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Follow-up to "Combining Assets"

Alli--BIG HUGS. I can only imagine how difficult this is for you, and I think you're very brave (and self aware) to open yourself, and your relationship, up to the insights of relative strangers on PS.

Only you really know how YOU feel, and how you feel when you're with your husband. If you are confident that you can work this out together, then you can, and as your PS friend, I'll be here to support you (if you decide to continue posting) on whatever journey you decide to take from here.

Hugs and good thoughts to you, dear. I'm so sorry you're feeling so upset right now. I wish there was something I could do to make you feel better.
 
I'm sorry for your continued situation. Many here have given you excellent insight and advice.

But, really, simply put: marriage shouldn't be a "going Dutch" (i'm just using the dating term and mean no offense here) arrangement supported by accountings, whether they be of love "given" or dollars earned and spent by each party.
 
alli_esq said:
Thank you, everyone, for your comments.

I don't have the energy right now to respond to each of you right now--long day at work and another one on its way tomorrow...I hope to have time to respond tomorrow night...

but...I'll be honest--I don't know what I was expecting when I posted this today, but I am really wondering whether it was a good idea for me emotionally. I mean, I have posted several issues over the years and gotten great responses, and yes, some of them have been difficult to read...but this one...wow. I literally just spent about 20 minutes reading everyone's comments and bawling my eyes out. I guess I wasn't ready to hear what everyone had to say.

Thank you, still, for saying it. FWIW (not much), I do believe that my husband loves me and I want to believe that if I show him enough love, he will begin to trust me enough to finally dive in with both feet in this arena. I don't know that it will happen and I know that I cannot be doing it myself for it to work.
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Alli,
I absolutely know that if you and your dh want it to work you can make it work as long as you both put the energy and time into working things out. As I said before it really is not about the money and as soon as your husband realizes this and starts working towards the deeper issues he needs to resolve you will be on your way to a good marriage. He loves you and you love him and no one is perfect and we all have some sort of baggage. As soon as he realizes there is a problem the sooner you can work on making your marriage a more happy and healthy one. Big hugs!
 
alli_esq said:
I want to believe that if I show him enough love, he will begin to trust me enough to finally dive in with both feet in this arena. I don't know that it will happen and I know that I cannot be doing it myself for it to work.
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Huge hugs Alli. This is an upsetting situation.

For me, the quoted is what worries me most, maybe because it rings close to home. I had this attitude in my last relationship (if I prove I'm worthy, maybe he'll deign to treat me better/show me more respect). On one hand, I think it's a commendable attitude to want to work hard at a marriage. On the other, I know full well that it's futile if both parties aren't 100% on board. Your husbands "I've been hurt before, wah wah wah" stance really annoys me. Grow up already. We've all been hurt before, you weren't the one that screwed him over. He can't keep using this as the excuse for hurting you. He married you for gods sake. He really needs to let this go, it makes relationships very difficult.

This "you should be grateful" attitude is unacceptable and needs to be nipped in the bud. I hope your husband can work with you on finding a way to address these issues and that you get the respect you deserve here.
 
Well, forgive me for saying so, but I think it is ridiculous that you paid unnecessary tax for insurance, when all he had to do, and should have done, was update your status, and he lied about it, and then he said it was no big deal.

I'd be furious.

It's just a waste of money, a waste of your money, and a breech of your trust.

Many couples aren't so "50/50" in the first place iif this makes sense, and this is how he acts?

I'm sorry I don't know what to tell you, but I would make perfectly sure he understood that this kind of unnecessary fiasco will never happen again.

$190 a month is not a small amount of money in today's economy, let alone an amount of money to put in a pile in the street and burn.

Moreover, you're spouses, you're a couple. His irresponsibility didn't just just harm you, it harmed you as a couple. Again forgive me for being so bold, but he should wrap his mind around this fact.

BTW, thank you for the kind words about your support of the GLBT community.
 
Porridge said:
alli_esq said:
I want to believe that if I show him enough love, he will begin to trust me enough to finally dive in with both feet in this arena. I don't know that it will happen and I know that I cannot be doing it myself for it to work.
Click to expand...
Huge hugs Alli. This is an upsetting situation.

For me, the quoted is what worries me most, maybe because it rings close to home. I had this attitude in my last relationship (if I prove I'm worthy, maybe he'll deign to treat me better/show me more respect). On one hand, I think it's a commendable attitude to want to work hard at a marriage. On the other, I know full well that it's futile if both parties aren't 100% on board. Your husbands "I've been hurt before, wah wah wah" stance really annoys me. Grow up already. We've all been hurt before, you weren't the one that screwed him over. He can't keep using this as the excuse for hurting you. He married you for gods sake. He really needs to let this go, it makes relationships very difficult.

This "you should be grateful" attitude is unacceptable and needs to be nipped in the bud. I hope your husband can work with you on finding a way to address these issues and that you get the respect you deserve here.
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I totally agree. Alli, that paragraph made me so sad. "If I love him enough, he'll get better." No, honey. If he WANTS to, he'll get better. And it just doesn't seem like he wants to.

We're here for you, honey, and I desperately hope this gets better sooner rather than later.
 
Alli, you've gotten good advice here, I just wanted to pop in and respond since I remember your Combining Assets thread very well. I'm against combining assetts 100% after marriage, though since we got married we've combined several accounts and now our finances are set up similar to yours: joint checking account for all household expenses, individual checking accounts and one large joint savings account which the vast majority is funded by DH.

I agree that this issue is not a financial one. You guys seemed to have worked that one out. The $2K loss does suck, but the truth is that he's earning the majority of the money, so things like the house downpayment, travel, etc. are mostly going to be funded by him and amount to a lot more than $2K. What stinks is that it's money that COULD have been going to the principal of your loans, you know?

His inability to take responsibility for his mistake is puzzling. I'm just going to play devil's advocate, though. You said that when you found out, you were furious. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be furious, but I know how I am when I am furious. Sometimes I get mad and then confront DH in a very angry and confrontational tone, which is then met DH getting defensive because I've set the tone to be very tense. When I calm down and talk with him about why I'm upset, he's much more willing to talk it out. I'm wondering if maybe he was responding to your tone? That is, if you were really angry when you approached him...
 
I don't know Allie, I'm still trying to figure out why he told you he had made the changes at work, when he knew he didn't. And did he realize that your payments of $190 to him every month would have been unnecessary had he made the changes? My impression is you wrote a check to him every month. What did he do with the check? Did it go into the "separate account he has for his own security", or into your joint savings account? If he deposited that money into the joint account, or used the money to pay joint monthly expenses, then nobody really "owes" anyone anything. if he deposited the money into his separate account, he really should transfer 2000 bucks into your joint savings account. You struggled to make those payments to him, and he should acknowledge that by at least offering to reimburse you, since you had stressed out reimbursing him all those months. Sounds like just the offer from him would have made all the difference in the world to you, and he didn't step up to the plate.

