freaking out! hca came back as fair!!!

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 11/25/2009 3:52:48 AM
Author:jgny
from a friend in the industry,

that always seems to lead to problems
it its from a friend recommending a store, thats cool
if its a friend IN the industry...

 

[jgny]

Re: diameter, GIA report states 9.09 - 9.17. As to pricing, let''s say the number started with a 6... Soo... nice deal, or not?

Re: no halo mounting - my alternate setting is this LM, albeit with a sparklier basket.

 

[FB.]

The picture was taken at a slight angle - which reduces the visibility of the dark "ring of death" - but it is still visible. Look inside the red circles that I''ve added to the picture.

 

[jgny]

FB - thanks, those pics definitely help. Posting some more taken under direct light, tried to get as flat as possible...

Pic 5:

 

[jgny]

Pic 6:

 

[jgny]

Pic 7:

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/25/2009 11:23:23 AM
Author: jgny
Re: diameter, GIA report states 9.09 - 9.17. As to pricing, let''s say the number started with a 6... Soo... nice deal, or not?

Re: no halo mounting - my alternate setting is this LM, albeit with a sparklier basket.

Pricing looks to be average doing a search for similar, others are in the sixes and sevens with GIA reports of similar size.

Thanks FB, thats very helpful.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/25/2009 11:32:07 AM
Author: jgny
FB - thanks, those pics definitely help. Posting some more taken under direct light, tried to get as flat as possible...

Pic 5:

You can see your skin through the diamond, steep deep leakage. You want the light in these areas bouncing back to the eye, what is happening is the diamond is acting like a sieve and light is leaking out.

 

[Cehrabehra]

see in pictures 5 and 7 where you can see almost like a window down onto your skin? If you have it in a halo all of the under will be blocked and instead of skin you will see shadow. That donut of skin is the leakage they''re referring to.

 

[jgny]

Thanks Lorelei, I would say pricing was in the very, very low 6s - would that make it a sweeter deal? The price was definitely the lowest of all the GIA searches I did with similar size, clarity and color.

Date: 11/25/2009 11:33:02 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/25/2009 11:23:23 AM


Pricing looks to be average doing a search for similar, others are in the sixes and sevens with GIA reports of similar size.


Thanks FB, thats very helpful.

 

[jgny]

So - I won''t have the donut in a better cut diamond, correct?

Date: 11/25/2009 11:35:04 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
see in pictures 5 and 7 where you can see almost like a window down onto your skin? If you have it in a halo all of the under will be blocked and instead of skin you will see shadow. That donut of skin is the leakage they''re referring to.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 11/25/2009 11:37:33 AM
Author: jgny
So - I won''t have the donut in a better cut diamond, correct?

Date: 11/25/2009 11:35:04 AM

Author: Cehrabehra

see in pictures 5 and 7 where you can see almost like a window down onto your skin? If you have it in a halo all of the under will be blocked and instead of skin you will see shadow. That donut of skin is the leakage they''re referring to.

Yap, no donut.

 

[kenny]

Date: 11/25/2009 10:59:33 AM
Author: jgny
What are your thoughts on the mounting? Will it help or hinder?


I guess the other thing that I am considering is if this ring was a good 'deal' - it's 3.01 ct, F color, VS1 clarity. What would be considered an excellent price for a stone such as this?


And how does it work with a return? Will my friend need to buy from the same dealer and I am limited in terms of inventory?

It sounds like you can return it but don't want to hurt your friend's feelings.
OMG, wake up.
I can't believe you are actually still considering keeping this diamond.
Stop worrying about your friend.
Start worrying about yourself.

You are about to spend a fortune on something inferior.
You know better now.
This will bug you every time you look down at it, even in a LM setting.
Your friend is not going to follow you around to console you.

Return it and get a well cut diamond, from your friend or not.
Let someone who doesn't know anything about cut take this diamond.

Just be honest.
Tell them about the HCA and tell them you will only consider something under 2.0.
Then it has to pass ASET and IS pic tests.
Give them links explaining HCA IS and ASET tools.
If they balk, walk.
It is your money so you are the boss here.
(Actually they will respect you for this. They know what they're selling but they hope you don't. Really, what kind of "friend" does this? Friends don't sell friend crummy diamonds.)

Settling for an expensive inferior diamond just to "be nice" is absurd.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/25/2009 11:36:11 AM
Author: jgny
Thanks Lorelei, I would say pricing was in the very, very low 6s - would that make it a sweeter deal? The price was definitely the lowest of all the GIA searches I did with similar size, clarity and color.

Ok I am going to be totally honest here as you asked me, for what my opinion is worth, a diamond cut like that would not be worth that amount of money to me. It is showing significant leakage even without Idealscope or ASET images, in fact the leakage is that bad we can see skin through the diamond. For 60 plus k I would definitely want a better cut, doesn't have to be a perfect cut but a diamond which has effective proportions which won't show this amount of hard leakage. Its a HUGE amount of money to buy something you have real and justified doubts about! The diamond will also look worse when it is dirty...

