GIA EX: Let the buyer beware...

[kenny]

Thanks strmrdr and denverappraiser.
Now that I understand that all AGS 0s do not fit within the huge GIA Ex circle.
I should not have posted here without understanding that.

But perhaps there are other readers who shared my limited understanding and also learned.
There is value in identifying what is confusing - though we all hate to be the dummy in class who raises his had.


But I DO feel all you very smart people need to come up with simple ways to convey complex ideas.

The more complex the message the fewer people will listen.

 

[JohnQuixote]

The AGS0 proportions sets that do not receive GIA EX are at the shallow end of Ideal (GIA favors steep/deep).

Here is a chart for 60t showing AGS Ideal/non GIA EX in red, Ideal/EX in blue and GIA EX/non AGS Ideal in green. These were posted for other table sizes as well. Maybe someone has a link?

 

[JohnQuixote]

The other reason GIA may downgrade an AGS0 proportions set is the issue of stereotyping with brillianteering. Brian explained:

Date: 3/6/2006 10:21:35 AM
Author:BrianTheCutter

Brillianteering is stereotyped: Certain brillianteering approaches are penalized en masse, even when they improve the look of the stone. This stereotyping is a mass-grading shortcut. Diamonds with premium configurations, optical symmetry and careful finish behave differently than those without. This stereotyping penalizes the art of skillful cutting: If GIA wants to downgrade a diamond because a girdle is inconsistent or wavy that is appropriate. But as long as the girdle is of reasonable thickness, is not wavy and is consistent it should be graded as Excellent. Specific configurations and optical symmetry change the playing field. If the effect on light performance is additive it should qualify for a top cut grade in any system, providing that the girdle is consistent.

Brassrat backwards (tarssarb) identified the motivation: "if it is a very small percent of stones, arbitrarily blocking them adds a nice market pitch without effecting many people..."

And Wink addressed it well from the standpoint of most PSers, and connoisseurs of premium make.

Date: 3/9/2006 1:36:47 PM
Author: Wink

It is a very small percentage of stones, as you correctly state, but the effect is to penalize stones with superior light performance, simply because the GIA did not do the homework it stated it was going to do. Instead of taking the time to figure out when it was good or bad, they just penalized all of the stones, thus downgrading stones which are often thought of as works of art by their owners.

There are only a few cutters willing to take the time and make the effort to do this, but it is patently unfair to penalize them for figuring out how to maximize the beauty and the light performance of their stones.

I know I am recapping, but this thread is being read by consumers who may not have digested prior technical threads where these things were discussed.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Prior discussion on PS

For those who want to move from the pond to the deep blue sea (or should that be the ''steep/deep'' blue sea?).

Links in bold are >2 pages.


GIA Nears Release of Diamond Cut Grading System (2/6/04)

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...undation-article-posted-in-the-journal.23588/

GIA Diamond Cut Research Technical FAQ (3/25/05)

15/05)" href="https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-differences-in-appearance-within-gia-diamond-cut-grades.27740/" target="_blank">The Differences in Appearance Within GIA Diamond Cut Grades (4/15/05)

Gia vs AGS cut research a contrast in styles (5/22/05)

More Details on Upcoming GIA Diamond Cut Grading System (7/16/05)

New GIA cut-grading-system launch Jan 2006 (8/2/05)

8/05)" href="https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/why-did-gia-included-steep-deep-diamonds-in-excellent.32135/" target="_blank">Why did GIA include Steep Deep diamonds in ''Excellent'' (8/8/05)

3/06)" href="https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2006-gia-grading-report-post-info-here-please.38131/" target="_blank">2006 GIA grading report - post info (1/3/06)

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...visory-gia-cut-grade-rounding-problems.39401/

 

[strmrdr]

Reading back over those threads the confusion and lack of solid info is mind boggling.
When it comes to why they chose what they did it still is.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Sir John you are amazing orgynizer

Date: 3/9/2006 7:57:53 PM
Author: strmrdr
Reading back over those threads the confusion and lack of solid info is mind boggling.
When it comes to why they chose what they did it still is.