I'm sorry Allie, but it sounds like you and dh have more work to do, both with trust issues and financial matters. Some pp's are saying it's not really about the money, but I kind of disagree with that. Because of the way you guys have chosen to handle your finances, money IS an issue in your marriage and is tied into trust issues and how much the other person cares for each other. so it's all kind of jumbled together. I truly hope you and dh can work this out, sounds like you guys have reached an impasse, in which case some counseling may help. Best wishes to you, I hope you can get all of this ironed out!
 
NEL makes very good points, especially the one about being furious when you spoke with him about this issue. I know that I say things I really shouldn't when I'm upset, and once I calm down DH and I usually do a lot of apologizing to each other, and THEN we can iron out the issue. If my husband came on here and posted some things I've said in the heat of an argument, he would surely get a lot of advice to run away from me, and fast.
 
NewEnglandLady said:
Alli, you've gotten good advice here, I just wanted to pop in and respond since I remember your Combining Assets thread very well. I'm against combining assetts 100% after marriage, though since we got married we've combined several accounts and now our finances are set up similar to yours: joint checking account for all household expenses, individual checking accounts and one large joint savings account which the vast majority is funded by DH.

I agree that this issue is not a financial one. You guys seemed to have worked that one out. The $2K loss does suck, but the truth is that he's earning the majority of the money, so things like the house downpayment, travel, etc. are mostly going to be funded by him and amount to a lot more than $2K. What stinks is that it's money that COULD have been going to the principal of your loans, you know?His inability to take responsibility for his mistake is puzzling. I'm just going to play devil's advocate, though. You said that when you found out, you were furious. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be furious, but I know how I am when I am furious. Sometimes I get mad and then confront DH in a very angry and confrontational tone, which is then met DH getting defensive because I've set the tone to be very tense. When I calm down and talk with him about why I'm upset, he's much more willing to talk it out. I'm wondering if maybe he was responding to your tone? That is, if you were really angry when you approached him...
Click to expand...

and therein lies the rub: so, yes, $2k is a big deal.

and i too would love to know where that $190 per month went if i were the OP.

MoZo
 
Alli, sorry you are feeling so awful right now. Everyone will have different gut reactions to your situation but remember they can't see the whole picture while you can. I admit that I had a similar reaction but I can also see where your husband's comments and intentions can be taken out of context. The whole "you're lucky to get health benefits at all" comment could just be his super defensive way of trying to show you that he's not a totally evil guy. To me, it just sounded like he was trying to get out of standing in front of the firing squad! Maybe he's uncomfortable with your anger and unused to talking things out - he just wants conflict to be OVER. It takes a lot of emotional maturity to meet conflict head on in a constructive way and takes practice! :naughty: Welcome to marriage!

Do you think maybe joining your assets will help in going forward? I would do so. It seems like the whole YOUR money and MY money thing is a recipe for trouble down the road, too. People in marriage share everything and maybe this is a good place to start. Also, maybe he doesn't get the enormity of the situation because he's still thinking it's YOUR money that was lost, not OUR money. I would start to blur or take down that barrier and make everything OURS not YOURS/MINE. You know? Huge hugs.

Sometimes I feel like women give too much power in the relationship to their husbands by trying to show they are equal partners - by breaking their backs to make sure they show they're contributing, splitting bills, paying for half of this and that...when YOU are more than enough! You're the prize! He should feel LUCKY to have married such a prize and hopefully you feel that way about him, too. Otherwise, it kind of trains the man to see the woman as a business partner/expendable rent sharing roommate and less like his wife, part of his own flesh. My husband would cut off his own arm if I needed it because he considers my body part of his and puts my needs above his own. Yours should do the same because it sure sounds like you would do it for him! Maybe this is a good opportunity for you both to change old thought patterns that aren't working. You two CAN change this!

YOU are enough and that you are married means you are an equal partner - everything you make, everything he makes - belongs to the BOTH of you. I don't care who's working at the time and who's not, who makes more or less. You bring a lot to the marriage and maybe the change in thinking should start with you - no more tit-for-tat philosophy! It's going to take some uphill work because you two have set the stage for an old pattern that doesn't quite work but it can be changed. And I daresay, you might be happier for it in the long run!
 
jaysonsmom said:
I'm sorry Alli, I'm going to be blunt. I cannot relate to any part of your post. In my mind, marriage means integrating body, mind, soul, and definitely finances. I have never written my husband a check for my share of anything. My debt is his debt, my gains are his gains, my spending money is his and vice versa. The fact that $190 a month is causing this rift in your relationship is not the main issue at all, I think you need some type of relationship counseling.
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I completely agree here. We are fully combined, debt, savings all of it.
 
movie zombie said:
NewEnglandLady said:
Alli, you've gotten good advice here, I just wanted to pop in and respond since I remember your Combining Assets thread very well. I'm against combining assetts 100% after marriage, though since we got married we've combined several accounts and now our finances are set up similar to yours: joint checking account for all household expenses, individual checking accounts and one large joint savings account which the vast majority is funded by DH.

I agree that this issue is not a financial one. You guys seemed to have worked that one out. The $2K loss does suck, but the truth is that he's earning the majority of the money, so things like the house downpayment, travel, etc. are mostly going to be funded by him and amount to a lot more than $2K. What stinks is that it's money that COULD have been going to the principal of your loans, you know?His inability to take responsibility for his mistake is puzzling. I'm just going to play devil's advocate, though. You said that when you found out, you were furious. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be furious, but I know how I am when I am furious. Sometimes I get mad and then confront DH in a very angry and confrontational tone, which is then met DH getting defensive because I've set the tone to be very tense. When I calm down and talk with him about why I'm upset, he's much more willing to talk it out. I'm wondering if maybe he was responding to your tone? That is, if you were really angry when you approached him...
Click to expand...

and therein lies the rub: so, yes, $2k is a big deal.

and i too would love to know where that $190 per month went if i were the OP.

MoZo
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It went to taxes.

As an example.

Gross Salary $10,000
Health Insurance Domestic Partner Taxable $750

401K $1,500
Health Insurance Nontaxable 0 (The OP said the Company pays 100%)

Taxable 10,750

The problem is that he did not change her status, so her health insurance was taxable, she pay $190 for taxes to him and he pay the $190 to the government by deduction in his paycheck.

I wonder if you can fix this when you report your yearly taxes.
 
gaby06 said:
movie zombie said:
and i too would love to know where that $190 per month went if i were the OP.

MoZo
Click to expand...

It went to taxes.

As an example.

Gross Salary $10,000
Health Insurance Domestic Partner Taxable $750

401K $1,500
Health Insurance Nontaxable 0 (The OP said the Company pays 100%)

Taxable 10,750

The problem is that he did not change her status, so her health insurance was taxable, she pay $190 for taxes to him and he pay the $190 to the government by deduction in his paycheck.

I wonder if you can fix this when you report your yearly taxes.
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That was my question too. I know there are some circumstances where taxes that are thought to be owed are withheld and when the corrected information is submitted, the money paid is credited to the amount paid (for total taxes) -- in other words, used as payment towards taxes actually owed or is added to the amount of the refund check.
 
alli_esq said:
Thank you, everyone, for your comments.

