Feeling numb

[anchor31]

Please get help. Getting help is not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength. It means you''re strong enough and smart enough to know what''s best for you and to go get it. I''m sure a lot of the women here have been in therapy at a point in their lives, and you wouldn''t say we''re weak and spineless, would you? I myself, although I''m not yet 23 years old, went in therapy 3 times. One of those times was because I had detected signs of abuse after dating a guy for just 10 weeks, I walked away and he attempted to commit suicide two days later. I wasn''t even in love with him, but I felt so guilty I wanted to die. Therapy saved my life.

See a therapist. Attend Al-Anon meetings. Surround yourself with loving friends and family. Can you go spend some time with your father or your siblings and their families? Maybe they would be thrilled to have you around for a few days. Take a break, go to a spa. Do things you love. Put yourself back on the top of the list. Learn to love yourself again.

You can do it. You deserve it. Please give yourself a chance, and get him out of your life for good.

 

[Shay37]

I realize I am just emotionally purging on anyone reading this. If you made it through my post, thank you. I realize that I am farrrrrr from perfect and I have done and said some things that I wish I had not have, but I have never treated him like this. Whenever he needed me, I was there. When he needed to ''borrow'' money for his bankruptcy, I gave him the money. I paid his cell phone bill. I held him when he cried every other weekend when he had to drop off his son after visitation. I took care of him when he was sick. I bought him clothes when I saw he needed them. I forgave him, even when he didn''t ask for forgiveness. When I needed a ride to the emergency room last year because I was having fainting spells, he accused me of being a drama queen and my friend''s husband had to take me and stayed with me while I had an IV and brought me home and went grocery shopping for me. I''m finally angry about it. I never was angry before about it. I always thought something was wrong with me, and that I was unstable and high-maintenance. The sad thing is right now, all I want to do is call him and ask him to forgive me for getting angry with him for having an internet affair. I''m just sick with myself.

Hmm, what has he done for you? Oh, yeah, that''s right. He''s the only one who loves you.

The only reason this relationship isn''t physically abusive is because you''re not there long enough for him to take a chance hitting yet. My sister had one of these a$$holes. Please dump this one. He spent most every day of their three-year marriage trying to beat her to death. That was after he told her how lucky she was and that only he could love her that much.

shay

 

[mrs jam]

I have counseling set up next week. I also found information for Al-Anon and know times and dates of meetings. I have been reading and rereading all of your replies, and I know that I am having a problem. I do not like the fact that I was verbally abusive to him myself when I found out that he was having an internet relationship with someone in the Philippines and was told he was actively planning on meeting her and comparing me to her in a negative light. I left him some horrible voicemails that night. I pretty much exploded and at the time felt justified because I feel that I take so much from him on a daily basis without making a complaint, such as listening to long rants about the economy, oil prices, the president, the teenager who hit his car with his door in a parking lot, etc. I felt like I had allowed him to take away my voice. All of our conversations are one-way, and when he done and I think I finally get my turn to talk, he has to get off the phone or "is tired of talking on the phone."

I called him last night, and he actually answered. I asked him to just please be honest with me about the whole internet thing and asked him why he had me fly out there a few weeks ago when he was becoming emotionally wrapped up in someone else. I just wanted closure, and that''s what I told him. He told me I had fabricated the whole thing and blown everythign out of proportion and verbally abused him for no reason, and I almost killed him because his heart started racing and he had to go to e.r. that night I left hateful voicemails. I told him what our friend told me, in explicit detail. He did not want to hear it and told me it didn''t matter what I had heard, it was wrong. When he calmed down, he asked me finally to go over it point by point. So I told him everything I was told. His answer to most of it was that the friend must have twisted his words. He called the friend, and called me back and told me that the friend ( I will call him T) said that I called him and pressured him to tell me things, and he did because I manipulated him into telling me, and I flustered him so badly that he can''t remember what he said, he only wanted to comfort me. That is not true, though. Most of the time T. has called me, and I have never made him tell me anything. My ex told me that he felt sorry for me because I had lost someone who truly loved me and wanted to marry me because of my own inability to control my anger, and that he could not let me kill him because he has a child to think about. He said that in time, if I learned to control myself, maybe we could work things out, if he was not dating someone else at that point. He told me I was spiritually weak, and he had only been trying to make sure we do good and not be intimate but he could tell I was mad at him for that, which is not true.

The friend called me this morning, and I asked him why he said that I had manipulated him. He was shocked and told me he never told my ex that. He said my ex had called him last night ranting at him and mad at him for telling me about the woman. I don''t know who to believe, and I don''t care. I was a fool to think I would get closure. He just sent me a text telling me he was so glad we were able to make peace last night, and he wished me well, and that he was finally happy and at peace to be alone.