Storm I will try to give Leonid an article explaining why, how what and when they messed up by the end of today or early tommorrow after my flight home to Oz.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 3/9/2006 8:39:47 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Sir John you are amazing orgynizer

Date: 3/9/2006 7:57:53 PM
Author: strmrdr
Reading back over those threads the confusion and lack of solid info is mind boggling.
When it comes to why they chose what they did it still is.

Storm I will try to give Leonid an article explaining why, how what and when they messed up by the end of today or early tommorrow after my flight home to Oz.

Simple non technical answer is global dominance and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 3/9/2006 6:15:04 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
The AGS0 proportions sets that do not receive GIA EX are at the shallow end of Ideal (GIA favors steep/deep).

Here is a chart for 60t showing AGS Ideal/non GIA EX in red, Ideal/EX in blue and GIA EX/non AGS Ideal in green. These were posted for other table sizes as well. Maybe someone has a link?

It is the pdf file that I posted on this and other threads

https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/download.asp?fileID=36935&topicID=39401&forumID=3&catID=1

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 3/9/2006 1:30:13 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 3/9/2006 10:35:16 AM
Author: RockDoc
Rockdoc has a solution for this.......

I''ve discussed a little of this with Marty.......

We will need some consumer ''volunteers''. The details of how this will work will need to be kept confidential so I am not going to go into detail here, so this is kept ''squeaky clean'', pure and without any sort of bias against anyone.

I will briefly tell you all what is needed.

CONSUMERS that have Diamonds that have either one of the new GIA report stating it is excellent cut grade from a consumer or an updated report that states.

If you have one of these and wish to participate - contact me by email - [email protected]

We will need 50- to 200 consumers to volunteer.

Rockdoc

With all respect Bill, we believe ‘confidential’ is the problem in the first place.

The internet allows transparency, and the freedom to share. Corporations should realize the importance of feedback and openness with their customers. The entire public is GIA’s customers, but they failed to be open and used trade members with bias to do their studies. We don’t want to imitate what they’re doing.

John, What Bill wants to do I can''t discuss, but from what I know, the "results" might be VERY interesting.
Don''t MISINTERPRET the word "confidential"

 

[tarssarb]

Date: 3/9/2006 10:45:43 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 3/9/2006 6:15:04 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
The AGS0 proportions sets that do not receive GIA EX are at the shallow end of Ideal (GIA favors steep/deep).

Here is a chart for 60t showing AGS Ideal/non GIA EX in red, Ideal/EX in blue and GIA EX/non AGS Ideal in green. These were posted for other table sizes as well. Maybe someone has a link?

It is the pdf file that I posted on this and other threads

https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/download.asp?fileID=36935&topicID=39401&forumID=3&catID=1

Hi, can you clarify what version of gia and ags are overlayed in this plot... the new ones or old ones.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 3/10/2006 6:11:16 PM
Author: tarssarb

Date: 3/9/2006 10:45:43 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 3/9/2006 6:15:04 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
The AGS0 proportions sets that do not receive GIA EX are at the shallow end of Ideal (GIA favors steep/deep).

Here is a chart for 60t showing AGS Ideal/non GIA EX in red, Ideal/EX in blue and GIA EX/non AGS Ideal in green. These were posted for other table sizes as well. Maybe someone has a link?

It is the pdf file that I posted on this and other threads

http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/download.asp?fileID=36935&topicID=39401&forumID=3&catID=1

Hi, can you clarify what version of gia and ags are overlayed in this plot... the new ones or old ones.

Since I don''t know "exactly", since I didn''t do the original work, only reformated it last time on 2/2/06 where I added some color coding and created the pdf, maybe a week after the original work was done. Remember It was "illegal" to use G-D''s software and try to figure out the boundaries, so I deleted the original email

. I had posted a version prior to this one on one of the threads without the color coding for the original GIA class 1,2,3,4 system the day I got it. Sorry, but I can''t be more specific than that.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 3/10/2006 12:18:23 PM
Author: adamasgem

John, What Bill wants to do I can't discuss, but from what I know, the 'results' might be VERY interesting.
Don't MISINTERPRET the word 'confidential'

A parallel study that would be meaningful to science, professionals and enthusiasts is fine Marty/Bill.
But I think the communication we link for the public-at-large needs to be designed with KISS in mind.