I don't have the energy right now to respond to each of you right now--long day at work and another one on its way tomorrow...I hope to have time to respond tomorrow night...

but...I'll be honest--I don't know what I was expecting when I posted this today, but I am really wondering whether it was a good idea for me emotionally. I mean, I have posted several issues over the years and gotten great responses, and yes, some of them have been difficult to read...but this one...wow. I literally just spent about 20 minutes reading everyone's comments and bawling my eyes out. I guess I wasn't ready to hear what everyone had to say.

Thank you, still, for saying it. FWIW (not much), I do believe that my husband loves me and I want to believe that if I show him enough love, he will begin to trust me enough to finally dive in with both feet in this arena. I don't know that it will happen and I know that I cannot be doing it myself for it to work.
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Just wanted to say---

I've followed your threads about this and while I really have 0 advice about the financial situation since I have 0 experience with it myself, I know you probably weren't expecting the responses you have received. Sometimes outsiders are able to see things a lot more clearly than the person on the inside is seeing. I could only imagine the pain you're feeling but I do believe, deep down you know whats best for you if your husband refuses to change his ways or go to therapy at some point. You can't always be the one to be so generous and compassionate towards someone who doesn't reciprocate, it'll never ever make that person 'change'. I think there are many different types of 'love', so I *do* think your husband loves you but I think he loves you in a completely different way and level than you love him. His love seems to be very dissociated and disconnected. I hate that you're saying "if you show him enough love".....don't you see that you ALREADY have done MORE than enough to show him that? This really just breaks my heart because you've done so much and you still feel like you need to do more to get him to trust you. In my opinion, I think this is something that is out of your hands now and no matter how much you do or how much love you show him it isn't going to change anything....he needs to WANT to change. I really do wish you the best and I hope everything works out in your favor and I'll keep you in my thoughts.
 
Just wanted to add that it seems like when couples get married both parties should feel like they are "gaining" something extraordinary - a partner, security, love and friendship. Let's face it - a woman is a huge huge asset in a marriage! Every man should walk into it going, "Gee, I am so getting the deal of a century! Lucky me!" Not, "Oh, I have to take on this big heavy burden and heck no, I'm not touching her loans, too." Student loans are not a disease, they're an investment in your future.

From the beginning, it sounds like this was set up to make your DH feel like he was "losing" out when getting married, at least financially - since he was "taking on" someone who earned less, did not have health benefits and school loans. You started as a "less than" when you are really the prize. I feel that this is a main issue. He should feel LUCKY to join forces with such a resourceful, generous and amazing spouse - he WINS here! And you graduated law school - those loans are not from shopping sprees, geez!

I suspect maybe you let him and even trained him to see you in this light - even though his family background shaped his perceptions about personal finances in general. If you tell a man, "It's not fair for you to have to take on this loan for me and I need to scrape by to contribute my share. I apologize for not earning my fair share, which is my worth." He will start to see you as less than. You're telling him and training him to see that YOU are not enough that your presence and existence are tied to pennies. The truth is, your worth and what you bring to the marriage are TOO great, too profound and too precious to be added up on a calculator. Can you put a dollar value on something that is priceless? I don't think so. There is NO ONE on this earth like you - tell him to scour the face of the Earth from the top of the highest mountain to the bottom of the sea. You are unique and precious. Isn't your love and devotion enough? Is his? What happened to "for better or for worse?" That doesn't just mean avoiding divorce, it means walking the walk. Every day.

I feel like men also function better when they are caretakers. It is wonderful for the woman to be his financial partner but he should not see it as such - it is more of a "bonus." Of course, if there are hard times - women can also carry the household with no problem. But if you go into it with the expectation that your right to be a valued partner is in any way financial, it creates many problems and damages inherent respect for that person. Besides, ask him what happens if he gets hit by a car and is unable to work. Are you going to deposit him on a street corner so he can panhandle his "fair share?" Because by God, he better contribute since you will be earning more and you're not TOUCHING his loans or hospital bills because those are HIS! See how ridiculous this can get? And when you have kids, is he going to reimburse you for half the medical bills and for the pain & suffering? I mean, really. You deserve more than to be treated this way and I suspect it starts with you. You have to BELIEVE that first for him to follow suit.
 
Alli -- Big Hugs

Congratulations on the great progress you both have made so far. Finances are a tough subject but it sounds like you're getting into a system that works for your relationship.

As was mentioned above, people relate differently when they are angry. If you approached him angry, he may have been acting as a defense (completely natural). I don't think what he said (since we don't know the whole situation and really can't know the context/toness since we weren't there) is anything worth getting TOO upset about. Who hasn't said stuff that they didn't mean or that came out as something entirely different than what they were trying to say? Especially when upset/angry/defensive...
It is also possible that he reacted how he did because he realized how he let you down and didn't want to have to face that.

Keep working together to become a team. You can, to an extent, be kind/caring/loving and show him that you aren't like his parents and help him to open up BUT he needs to start working with you too. (if you like country music listen to Diamond Rio "Meet in the Middle")

As for the $2,000 --- I'd forget about it. If you bring it up, all you're doing is re-enforcing the idea that it is Your money & His money and Your debt and His debt. It will probably also damage the view that you are NOT his parents. $2,000 isn't worth it (I understand just how much $200/month can hurt when you're barely scraping by and the stress it caused you for that time and that it would have been a huge help in paying other stuff).


My suggestion --
Talk to your tax person to find out what can be done (if anything -- they might even have some info about what a company can/can't correct that you may be able to bring to his HR person)

Get your name and status updated on his insurance. If it is something he can log into at home and change, then do it together. If he needs to speak to HR in person, set up a time and go together. DON'T do it together because you can't trust him to do it -- do it together because this is an important thing in your life together and you should BOTH be involved in the decisions. (when FI goes into his open enrollment stuff there are different plans to choose, life insurance amounts, and more that we talk about together and weigh the possibilities)


Another quick thought -- As I was typing that out, I remembered that all of FI's information with his company is online. He's gone in to change stuff before, thought it was all updated and done, and then months (or even a couple of years) later found the old (incorrect) information still there because there were multiple locations it needed to be change in and he didn't know about them.


Good luck! You're doing great making progress to become a team. Be patient and do everything you can to enforce the idea in his mind (and yours) that you are a TEAM. You're going to face many more things in the future that may or may not have happened if one of you had only _____ . That's life. It might upset you, you might fight about it, but you are still a TEAM and you both know that mistakes happen (including poor choices of words).
 
All the good advice has been given already.

So have a hug instead.

Do you want this relationship to continue?

Does it fulfill your emotional needs?

I believe that actions speak louder than words: he can say he loves you till he's blue in the face, but it doesn't mean a jot unless his actions make you feel loved.

I am very sorry for your troubles.

As many have said before, this is not how a person who loves you should treat you.

I would draw a line in the sand: this issue will not go away, what is he going to do about it?

Coz it is HIS problem.
 