 

[blondie23]

WHY ARE YOU STILL CALLING HIM????????????????????????????

I have to agree with others who have said that you are just as much a part of the dysfunctional cycle which you know deep down you aren't willing to break out of. If you were willing to break the cycle of absue, you WOULD NOT be calling him. STOP NOW...for your own sake! Your post makes me incredibly angry and frustrated as well. You know the path you need to take and I hope that you can find your own self worth and get yourself out of this!

 

[mrs jam]

I cannot stop feeling horrible for the hateful voicemails I left him after I found out what he was doing. I don''t like to think of myself as being verbally abusive, and I just exploded because I felt very used. He sent me texts telling me I was mean and hateful and was trying to kill him when he has a child to support, and I jsut wanted him to know that although I couldn''t excuse what I said, I said it out of hurt and I lashed out.

 

[firebirdgold]

Good for you Mrs. Jam!

You''ll be tempted, but don''t contact him ever again. He can''t ever give you closure, you''ll have to find it for yourself. Also, please don''t compare yourself to him. Being rightfully angry because he''s emotionally cheating on you and yelling is not the same thing as consistent and systematic abuse.

 

[blondie23]

Ok, so you feel awful...you are allowed to feel that way, BUT that does not mean you are required to call him to explain why you lashed out...and if he is threatening to harm himself, then it is now out of your hands. Call professionals (police, therapists), ANYONE BUT NOT YOU...he has too many problems and you cannot save him. He is attempting to make you feel exactly how you feel and that is why he is threatening you with words like having to go to the hospital.

START OWNING YOUR OWN LIFE!!!! You realize that you said some hurtful things...MOVE ON, next time you are in a REAL relationship learn from this one and remember to not lash out...heck, if you''re in a HEALTHY relationship you won''t need to lash out...this is ridiculous

STOP coming on to PS asking for help when you aren''t changing anything...when you''re willing to make a change, people on here will be willing to listen and offer advice

This thread makes me so angry because you are just encouraging and adding to the dysfunction...YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO LEAVE HIM AND STOP TALKING TO HIM....DO IT!

 

[luckystar112]

Geeze.

A few things:

1) You WERE justified in reacting the way you did to his internet affair/how he treats you. Until you realize this, you are going to keep going back into the same cycle.

2) Plotting friends against eachother just seems kind of pointless, in my opinion. Your relationship with the demon is different from the friend''s relationship with the demon. This mutual friend is looking out for your best interests..stop throwing him under the bus!!! By the way, the fact that the friend is even telling you these things is a HUGE SIGN that should not be ignored. I once had a guy''s MOTHER tell me that I should leave her son. Of course I ignored her. Big mistake. Another way to tell how a guy is is how he treats his mother...you say they argue all the time?

3) Notice how ONCE AGAIN he is spinning things around on YOU. You almost killed him, you verball abused him, you pressured and manipulated his friend, he feels sorry for you, you can''t control your anger, you''re spiritually weak, you can''t be around his child, and my favorite...IF you learn to control YOURSELF he may be SO GRACIOUS as to all you to spend money to fly out to see him and abuse you in person. LUCKY FRICKEN YOU!!!

Do you not realize that you are in the BEST possible position that you can be in??

You don''t live anywhere near him
You have your own money
THANK GOD you don''t have a kid with him!

I mean, what are you doing? What''s the appeal? You need to cut this loser off. And if anyone knows how hard that is, its me...which is why I''m glad you are looking to get yourself help for your OWN self esteem and self worth.
But you really need to BREAK OFF ALL CONTACT with him.

Just a side note....abuse does not discriminate. I had a professor who was drop-dead gorgeous, just hit her mid-thirties, had two master''s degrees, wrote for the NEW YORKER...she was just marvelous. Yet at least once a week she come to class bawling her eyes out due to her abusive boyfriend that she was hooked on. One day she''d be wearing the e-ring, the next day she would show up not wearing it and she would start crying and cancel class. It completely took over her professional life. Students, some of whom were 18 and 19 were asking her why she stayed in the relationship. Ridiculous.

Mrs jam: Right now, YOU control your own destiny. It is no longer HIM doing anything to you, but YOU prolonging it by calling him and needing closure. You did the right thing by moving away. Now do the right thing and go to those meetings and get your SELF ESTEEM back!!!