 

[JohnQuixote]

This article appeared in yesterday''s GIA Insider:

http://www.gia.edu/newsroom/issue/2798/2536/insider_newsletter_details.cfm#3

 

[MissAva]

This article was interesting, but after reading it twice I found that I disagreed with some of what was written, I did not like their claim of “scientific” studies. I think they must be confused on how those are performed. I also have to wonder at who they think will be benefiting from their new system, add to that their not so subtle swipes at others and overall all I wanted to do was roll my eyes.

 

[oldminer]

These words are what GIA is claiming to do with their cut grade system:

1. The system is Scientific.
2. The system is Practical to use.
3. The system is Comprehensive.
4. The system acknowledges personal and regional Tastes and Preferences.
5. The system is Predictive.
6. The system is Accessible.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This is my interpretation of each pint they made:

Point#1. The GIA system is based on scientific methodology. There is good science and bad science. The GIA took some questionable approaches as if they were the best choices. This puts the outcome into doubt. The best science limits the variables. There are other problems, too.

Point #2. Practical is nice, but accuracy is a needed ingredient that may have been shortchanged. If one "rounds off" to the nearest "5", then 0.9 - 0.5=0.0 Hardly accurate and maybe impractical to rely upon.

Point#3. Grading round diamonds of standard facet arrangement only is hardly a complete system of grading the cut of diamonds. We need "standards" for every shape and style. Ray and beam tracing predictive tools have little hope of perfecting fancy shape grading.

Point #4. Are we saying that one culture''s dog is another culture''s icon of beauty. What sort of nonsense is that? A range of acceptable beauty is something inherent in ALL people and not all that culturally biased. Nuance differences of what is judged most beautiful are quite close from culture to culture. Cutters will love wide ranges of "ideal", but this is hardly the time to produce more smoke and mirrors. A little straightforward creation of meaningful "STANDARDS" is what is called for.

Point #5. All systems are eventually predictive. You can design a system which will generally predict outcome, but you ought not base a STANDARD on predictive measures. No standard in the world is predictively based, so I am told. If you predict from measuring devices that have a high degree of machine error and then round off on top of this error, you have garbage in and garbage out... This is no standard and I would be hard pressed to defend this as a good "system". Yes, we could use this system for an interim period, but it is not the STANDARD we''d all hope to have. We can MEASURE light performance and use the data mined from it to give predictions based on reality. The measurement of Light Behavior can be a true STANDARD and the predictions that arise from data mining will be as accurate or more accurate than ray tracing predictions.

Point #6. You can give people a predictive tool, like DiamCalc, which will be endlessly helpful to cutters and to consumers who want some information to crunch. You can do it with the goal of incorporating it into diamond Course lessons and making some money teaching something new. From the analsysis of some of the very qualified diamond folks here, the accessible system is somehat flawed and bases the outcome on some difficult to obtain numbers if one hopes to be accurate. What''s the point if accuracy is left to question?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Anyway, its all food for thought and reflection. I hope we will see a coming together of the various "systems" into an "International Standard" of Diamond Cut Grading in the near future. It ought to be a standard that truly meets the goals that GIA has set out for itself in addition to being repeatable, precise, accurate, unbiased, and honest. I don''t doubt the good intentions of GIA, but I do question their marketing hyperbole. Obviously, many others also have similar issues with what has been expressed.

 

[Lazarus]

This is NOT good news for the layperson consumer!

The vast majority of certified diamonds for sale in the U.S. are graded by the GIA or EGL. I''ve encountered none that have AGS certification. Up until now, I''ve always assumed that the GIA''s standards of grading were superior to most other systems. If I cannot trust the accuracy and integrity of GIA''s grading reports, then where am I supposed to go to find AGS certified diamonds?

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 3/12/2006 1:30:26 PM
Author: oldminer

These words are what GIA is claiming to do with their cut grade system:

4. The system acknowledges personal and regional Tastes and Preferences.

This is my interpretation of each pint they made:

Point #4. Are we saying that one culture''s dog is another culture''s icon of beauty. What sort of nonsense is that? A range of acceptable beauty is something inherent in ALL people and not all that culturally biased. Nuance differences of what is judged most beautiful are quite close from culture to culture. Cutters will love wide ranges of ''ideal'', but this is hardly the time to produce more smoke and mirrors. A little straightforward creation of meaningful ''STANDARDS'' is what is called for.