Ali--I have to be blunt here--I'm married for 28 years now and IMO you two are NEVER going to make it with the financial attitudes of yours/mine that you and he have. For us marriage was a complete partnership, a joining together of ALL our resources, not knitpicking and pro rating and breaking down and itemizing. To be quite truthful a relationship like that would hold no appeal for me. It's either all or nothing.

My head would explode
 
Sorry to be blunt, but you're married...he lied. Period. He owes you the money. You SHOULD accept it. Since HE is the one who wants everything tit for tat down to the penny, then he should pay up. As to being "grateful" for insurance coverage, yeah maybe when you were just living together, but insurance coverage is what married people provide for each other when it's available. It's not some sort of gift you should be groveling for. :roll:

I hope you have something in writing that should there ever be a dissolution to your marriage, you both split the savings 50/50. I dearly hope it never comes to that, but it's obvious he is NOT the sort of person who will be reasonable or fair in any property settlement.
 
admittedly, we're all coming at this with our own baggage and relationship histories. you say you love him. you say he loves you. we don't see it because we're not you. do you feel loved? can you accept him as he is? is it ok to lie in a relationship? only you can decide for yourself. all we see are the threads and posts that to us have a problematic theme going on. we are in fact outsiders looking in....but we're only looking in based on what you've posted.

an ex-boyfriend once told me: never invest more in a relationship than the other person. it was a lesson he had learned in his past. it is another way of saying it takes two to make it work. and another thing i try to remember daily that i read years ago: before you try and change someone else, remember how hard it is to change yourself.

responses including mine have ranged from indignant to outraged. please don't take it personal.....its all out of concern for you.

MoZo

ps i do hope you go to counseling for yourself. it might be better than posting here and running into our well-meaning but definitely opinionated responses.
 
Alli, I'm so sorry about how you're feeling reading the responses in this thread. Not for anything would I, or anyone else on here I'm sure, want to hurt you unnecessarily. But I think it is important that you hear what everyone is saying. Money is such a huge bone of dissension in any relationship, and unless you guys can reach an agreement now, and figure out a way for your disparate views on finances to mesh, you're going to keep refighting the same issues over and over again through the years. We want to help, but unfortunately, I think the only way, at this point, that we can help is to tell you how your situation appears to us, from our outside perspective. And we want the best for you, and I don't think the best is you trying to fix what may not be fixable (his attitudes towards financial trust, when it comes to his WIFE), and battling these trust issues.
 
alli_esq said:
Hi, dragonfly,

I have spoken with DH about my feelings on the matter (I felt bad enough with the length of my post so I didn't get into that in my OP)...essentially, where we hit an impasse is:

-- I feel I cannot trust him to take care of things, especially things that ONLY affect ME and do NOT affect HIM. I am fearful about our future--that he sees me being on his insurance plan as being a "favor" to me, even though it costs him nothing (literally, nothing).

-- He feels that I am a spoiled brat who takes having health insurance for granted (true, I am one of the fortunate Americans who has always had SOME form of health coverage, at times better than others) and that he feels that by working at this particular company, he is making less actual cash in his salary because he receives other, alternative benefits, including health insurance for his domestic partner/spouse.

Like I said, it's an impasse. I think we both understand where the other stands, but we just simply do not agree. It is very painful to me that I feel that he does not take care of me...this isn't necessarily a financial thing--it's that he couldn't take the 3 minutes it would have taken to MAKE SURE my designation was correct so that while I wasn't working, I would not have to STRUGGLE to make these payments. He just didn't care enough about me, in my mind, to do this tiny little thing that would have saved me a lot of grief (forget about the money itself--having that extra $190 to pay each month caused me significant stress when I was only living on unemployment).

It's not about the money. It's really not. $2,000 in the end is not a FORTUNE (it's not NOTHING either) and I'd happily pay that amount if it were necessary (in fact, when I thought it WAS necessary, I never once complained about it, never said a peep--because I DID feel lucky to have health insurance so cheaply). It just upsets me that even in retrospect, he doesn't seem to care how hard it was for me to scrape that money together, and he feels in no way responsible to help me pay for it, even though in my mind, it is 100% his fault that I've owed it.
Click to expand...

Alli -- I haven't had the chance to read the whole thread lately, but I wanted to reply to this post. I'd feel very hurt if this happened to me, and I hope that your husband begins to fully understand somehow HOW this is affecting you. It doesn't seem fair. I'll hopefully finish reading the rest of the thread tonight and reply again later.
 
Alli, I remember responding to your earlier post and saying I understand the separate account thing because my DH and I are still operating that way (mostly). Like you, I have a fair chunk of law school loans, while my DH paid off his student loans quite awhile ago, and I REALLY don't feel that he's responsible for that debt in any way (though in my case, he would willingly take over the payments if I was unable to do so). So even though other people are saying that keeping things relatively separate is not the "right" way to do things once you're married, you're still not alone.

Like everyone else, I am concerned for you, though. I wonder if part of the reason the responses hit you so hard is that you know something is wrong but you don't know how to fix it, or even start the process of fixing it. I don't either. So many people have given advice, I really don't know how much I can add. I will say, though, that I'm a little shocked that your husband sees providing health insurance for his family as a "favor" and was "hurt" that you don't want to have kids until you get the issues in your relationship worked out...to me, that shows that he doesn't understand ANYTHING you've been saying to him for all these months.

Hugs, honey. I'm wishing you all the best.
 
Alli, I am so sorry you are going through this. I only wanted to make one comment. You said that he had his own savings account
so he would feel comfortable. My personal opinion is that if a man doesn't want to share everything he has with you, he is not
fully committed to you. That is what marriage is. A committment, a team mentality. It's you and me against the world. You deserve
someone who is willing to sacrifice and share all with you, not just a portion.

I hope you are able to work it out. It is my experience that marriage works when both people are willing to put themselves last and
the other person first. If only one is willing to do that, it is a hard road. I realize that that may sound like a fairy tale to a lot
of folks. I really really hope you are able to work it out.
 
alli_esq said:
Thank you, everyone, for your comments.

I don't have the energy right now to respond to each of you right now--long day at work and another one on its way tomorrow...I hope to have time to respond tomorrow night...

but...I'll be honest--I don't know what I was expecting when I posted this today, but I am really wondering whether it was a good idea for me emotionally. I mean, I have posted several issues over the years and gotten great responses, and yes, some of them have been difficult to read...but this one...wow. I literally just spent about 20 minutes reading everyone's comments and bawling my eyes out. I guess I wasn't ready to hear what everyone had to say.

Thank you, still, for saying it. FWIW (not much), I do believe that my husband loves me and I want to believe that if I show him enough love, he will begin to trust me enough to finally dive in with both feet in this arena. I don't know that it will happen and I know that I cannot be doing it myself for it to work.
Click to expand...


I understand where you are coming from (I think). One thing that bothers me is all the people who immediately jump up that he deliberately lied to you - and thus have zero compassion. I don't necessarily think that is true. Some people forget, some are outright absent minded, and most of us tell "white lies" all the time. To give him the benefit of the doubt - I'd propose that he may have told you a white lie and intended to change it - or maybe he did not lie as he thought that he had - and it had not processed for some reason (ranging from his making a mistake to other processing issues).