 

[risingsun]

Mrs Jam~I am a Licensed Professional Counselor and have experience--both professional and personal--dealing with domestic abuse. This man is trying to make you feel guilty for finally fighting back. You have done nothing wrong. Please stop berating yourself. It is imperative that you stop all contact with him. I know this will be very difficult, but it is for your own safety and emotional well-being. He is behaving the way abusers behave. You are not almost killing him, but he is almost killing you. I can't make a diagnosis for someone I haven't met, but my impression is that you may be presenting with symptoms of PTSD. You have taken a courageous step by setting up an appointment to see a counselor. It will take time, effort, and pain to move past this terrible chapter in your life. Please start now.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 4/11/2008 3:26:13 PM
Author: IndieJones

Good for you Mrs. Jam!

You''ll be tempted, but don''t contact him ever again. He can''t ever give you closure, you''ll have to find it for yourself. Also, please don''t compare yourself to him. Being rightfully angry because he''s emotionally cheating on you and yelling is not the same thing as consistent and systematic abuse.

Ditto, stay away from him and if you need to talk we are here for you. He is sick and you can do much better; be good to yourself.

 

[partgypsy]

Mrs Jam, first I want to say I am proud of your courage of sharing what is going on in your life. It is a funny thing, the person who is being abused is the one who feels embarrassed- rather than the abuser who should be the one embarrassed. I''ve never been in a romantic relationship that was abusive, but unfortunately have been in a professional relationship that was the opposite of professional in every sense of the word and very harmful to my self-esteem, health and overall well-being. I hung in there, feeling I just needed hang tough (especially at that point I was involved in a large grant I wanted to see though, and had a newborn child). By the end of it I was like you, even though I knew something was skewed, at the same time I beated myself for any tiny flaw I had and didn''t feel I deserved anything better situation-wise, in fact was lucky to have that job, finally absorbing all the poisonous garbage this person was feeding me day in and day out.
I could write a book what happened to me, and probably alot of people wouldn''t believe it!

Suffice to say, I was so beaten down that after I left that situation, I was continually surprised finding out all the stuff I had come to believe by the end was NOT true. I was a good person. I was competent, I could find another job (in fact one that paid better with nicer benefits!), I had value as a person, and on and on.

You will never (re)learn all the lovely things about yourself until you remove his influence from your life. And though there will be guilt and depression from all that time, effort, love that was wasted from that experience, there will also be joy when you reclaim your life.

As someone said you are so so lucky you are not dependent on him financially, do not live with him etc.
Repeat to yourself: You do not owe him anything. He is someone else''s problem now.

 

[mrs jam]

I just feel that I am crazy because one minute I am clear-headed and I do believe that he was abusive, but then later I go over things in my head and wonder if I really was overreacting and being too sensitive and blew up at him over nothing. That''s why I think I am writing so many things down because so many memories are swirling around in my head, some things pop up randomly for no reason. I KNOW that this is the best thing to happen, and I KNOW that like my friend said I should be on my knees thanking God that he never wants to talk to me again since I don''t have the strength to cut the ties myself. I just can''t shake the feeling that somehow, in some way, he is right and it is all my fault. I don''t know why I feel that way, but I just do.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/11/2008 4:05:55 PM
Author: mrs jam
I just feel that I am crazy because one minute I am clear-headed and I do believe that he was abusive, but then later I go over things in my head and wonder if I really was overreacting and being too sensitive and blew up at him over nothing. That''s why I think I am writing so many things down because so many memories are swirling around in my head, some things pop up randomly for no reason. I KNOW that this is the best thing to happen, and I KNOW that like my friend said I should be on my knees thanking God that he never wants to talk to me again since I don''t have the strength to cut the ties myself. I just can''t shake the feeling that somehow, in some way, he is right and it is all my fault. I don''t know why I feel that way, but I just do.

Please seek support from professionals to help you stay away from him. He will be back apologising and begging you to forgive him, guaranteed. You need to end this yourself, not rely on him to do it. He won''t.

DD

 

[HollyS]

Date: 4/11/2008 2:57:22 PM
Author: mrs jam
I have counseling set up next week. I also found information for Al-Anon and know times and dates of meetings. I have been reading and rereading all of your replies, and I know that I am having a problem. I do not like the fact that I was verbally abusive to him myself when I found out that he was having an internet relationship with someone in the Philippines and was told he was actively planning on meeting her and comparing me to her in a negative light. I left him some horrible voicemails that night. I pretty much exploded and at the time felt justified because I feel that I take so much from him on a daily basis without making a complaint, such as listening to long rants about the economy, oil prices, the president, the teenager who hit his car with his door in a parking lot, etc. I felt like I had allowed him to take away my voice. All of our conversations are one-way, and when he done and I think I finally get my turn to talk, he has to get off the phone or ''is tired of talking on the phone.''

