First timer looking for deep blue cushion cut sapphire

[corundummy]

Hi PSers,
Despite some interest in geology, I'm a total gemstone novice. I'm hoping to put together a sapphire and diamond engagement ring for a special lady. After talking about it with her and looking through a multitude of pictures, I think a three stone piece with a deep blue (but not purple) sapphire in a cushion cut at the center is what I'm after. My total budget for the ring is 8-10k, so I'm hoping to keep the stone in the 2-3k area and ~2ct.

Here are a few she's liked

The top of this page:
http://www.finewatergems.com/sapphire.html

stones 1223 and 1208
http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html#thumb

I'm a bit leery of going too dark as I don't want the stone to "black out" (one of the many new terms I've learned form these forums). Are there any other particular stones you can think of that might be worth checking out?

I'm have no idea how much the setting/secondary stones is going to cost. If I'm aiming for something like this http://www.frontjewelers.net/media/...9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/0/3035.jpg with small, average clarity/color diamonds and white gold how much should I be planning to spend?

I also have to say: what a great forum! I'm hoping leaching off the expertise here will allow me lavish my lover with the gems she deserves!

 

[chrono]

So you are looking to create a 3 stone ring with a center blue sapphire and 2 side white diamonds? The picture you posted shows side trapezoids which are typically more expensive than side cushions. Pricing of the setting will depend on the ct weight and other Cs of the side stones.

1228 isn't an intense blue whilst 1208 is dark in tone. Note that 1228 is not eye clean but could be covered by a prong.
The Finewater sapphire is gorgeous but due to the depth, the almost 2 ct sapphire faces up like a 1 ct sapphire.

 

[corundummy]

Thanks for the info about cushion vs. trapezoid cut, hadn't considered that. I actually do prefer the look of the trapezoid cut, but I won't mind having them a bit small (perhaps 0.8ct combined).

Thanks for the opinions on the sapphires, I hadn't considered the depth on the finewater stone (which is my current favorite). I'll keep looking for other sapphires that might be a good fit.

 

[chrono]

You might be able to find a cheaper pair elsewhere but even at 0.8 cttw, it's looking very steep.
http://www.africagems.com/calibrated-trapezoid-step-vs-gh.html
$2K +2K = $4K, not including the setting and labour.

Don't know this vendor but just looked here for comps: $2K for a 0.8 cttw pair but no pictures and I don't know how reputable they are, so as I said, this is just to suss out the price range.
http://www.israel-diamonds.com/search/diamond-pairs/

ETA
Not sure I trust the pricing and quality of Israel Diamonds. I went to James Allen to check out cushions pairs and prices are coming back in the $4K range for a pair of 0.8 cttw cushions for G/H SI1.

 

[Niel]

Thanks for the info about cushion vs. trapezoid cut, hadn't considered that. I actually do prefer the look of the trapezoid cut, but I won't mind having them a bit small (perhaps 0.8ct combined).

Thanks for the opinions on the sapphires, I hadn't considered the depth on the finewater stone (which is my current favorite). I'll keep looking for other sapphires that might be a good fit.

I love that finewater one. I'm I big fan of him, I feel his photos are very accurate.

 

[Niel]

I also wanted to say that side stones like the fancy cut ones you're considering are not going to need to be that big, probably half that,or more!

Take a look at these. This is my cushion, its 6.5mm, and the side stones are .36 total CTW! You'd think they would be itty bitty but any larger they wouldn't even pair with the stone

 

[Niel]

.8 tcw side with a huge stone

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/Three-diamond-404ct-princess-cut-w-x-si2-gia-cool-princess-cut-r4223


http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/yellow-cushion-cut-diamond-201ct-w-x-vs1-cushion-cut-gia-beautiful-cut-and-color-r4764

Here's one closer to your size and its only .16 tcw!
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-colorless-diamond-102ct-f-vvs1-cushion-cut-gia-great-sparkle-r5611

 

[chrono]

I agree with Neil that the sidestones do not need to be that huge. 0.6 cttw for trapezoids translate to 5 x 3 mm, which would pair up well with a 7 x 5 mm cushion. You should be able to get 0.6 cttw for around $2.5K or less. I think 0.8 cttw works out to around 5.7 x 3.5 mm, which would overwhelm the center sapphire.

 

[Niel]

This is one I'd consider if its the right color for you. I have heard his photos are pretty accurate and ive seen people get great sapphires from him, so maybe his descriptions are accurate? Its 3300 but he might take an offer
http://www.mastercutgems.com/preview.php?cat=301&id=7824

 

[corundummy]

Thanks for pointing out the face up size of the secondary stones. Seems like a fairly small stone would be what I'd want.