Now how well your relationship will work out in the long run (and there are things you have written that do bother me) - I can't predict. But if this is the only issue - then drop it; and give him a chance to change his status. If he does not change it again - then that's a different (and indicative to me of a bigger) issue.

I disagree with the people who say that they don't understand how you can have a relationship by keeping track of the money (and splitting it by formulas). Some people work that way - and work best that way. So that is something that is between the two of you.

Hang in there.

Perry

ps: if there should be other significant issues - you of course do need to evaluate the situation carefully. One thing I've always been amazed at is how many people fight over very minor things (how the tube of toothpaste is squeezed - my answer: by two tubes of toothpaste; how the toilet paper is mounted - over/under.... my answer: mount a second toilet paper holder). A key question to always ask: Is this issue going to matter in 1, 5, and 10 years.... (then decide if its an issue worth pursuing).
 
I have been working though this response throughout the day in the hopes that I will be able to respond to everyone individually, because I honestly want you all to know how grateful I am for each of your thoughtful replies. I apologize for the redundancy of what I am saying below, but it was hard to respond to everyone who has been responding to me throughout the last 24 hours without repeating some stuff...

thanks to all of you who replied again--I appreciate it so much, even if it hurts.

-------------------
thing2: I remember your comment from my first post, and as obvious as it must have seemed to you--what you said really hit home for me. You were and are right that it is not okay for him to continue to use something that happened to him more than a decade ago against me. However, I'd like to make something clear that I don't think I have before: DH doesn't actually talk about that event being the reason that he doesn't want to support me or had trouble combining finances with me. I just happen to know, since I have to say I know him pretty darn well, that the financial events that happened to him when he was in and then graduated from college really stuck with him in a very negative way. He has told me over time how his parents have abandoned him and how they have really hurt him by never helping him when he needed it. He knows that my parents have always been there for me when I have needed help and he has verbalized his fear that if we were to break up, I would have the support of my family whereas he would be left to his own devices.

I have always understood that fear, which is why I have tried so hard to show him that I 1) am not leaving and 2) I am definitely not in this relationship for the money (not that he has much--neither of us do). I want him to feel secure in the fact that my career is incredibly important to me and I always intend to work--and that I did not get into this relationship to mooch off him in any way. To him, because I have never suffered (whereas he was almost homeless at one point) I don't understand what it is to be "without," and I have struggled to show him that I don't HAVE to have suffered to understand his concerns.

swimmer: Thanks for sharing your experience. My husband hasn't exactly abandoned me yet--but I am taking his inaction on this front as an indication that he is capable of financial abandonment. Maybe I am conflating the issues, but I don't think I am and I would rather never have children than bring children into a relationship where I can't be sure my husband won't feel any responsibility to their mother.

DH and I are not religious and have no spiritual leader...I think his biggest problem with therapy is that he is an intensely private person and doesn't like ANYone to know details of his life. He doesn't like talking about himself with virtually anyone, much less a stranger. However, I think people here would be happy to know that I brought up the idea of going to a therapist/mediator last night and he didn't dismiss me outright as he has in the past (didn't agree to it either)...but this week is really crazy for him at work so I am hoping to discuss it more in depth with him on Thursday evening.

gaby: I understand, it's not about him "owing" me money, though. Like I said, I would never accept that money from him--but to me, if I had learned that I made a mistake that cost him so much money, I wouldn't pass go, I wouldn't collect $200, I would write a check to him for the amount I cost him. I wouldn't even THINK of doing anything else. I would make it right as quickly and painlessly as possible. If he had helped me pay for the tax this whole year, I wouldn't even CONSIDER him having to "owe" or offer to pay the difference, but because I have always paid for that tax out of my own pocket and he has happily accepted that money from me, even when times were really financially difficult for me, it angers me that he feels no responsibility toward me even though this was his error. But, again--I don't feel that he actually owes me any money; just that he should have offered to try and bring me back to the financial place I would have been if he hadn't made this error--merely as a sign of good faith.

also, you are correct in your analysis--I have a question in to my accountant about this, but I am 99% sure I won't be able to fix it with my taxes, since it's a question of whether or not DH's employer considers the health benefit part of his income--which they did for this prior year. If there is a way to fix it through his employer, I will find it (I have been making calls), but if not, whatever, it's my loss.

mz: thank you for your support. I feel very good about the fact that I was able (with the help of the wonderful advice I received on PS) to come up with a budget about which both DH and I feel meet our goals. I still feel that it is a very fair system and if there is any doubt here--I am quite satisfied with it.

I think there might be another misconception here--that DH flat out lied to me about changing my status to "spouse" on his insurance plan. He didn't lie to me, per se--he is totally irresponsible, but he's not dishonest. He is far from detail-oriented, and although I thought I made it clear to him that he needed to BOTH change his marital status for his W-2 as WELL as change my designation to "spouse" on his health insurance, he misunderstood and thought he did change both. He works in a very high-paced, very stressful work environment and he is generally forgetful in pretty much every aspect of his life, so I do believe him that he just neglected to change both or maybe at the time believed that changing one would automatically change the other--he doesn't remember and he said if he had realized it, he would have done what needed to get done...but it doesn't really surprise either of us that he didn't.

It doesn't make it in any way okay, of course, but it changes the character of his inaction from one of dishonesty to neglect. Neither is okay with me. I accept who he is and this does not make me love him less--but it does hurt and I will not have a child with someone as neglectful or as incapable of making even the tiniest bit of effort to do something that would help me.

I don't see that I have invested more into this relationship than he has. Maybe people here would say that I'm crazy for feeling that way, but I do. I have gotten a lot from my husband over the years--I get a lot from him pretty much every day, really. Having him in my life has improved the quality of my life significantly. It has also made things a lot more complicated, but that is a tradeoff I am happy to make. I like solving problems, I like keeping very tight track of my finances--so those things are not a burden to me. I don't know that I'm trying to change him, per se...I want him simply to open his mind to a new way of thinking about our partnership, to something that will benefit us both in the long run.

I have not been in counseling for a while now, but I am okay with that (even if some people on here aren't, haha!) I also do not regret posting this on here, for better or for worse. I am interested to hear other people's perspectives on an issue that is so much more gray than black and white to me.

perry: I don't think you are being harsh at all. I think your perspective is not far off of what my husband's is...except that maybe I haven't been clear here--I know $2,000 in the long run is not ultimately that important (even though it is had has been important to me over the course of the last year), and like I said, I wouldn't accept the money from me if he had offered it. The point here is that he did not take responsibility for something very small that would have made my life much much easier. He is certainly WILLING to change his status to "married" (he has done so for his W-2, and, like I said, he thought that he changed it for the health insurance as well)--it's not like he's ashamed to admit he's married or something--he just was lazy and didn't make sure it was done correctly. You are absolutely right that I did not marry him for money (haha, if you knew how little we each made, you'd die laughing at even imagining that could be true) and I do not believe the issue I have here is that this indiscretion of his cost me money--the issue is that I cannot trust him to look out for me.

