Good Family Dogs

[iLander]

I just wrote an apology to you by editing my last post--I'm just cranky because I'm in pain and I took it out on you. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that.

Oh, Haven, I'm the one that should be sorry!

This whole thread has got me cranky, I shouldn't have picked on you.

Sorry about that!

I'm also sorry about your back pain, my DH had that and it was miserable. Hope you feel better soon!

 

[elrohwen]

iLander, I can give you some sources, but I don't get the impression that you're interested in learning about why dominance theory has been thoroughly debunked. Wild/feral dogs do not engage in a dominance hierarchy the way we have been lead to believe and using this type of training is counter productive and not effective. It's just not the way dogs function and dog behavior theory has moved past it in the last 20 years. Like Haven said, this is a discussion forum, and sometimes you're going to hear opinions and information that differ from your own. I have experience in this area and have done the research - assuming that others come from a place of ignorance will only make you frustrated.

eta: I also find it ironic that you made a statement - "Dogs are pack animals, there is dominance in a pack. End of story." - then immediately stated that just because someone says it's a fact doesn't mean it is. That's exactly my point here - just because you have stated it does not make it fact. In this case, I am not stating idle facts, I have the researchers and professionals of the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior on my side: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance%20statement.pdf.... Please, read some of the research out there - I think you'll be surprised at what you find.

 

[dragonfly411]

Ilander - I'm pretty sure it was made clear in my original post that if a pitt bull or related breed were chosen then it should be done so with full research into the breeder, genetics, and the related dogs, to make sure it is what is wanted. Again, with Pitt Bulls being bred and trained to fight by stupid individuals, and being trained as guard dogs, then yes bites do happen. Once again though ANY DOG WILL BITE.

 

[waterlilly]

English Bulldogs are not for beginners, because of their irresistible appearance - they are highly sought after and you need to get one either from a breed rescue or a reputable breeder - a well bred EBD will cost you in the thousands. An EBD that ends up in a city shelter very likely could have costly health or behavioral issues that you don't want to deal with. You RARELY see healthy well bred EBD's in shelters.

I volunteer with an all breed dog rescue and have had just about every breed/shape/size/temperament of dog in my house at one time.

I would never, EVER trust ANY of the dogs that have been in my care with an infant or toddler. EVER. Infants should never be in close contact with any dog, and toddlers/children should never be left in the same room alone with any dog or allowed unsupervised close contact, period. I cringe whenever I hear about kids "crawling" all over dogs or see pictures of infants being place on/near dogs and people think it's cute. It's dangerous, why would the potential for a bite ever be worth it? Kids should never be taught that it is OK to crawl on a dog, God forbid they try that at a friends house with a strange dog because it's OK to do at their own house.

Breed to me, doesn't matter. I'll promote getting a mutt over a purebred till I die, because as a rule for me - it's simply about the individual dog's personality - there is no way to predict if a dog is going to be good with children just based on it's breed.

If I were just jumping into the dog world and needed help deciding on what dog to get - and thinking of having kids in the future - I might contact a professional trainer / behaviorist to help me evaluate/choose any dog before I brought it home.

Decided what mix/breed fits your general lifestyle first (exercise requirements, space requirements, grooming, etc.), then start to narrow down individuals based on their personalities being able to coexist with a child in the future. NEVER choose a dog just based on looks - "pretty" or "cool" looking dogs can be devils in disguise. Breeds that are beautiful (Siberian Huskies for example) can be a nightmare to own if you aren't up for the lifestyle they need to thrive.

 

[waterlilly]

It took me years to find a breed that worked for me! I am a pretty inconsistent novice dog owner and any dominance in a breed would come out with me raising them. I had a miniature dachsund and it was a nightmare. She looked so sweet, but she didn't respect me and became nippy and growled at my toddler/child. I gave her to my uncle and she did fine with him, but he's bossy and dominant and the dog calmed right down. A dog becomes an issue when you make them feel insecure and they feel they have to take over. You need a SUBMISSIVE, obedient breed. No German Shephards, Rotties, NO Terriers, not even Yorkies! Terriers (ALL of them were bred to be fierce ratters, they can be spiteful and poop on your couch, then suddenly they're not so cute)

Most of the things written here have already been addressed...but...

A person does not have to be bossy or dominant to earn a dog's respect - ever. You need to be able to provide the exercise the individual dog requires, and be confident & competent enough to train the individual, no matter how dominant the dog's personality is. Some individuals take longer than others or require more advanced methods and time than others, but it's never about being bossy or dominant in your training methods - that's a sure way to get bit and have a unstable dog on your hands. I don't know where you learned that. It's not that you weren't bossy/dominant enough with that dachshund, I'm guessing it's that you didn't know enough about dog training/behavior in general.

