Gulf of Mexico ------>>>>>> Gulf of America

[Lookinagain]

You must not have heard how some popular social media sites were strong armed and some simply went along with the wishes of the "party".

I've heard that said, but social media companies are still private and not bound by the First Amendment. They are free to either succumb to the strong arming, or not. Strong arming them has been happening recently as well. But they are free to restrict speech if they choose to. Not so the government unless that speech falls into one of the exceptions, like child pornography, libel, "fighting words" etc.

 

[Tigerlilyrosepetal]

I agree with you and yet what stuck me first about this post is the resentment towards Americans. It’s really sad. But people will take our aid and support, especially military support if they ever were threatened. I served and have children who do.
For me to hear people bash America (being critical is another thing as it sparks thought and is welcome to democracy), by our “allies” in other countries, is so tough and when we would stand up and help others where needed.

I was really hoping someone-who was making disparaging America comments and was from an ally country-would reply to this post and say “yeah, we wouldn’t want your help” because we have such strong ideological issues for how you acquired your power.

But no one has. Hmmmmm

 

[Ella]

Folks I recognize the line is thin here but no overtly political posts, links, or comments criticizing or praising particular politicians or administrations (US or otherwise.) I've gotten so many reports about this thread, please do not make me close it.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Im no defender of the prior administration but if it was a dictatorship, how did we vote it out?
If you believe the words he told us. Dictator on day one
Never need to vote again

Were you watching TV on 1/6?

Oh, good grief. We voted him in so he's not a dictator and he has said previously this is his last four years. Yes, he does use humor, but I think he should stick to simple, straight sentences because so many people want to misinterpret the first thing they can grab.

 

[Tigerlilyrosepetal]

Folks I recognize the line is thin here but no overtly political posts, links, or comments criticizing or praising particular politicians or administrations (US or otherwise.) I've gotten so many reports about this thread, please do not make me close it.

Thanks @Ella for the reminder. I personally have been very engaged in hearing others’ ideas. I have stayed away from politics on this thread and generally do in life too.

For me, what’s so provoking was reading the disparaging comments about America from our ally country friends, that have arisen from this whole Gulf naming thing. I could personally care less what it’s called or not. But the vitriol is shocking.

I hope that we keep this thread open. I really take umbrage at being disparaged as a country by the same people who would benefit and greatly accept help by Americans.


.

Folks I recognize the line is thin here but no overtly political posts, links, or comments criticizing or praising particular politicians or administrations (US or otherwise.) I've gotten so many reports about this thread, please do not make me close it.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I’m a former Tesla owner. Spoke from experience. The car farts. Woo hoo. But it’s built like crap. Currently driving a BMW Ix. A real car. Doesn’t fart but built much better

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Well, again, just to be accurate, as the country expanded beyond the original 13 colonies, some of the newer states were also slave states. Missouri was one. It was given statehood as a slave state and the quid pro quo was that Maine (formerly part of Massachusetts) would be admitted as a free state.

I think there was one slave in Montana too but that could be a rumor. (Tongue in cheek).

If with your addition of two more states, there is far more of the USA that didn't have any part of hiring slaves and deplored the idea.

Oddly enough, Delaware was the longest slavery holding state.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

I’m a former Tesla owner. Spoke from experience. The car farts. Woo hoo. But it’s built like crap. Currently driving a BMW Ix. A real car. Doesn’t fart but built much better

So many love their Tesla's. So you bought an product that needed to be imported, may I ask what fees were associated with that importation? Curious and I'll understand if you don't want to share.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

I doubt you have nearly as much scorn over Joe as I do.
His Justice Department was so incorruptible they prosecuted the son of POTUS. The MORON didn’t have the sense to answer “No comment “ instead of “I will not pardon my son”.
Tax evasion and lying on a gun form. That’s the big criminal - and the taxes were paid.
Stupidity
I just don’t see how that compares to what we’re facing now.

I suggest searching a little harder. There was and is so much corruption there and what are you facing now?