I called him last night, and he actually answered. I asked him to just please be honest with me about the whole internet thing and asked him why he had me fly out there a few weeks ago when he was becoming emotionally wrapped up in someone else. I just wanted closure, and that''s what I told him. He told me I had fabricated the whole thing and blown everythign out of proportion and verbally abused him for no reason, and I almost killed him because his heart started racing and he had to go to e.r. that night I left hateful voicemails. I told him what our friend told me, in explicit detail. He did not want to hear it and told me it didn''t matter what I had heard, it was wrong. When he calmed down, he asked me finally to go over it point by point. So I told him everything I was told. His answer to most of it was that the friend must have twisted his words. He called the friend, and called me back and told me that the friend ( I will call him T) said that I called him and pressured him to tell me things, and he did because I manipulated him into telling me, and I flustered him so badly that he can''t remember what he said, he only wanted to comfort me. That is not true, though. Most of the time T. has called me, and I have never made him tell me anything. My ex told me that he felt sorry for me because I had lost someone who truly loved me and wanted to marry me because of my own inability to control my anger, and that he could not let me kill him because he has a child to think about. He said that in time, if I learned to control myself, maybe we could work things out, if he was not dating someone else at that point. He told me I was spiritually weak, and he had only been trying to make sure we do good and not be intimate but he could tell I was mad at him for that, which is not true.

The friend called me this morning, and I asked him why he said that I had manipulated him. He was shocked and told me he never told my ex that. He said my ex had called him last night ranting at him and mad at him for telling me about the woman. I don''t know who to believe, and I don''t care. I was a fool to think I would get closure. He just sent me a text telling me he was so glad we were able to make peace last night, and he wished me well, and that he was finally happy and at peace to be alone.

WHY DO YOU KEEP GOING BACK FOR MORE OF THE SAME??????

You are an educated woman; how can you be this clueless???

Everyone here, to a person, agrees that you need to DROP HIM THIS INSTANT AND NEVER HAVE CONTACT WITH HIM AGAIN. And yet, you keep asking for more grief. And, you "don''t know who to believe".

I really think this needs to be the last post on this subject. Either you are going to get help -- AND STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM HIM -- or you aren''t. We don''t want to hear you justify his behavior again; ''cause I''ll be frank if no one else will, you appear to be your own worst enemy.

 

[sunnyd]

MrsJam, you feel that way because he MADE you feel that way. Plain and simple.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 4/11/2008 4:20:12 PM
Author: HollyS

WHY DO YOU KEEP GOING BACK FOR MORE OF THE SAME??????

You are an educated woman; how can you be this clueless???

Everyone here, to a person, agrees that you need to DROP HIM THIS INSTANT AND NEVER HAVE CONTACT WITH HIM AGAIN. And yet, you keep asking for more grief. And, you ''don''t know who to believe''.

I really think this needs to be the last post on this subject. Either you are going to get help -- AND STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM HIM -- or you aren''t. We don''t want to hear you justify his behavior again; ''cause I''ll be frank if no one else will, you appear to be your own worst enemy.

Hollly I fail to see how YELLING at the OP and berating her are helping this situation. You''ve posted repeatedly in this thread, all in caps, and normally very critical and in this case actually berating her.

Abuse is not an easy cycle to break. That the whole point. And you can''t break it by yelling at a person repeatedly and bullying them.

 

[mrs jam]

I want you all to know that I do know THIS IS NOT NORMAL. I do NOT KNOW what is happening in my head. I do not have any history of abusive relationships; my divorce was very abnormally amicable and mutual. There was a pretty significant age difference between my ex-husband and me, not that that caused the divorce, but we we just realized we were at different points in our lives. I never felt mistreated by him, nor he by me. We talk, as friends, pretty consistently. Before my marriage, I had a long-term relationship throughout college, and there was no abuse of any kind in that relationship either. I was not abused as a child, either, although I did used to feel like I was walking on eggshells around my dad because he did like to yell a lot, but I never felt stressed by it, just wanted to avoid it and not get grounded, like any typical teenager.

So there is no pattern there. Until this relationship, I never felt I was an overly emotional person. I noticed all the red flags that were popping up in the very beginning, but for some reason chose to ignore them, or thought things would get better once he got a stable job and felt better about himself. I reasoned that the religion wouldn''t be a big deal, since both of his ex-wives are of the same faith he is, but they still got divorced. So if religion couldn''t keep them together, why should it break us apart?

I do know something happened to me along the way. I know that. My family and ex-husband all tell me I am so different now. I cry easily, and I never was a crier before. Small kindnesses from people mean so much to me now, and I guess that is a good thing. I feel like such a nasty person that sometimes I can''t believe someone would think anything good of me. and I know how pathetic that sounds.