FL Steph: I didn't ask him for the money--I simply hoped that he would offer (again, I wouldn't have accepted it from him if he had offered--I just wanted to see that he was actually sorry for his negligence and I know that to him, money talks...it certainly did in this case). Also, to be clear, until we began this new budget in September, yes, we actually did split every single expense, including going out for hamburgers. I am happy to say that based on our new budget which we both find more agreeable, that's not necessary anymore.

I also don't know if being generous will solve anything either, but that is the only way I know. It is what I was taught. And withholding is what he was taught. I am trying to re-teach him that having a life with someone and treating that person as your partner is so much more fulfilling than withholding from them, and in some ways I believe he agrees (see the BGD ring that is on its way for our anniversary for me)...but in some important ways, like the health insurance tax issue, we still diverge. I know it is not my "job" as his wife to teach him, and I know that he may never change, but I do love him and I do want our relationship to improve and I will do my best to make both of our lives better. If I can't, I can't and I accept I'm not magical...but maybe something will stick.

missy and heraanderson: thank you for your advice. I'm working on him about counseling...

kama: It was your comment, more than all the others, that made me cry yesterday...I don't mean that to say it's not true or you shouldn't have said it...it just really hurt to read it. I don't know how true it is that he doesn't care about me, but it is absolutely the way this set of events has made me feel. I do see exactly what all of you are saying--I wouldn't have posted if I didn't. There are a lot of good things in my relationship, but this fundamental disagreement is very very very troubling to me. I know there is something wrong here. I don't know if it can be resolved. I hope that it can. If anything, I have a hard time believing that someone who is as hurt as DH is (even after all these years and even though it wasn't my fault) can't eventually get over that hurt enough to be a generous, loving person in a relationship. He's obviously not there yet, but I don't know that he won't ever get there.

iota: I think you have hit DH's perspective exactly on the nose. He thinks that my wishing he woud have offered to reimburse me is me "charging" him (again, I must stress--I wouldn't have taken the money, I don't CARE about the money--I just wanted him to make the EFFORT to make it right). I have eaten the money, that part is fine...it worries me, however, because I ask him to do so very, very little in our relationship and, without fail, he never does what I ask him without my having to badger him repeatedly. This is not an isolated incident...that is why I am fearful to reproduce with him--not because he made one little mistake, but because I cannot count on him to do anything that needs to be done. Thanks for your comment--I was truthfully a bit relieved to see someone who understands where I know DH is coming from.

Freke: thanks for your comment.

B.E.G.: I don't think anyone here is trying to hurt me (I hope not at least!) I am most certainly listening to what everyone here is saying. And hearing your perspectives is what I came here to hear--so thank you. I don't see what I'm doing as trying to "fix" him--I see it as bettering our relationship and hoping that he will eventually want to do for me what I would always have done for him.

neatfreak: I don't know what to say, other than I agree with you. In the interest of full disclosure (hell, I have disclosed this much so far) I did not get laid off from my other job--I had a major fight with my old boss and got fired (it was a long time in the making). Although DH was emotionally supportive of my leaving what was an incredibly abusive work environment, he felt that in some way I let us both down by allowing my temper to get the better of me at my job and not putting our financial stability first. I felt guilty for getting canned (I still do) and it was me who insisted that I continue to pay for 50% of everything and for 100% of my individual expenses (educational loans, health insurance tax). I never thought I would be out of work as long as I was (again, I did work part-time for several months in there, but it was a financially difficult time), but I wanted to prove to DH (and to myself) that I am capable of supporting myself and taking responsibility for my actions leading up to my termination. I thought that holding up my literal "half" would have gained me some credit in his eyes on this front, but it appears not to have gotten me very far. If anything, I seemed to have train DH to believe that I think it is fair to split everything 50-50...that was a big mistake on my part.

Thank you for the hugs and support.

Haven: I also remember your post in the last thread and it was hugely helpful to me. You are really sweet to be so supportive, especially when you have such a different arrangement with your husband and I know you can't really relate to mine--I appreciate your not getting on a high horse about it, which I imagine would be easy, given how well your arrangement works for you.

Your message here was also very hard to read--when I see "he doesn't care about her," obviously that really hits a nerve. That is my greatest fear. Like I said to kama, I don't know if it's true or not, but he's certainly making me feel that it is the case. No matter how I explain it to him, he doesn't see how this set of circumstances demonstrates to me that he doesn't care about me. He insists that isn't true, but I keep telling him--his ACTIONS (or inactions) speak for themselves. He and I just simply do not agree about the larger issue here and it was hugely irresponsible of me not to make sure we were on the same page before we got married. The way we had worked our finances throughout our relationship up to that point (we had been together since August 2005, have lived together since July 2007--so it's not like we're new to this relationship) had always seemed to be fine before...but once I realized I was finally making enough money to start saving and we were getting nowhere with the goals we had in mind for ourselves, I realized that our old method wasn't working. He feels like this came out of nowhere because I had always seemed fine with our prior arrangement.

I understand that different couples handle money differently and it is great that you have the method that works for you. As I keep repeating, it was a huge mistake for me not to have confirmed with DH, before we got married, how we would conduct our finances in the context of our marriage, and in retrospect, I realize I should have known that he would treat things this way based on how his family has treated him. Although I consider myself rather savvy and thoughtful in a lot of ways (ha, that sounds funny now), I was being so naive to think he would change his behavior so easily.

With regard to the way that I approached this--to an extent, you are on point: I have a tendency to go off the deep end very quickly. However, DH is having a very very stressful time at work and I was trying not to be nasty. I sent him an email during the day while we were both at work about the details of what had happened when I found out about it. Right off the bat, he told me how terrible he felt and what an idiot he felt like for doing this, what a waste it was, etc. I told him that what was done was done and that I just wanted to move on...that we should learn from this experience so that we should both be more conscious going forward. But then, where I lost him was about an hour later, was when I sent him an email I asked him if he thought it was fair that I should have to pay 100% of the taxes for the next two months (since even if/when he changes me to "spouse" for this coming year, it won't take effect until January 2011 and I would still owe for November and December 2010)...he asked what I was getting at...and I just said I wanted him to tell me what he thought was fair. He got angry at me at that point because he thought I was being unnecessarily cryptic and he was stressed out and at work--that is when he lashed out and came back at me with the whole "you wouldn't even have health insurance without me," bit.

It was wrong for me to bring it up to him at work and in the way I did. It definitely didn't help things and I have apologized for doing that. I will try not to bring up potentially contentious issues like this over email during the workday again. However, even as we have discussed it more calmly and in person since those emails, he maintains that he doesn't think he should be responsible for any part of the taxes because I wouldn't even have this "problem" if it weren't for the fact that his job provides me with health insurance. I have explained again and again that I didn't think he was "responsible" for paying it back to me--but that I wanted to know that he was really SORRY for what he did, and that his offeringto pay it back would show to me that he was actually sorry. This is the impasse.

