Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB please

[violetjane]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Thank you all who've offered kind and thoughtful responses, they all contain some really helpful insights and supportive ideas, which is what I was looking for , thank you.

To those who feel its some shortcoming of my fiancee, or that he is somehow not "manning up." I Have explained in several ways how that's not the case, and that he has, in fact, on several occasions, been very assertive with his family on his own and on my behalf. He is a wonderful person and its not his fault his family is highly dysfunctional, he's actually an anomaly in his family in that he deals with situations assertively, takes ownership, and tries to facilitate communication, these are only a few of the reasons why I lvoe and respect him. I'm not going to spend any more time responding to nasty comments about him or his character, particularly since I've already clarified its nothing he's to blame for. I've also explained that I don't have any issues with hsi family having a relationship with his ex, so I'm not going to be painted with that brush either. I suggest you actually read my posts which do clarify that, multiple times.

I feel I've gotten some good thoughts and between the helpful, positive input and my own sense of how to manage things, I'll continue to behave like a grown up and let them have their mean girls party. We can at least have the peace of mind knowing our behavior is mature and will be as exemplary as can be to his kids, who are teens and impressionable. We want them to see how healthy people handle negative, spiteful, passive aggressive behavior, which is to ignore whatever is ignorable, and be firm and assertive about how we will and won't be treated with behavior that isn't ignorable. I can ignore them not inviting me to an event thats mom , sisters and other SIL ( which is what this was.) It does sting, but honestly, if this is the kind of people they are, I asked myself, do I even WANT to be part of that group? And the answer is no. In fact, HELL no, lol.

As far as confronting and taking a combative stance, I'll leave that for the Jerry Springer types, that's not me.

Be well and thanks again!

 

[ame]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

I also would encourage your fiancée to sit with his parents and explain that you want to have a relationship with them. It's fine if they are close to the ex, that's good for the kids. But it has to be a separate relationship than what you and your fiancée have with them.
Your fiancée will also, have to help facilitate the relationship you have with his kids. That is something that will evolve over time but he can help greatly with that.

Although if it were me, I would want my fiancée to be firm with his family members that you two are a couple, love each other, and they have the option of accepting that or not. If they choose to not accept, then forget about them. Go your merry way, establish your family unit with your fiancée, his kids, your kids. At some point, I'd wager his family would come round. There is nobility in turning the other cheek and trying to be the better person, but there is also no point in dishonoring yourself by being their doormat.

 

[ame]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

I kinda feel this is his mess and you are stuck holding the bag.

I'm not a second wife. But in reading your narrative it sounds like everyone is blaming you for his choices, and he's letting them.

It's all well and good to say "turn the other cheek" when YOU aren't the one being attacked.

But when you are using at an excuse to not take accountability for the mess YOU'VE caused, and sorry but that's what your husband appears to be doing, that's not cool. That's cowardly.

Frankly, they are his family. It is his ex-wife. And he isn't standing up for you.

And that's not okay. I don't think there is anything you can do. He just needs to find a pair and fix this mess. Which is now INCIDENTALLY WORSE, since it has gone of for so long, than it WOULD HAVE BEEN if he's stepped up in the first place and said, "You have a problem with this, then you take it out on ME. I am an adult and make my own decisions and I own them. No one makes me do anything I don't want to do. So stop blaming wife #2 because she is a convenient scape goat."

But he didn't do that, did he?

And he has you buying into his lack of courage and taking the abuse from his ex AND his family.. I'd wake up if I were you and have a serious talk with your "wonderful" second husband.

Agree with this also. Because what if he one day feels the same way about your marriage as he did about his first one? What if she really wasn't as bad as he says she was, and he's the one that just up and bailed, and left her hurt and confused?

 

[violetjane]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

No advice Violet, just a ::HUG::

Family dynamics can be so difficult to navigate sometimes I'm sorry you're in this position, but I too admire your restraint! I very much hope his family comes to accept you as his partner, and as a wonderful addition to the family in your own right!!