 

[Lanie]

Mrs. Jam,

I read most of your original post, and couldn''t get past the 4th paragraph. This guy is clearly a poison to you. Some people on this forum are being quite rude to you, and I feel bad for that. When you are in a relationship like this, when you are feeling clear headed one minute, and then sorry/confused the next, it''s hard to walk away. He has manipulated you for so long, so it''s going to be very, very hard. You do need to cut all ties with him, though. Change your number...move out...whatever you have to do. Because it''s going to end up causing you even more grief if you stick around to receive it. People treat you how you LET them treat you. You''ve, unfortunately, let him get in your head. Now you''ve got to get him out. He is seeing other women, he''s sucking you dry financially, and it''s going to hurt. But I promise...let yourself go through this cleansing. Let yourself go through this pain, and know and believe that you are better off without him, period. You will find someone else that adores you and appreciates you, but you can''t do that until you heal yourself.

I''m sorry you are going through this, and ignore anything hurtful from people on here who are trying to help you, and don''t know what you are feeling.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 4/11/2008 4:35:01 PM
Author: mrs jam
I want you all to know that I do know THIS IS NOT NORMAL. I do NOT KNOW what is happening in my head. I do not have any history of abusive relationships; my divorce was very abnormally amicable and mutual. There was a pretty significant age difference between my ex-husband and me, not that that caused the divorce, but we we just realized we were at different points in our lives. I never felt mistreated by him, nor he by me. We talk, as friends, pretty consistently. Before my marriage, I had a long-term relationship throughout college, and there was no abuse of any kind in that relationship either. I was not abused as a child, either, although I did used to feel like I was walking on eggshells around my dad because he did like to yell a lot, but I never felt stressed by it, just wanted to avoid it and not get grounded, like any typical teenager.

So there is no pattern there. Until this relationship, I never felt I was an overly emotional person. I noticed all the red flags that were popping up in the very beginning, but for some reason chose to ignore them, or thought things would get better once he got a stable job and felt better about himself. I reasoned that the religion wouldn''t be a big deal, since both of his ex-wives are of the same faith he is, but they still got divorced. So if religion couldn''t keep them together, why should it break us apart?

I do know something happened to me along the way. I know that. My family and ex-husband all tell me I am so different now. I cry easily, and I never was a crier before. Small kindnesses from people mean so much to me now, and I guess that is a good thing. I feel like such a nasty person that sometimes I can''t believe someone would think anything good of me. and I know how pathetic that sounds.

Mrs. Jam, you seem very self-aware. You know it''s not normal, you even know it''s abusive, but you can''t seem to break the cycle of him pushing you away and pulling you back. Even when he told you he was at peace with being alone, you still couldn''t let go. For some reason you can''t walk away. And you know it.

So what''s holding you back? If you can''t seem to identify what is keeping you from walking away from an abusive person, then why not see a therapist? They work with women who are in these situations all the time can can provide insight that you couldn''t have on your own. The bottom line is if you can''t understand WHY you stay, nothing will change.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/11/2008 4:24:08 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 4/11/2008 4:20:12 PM
Author: HollyS

WHY DO YOU KEEP GOING BACK FOR MORE OF THE SAME??????

You are an educated woman; how can you be this clueless???

Everyone here, to a person, agrees that you need to DROP HIM THIS INSTANT AND NEVER HAVE CONTACT WITH HIM AGAIN. And yet, you keep asking for more grief. And, you ''don''t know who to believe''.

I really think this needs to be the last post on this subject. Either you are going to get help -- AND STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM HIM -- or you aren''t. We don''t want to hear you justify his behavior again; ''cause I''ll be frank if no one else will, you appear to be your own worst enemy.

Hollly I fail to see how YELLING at the OP and berating her are helping this situation. You''ve posted repeatedly in this thread, all in caps, and normally very critical and in this case actually berating her.

Abuse is not an easy cycle to break. That the whole point. And you can''t break it by yelling at a person repeatedly and bullying them.

Ditto. Change is hard. If change was easy, we''d all excercise everyday, have an ideal BMI, never yell at anyone, and basically be perfect, right?

DD

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/11/2008 4:35:01 PM
Author: mrs jam
I want you all to know that I do know THIS IS NOT NORMAL. I do NOT KNOW what is happening in my head. I do not have any history of abusive relationships; my divorce was very abnormally amicable and mutual. There was a pretty significant age difference between my ex-husband and me, not that that caused the divorce, but we we just realized we were at different points in our lives. I never felt mistreated by him, nor he by me. We talk, as friends, pretty consistently. Before my marriage, I had a long-term relationship throughout college, and there was no abuse of any kind in that relationship either. I was not abused as a child, either, although I did used to feel like I was walking on eggshells around my dad because he did like to yell a lot, but I never felt stressed by it, just wanted to avoid it and not get grounded, like any typical teenager.