You are so very sweet to be so supportive--it means more to me than I can really express. I know we don't really know one another, but I take your advice and your words very seriously. Thanks, Haven.

AGSHF: Agreed, on all counts.

Porridge: It is so hard to describe my feelings about all this and I understand what you're saying...but the truth is, if DH does not come around to thinking about our relationship and our finances the way I do, I will not feel that I have failed. I just want to give it my very best shot--after all, we haven't even been married a year and he feels as if I sprung this whole new "combining of finances" thing on him because it never seemed important to me before we were married. Thank you for your support.

Imdanny: First of all, I think it is an abomination that same-sex couples in the US do not get the same exact recognition that married opposite-sex couples do. If you or anyone you care about are part of the LGBTQ community, I know you know as much as I do how disgusting our nation's policies are. Secondly, with regard to my issue, I agree with you that it was just a waste and for people who are typically so conservative about our spending (not our politics, of course :Up_to_something: ), it is infuriating that we wasted this money on something so unnecessary.

princesss: well, I didn't say that if I love him enough, he'll get better...that's paraphrasing my words and losing a bit in the translation (I don't mean that in a defensive way, I just mean that what you said isn't what I said)...I intend to continue showing him love and demonstrating to him that I can be trusted--it does NOT mean that if he does not come around to believing it that I somehow failed. It simply means that I will continue to work at my marriage the best and only way I can for as long as I can. I took my vows very seriously. I guess we'll see how seriously he took them.

NEL: very happy to see you here in this thread. Your advice was HUGELY helpful to me in my prior thread, so I wanted to have another chance to thank you for that. I have to say, our current budget is working out really well and I'm so happy I reached out for help on PS this summer because I am not sure I would have been able to figure all of that out without some advice from folks like you. I explained in my response to Haven how I dealt with it right off the bat, and like I said, I know I did not handle it properly. But, since then, we have spoken calmly about this and in doing so, that is where I discovered our impasse. He understands how I feel and if I want him to transfer the money to me, he will, even though he does not think it is right--but I don't want him to do that. (As I know I've repeated a thousand times here already) It's not about him "paying me" the money back. I just wish he saw that this is indicative of the larger problem that I don't feel that he is interested in doing anything that might help or benefit only me.

junebug: I think I answered that somewhere in this gigantic post somewhere (ha, I'm losing track at this point)...my issue is not that he lied (because I honestly believe he was just neglectful, not deceitful--I believe he thought he did it even though all he did was change his status for his W-2). As far as where the money went--I was simplifying it by saying that I wrote him a check. I didn't actually write him a physical check--before our new budgeting system, I had a list of ALL of our joint expenditures (from rent to the cable bill to Tuesday night's groceries) and I credited his side of the account an additional $190 so that when I settled up once or twice a month, I would be ultimately paying him $190. So it's not like he took the $190 and put it in his pocket, but he did put whatever he had leftover in his account at the end of the month in his own personal savings...so I guess you could say that extra $190 is in his savings. Now, with our new system, the way it works is that I contribute an extra $190 to our joint expenses every month than he does...so I guess you could say that the $190 is still going into his savings account.

Bliss: well, I think I expected to get a lot more responses like yours than the ones I actually got, haha. I do think that DH's whole "you should be grateful" shpiel comes from a place of defensiveness. He absolutely, definitely, 100% wants to be done with this whole situation--that's what he told me last night when I told him I didn't feel settled about this disagreement. I told him that I was really concerned about the state of our relationship and that I wanted to get past this together...and that brushing this fundamental disagreement under the rug is not the appropriate answer.

Suffice it to say that joining our finances together completely is not an option for us. I actually like how we have things now--I think it is very equitable, I feel that I am really contributing but I also think it is only fair that he should continue to be able to save more than I do individually, since he came into the marriage with higher earnings and less debt.

I agree that he should feel lucky to have me, and this may sound stupid, given everything else I've said here, but I do think he feels lucky to have me. However, he and I have wildly different feelings about educational debt (which I may or may not have posted in my last thread)--while I feel it is a necessary evil and I don't have resentment about having the debt, he thinks higher education basically destroyed his 20s. I made the decision to go to law school and to accumulate my debt (I was so lucky--my parents paid for my college education) before I met DH (I was in law school when I met him) and so he truly had nothing to do with my decision to take out loans, etc. Also, when you hear the gigantic number that I owe, it seems so overwhelming ($140,000 anyone?) and insurmountable and he wants no part of it. Now, if I were at a big firm, making hundreds of thousands of dollars each year, and he was financially benefiting from that career choice, I could see why it would be fair to have him contribute toward the debt. However, I chose to go into a field where my earnings potential is probably around the same as it would have been had I never gotten my J.D.--also not his choice. I am much happier in my chosen profession than I likely would have been if I hadn't gone to law school, but it doesn't financially benefit DH that I went. We've had this conversation ad nauseum and I feel rather certain he won't be changing his mind on that topic. That doesn't, however, mean that he doesn't think he's lucky to have me in his life. But an "equal partnership" to him = "equal participation" = "at-least-almost-equal financial contributions." It's overly simplistic, I know, and I know that is part of the problem.

All in all, I don't mind being solely responsible for my law school loans. I am thankful for my law school loans, in fact--they enabled me to work in a profession I really enjoy. I do understand his feeling about my loans even though I feel differently about them. I have always framed my school loans as somewhat of a badge of honor (since it is the first debt I have ever accumulated at all and it got me something I wanted so badly for so many years), rather than an albatross, but that is not how he will ever see them--it's just not his way.

And, maybe many men do function well as caretakers, but my husband is not among those kinds of men. He barely takes care of himself (silly things mainly, like doesn't even notice he needs a hair cut until I tell him to go, forgets his keys and credit cards virtually everywhere, things like that) and honestly doesn't think about most of the things that would make my life easier in general. He's just not thoughtful that way. He does do things that make me smile or make me happy, but taking care of me is not really one of them. Luckily I'm extremely self-sufficient in lots of ways, so I don't really need him for most of those small things...but who knows if I ever will. I'm learning that I might not be able to count on him (I haven't been able to so far). That's why I agree that there is some serious problem here.

It may not seem it based on what I've said here, but I am very proud of myself and I DO believe that both DH and I add a lot to each others' lives. I tell him all the time how much he means to me--and he tells me too. Again, it's just words and I have to see what his actions say, but I don't believe that he thinks I have no value. He just hasn't gotten past the money thing.

rhbgirl: I am glad you are in situation where you feel comfortable.

Autumnovember: I'm not sure it's so cut and dry as to say that my husband doesn't reciprocate my love or my compassion. Money is the problem, and yeah, it might be an extension of other areas, but for the most part, obviously I get something out of this relationship or I never would have remained it as long as I have or married the guy. I don't think it's important that I go on to extoll his virtues now that I've said what I've said about him so far, but suffice it to say, he is extremely important to me and has some pretty awesome, pretty rare qualities that I find appealing. No relationship is all good or all bad (well, no relationship that is real anyway).