You can buy a superb diamond for that money, even if you lower colour and clarity a bit and improve on the cut, you want a diamond you are excited about, proud of, one which makes you smile whenever you look at it - a well cut diamond has a life and personality all of its own, you don't want a stone which is half dead!

 

[Laila619]

Ok, in the new pics 5, 6, and 7 the leakage is painfully obvious.

Sorry jgny. I would return it pronto. In those pics, the stone almost looks clear, like glass.

 

[Hest88]

Date: 11/25/2009 10:18:16 AM
Author: jgny
Tyty - am open to returning but not sure how that would work. Our contact in in another country so returning is quite a hassle - not to mention that potential ''losing face'' it would mean for us to go back and tell them we want a different diamond.

How much of a hassle? There''s no reason to be coy about the price; this is a diamond board; we all know diamonds are expensive luxuries and have a pretty good idea how much they cost. As others have said, it doesn''t sound like you were ripped off, but the question is can you live with the stone? If you really are talking about sending it to another country perhaps you can live with the stone if you have no other choice.

The other option is to take your stone into your nearest Hearts on Fire dealer (only because those are relatively common) and see if you can compare your stone to comparably sized HoF stone side by side--preferably by the window or under the table away from the pretty store lights--and see if there''s a difference that matters to you. If you find that the difference between the two is minor to your eyes then you can be happy with your stone again.

 

[tonyc2387]

hate to say it jg, but those pics made me go "whoa... ouch". out loud.

Date: 11/25/2009 11:39:38 AM
Author: kenny
It sounds like you can return it but don''t want to hurt your friend''s feelings.
OMG, wake up.
I can''t believe you are actually still considering keeping this diamond.
Stop worrying about your friend.
Start worrying about yourself.

Settling for an expensive inferior diamond just to ''be nice'' is absurd.

typical blunt kenny style... i love it. not afraid of the truth at all, and he''s absolutely right. so is lorelei... for that amount of money, you want a diamond that does what diamonds should do, and that''s reflect light. there''s no doubt about it... that rock''s job was to be sold as a 3ct 1st, and to look like a diamond 2nd.

i don''t know if you have to tell your friend about all those tools... just take it to him, put it between your fingers, and show him the skin that shows through. tell him it''s unacceptable, and you want your money back, end of story... and if he can find you a diamond that''s cut better, you''d be more than happy to continue doing business with him. until then, your (large sum of) money is rightfully looking elsewhere.

oh, and if he doesn''t think it''s unacceptable, tell him you still want your money back, thank him for his help... and run.

 

[FB.]

Date: 11/25/2009 11:40:37 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/25/2009 11:36:11 AM
Author: jgny
Thanks Lorelei, I would say pricing was in the very, very low 6s - would that make it a sweeter deal? The price was definitely the lowest of all the GIA searches I did with similar size, clarity and color.

Ok I am going to be totally honest here as you asked me, for what my opinion is worth, a diamond cut like that would not be worth that amount of money to me. It is showing significant leakage even without Idealscope or ASET images, in fact the leakage is that bad we can see skin through the diamond. For 60 plus k I would definitely want a better cut, doesn''t have to be a perfect cut but a diamond which has effective proportions which won''t show this amount of hard leakage. Its a HUGE amount of money to buy something you have real and justified doubts about! The diamond will also look worse when it is dirty...

You can buy a superb diamond for that money, even if you lower colour and clarity a bit and improve on the cut, you want a diamond you are excited about, proud of, one which makes you smile whenever you look at it - a well cut diamond has a life and personality all of its own, you don''t want a stone which is half dead!

Lorelei

While we often don''t see eye-to-eye (

) on the trade-off between the four C''s, I''d agree that in this instance, carat, colour and clarity have been overweighted and cut has been underweighted.
If I had my heart set on a 3ct stone, I''d trade-off some colour and clarity for a superior cut.

 

[waterlilly]

I''m not in the business at all, but had to respond to this...when does anyone ever get a "nice deal" on a diamond? Pretty much - never, especially if you have a friend "in the business"

NO, not a "nice deal". Is your number one factor in choosing a stone - size? You are going to propose with this ring, correct? Please don''t get hung up on size and keep this stone just because it hits that requirement.

You have major leakage, thus paid the appropriate price for such a stone.

Date: 11/25/2009 11:23:23 AM
Author: jgny
Re: diameter, GIA report states 9.09 - 9.17. As to pricing, let''s say the number started with a 6... Soo... nice deal, or not?


Re: no halo mounting - my alternate setting is this LM, albeit with a sparklier basket.

 

[FB.]

Date: 11/25/2009 11:58:43 AM
Author: Laila619
Ok, in the new pics 5, 6, and 7 the leakage is painfully obvious.

Sorry jgny. I would return it pronto. In those pics, the stone almost looks clear, like glass.

The earlier pictures were taken at a bit of an angle, or with flash illuminating excessively. Many steep/deep are only noticeable from directly overhead. They can work well as earrings (possibly matching an ideal cut)because of the angle that they would sit on your ears that would not show the dark ring and may be reflecting more light at 45degree angles.
But the directly-overhead pictures posted later clearly show the "window" effect of the stone, with no light return until it exits the bottom of the stone and then reflects back skin colour off the fingers.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/25/2009 12:18:13 PM
Author: FB.