So there is no pattern there. Until this relationship, I never felt I was an overly emotional person. I noticed all the red flags that were popping up in the very beginning, but for some reason chose to ignore them, or thought things would get better once he got a stable job and felt better about himself. I reasoned that the religion wouldn''t be a big deal, since both of his ex-wives are of the same faith he is, but they still got divorced. So if religion couldn''t keep them together, why should it break us apart?

I do know something happened to me along the way. I know that. My family and ex-husband all tell me I am so different now. I cry easily, and I never was a crier before. Small kindnesses from people mean so much to me now, and I guess that is a good thing. I feel like such a nasty person that sometimes I can''t believe someone would think anything good of me. and I know how pathetic that sounds.

I have no doubt that you feel like a different person right now. When someone who professes to love you says mean things to you, treats you badly, and abuses you, your self-concept can change, your self-esteem can change, confusion can set it. These are common outcomes of a confusing and abusive situation. You may also be experiencing depression, which can accompany the types of denigrating comments and experiences that you have had with your EX(hopefully)BF.

You have had relationships in the past, you will have other relationships in the future. You don''t need this man. I know you don''t believe it now, but you have to put your faith in the unknown and trust the advice of the people who know you and care about you, who you say are telling you this guy isn''t good for you. Blind faith at this point could really help you get out and get some perspective and move on. A therapist and Al-anon may be able to help give you that perspective in time, but at first you need to put blind faith in the notion that leaving him, changing you phone numbers, and never contacting him again are really the best things you can do.

DD

 

[HollyS]

Date: 4/11/2008 4:24:08 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 4/11/2008 4:20:12 PM
Author: HollyS

WHY DO YOU KEEP GOING BACK FOR MORE OF THE SAME??????

You are an educated woman; how can you be this clueless???

Everyone here, to a person, agrees that you need to DROP HIM THIS INSTANT AND NEVER HAVE CONTACT WITH HIM AGAIN. And yet, you keep asking for more grief. And, you ''don''t know who to believe''.

I really think this needs to be the last post on this subject. Either you are going to get help -- AND STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM HIM -- or you aren''t. We don''t want to hear you justify his behavior again; ''cause I''ll be frank if no one else will, you appear to be your own worst enemy.

Hollly I fail to see how YELLING at the OP and berating her are helping this situation. You''ve posted repeatedly in this thread, all in caps, and normally very critical and in this case actually berating her.

Abuse is not an easy cycle to break. That the whole point. And you can''t break it by yelling at a person repeatedly and bullying them.

Yelling is perhaps what she needs most. She certainly isn''t "listening" to any quietly presented advice. This has been going on for months now; she didn''t take any steps to extricate herself before. (And, if you read all posts, I''m certainly not the only caps user here.)

Having said that, let me say this. Mrs Jam, I sincerely want you to get yourself out of this situation. I would "yell" at either of my sisters if they were in your shoes; really I would. And if I didn''t give a damn, i would have just rolled my eyes at your post and never responded. But, you asked for help. Not a pat on the head -- help. And, frankly, Mrs. Jam, after tons of advice on this thread, you still don''t seem committed to making any real change in your life. You''re giving it lip service, but I don''t sense that you really think that this relationship is over. I think you''re still trying to "fix" it. Please remember, a licensed therapist has called him "seriously mentall ill with a possible sociopathic personality". You can do this. It may not be easy. But you can do this.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 4/11/2008 4:20:12 PM
Author: HollyS




WHY DO YOU KEEP GOING BACK FOR MORE OF THE SAME??????

You are an educated woman; how can you be this clueless???

Everyone here, to a person, agrees that you need to DROP HIM THIS INSTANT AND NEVER HAVE CONTACT WITH HIM AGAIN. And yet, you keep asking for more grief. And, you 'don't know who to believe'.

I really think this needs to be the last post on this subject. Either you are going to get help -- AND STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM HIM -- or you aren't. We don't want to hear you justify his behavior again; 'cause I'll be frank if no one else will, you appear to be your own worst enemy.

Holly~abuse happens to women at all socioeconomic levels. When a woman has been subjected to this level of abuse, she is no longer able to think clearly or make rational decisions. Her sense of self is eroded and she is filled with self blame and intense shame. Let's not add to that by making her feel worse than she already does.

Your local, neighborhood shrink.

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Mrs. Jam - I've read most of the thread, and I have to tell you, I agree with the majority of the advice given here.

I have to say, I do wish the internet had been so prolific 11-13 years ago. I, too, was in a relationship much like yours - minus the previous marriages and bankruptcies, but he was Mormon, I was Catholic, and his Bishop told him to stop seeing me.