 

[AGBF]

NEVER choose a dog just based on looks - "pretty" or "cool" looking dogs can be devils in disguise. Breeds that are beautiful (Siberian Huskies for example) can be a nightmare to own if you aren't up for the lifestyle they need to thrive.

When the ads started to come out for, Marly and Me I knew someone was stealing my story. I also knew that Marly could never be as bad as my yellow Lab, Biscuit. If you want to talk about devils in disguise, look no farther than your Labrador Retrievers! They may not kill anyone. In fact, I don't know of one who has done that. But they can be a handful! And I took my dog to obedience class and hired a private trainer. He was so good (he was a very smart boy) that the trainer let me have free classes because he used him as the demo dog for the obedience classes! Biscuit knew all the hand gestures and often even followed them! Unless, for example, someone came to the front door. Then he knew he needed to guard it, no matter what anyone said!

Deb/AGBF

 

[dragonfly411]

Our Lab is determined that we want every turtle that enters our yard. She will not let them crawl away unless we go touch it. She is SURE That she is supposed to protect all baby animals, including birds, kittens, and my dogs, no matter who says what. She also just knows that if you sit on the floor it means you want all 60 lbs of her in your lap.

 

[AGBF]

She also just knows that if you sit on the floor it means you want all 60 lbs of her in your lap.

Oh! You have one of those new miniature breed Labs! How cute! Biscuit, when lean, was 110 lbs of muscle. The vet said, "He's not a Biscuit! He's a whole loaf of bread!" and, "He's a Great Dane in Lab's clothing!". So you can see why my daughter needs a Newfoundland to top what she had last!

Deb

 

[House Cat]

Mini Dachschunds. We're 3rd generation owners and they are wonderful dogs with kids. They will put up with anything - ours used to get dressed up and wheeled around in prams like dolls!

I will emphasize that I believe ALL dogs require a certain level of discipline and anyone who tells you that Daschshunds are nippy little snappers is a incompetent owner who doesn't know how to raise a dog properly.... This applies to all breeds. You are the "top dog" not them.

Agree with the others that you should have the kids first THEN get the dog.

Are you aware of this study?

http://indigorescue.org/?page_id=83

Again and again dachshunds are being found as breed most likely to bite. We aren't talking fatal bites...just most bites period. Everyone wants to speak of fatal bites but small dog bites can be disfiguring. My sister's cheek was bitten and eaten by a small dog. Her face will never be the same.

 

[AGBF]

Are you aware of this study?

http://indigorescue.org/?page_id=83

I was not. I was aware that Labs were considered one of the best breeds with children, but I didn't know that they were ranked #1 based on an an actual piece of research that studied their number of bites and rated their aggressiveness. The "bad Lab" I had had to be controlled by us all his life until he became too physically weak to attack people at our front door. Despite our need to control him (which we did), I knew he would never bite-even at the front door-to do damage. He was an idiot, but on the few occasions before we got control, he ripped the jacket off a delivery man; grabbed the mailman by his leather belt; and nipped a couple of "intruders", never drawing blood. It was a front door thing. The problem was that if a 110 lb dog is throwing himself at you, growling, and the owner says, "Just come inside and close the the door" it is counter-intuitive to do it. It solved the problem whenever anyone did it, however.

Deb/AGBF

 

[ksinger]

Are you aware of this study?

http://indigorescue.org/?page_id=83

I was not. I was aware that Labs were considered one of the best breeds with children, but I didn't know that they were ranked #1 based on an an actual piece of research that studied their number of bites and rated their aggressiveness. The "bad Lab" I had had to be controlled by us all his life until he became too physically weak to attack people at our front door. Despite our need to control him (which we did), I knew he would never bite-even at the front door-to do damage. He was an idiot, but on the few occasions before we got control, he ripped the jacket off a delivery man; grabbed the mailman by his leather belt; and nipped a couple of "intruders", never drawing blood. It was a front door thing. The problem was that if a 110 lb dog is throwing himself at you, growling, and the owner says, "Just come inside and close the the door" it is counter-intuitive to do it. It solved the problem whenever anyone did it, however.

Deb/AGBF

My husband will be thrilled to know labs are #1. We are on our second "rescue" lab, and while the first one was a great dog, and would probably try to dissolve you to death with slobber, the new one we have is quirky and (if such can be said about a large dog) darn cute. Watching him play keep-away with a tennis ball, is just a side-splitter. GREAT dog!! (of course right now he's barking at something, so I must go hush him..probably a SQUIRREL!!)

 

[AGBF]

I am not sure if this picture is going to come out too tiny to see, but I am attempting to post a picture of my daughter (when she was a child) with our Lab. He was incredibly loveable.