Well stated Dave

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 3/12/2006 2:41:13 PM
Author: Lazarus
This is NOT good news for the layperson consumer!

The vast majority of certified diamonds for sale in the U.S. are graded by the GIA or EGL. I've encountered none that have AGS certification. Up until now, I've always assumed that the GIA's standards of grading were superior to most other systems. If I cannot trust the accuracy and integrity of GIA's grading reports, then where am I supposed to go to find AGS certified diamonds?

Let me correct a common consumer misconception and mostly intentional misuse by the "trade" of "certified", by quoting from the GIA web sitel

" CERTIFICATION
We have identified the following incorrect practices 1) references to GIA Reports as "certificates"; and 2) the statement that students, graduates, their businesses, or particular gemstones are "certified" by GIA.

The Gemological Institute of America does not certify anyone or anything. Neither a student nor a graduate who has been awarded a certificate or diploma, nor a gem which has been graded or identified by GIA has been "certified" by GIA."

http://www.gia.edu/about/42/copyright__trademarks.cfm

What they (GIA) are trying to say is THAT THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES, implied or otherwise, however the SELLER may create a warranty by reference to "certified".

 

[kenny]

Lazurus asked, "where am I supposed to go to find AGS certified diamonds? "


I think all of Bluenile's signature collection come with AGS reports
Whiteflash and goodoldgold have some AGS stones too.

Perhaps contact AGS and ask them if their is a retailer in your area that carries AGS stones if you don't like to buyonline.
Their phone number is 702 233 6120
http://www.agslab.com/

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/12/2006 2:41:13 PM
Author: Lazarus
This is NOT good news for the layperson consumer!

The vast majority of certified diamonds for sale in the U.S. are graded by the GIA or EGL. I''ve encountered none that have AGS certification. Up until now, I''ve always assumed that the GIA''s standards of grading were superior to most other systems. If I cannot trust the accuracy and integrity of GIA''s grading reports, then where am I supposed to go to find AGS certified diamonds?

Lazarus,

Any vendor here and any retail storefront will be happy to assist you in getting AGS graded diamonds. All you have to do is ask any of them. Any who refuse to do so will obviously not be getting YOUR business.

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/12/2006 4:20:01 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/12/2006 2:41:13 PM

Author: Lazarus

This is NOT good news for the layperson consumer!

The vast majority of certified diamonds for sale in the U.S. are graded by the GIA or EGL. I''ve encountered none that have AGS certification. Up until now, I''ve always assumed that the GIA''s standards of grading were superior to most other systems. If I cannot trust the accuracy and integrity of GIA''s grading reports, then where am I supposed to go to find AGS certified diamonds?

Lazarus,


Any vendor here and any retail storefront will be happy to assist you in getting AGS graded diamonds. All you have to do is ask any of them. Any who refuse to do so will obviously not be getting YOUR business.


Wink

kewl less compitition on the GIA graded super-ideals for me.

I figured this was heading that way, consumers ready to cut off their noses to spite their faces, over what is a lot of ways an insiders fight with no unbiased opinions in site.
Including mine because I like the AGS system better because it more suits the way I prefere to shop for diamonds and gives great grades to the diamonds I like, making me feel good :}
And the ASET is a kewl toy I like.

Nothing has changed the GIA reports are just as good as they were a few months ago they just have more info on them that I consider not that useful for selecting the diamonds I want to buy.
No lab provides it so I pay extra to have the vendors do it.
Nothing has changed in the world of Pricescope buyers.
We have delt for years with overly wide old ags0 we will deal just fine with an overly wide GIA one too.
Those that love painted girdle diamonds will continue to buy them those that dont wont.

 

[amarz]

As I am completely new to "diamond lingo", much of what is being discussed here goes WAY over my head. However, instead of simply disregarding stones accompanied by GIA reports and searching out soley those stones with an AGS cut grade, I plan to do the following:
1. Get as much information about the stone as possible (Sarin, Idealscope, etc.)
2. Post that information here on pricescope and let the experts advise
3. Buy from a trusted vendor with a good reputation

While my diamond knowledge is still very much in the early stages of development, I find it very reassuring that there are vendors and experts such as Brian Gavin, Wink, Gary etc. who are passionate enough about what they do to stand up and speak out in order to protect consumers and the dignity of their trade. As a consumer, the fact that you all are willing to openly discuss these concerns, advocate for change, and still remain openminded and respectful, speaks volumes about your character. So, Lazarus, my suggestion would be to purchase a stone from a well respected vendor (such as those found on pricescope) who will use their eyes and expertise to help you select a stone that is beautiful and meets THEIR strict standards, instead of relying on the lab report that accompanies it. I think that you would be doing yourself a disservice to simply weed out all stones that come with a GIA report as some of them, as far as I understand, are still going to be killer stones.