Anyway, your posts echo so much of what I was feeling back then, but I didn't have this wonderful community to come to, so I stuck it out for almost 3 years, and very nearly married him!

Please - just drop all contact with him. You deserve so much better. I know it's hard, but everytime you feel the need to contact him - just post here!

 

[dianne]

Date: 4/11/2008 2:57:22 PM
Author: mrs jam
I have counseling set up next week. I also found information for Al-Anon and know times and dates of meetings. I have been reading and rereading all of your replies, and I know that I am having a problem. I do not like the fact that I was verbally abusive to him myself when I found out that he was having an internet relationship with someone in the Philippines and was told he was actively planning on meeting her and comparing me to her in a negative light. I left him some horrible voicemails that night. I pretty much exploded and at the time felt justified because I feel that I take so much from him on a daily basis without making a complaint, such as listening to long rants about the economy, oil prices, the president, the teenager who hit his car with his door in a parking lot, etc. I felt like I had allowed him to take away my voice. All of our conversations are one-way, and when he done and I think I finally get my turn to talk, he has to get off the phone or ''is tired of talking on the phone.''

I called him last night, and he actually answered. I asked him to just please be honest with me about the whole internet thing and asked him why he had me fly out there a few weeks ago when he was becoming emotionally wrapped up in someone else. I just wanted closure, and that''s what I told him. He told me I had fabricated the whole thing and blown everythign out of proportion and verbally abused him for no reason, and I almost killed him because his heart started racing and he had to go to e.r. that night I left hateful voicemails. I told him what our friend told me, in explicit detail. He did not want to hear it and told me it didn''t matter what I had heard, it was wrong. When he calmed down, he asked me finally to go over it point by point. So I told him everything I was told. His answer to most of it was that the friend must have twisted his words. He called the friend, and called me back and told me that the friend ( I will call him T) said that I called him and pressured him to tell me things, and he did because I manipulated him into telling me, and I flustered him so badly that he can''t remember what he said, he only wanted to comfort me. That is not true, though. Most of the time T. has called me, and I have never made him tell me anything. My ex told me that he felt sorry for me because I had lost someone who truly loved me and wanted to marry me because of my own inability to control my anger, and that he could not let me kill him because he has a child to think about. He said that in time, if I learned to control myself, maybe we could work things out, if he was not dating someone else at that point. He told me I was spiritually weak, and he had only been trying to make sure we do good and not be intimate but he could tell I was mad at him for that, which is not true.

The friend called me this morning, and I asked him why he said that I had manipulated him. He was shocked and told me he never told my ex that. He said my ex had called him last night ranting at him and mad at him for telling me about the woman. I don''t know who to believe, and I don''t care. I was a fool to think I would get closure. He just sent me a text telling me he was so glad we were able to make peace last night, and he wished me well, and that he was finally happy and at peace to be alone.

Well, I have not read every word but I have read most of your postings. My heart hurt for you from your first paragraph but I am having a tough time understanding some of your reasoning. I know you are having a terrible time. Even though you may not like the fact you were verbally abusive to him, don''t you kind-of-maybe-a-little think he deserved it? Personally, I think you should have thrown him some verbal zingers that would have made his ears bleed -- I mean, how much do you think you should take?

When I read that you had called him I was actually yelling NO at my computer screen. Girl, you have got to let it go. Keep your therapist appointments, find strength in some of the amazing responses from folks here that know what you are going through, and get yourself in a good place. You really do deserve it...problem is, you have to believe that. (((HUGS)))

 

[diamondfan]

Mrs Jam, it is CLASSIC for an abuser to make YOU question what you have done, to make YOU feel guilt and to wonder if you deserve this or caused it. He is making out well, he can cheat on you, you appear when he wants you and you pay his bills. RUN DO NOT WALK FOR THE NEAREST EXIT. You do not live in the same place, thank god, so you must be strong and cease contact. DO NOT talk to him to end it, do not feel you owe him anything. He is ultra manipulative and just beyond belief in what he is managing to do to you. Please see it for what it is. He is using you, and will continue to as long as you are a willing participant.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Ever since your initial, clear-headed post, your subsequent posts have been completely irrational. It makes no sense to ask us for advice on whether or not the relationship is unhealthy (decided point at this point) and then to expect us to go over his every single disgusting, self-centered, ridiculous comment. I wouldn''t listen to the comments of a man like that IRL, so I don''t get why you think we would want to analyze them now. When we say LEAVE, this is UNHEALTHY, this is RIDICULOUS, we mean it. We don''t mean that we want to dissect every conversation you''ve had with him. And certainly not the pointless one you had last night with him after DOZENS of people spent considerable time leaving you thoughtful, concerned advice about this abusive and unhealthy relationship. (You think it had to do with closure, but I think it had to do with the high you get from thinking about/interacting with him.)