Date: 11/25/2009 11:40:37 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/25/2009 11:36:11 AM
Author: jgny
Thanks Lorelei, I would say pricing was in the very, very low 6s - would that make it a sweeter deal? The price was definitely the lowest of all the GIA searches I did with similar size, clarity and color.

Ok I am going to be totally honest here as you asked me, for what my opinion is worth, a diamond cut like that would not be worth that amount of money to me. It is showing significant leakage even without Idealscope or ASET images, in fact the leakage is that bad we can see skin through the diamond. For 60 plus k I would definitely want a better cut, doesn''t have to be a perfect cut but a diamond which has effective proportions which won''t show this amount of hard leakage. Its a HUGE amount of money to buy something you have real and justified doubts about! The diamond will also look worse when it is dirty...

You can buy a superb diamond for that money, even if you lower colour and clarity a bit and improve on the cut, you want a diamond you are excited about, proud of, one which makes you smile whenever you look at it - a well cut diamond has a life and personality all of its own, you don''t want a stone which is half dead!

Lorelei

While we often don''t see eye-to-eye (

) on the trade-off between the four C''s, I''d agree that in this instance, carat, colour and clarity have been overweighted and cut has been underweighted.
If I had my heart set on a 3ct stone, I''d trade-off some colour and clarity for a superior cut.

 

[tonyc2387]

also... one other things from pic 5. take a look outside the black circle I added... see the skin that shows there, too? leakage there makes the diamond appear smaller than it actually is... and that''s a pretty substantial amount of area. so even though it may physically be a 3ct, a well-cut, say, 2.5-2.7ct will look just as big.

 

[sonnyjane]

Compared to the experts that have already commented, I'm a complete layman, but for the amount you are spending, this stone severely lacks. I'd hate to think I blew $60,000 to "save face".

 

[neatfreak]

We always tell people that almost ALWAYS when they buy from a friend they are not getting the deal they think they are.

I wouldn''t spend $60k on that under any circumstances. Sorry! For that kind of money I would want something that actually looks like a 3ct KWIM?

 

[Judah Gutwein]

This all seems really simple.

You have the stone in hand...none of the rest of us do.
You asked for advice on these boards and the folks here are giving you their opinions and advice based upon the information and data at their disposal and without having the diamond in hand.

We did not pay for the stone.
We have no relationship with this jeweler.
We do not have to be happy with this stone...etc.

You are the only one who needs to be comfortable with either keeping or returning this stone.
It is your money, your satisfaction and your personal comfort level that matters here.

Only you can best answer these personal and subjective questions.

Best of luck!

 

[kenny]

Judah, would you buy this stone for your bride?

Which relationship is more important, the one with your jeweler or your bride?

 

[Hest88]

Date: 11/25/2009 1:34:50 PM
Author: kenny
Judah, would you buy this stone for your bride?

That's silly, Kenny.

Of course Judah wouldn't. OTOH, I wouldn't spend any amount of money on a massive cocktail ring or a gold-plated bathroom or even a sports car or any number of things other people might spend money on and enjoy. If the OP ends up liking the stone, and if the hassle of returning an overseas purchase far outweighs her disappointment at it then that's her choice. When comparing other stones she may find she's okay with it. Our job is to simply point out why we would try to return it, not to force her into doing something she's uncomfortable with.

Also, I get the impression the OP is the wearer since she talks about the upgrade, so there's a huge difference between someone giving this ring as opposed to someone willing to live with it.

 

[kenny]

I'm just more in favor of supporting customers getting good diamonds than in jewelers protecting sales of poorly cut ones by using loyalty, guilt, shame, intimidation, saving face or whatever you want to call it.
And frankly a jeweler using the term "relationship" is manipulative if it results in keeping a poorly-cut $60,000 diamond when the customer knows better.

If I was a jeweler and thought of this as a "relationship" I would bend over backwards to NOT sell such a stone.
If it was a relationship I'd only sell a good stone to them.
Relationship? Gimme a break!
This is business.

If jewelers want to protect their sales in this Internet age of increasing diamond education let them sell only well cut diamonds as they educate their customers about performance and how grinding away more rough to achieve it justifies the price.

I think it is only a matter of time before the days of uninformed customers buying poorly cut diamonds comes to an end.

 

[marym]

Just my opinion, but if I were you I would return that diamond ASAP, drop a couple of color and clarity grades, and get the best cut that I could. I certainly would not be looking at a GIA good cut if I wanted the best possible sparkle. I would also consider looking online at Good Old Gold, James Allen, Brian Gavin or Whiteflash. I really think you could get a MUCH better cut (which I think is the most important of the 4 c''s) for significantly less than 60k.

 

[ambition]

i, too, would take it back and look for a better diamond. i''m very biased, but i would personally look at this. it''s a beautiful 3+ ct cushion from GOG, under 60k bias aside, i''m sure you can work with a vendor from here to get a stone you are thrilled with.