To all the experts, keep up the good work, those lacking diamond knowledge (Me

) really appreciate it!


Angela

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 3/13/2006 4:51:22 PM
Author: amarz
As I am completely new to ''diamond lingo'', much of what is being discussed here goes WAY over my head. However, instead of simply disregarding stones accompanied by GIA reports and searching out soley those stones with an AGS cut grade, I plan to do the following:
1. Get as much information about the stone as possible (Sarin, Idealscope, etc.)
2. Post that information here on pricescope and let the experts advise
3. Buy from a trusted vendor with a good reputation

While my diamond knowledge is still very much in the early stages of development, I find it very reassuring that there are vendors and experts such as Brian Gavin, Wink, Gary etc. who are passionate enough about what they do to stand up and speak out in order to protect consumers and the dignity of their trade. As a consumer, the fact that you all are willing to openly discuss these concerns, advocate for change, and still remain openminded and respectful, speaks volumes about your character. So, Lazarus, my suggestion would be to purchase a stone from a well respected vendor (such as those found on pricescope) who will use their eyes and expertise to help you select a stone that is beautiful and meets THEIR strict standards, instead of relying on the lab report that accompanies it. I think that you would be doing yourself a disservice to simply weed out all stones that come with a GIA report as some of them, as far as I understand, are still going to be killer stones.

To all the experts, keep up the good work, those lacking diamond knowledge (Me

) really appreciate it!


Angela

Angela,
I applaud you on a very sensible post that''s right on target. Your advice to fellow PS''ers and consumers is correct. Those of us that have been in this industry for decades, are truly passionate about what we do. If we didn''t truly care about the jewelry industry, we wouldn''t fight so hard for honesty and strong ethics.
I still believe strongly in GIA and their educational programs for aspiring gemologists and those who study their courses. The issues with the lab should remain separate from the educational programs. In other words, we shouldn''t lump everything related to GIA as negative. Hopefully, the major issues will be resolved...the sooner the better.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Date: 3/13/2006 11:00:56 PM
Author: Modified Brilliant

Date: 3/13/2006 4:51:22 PM
Author: amarz
As I am completely new to 'diamond lingo', much of what is being discussed here goes WAY over my head. However, instead of simply disregarding stones accompanied by GIA reports and searching out soley those stones with an AGS cut grade, I plan to do the following:
1. Get as much information about the stone as possible (Sarin, Idealscope, etc.)
2. Post that information here on pricescope and let the experts advise
3. Buy from a trusted vendor with a good reputation

While my diamond knowledge is still very much in the early stages of development, I find it very reassuring that there are vendors and experts such as Brian Gavin, Wink, Gary etc. who are passionate enough about what they do to stand up and speak out in order to protect consumers and the dignity of their trade. As a consumer, the fact that you all are willing to openly discuss these concerns, advocate for change, and still remain openminded and respectful, speaks volumes about your character. So, Lazarus, my suggestion would be to purchase a stone from a well respected vendor (such as those found on pricescope) who will use their eyes and expertise to help you select a stone that is beautiful and meets THEIR strict standards, instead of relying on the lab report that accompanies it. I think that you would be doing yourself a disservice to simply weed out all stones that come with a GIA report as some of them, as far as I understand, are still going to be killer stones.

To all the experts, keep up the good work, those lacking diamond knowledge (Me

) really appreciate it!