Deb/AGBF

 

[junebug17]

Housecat, that is a very interesting study. Yay for labs! I must admit to being a bit biased because I own one, but honestly my dog is the sweetest, friendliest dog you'd ever want to meet. He adores kids and wags his tail every time he sees one. He stands there happily while the neighborhood kids pet him and fawn all over him. He is very gentle and sweet towards everyone. The whole neighborhood knows him and likes him. My vet constantly comments on what a cooperative, obedient dog he is and how he wishes all his "patients" were like Cowboy. Ok, enough shameless bragging about my wonderdog. But I would recommend a lab for kids, hands down.

I will admit that labs can be a little hyper. My dog was a little wild for about the first six months, but I worked with a trainer and he settled down. A friend of mine has a lab who is very sweet, but holy moly is she hyper. I attribute at least some of it to not being properly trained.

Also, the study is on the money for me, in that my dog can occasionally be a little skittish with other dogs. I think some of that is due to being attacked three separate times while I walked him through the neighborhood (dogs getting loose from the house or yard. ) Scared the bejesus out of both of us, and I think it made him wary of other dogs.

 

[AGBF]

This is a picture of my Lab by himself. He was too big for the breed standards. As I said above, he was very loveable. I used to lie on his bed with him and cuddle. I imagine that the people on my front porch at whom he hurled himself, growling, did not find him loveable. (All they had to do was come in and shut the door!)

Deb/AGBF

 

[ksinger]

Yes! Yay for labs!

This our very supple hound, Sonny. This is one of the more comfortable looking positions he contorts himself into. Seriously, he's like a cat: no spine. I've never seen a big dog twist like him.

He's a delightful indoor dog for a big one. Calm as dirt and well-mannered - except for the occasional attempt to get up on the sofa. He'd be on the bed like a shot too, if we let him.

 

[dragonfly411]

She also just knows that if you sit on the floor it means you want all 60 lbs of her in your lap.

Oh! You have one of those new miniature breed Labs! How cute! Biscuit, when lean, was 110 lbs of muscle. The vet said, "He's not a Biscuit! He's a whole loaf of bread!" and, "He's a Great Dane in Lab's clothing!". So you can see why my daughter needs a Newfoundland to top what she had last!

Deb

Roxy just runs too much lol. She's got a lot of "hunting" background dogs in her, and she shows it, loves to chase squirrels and loves to swim and get ropes. She doesn't get to swim as much now b/c we have no pool, and have to take her places with water, but she still runs like no one's business.

 

[Puppmom]

Take Rhodesian Ridgebacks off the list...my dog scared away all of the trick-or-treaters last night!

 

[Prana]

I love all the pictures! Such sweet faces!

 

[Mara]

i personally think that most dogs can be 'good family dogs' if the training is there... our little Westie is not typically known to be good with kids but she is very tolerant and mellow and a fair amt of that is how we raised her and the training we did with her. yes breed and background do have something to do with it too. does she love our little 9mo old? not really... but she's learning to live with him and i think over time he and she will be good friends. will she absolutely never act out of line with him? probably not. but we know that and try to act accordingly.

all that to say that if someone has their heart set on a particular breed--knowing the potential pitfalls of the breed and where to watch for issues, will help make it more successful for all in the family (even future babes)--and being willing to give the dog the training it needs--and be firm about it.

if you can have the kids first then the dog, great. but we had our dog for 5 years and she was definitely an only child and she is adjusting ok. for the most part.

 

[Prana]

Well said, Mara.

 

[Liane]

To the OP, I still stand by my suggestion of adopting from a shelter and asking specifically for dogs that are good with kids. There are a million labs in shelters, and labs are generally regarded (in this thread at least) to be good with kids. The important thing is that you can find a dog that fits your lifestyle and will get along with children. If you do get a puppy, make sure you spend a ton of time introducing your dog to other children, since you won't have one of your own.

YES. A thousand times, yes. This is the best possible advice (and "get an adult or older puppy," which was said back on page one, I think). You'll be saving a life AND getting a dog that is, as best any human being can predict, temperamentally suited for being a calm, patient, affectionate family pet.

Every breed is going to have its advocates and detractors, as this thread has so energetically shown, but ultimately breed temperaments are just averages and tendencies. Any individual dog will be at least a little bit different, especially if you get a popular breed (because there's a much greater risk of overbreeding and careless deviation from the standard), and especially if you get a dog from a backyard breeder or pet shop/puppy mill (but you wouldn't do that, I'm sure!).

If it is very important that you have a dog with a specific personality -- and for a family dog who's going to be around young children, that is absolutely paramount -- then you should get a stable adult, and you should get it from a good shelter that has trained, experienced temperament evaluators or a good breeder who has the same experience.