Niel that stone looks very nice to me. I'm a bit concerned that I'll need a stone that is close to square to look good with the trapezoids flanking it, but I'll have to search out some examples.

Anyone care to guess a ballpark number on how much the setting/labor would run? I've never had jewelry made before.

 

[Niel]

Thanks for pointing out the face up size of the secondary stones. Seems like a fairly small stone would be what I'd want.

Niel that stone looks very nice to me. I'm a bit concerned that I'll need a stone that is close to square to look good with the trapezoids flanking it, but I'll have to search out some examples.

Anyone care to guess a ballpark number on how much the setting/labor would run? I've never had jewelry made before.

It can vary greatly. I would expect to pay at least 4k for a nice one in platinum including side stones. I do think ypu can get everything you want in your budget, but consider when you go up in size your cost will increase exponentially. A larger stone will mean larger side stones ....see what I mean? Each costs more $$. Kwim?

What size is her finger? I am quite taken with that finewater one, do you think she would be happy with one that size? If you bought that one I am fairly confident you could get the setting for your remaining budget with a nice company. Someone like brilliantly engaged.

 

[corundummy]

I also think that finewater one is quite nice, but I'm a bit concerned about it facing up really small. Her ring size is a 6.

 

[PieAreSquared]

So you are looking to create a 3 stone ring with a center blue sapphire and 2 side white diamonds? The picture you posted shows side trapezoids which are typically more expensive than side cushions. Pricing of the setting will depend on the ct weight and other Cs of the side stones.

1228 isn't an intense blue whilst 1208 is dark in tone. Note that 1228 is not eye clean but could be covered by a prong.
The Finewater sapphire is gorgeous but due to the depth, the almost 2 ct sapphire faces up like a 1 ct sapphire.

No 1228 is not intense, but I think he said 1223, which seems to be.

 

[Niel]

I also think that finewater one is quite nice, but I'm a bit concerned about it facing up really small. Her ring size is a 6.

Is it really that much smaller? I'm asking the group.
Sapphire is denser than diamond. And that stone faces up like a 1ct diamond. So I mean, yeah its a bit deep, but couldn't it be compared to a 1.5ct?

Just wondering.

Let me come back with photos of a 1ct cushion on a size 6... if I can find one.

 

[Niel]

This is a pretty close one, i know the ring is size 6, i dont know the hand model's size, though

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/yellow-diamond-ring-106ct-fancy-light-yellow-si1-three-stone-diamond-ring-gia-r892

 

[ElleK]

I also think that finewater one is quite nice, but I'm a bit concerned about it facing up really small. Her ring size is a 6.

Is it really that much smaller? I'm asking the group.
Sapphire is denser than diamond. And that stone faces up like a 1ct diamond. So I mean, yeah its a bit deep, but couldn't it be compared to a 1.5ct?

Just wondering.

Let me come back with photos of a 1ct cushion on a size 6... if I can find one.

A 1ct round diamond is 6.5mm. Sapphire is more dense than diamond, so will face up smaller to a degree. Gemstones are typically priced based on the carat weight, and often people have a hard time reconciling paying for a high carat weight and getting a small face up size.

 

[Niel]

I also think that finewater one is quite nice, but I'm a bit concerned about it facing up really small. Her ring size is a 6.

Is it really that much smaller? I'm asking the group.
Sapphire is denser than diamond. And that stone faces up like a 1ct diamond. So I mean, yeah its a bit deep, but couldn't it be compared to a 1.5ct?

Just wondering.

Let me come back with photos of a 1ct cushion on a size 6... if I can find one.

A 1ct round diamond is 6.5mm. Sapphire is more dense than diamond, so will face up smaller to a degree. Gemstones are typically priced based on the carat weight, and often people have a hard time reconciling paying for a high carat weight and getting a small face up size.

A 1 ct round is 6.5mm,yes. But a cushion though, and thats what I was talking about... The cushion from finewater

 

[minousbijoux]

So an 8x6mm cushion cut sapphire should weigh about 1.75 cts. This sapphire is not even 6x6, correct? This sapphire is almost as deep as it is wide (depth of 94%, whereas a more typical depth is less than 80%). So you can see that a typical 1.85 ct cushion cut sapphire would likely be bigger than 7x7mm. Does that help?