Angela

Angela,
I applaud you on a very sensible post that's right on target. Your advice to fellow PS'ers and consumers is correct. Those of us that have been in this industry for decades, are truly passionate about what we do. If we didn't truly care about the jewelry industry, we wouldn't fight so hard for honesty and strong ethics.
I still believe strongly in GIA and their educational programs for aspiring gemologists and those who study their courses. The issues with the lab should remain separate from the educational programs. In other words, we shouldn't lump everything related to GIA as negative. Hopefully, the major issues will be resolved...the sooner the better.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

Wonderful comments.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 3/13/2006 11:00:56 PM
Author: Modified Brilliant
I still believe strongly in GIA and their educational programs for aspiring gemologists and those who study their courses. The issues with the lab should remain separate from the educational programs. In other words, we shouldn''t lump everything related to GIA as negative. Hopefully, the major issues will be resolved...the sooner the better.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

I second that thought!!!!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Here are AGS and GIA cut comparison charts. As was noted, 5 ''common'' blocks were omitted for 40.8/34 combos between 54-58t. I''ll try to get that corrected.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-and-gia-cut-comparison-charts.41793/

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 3/12/2006 3:03:40 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 3/12/2006 2:41:13 PM
Author: Lazarus
This is NOT good news for the layperson consumer!

The vast majority of certified diamonds for sale in the U.S. are graded by the GIA or EGL. I''ve encountered none that have AGS certification. Up until now, I''ve always assumed that the GIA''s standards of grading were superior to most other systems. If I cannot trust the accuracy and integrity of GIA''s grading reports, then where am I supposed to go to find AGS certified diamonds?

Let me correct a common consumer misconception and mostly intentional misuse by the ''trade'' of ''certified'', by quoting from the GIA web sitel

'' CERTIFICATION
We have identified the following incorrect practices 1) references to GIA Reports as ''certificates''; and 2) the statement that students, graduates, their businesses, or particular gemstones are ''certified'' by GIA.


The Gemological Institute of America does not certify anyone or anything. Neither a student nor a graduate who has been awarded a certificate or diploma, nor a gem which has been graded or identified by GIA has been ''certified'' by GIA.''

http://www.gia.edu/about/42/copyright__trademarks.cfm

What they (GIA) are trying to say is THAT THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES, implied or otherwise, however the SELLER may create a warranty by reference to ''certified''.

Hey Marty,

For the benefit of those unaware, thanks for the "refresher" course in the definition of "certified." Anyone who checks their local yellow pages will
no doubt see many ads by jewelry stores using the word "certified." This is an ongoing tedious discussion that is similar to a nagging toothache. We will continue to see very little enforcement as it is virtually impossible to police.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/14/2006 9:44:48 PM
Author: Modified Brilliant
Hey Marty,

For the benefit of those unaware, thanks for the ''refresher'' course in the definition of ''certified.'' Anyone who checks their local yellow pages will
no doubt see many ads by jewelry stores using the word ''certified.'' This is an ongoing tedious discussion that is similar to a nagging toothache. We will continue to see very little enforcement as it is virtually impossible to police.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

It is obvious that gIA gives people QUALIFICATIONS on a certificate - not certify''s them as doies say AGS in its appraisers qualification - then they must continue to do updates - where as GIA does not require ongoing updates for GG''s
.
But GIA does produce a certificate for diamonds, and no amount of leagalise will change that. A cert is a cert.
A report is a cert, a cert is a report.
GIA can not change common language usage - no one can.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 3/15/2006 1:00:08 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

But GIA does produce a certificate for diamonds, and no amount of leagalise will change that. A cert is a cert.
A report is a cert, a cert is a report.
GIA can not change common language usage - no one can.

Garry.. Again I offer the direct quote from GIA "The Gemological Institute of America does not certify anyone or anything".

They might not follows the Queen''s English either.

What an English word in the world of OZ means is one of the problems in communication between two cultures separated by a common language.

Sort of like what it all depends upon the meaning of the word "IS" is, and the convenient definitions of words like "none" or "excellent" on diamond grading reports

Read the fine print on the front and back of any laboratory paper, each have their own "definition" of things, they offer OPINIONS, and as you know, everyone has one.

The TRADE created and bastardized the term "cert", and created the misnomer that it was a guarantee, which many have found out to their dismay, it was not.

Here in the US, the GIA took great pains to specifically state what is on their web site, and even maybe still does, include that warning published on their web site when they pass out their GG diplomas.

 

[Serg]

re:A report is a cert, a cert is a report.

No.
Report can do anybody.
For certification you should use( follow) standard.
GIA produce reports only.