The United States of America is drowning in debt, the bloated pig needs to go. Yes, this is urgent. We cannot stand as a nation without industry and need people making their wages off legitimate jobs rather that feeding off disposable government positions.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

The sources I've found vary a bit but it seems the USA is about 5%(?) of the world's population but consumes about 25%(?) of the world's resources.

I didn't do any big research project but was unable to find what percentage of those resources come from other countries, as opposed to actually being from the USA. Does anyone know or have solid sources for the estimates on this issue?

China and India have the largest populations and China is working diligently to align with India.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I’m also grateful for the opportunity to discuss. Apologies to Ella for all the work.

The United States of America is drowning in debt, the bloated pig needs to go.

We’re all trying to “play nice” and I appreciate that too. My point is that your comments could easily be seen as bashing America. I think we all want the best for our country. We just see different ways of getting there.

 

[JPie]

Hi @JPie,
I out of curiosity, is there anything that you are proud of that America stands for?

Black resistance and organizing. I don’t think that America stands for it per se, but it is something born of necessity thanks to institutionalized racism that’s always been the backbone of this country.

 

[Rockdiamond]

So many love their Tesla's. So you bought an product that needed to be imported, may I ask what fees were associated with that importation? Curious and I'll understand if you don't want to share.

Don’t mind at all!
The BMW iX is an all electric model. Expensive- but the lease rates make it relatively affordable. I have leased many cars- both domestic and imported. When you go to get the lease, you’re quoted a price. I’ve never had any additional fee ( other than a higher price) for an imported car.
When we leased the Tesla Model Y in 2020 the company was easy to deal with.
By 2023 things had drastically changed. There are no customer service reps. None. You’re advised ( taped message when you call) to go online to seek answers- or try an online forum.
This is to say nothing of the behavior of Musk.
Can we agree that he is not concerned about how his words insult others?
Michael Jordan once said “ I want to sell sneakers to Republicans too”
That sentiment is sorely lacking in his behavior.
It’s just common sense that many Tesla buyers are left leaning- and no longer comfortable with their purchases. For sure future Tesla sales are limited by his actions and comments.
Does the fact he gets billions in government subsidies/ contracts at all bother you in terms of his conflicts of interest???

And after 3 years of driving the car was really falling apart and would not hold a charge. So there was that too.

 

[Lookinagain]

Don’t mind at all!
The BMW iX is an all electric model. Expensive- but the lease rates make it relatively affordable. I have leased many cars- both domestic and imported. When you go to get the lease, you’re quoted a price. I’ve never had any additional fee ( other than a higher price) for an imported car.
When we leased the Tesla Model Y in 2020 the company was easy to deal with.
By 2023 things had drastically changed. There are no customer service reps. None. You’re advised ( taped message when you call) to go online to seek answers- or try an online forum.
This is to say nothing of the behavior of Musk.
Can we agree that he is not concerned about how his words insult others?
Michael Jordan once said “ I want to sell sneakers to Republicans too”
That sentiment is sorely lacking in his behavior.
It’s just common sense that many Tesla buyers are left leaning- and no longer comfortable with their purchases. For sure future Tesla sales are limited by his actions and comments.
Does the fact he gets billions in government subsidies/ contracts at all bother you in terms of his conflicts of interest???

And after 3 years of driving the car was really falling apart and would not hold a charge. So there was that too.

Aren't some Tesla's made in China? I thought they had a plant there.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Aren't some Tesla's made in China? I thought they had a plant there.

Yes he’s heavily invested there. But we’re arguing about the name of a body of water. It’s so effective- obviously

 

[Avondale]

I was making observations about that the act of naming implies or can make people think of ownership or dominion

And in making that observation you revealed that this is how you view it. But you're misinterpreting the situation.

You keep talking about resentment, yet I am clueless as to where exactly you saw resentment, either in my comment, or in any that were written before it. At worst there's been mockery. Well deserved, mind you. It seems that you believe the renaming within the US is somehow perceived as something massive and important outside the US. Believe me, the only thing it is perceived as is a circus - an inconsequential spectacle, and I already explained why. It is only a matter of time before you have a new administration which will repeal the executive order and with that the renaming of the gulf will remain one of those odd historical trivia facts that line right next to "did you know that in state/country X there is a law from 1793 that says it is illegal to carry a chicken in the back pocket of your jeans?" (Just to be clear, that's not true, I just made that up. And if it is true somewhere in the world, well, that was one hell of a coincidence.)