The breed doesn't matter so much. The individual dog does.

 

[Steel]

I all the gorgeous lab pictures. What unbelievable cuties. I wanna give all of them a biscuit!

 

[zoebartlett]

I know labs are great dogs but what about retrievers? I'm surprised that no one's mentioned them yet. I haven't owned one, so I can't speak from personal experience, but all of the retrievers I've known have been fabulous dogs and GREAT with kids/families.

 

[Liane]

My own family dog growing up was a black Lab. Super friendly dog, smart, patient, never threatened to bite a soul... but big dogs have strong tails, especially Labs, who have thick muscular otter tails because they were designed to be powerful swimmers.

That dog used to knock my brother flying just because she was so happy to see him when he came home from school.

 

[elrohwen]

I know labs are great dogs but what about retrievers? I'm surprised that no one's mentioned them yet. I haven't owned one, so I can't speak from personal experience, but all of the retrievers I've known have been fabulous dogs and GREAT with kids/families.

Labs are retrievers Unless you mean golden retrievers? They're also fantastic kid dogs! I actually prefer them - labs can be extremely hyperactive and goldens tend to be a bit more mellow.

 

[dragonfly411]

I know labs are great dogs but what about retrievers? I'm surprised that no one's mentioned them yet. I haven't owned one, so I can't speak from personal experience, but all of the retrievers I've known have been fabulous dogs and GREAT with kids/families.

Labs are retrievers Unless you mean golden retrievers? They're also fantastic kid dogs! I actually prefer them - labs can be extremely hyperactive and goldens tend to be a bit more mellow.

The only thing that I worry about with goldens is cancer. I don't know if this is all goldens, but almost every single one I've known ended up with cancer as an older dog which is so sad. I think every breed has it's own health issues though so. Yorkies apparently have teeth issues, but we give ours dentastix and the vet says she has better teeth than he does LOL!

 

[AGBF]

I know labs are great dogs but what about retrievers? I'm surprised that no one's mentioned them yet. I haven't owned one, so I can't speak from personal experience, but all of the retrievers I've known have been fabulous dogs and GREAT with kids/families.

Labs are retrievers Unless you mean golden retrievers? They're also fantastic kid dogs! I actually prefer them - labs can be extremely hyperactive and goldens tend to be a bit more mellow.

I've had both...and had both with the same kid. (I did mention my Golden earlier in the thread, by the way.) My Lab was a lot more hyper than my Golden ever was. He was also a male. I also adopted him at age two and had the female Golden from birth. The Golden met my daughter when she was elderly; the Lab met her when he was young and frisky (at age 2). Still...my Lab had hyper tendencies. My Golden never did. When she was young she was energetic and fun and a definite handful, but she didn't run in circles, getting herself all worked up the way the Lab would. He was a law unto himself!!!

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

Also, the study is on the money for me, in that my dog can occasionally be a little skittish with other dogs. I think some of that is due to being attacked three separate times while I walked him through the neighborhood (dogs getting loose from the house or yard. ) Scared the bejesus out of both of us, and I think it made him wary of other dogs.

Stupid dogs attacked Biscuit, too!!! Often really tiny ones. Although Biscuit defended our front door, he never retaliated against the attacks of other dogs unless a big dog seemed like a real threat in which case he would simply snap-not bite-to warn off the other dog. As you can see, Biscuit was huge and never had anything to fear from another dog. His muzzle was enormous and his teeth were like a shark's. But he had zero aggression towards other dogs. I always kept him on a short leash when I walked him at the beach so as not to alarm others. When another dog owner, restraining a small dog who would be pulling her towards us, would look fearful I'd reassure her. I'd always say, "Don't worry. He won't bite." And then she's say, "But Mitzi will!" about some tiny little thing the size of a mouse!!!

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

Yes! Yay for labs!

This our very supple hound, Sonny. This is one of the more comfortable looking positions he contorts himself into. Seriously, he's like a cat: no spine. I've never seen a big dog twist like him.

He's a delightful indoor dog for a big one. Calm as dirt and well-mannered - except for the occasional attempt to get up on the sofa. He'd be on the bed like a shot too, if we let him.

Sonny looks very silky and adorable. I'd be down on the floor with him right now! You're very lucky!!!

Deb

 

[junebug17]

I'm loving all these lab pics! Deb and ksinger, your doggies just make me melt!

Deb, little dogs are constantly trying to start something with my dog! It's actually kind of funny...these tiny pooches chomping at the bit to mix it up with a 90 pound lab!

I love goldens as well...there is one a few doors down from me and she is just so sweet and friendly. That's an interesting observation about goldens and cancer though, DF, and so sad.