I don't believe I should have to do more to get him to trust me. But the reality is, for whatever the reason, he clearly has doubts about my commitment toward him and I would like to have that change. I don't know that my continuing to show him will encourage that change or not, but I figure it can't hurt. Plus, it comes naturally to me anyway, since I really actually do love him and I was taught to be generous (financially and emotionally) with people I love.

Thanks for your well wishes.

TooPatient: thanks for the positive words. I so appreciate your saying that you believe we can make it as a team, because in the back of my mind, I really really do believe we can get there if he commits to it.

As far as changing the name, etc.--I have done all I can do; DH needs to do the rest. There is a very technical system at his job that actually requires his physical presence alone and he needs to do it while he's in his office. My being there means nothing, though we do talk about the actual insurance plans, etc. before he signs up for things...

Thanks again for your positive message.

rosetta: thank you for the e-hug--it's appreciated. I do want my relationship to continue, but I want it to improve. I have to be honest--my relationship with DH has improved every year since I've met him...we've taken big steps together and I believe we have improved each others' lives significantly. That's why I believe that it is POSSIBLE that this can change too. I believe we both have to work at it--one of us trying to fix a problem in the relationship isn't enough. But I do understand your point, and I appreciate your making it.

AmberSt.Clare: I am happy for you that you are in an arrangement that works for you and that your sense of partnership suits you so well. I believe I am closer now to an arrangement that suits my relationship in the best way possible for us--but it will take considerable work on both of our parts to get there. Luckily both DH and I are hard workers and do not have easily combustible heads ;)

argylemarionette: I agree that health insurance is not a gift. This is one of the larger issues I see here. I don't know if having a few days to think about it will turn DH's head around or if he will at some point be open to counseling so that we can talk about it...but I suppose time will tell. The interesting (ironic?) thing about all this is that I am a matrimonial attorney. The funniest thing is that I have NEVER seen a couple that handles finances the way we do and I have seen some SCREWED UP relationships.

And yes, I do know the financial ramifications of what we are doing--in case you have any joint checking or savings accounts, just so you know, each party has equal right to the whole of the account. So, just by virtue of the account being a savings account, we each have equal right to it. Thanks for your suggestion.

zoebartlett: Yes, I do feel very hurt...thanks for your empathy.

octavia: I'm glad someone here understands our loan situation--makes me feel a little less alone! As far as me being upset by the responses--well, it's part because I know there is a really huge problem in my relationship that is at least partially out of my hands...part of it is that I haven't had a good night's sleep in almost two weeks for various reasons (this being only one of many--nothing else really too bad, but my sleep is easily interrupted by things as silly as temperature) and part if it is that I have my monthly visitor so I am extra-sensitive and hormonal at the moment. It is most certainly a concern of mine, too, that my husband sees health insurance as a "favor" and doesn't see the corollary between this issue and my being hesitant to have kids with him...that is why I hope to continue working with him to get to a more agreeable common ground.

luv2sparkle: I appreciate your perspective. FWIW, both DH and I EACH have our own individual separate savings account and that works for us (that wasn't his choice alone--that was a decision we made together). That's not as big an issue to me as it seems to some of you, though I understand why you might think it is. Thank you for sharing.
 
heraanderson said:
So much good advice has been given out already but I just wanted to add that you are only adding band aids to the wound in this relationship because the wound has not been healed. You will only be able to repeat this until you find some way to mend it properly.
Money is one of the top reasons for divorce and I am really afraid for your marriage. If he's not willing to go to therapy, then your only other option is to accept him for what he is.
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Wow. Somepeople decided that "blunt" meant "bash your marriage to someone you have said vows to" but I do tend to agree with what hera has said here. To be quite honest, YOU are putting a whooooole lot of effort into figuring out this financial situation and he doesn't seem to be putting a whole lot of effort in on his end. You guys don't seem to be embracing the for richer or poorer part of a marriage, and are dividing things in such a method....you two could use that energy and time being spent on working out finances and bills to spend working on your issues together.

DH and I have a great relationship with each other and money...and I think it is because we both just put it all in a joint account and call it a day. he absorbed my debt...I absorbed his assests! We both came from families that worked hard to get by, so we aren't afraid to spend the money we earn, but never spend over our means. If your husband understands that you two can work thru this TOGETHER...only good can come from it. But I would hate to see the demise of your marriage bc of this. I agree there seem to be many other issues coming into play here besides the moeny, and this is just one part of the complexities. Don't beat yourself up over this. It isn't your fault he didn't do what he said he would do. He should be happy he can provide you with health insurance! Bc if something catastrofic happened and you were uninsured, the government wouldn't care and take BOTH YOUR ASSESsTS.
 
alli_esq said:
Autumnovember: I'm not sure it's so cut and dry as to say that my husband doesn't reciprocate my love or my compassion. Money is the problem, and yeah, it might be an extension of other areas, but for the most part, obviously I get something out of this relationship or I never would have remained it as long as I have or married the guy. I don't think it's important that I go on to extoll his virtues now that I've said what I've said about him so far, but suffice it to say, he is extremely important to me and has some pretty awesome, pretty rare qualities that I find appealing. No relationship is all good or all bad (well, no relationship that is real anyway).

I don't believe I should have to do more to get him to trust me. But the reality is, for whatever the reason, he clearly has doubts about my commitment toward him and I would like to have that change. I don't know that my continuing to show him will encourage that change or not, but I figure it can't hurt. Plus, it comes naturally to me anyway, since I really actually do love him and I was taught to be generous (financially and emotionally) with people I love.
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I suck at making my points clear when I'm writing out my thoughts. I didn't mean for it to sound so cut and dry. I obviously know absolutely nothing about your relationship and what kind of guy he is besides what you let us know about, but I still stand by what I said that sometimes outsiders can offer a perspective we didn't previously think about. When I read both of your threads (and older ones you posted) it just seemed like you have done so much for your relationship but you didn't really mention anything about what HE has done, so it felt extremely one sided to me...if that makes any sense. In one of your other threads you mentioned you were afraid of becoming a statistic, so part of my post was paralleling that statement. I know your SO is very deeply hurt by what happened to him in the past and it can take people varying amounts of time to get past situations like his but you proved your commitment for him when you married him and by continuing to be an amazing wife. I just hope you're able to see how much you're bringing to this marriage and what a great person you are. You made vows when you got married that you were going to stand by him no matter what, that is commitment. Your continued generosity isn't going to hurt but I think eventually if nothing comes of it, you're going to exhaust yourself no matter how naturally it comes to you. Again, I hope that everything works out for you and your husband and you're both able to overcome this together. I'm glad he didn't completely dismiss the idea of a therapist and I'll keep my fingers crossed for your future discussion about it.
 
I understand Alli, and thanks for taking the time to reply to my post! And personally I think you guys can get past this episode...you seem to have found a way to manage your finances that the both of you can live with, and that's great. I'm sorry this situation has upset you so much, maybe the thing to do is just chalk it up to a learning experience for you both and move on...I really and truly hope you and dh can reach a place where you both feel at peace in regard to the issues and feelings this health care episode has brought up. Hugs!
 
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