 

[Niel]

So an 8x6mm cushion cut sapphire should weigh about 1.75 cts. This sapphire is not even 6x6, correct? This sapphire is almost as deep as it is wide (depth of 94%, whereas a more typical depth is less than 80%). So you can see that a typical 1.85 ct cushion cut sapphire would likely be bigger than 7x7mm. Does that help?

Not quite. As a typical 1.75ct diamond cushion is about 7mm, if square...and I thought topically a sapphire was cut deeper than diamonds (though I dont know if that works the same for cushions sense cushions are cut deep) and that paired with the density surprises me that they would be the same mm

 

[Niel]

Op, ignore my thread jack.
I get its deep. It is deep. I guess I just wanted to know if that really was the end of the world... And just hot bad it was if you liked other things, particularly considering the smaller the stone the less you'll be paying for side stones that will get expensive.

I dont want to make it seem like you buy that stone. Really I dont care where you get it from, as long as its perfect for your SO


Ill stop threadjacking

 

[chrono]

No 1228 is not intense, but I think he said 1223, which seems to be.

Thanks for the correction. Whew! What a day it's been and my eyes got crossed when looking through Gemfix's inventory.

 

[chrono]

I also think that finewater one is quite nice, but I'm a bit concerned about it facing up really small. Her ring size is a 6.

Is it really that much smaller? I'm asking the group. Sapphire is denser than diamond. And that stone faces up like a 1ct diamond. So I mean, yeah its a bit deep, but couldn't it be compared to a 1.5ct?
Just wondering.

Let me come back with photos of a 1ct cushion on a size 6... if I can find one.

Yes, it is very deep and faces up smaller for a comparable sapphire. A 1.75 ct sapphire should measure close to 7 x 7 mm. If I am paying for a nearly 2 ct stone, then I'd want it to face up the correct size. The only way I'd accept a deep stone is if it is discounted accordingly. I think a 1.8 ct cushion diamond faces up close to 7.5 mm?

 

[Niel]

I also think that finewater one is quite nice, but I'm a bit concerned about it facing up really small. Her ring size is a 6.

Is it really that much smaller? I'm asking the group. Sapphire is denser than diamond. And that stone faces up like a 1ct diamond. So I mean, yeah its a bit deep, but couldn't it be compared to a 1.5ct?
Just wondering.

Let me come back with photos of a 1ct cushion on a size 6... if I can find one.

Yes, it is very deep and faces up smaller for a comparable sapphire. A 1.75 ct sapphire should measure close to 7 x 7 mm. If I am paying for a nearly 2 ct stone, then I'd want it to face up the correct size. The only way I'd accept a deep stone is if it is discounted accordingly. I think a 1.8 ct cushion diamond faces up close to 7.5 mm?

Not the ones ive seen.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-76ct-l-vs2-august-vintage-cushion-diamond.html

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.78-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-sku-388042


But yes I can see why, like diamonds, you dont want to pay for CTW you dont see. Question, are colored stones cut deep for weight like diamonds, or cut deep to get a desired color. Iow, if that stone wasn't so deep, would it look like that?

 

[chrono]

Like CS, diamond are cut deep to retain weight where possible because pricing is based on ct weight. I think the GOG stone is based on an antique chunky style where the crown is high, so it will face up smaller due to the extra depth. The JA cushion is retaining weight but beggars can't be too choosy if the price is right and the performance is good.

CS can be deep for various reasons - to retain weight and/or to get better colouration. There are sapphires with that lovely colouration that isn't as deep (in the high 65% to low 70% range).

 

[corundummy]

After seeing the comparably dimensioned yellow diamond in that ring I think the finewaters sapphire will be plenty big.

My main concern is how the depth of the stone will dictate the ring design. Will the extra couple mms of depth require a ring where the stone sits high off the finger?

 

[chrono]

Draw out 6 mm x 6 mm on a piece of paper, cut it out and tape it to your finger. This is how large/small it is when worn. Yes, the deeper the stone, the higher it has to sit off the finger.

 

[PieAreSquared]

After seeing the comparably dimensioned yellow diamond in that ring I think the finewaters sapphire will be plenty big.

My main concern is how the depth of the stone will dictate the ring design. Will the extra couple mms of depth require a ring where the stone sits high off the finger?

Yes. A stone that deep will sit high, you will still need a few more mm. of metal for the seat and the prongs. The higher a stone sits, the more it is exposed to knocks. For a diamond a very high setting can be dangerous, for a sapphire it can be fatal.