I was horrible to my DH one night in September. I had champagne, then my first martini of my life, then wine with dinner, and I had PMS. I became a horrible person I had never been before. I verbally and physically abused my DH. I basically had a psychotic episode.

And DH was hurt and mad and disgusted with me. Well, who wouldn''t be? But in the end, he forgave me, and more importantly, I forgave me. It was hard because I''m a perfectionist and my attitude is always, well, if you''re not an idiot then you won''t make stupid mistakes. DH didn''t deserve to be treated that way, and frankly, I don''t think I''d respect him if he put up with it. I respect myself and others too much to ever think it is ok to disrespect a human being, to call that person names, to play games, to be some big pit of need that I expect someone else to fill. In that dark hour I saw that part of myself that was this bottomless pit, so I don''t want to be some unsympathetic hypocrite, but also in that dark hour I still knew that I HAD A CHOICE not to live in some ridiculous, horrible, dysfunctional relationship. You HAVE A CHOICE. Every time you giddily recount his every narcissistic, insipid response to your attempts to engage him, I feel you are farther and farther from allowing yourself to recognize that YOU must make that choice. To me, that choice was to say that love, self-respect, harmony, these are more important than me, than feelings, than alcohol, than anything. I will tell you this right now. I would leave any person, any institution, any family, any friendship that proved to be patently unhealthy. Yours was there in July of last year and surely before. Why have you wasted the time from then until now fixating on this? Why are you wasting tonight? Why will you waste tomorrow?

How can you expect him to respect you if you don''t respect yourself? He is an adult. Even if you are a horrible person who does horrible things, he has no right to abuse you. As much as I knew I had no right to abuse DH, as sorry as I was the next morning when he was hurt and confused, I still would NEVER accept abuse as some kind of penance for my irrational behavior. As much as I hoped for his forgiveness, I still knew that there is a difference between a mistake and a pattern, and that if I ever fell into the latter category I would be the first one to tell my DH to dump me. A person who is willing to accept abuse should never expect anything better.

Please don''t distract yourself with analyzing his every move. The choice is and always will be in your hands.

 

[LGK]

I have read about half the posts here. Many people have had some really excellent advice for you, Ms. Jam. I really hope you take it. I'm glad you are thinking of going to a therapist again. That's a VERY good idea. It just kills me to see this happen to women.

Abusers are very, very good at keeping the victim tied to them, dependant and with their self esteem in shreds. They're also usually master manipulators. Don't feel bad that you have fallen into this trap. So many smart, articulate women do.

Really this can be summed up in the immortal words of Dan Savage. DTMFA, for god's sake. ("Dump The MFer Already", if you don't know!)

Followed by changing your phone number, and breaking ALL contact with this buttmunch. Seriously. He is not worth another microsecond of your time. Or the agonizing you're doing over this.

I seriously almost got sick reading how you felt so bad STILL for taking him off the phone plan he'd manipulated into getting for him. EW. You still felt in the wrong for this! My dear god, that is so awful. He has poisoned your mind, no joke. He's destroyed your self esteem and replaced your confidence with dependence on HIM. They separate you from those who love you and in isolation, tear you apart. Please, please stop buying into his BS!

I really hope this works out for you and you move on and start rebuilding your life. You deserve so much better.

 

[Kaleigh]

I hope the counselor will work with you on getting back your self esteem. mrs jam. You have lost yourself in this abusive relationship. You WILL get your old self back, but it will take lots of work. He's made you feel badly because that's what abusers do. They have it all down.

Take this time to build yourself back up, taking stock in yourself.

Repeat I am of value, I am strong, I am a good person. Keep saying that till you believe it in your own heart.

People who don't know about abuse, you can't yell to the roof tops. You may want to, as it's so foreign to you. But it takes a lot for someone to walk away. It's about gettng them to make some small steps on their own, hoping those steps lead to greater strides. Being supportive is key, even when you want to scream.

Can you tell I have dealt with this before. Kills me. But that's what I have learned, so passing it on.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 4/11/2008 2:57:22 PM
Author: mrs jam

I have counseling set up next week. I also found information for Al-Anon and know times and dates of meetings. I have been reading and rereading all of your replies, and I know that I am having a problem.

These are wonderful steps! Can you, now, take that step out the door to an Al-Anon meeting? Remember, if you do not like one, try another. Not all meetings are alike! I really commend you on doing the footwork necessary for positive action!

Hugs,
Deb