My personal opinion of the renaming of the gulf? It was already said by some people before me in this thread - it's a distraction meant to draw public attention away from whatever of much higher importance is currently going on over there. The gulf is literally nobody's problem.

 

[Rockdiamond]

It is only a matter of time before you have a new administration which will repeal the executive order and with that the renaming of the gulf will remain one of those odd historical trivia facts

How I hope this is true. Based on what we’re looking at, the people now in power are never going to willingly relinquish it.
Regardless- even if another peaceful transfer of power does occur ( doubtful at this point), the US will never again have credibility.

 

[Avondale]

Yes, we should pay the VAT for imports (we already pay sales taxes) too

To clarify, America should only apply VAT to imports into America for leveling purposes.

Your statements suggest a wrong idea about how VAT works.

To start, VAT is just a name. You have your equivalent in sales tax. Actually, does sales tax apply to services as well? Because if not, then it would not be quite equivalent, but the idea remains the same.

If you want your country to collect sales tax on imported goods, too - I mean, okay. The EU did something similar with VAT several years ago, we used to have a rule that VAT was not owed for low value imports (think 20-30 euro, something of the sort). Then that rule was abolished and now VAT is payable for every import.

So if you want to do the same, you have to collect sales tax on all imported goods.

But you cannot collect VAT on imported goods only. Because then it wouldn't be VAT. By definition, VAT is something much more universal. The proper term for taxes on imports specifically is duties and tariffs.

 

[Lookinagain]

But you cannot collect VAT on imported goods only. Because then it wouldn't be VAT. By definition, VAT is something much more universal. The proper term for taxes on imports specifically is duties and tariffs.

That's what I've been trying to say. Thanks.

 

[Rockdiamond]

To clarify, America should only apply VAT to imports into America for leveling purposes.

What you’re suggesting here is just more taxes which will increase inflation and harm normal working Americans.
Do you use Amazon? Any idea how many of the products you buy are either imported or contain part that are imported?
Are you in favor and f higher taxes?
Sadly, the US gave away much of its manufacturing power over the past 40 years. Under both Republican and Democratic leadership. The people really in charge only care about making money. No matter how.

 

[Tigerlilyrosepetal]

And in making that observation you revealed that this is how you view it. But you're misinterpreting the situation.

You keep talking about resentment, yet I am clueless as to where exactly you saw resentment, either in my comment, or in any that were written before it. At worst there's been mockery. Well deserved, mind you. It seems that you believe the renaming within the US is somehow perceived as something massive and important outside the US. Believe me, the only thing it is perceived as is a circus - an inconsequential spectacle, and I already explained why. It is only a matter of time before you have a new administration which will repeal the executive order and with that the renaming of the gulf will remain one of those odd historical trivia facts that line right next to "did you know that in state/country X there is a law from 1793 that says it is illegal to carry a chicken in the back pocket of your jeans?" (Just to be clear, that's not true, I just made that up. And if it is true somewhere in the world, well, that was one hell of a coincidence.)

My personal opinion of the renaming of the gulf? It was already said by some people before me in this thread - it's a distraction meant to draw public attention away from whatever of much higher importance is currently going on over there. The gulf is literally nobody's problem.

And in making that observation you revealed that this is how you view it. But you're misinterpreting the situation.

You keep talking about resentment, yet I am clueless as to where exactly you saw resentment, either in my comment, or in any that were written before it. At worst there's been mockery. Well deserved, mind you. It seems that you believe the renaming within the US is somehow perceived as something massive and important outside the US. Believe me, the only thing it is perceived as is a circus - an inconsequential spectacle, and I already explained why. It is only a matter of time before you have a new administration which will repeal the executive order and with that the renaming of the gulf will remain one of those odd historical trivia facts that line right next to "did you know that in state/country X there is a law from 1793 that says it is illegal to carry a chicken in the back pocket of your jeans?" (Just to be clear, that's not true, I just made that up. And if it is true somewhere in the world, well, that was one hell of a coincidence.)

