at their highest. So it's encouraging to see them settling down, and I hope that might transfer to some jewelry prices like tennis bracelets declining, but I am not holding my breath on that one. Not that I need a single additional piece of jewelry anyway!!!

I would never blame the diamond vendors or jewelers who started carrying lab diamonds over the last two years! Good grief, I think it was necessary for survival considering the lack of supply of their usual natural diamond inventory!

Andddd, my very last thought is that I don't feel very sorry for people (at least those on PS) who bought lab diamonds early and paid too much. We were warned over and over by @Garry H (Cut Nut) and others (@yssie for another) that the production would increase and prices would fall! That really made sense, and while I was interested in the idea perhaps for larger studs, I surely wanted to wait until the prices fell. Now that they have, I can't imagine wearing studs larger than the ones I have in my real world, so it's good I didn't do it!