My personal opinion of the renaming of the gulf? It was already said by some people before me in this thread - it's a distraction meant to draw public attention away from whatever of much higher importance is currently going on over there. The gulf is literally nobody's problem.

@Avondale it seems there’s a lot of assumptions and misinterpretations in your post about me and my views. Maybe over a lovely cup of tea (you are British, right?) we could discuss further and have a sensible and intelligent conversation with ideas leading somewhere productive. I feel that’s not going to happen with you on this thread, so I’ll leave your comments alone.

Although the one about the chicken is funny.

 

[missy]

@Avondale it seems there’s a lot of assumptions and misinterpretations in your post about me and my views. Maybe over a lovely cup of tea (you are British, right?) we could discuss further and have a sensible and intelligent conversation with ideas leading somewhere productive. I feel that’s not going to happen with you on this thread, so I’ll leave your comments alone.

Although the one about the chicken is funny.

I think I get what you mean..People do want to come here to live...why? Because in the USA you can obtain the "American Dream"
The idea of upward mobility and opportunity in the US. And that can be a source of envy for some people in other countries. I am not saying PSers who are outside of the USA are jealous of us but many people do want to move here precisely because here you can make dreams come true. Not all countries offer those opportunities.

 

[missy]

My personal opinion of the renaming of the gulf? It was already said by some people before me in this thread - it's a distraction meant to draw public attention away from whatever of much higher importance is currently going on over there. The gulf is literally nobody's problem.

Exactly. So we shouldn't play into their hands. Let's take the focus off something that is not critical and focus on what is. Let's not take the bait

 

[Avondale]

How I hope this is true. Based on what we’re looking at, the people now in power are never going to willingly relinquish it.
Regardless- even if another peaceful transfer of power does occur ( doubtful at this point), the US will never again have credibility.

C'mon, now. Not saying your concerns aren't valid. You live there, you're sure to posses a much more comprehensive view of the situation than I do. But for the current administration to attempt to pull a true dictatorship act... it could end up being a literal suicide. It would make much more sense for them to make the most of the 4 years they have now and be done with it. What "making the most" means exactly is a subject of a different discussion, but looking at it logically - they have nothing to lose, even if they were to run the entire country into the ground. Trump cannot become president a third time so worrying about the public opinion is probably the last of his concerns right now.

 

[missy]

Trump cannot become president a third time so worrying about the public opinion is probably the last of his concerns right now.

But he should be concerned about doing an excellent job or in 4 years the dems will be back in power. So to that end it does matter greatly. How he does and unfortunately how he is perceived. Perception is everything. And he is not the best at giving himself a good public image because he doesn't give a cra* about his public image. Unlike all the presidents before him. And public image is, IMO, important

 

[Rockdiamond]

Oh, good grief. We voted him in so he's not a dictator

Going back to critical thinking:
In a dictatorship people can not choose a new leader. USA just chose a new leader.
There was no dictatorship.
Now?
I don’t recall any US leading “joking” about being a dictator, anytime in our history. Can we at least agree that a “joke” can truly put people ill at ease?

 

[Rockdiamond]

C'mon, now. Not saying your concerns aren't valid

Just look at the news. None of this is “normal”
The world’s richest man , unelected and seemingly unhinged is allowed to run roughshod over our government. He’s actually the most dangerous person. But it’s all very bad, unpredictable, unprecedented….
The US telling Europe we no longer stand as allies???. This is not ok

I pray I’m totally off base

 

[Lookinagain]

But he should be concerned about doing an excellent job or in 4 years the dems will be back in power

Even the mid-terms may change the dynamic to some degree.

 

[missy]

Even the mid-terms may change the dynamic to some degree.

Exactly. It all matters

 

[Rockdiamond]

Even the mid-terms may change the dynamic to some degree.

He spent 45 billion buying twitter to get his way. You don’t think he’s finding or found ways to fix future elections?
He’s not going to let himself lose.
Imagine if the devil himself ( George Soros) did even 1% of what Musk has done.