Thanks Yssie you're a sweetheart

 

[violetjane]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Unfortunately, you can't force people to like someone and you also can't tell grown adults who they can or can't speak about in your presence. Relationships (like the mother-in-law/daughter-in-law) aren't just something that you turn on and off like a switch, so just because a couple gets divorced, doesn't mean that all of the relationships have to end. He could still "move on" even though they maintain a relationship with his ex. In fact, the ultimate test of moving on would be to be completely okay with the fact that your ex is still friends with some of your family because it shows that you are content in your life and your choices. I am very close to my mother-in-law and if DH and I divorced, my MIL and I would probably still be good friends and if my DH didn't like it, that would be his problem not mine. I would say that as long as the family is not intentionally making anyone's life miserable, let it be. Move on, be happy, and don't worry about their relationship with her.

Thanks for the comments.. I feel like some things have been misunderstood-

- they don't talk about his ex with me or in front of me, and if they did i don't mind at all. I have no issue with them having a relationship with her, of course they do, it doesn't matter to me if they do or don't.

-they are intentially doing things to be exclusive of me, and of their brother, that's the part that hurts.

-im not expecting or asking them to 1) not be friendly with her 2) be overly friendly with me, I just would like them to treat me the way they treat everyone else, with consideration and kindness.

None of that is much to ask for, in my opinion. So I don't want there to be an impression I'm bitter that they might have a close relationship with her, I honestly couldn't care less- in fact my whole point is , they didn't have to "choose" , but they were put in the position to choose, and not by me. And it stinks and that's what I was trying to get across.

Thanks for clarifying. I wonder, though, are they intentionally excluding you or does it just feel that way? I would assume that an ex normally wouldn't be invited to something because it would be awkward and since they've maintained a relationship with her, obviously, they continue to do things together. Am I making sense? I'm trying to be gentle, but I'm also trying to help you see the big picture. I know it sucks for you and it really does sound like you've been treated unfairly to a degree - but it also sounds like your situation is fairly normal in terms of how things can progress after a divorce.

As to your last part, that is great food for thought- as a psychologist I like to think i'm self observing, and try to see things objectively as i can, but I can certainly try harder to do that

 

[violetjane]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

... To clarify, my FI is great- he has been very forthcoming with his family, the ones that are awful to me are awful to him too- they're a strange family and are competative and put a lot of pressure and judgement on each other- so I think alot of it stems from them being upset with him for wanting the divorce, although no one but him had to live in that marriage. So its not a matter of him not standing up for me. They're just catty and exclusive and very 'you're one of us or you're not." ...

Violetjane,

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.

It can be very hurtful and upsetting to have others exclude us or be nasty towards us. Being a psychologist doesn't mean you're immune to human emotions. You have a wonderful FI and, of course, you'd like his family to welcome you with open arms or at least be pleasant. Unfortunately, we don't always get what we want, and it takes more than one side of a relationship to make a change; you can't alter this situation if your FI's family doesn't want to change or sees no reason to change.

My Mother once told me to always consider the source. And, I'm sure you know that a question can reveal more about the person asking the question than any answer provided by the person being asked. You mentioned that your FI's family is rude to him and, in the quoted section above, you describe his family (or some of them) as competitive and putting a lot of pressure and judgement on each other.

Is it likely that they'll change who they are?

Does their approval matter to you because you respect them as individuals?

Or do you just wish there was acceptance and a pleasant relationship because they're your FI's family?

I suspect its the last case. The sad fact is that they may be showing you exactly what kind of people they are and, unless they decide they need to change, there is little you can do except continue to be pleasant and considerate.

I wish that weren't true, but I've found that trying to influence or change a person's fundamental characteristics (such as consideration or compassion) is merely an exercise in frustration.

You might want to reconsider your expectations regarding the kind of relationship you'll have with your future in-laws. Take a step back emotionally, continue to be true to yourself and treat them with consideration, but remember that whether or not they come around is a reflection on them not you.

By the way, you and your FI are to be commended for putting the interests of your children first. You both sound like caring, responsible individuals and I'm so glad you've found each other.

Hi DF

thank you, this is so thoughtful and you have some great insights ( as does your mom ! )... you really hit the nail on the head- no, they are very unlikely to change, no, their approval really and truly does not matter to me, and yes, I wanted and hoped for a pleasant, amicable relationship, mainly for his sake and so that as we have family events ( namely his kids' grads and weddings) it would be 'normal'. It won't be that way- his daughter graduated this past june and it was awful, his ex wouldn't interact with us, the kids clearly felt totally caught in the middle ( not by me or him, neither of us have any problem saying hello ro being friendly, she just won't acknwledge my existance at all and makes everyone else feel uncomfortable to be seen talking to us).. it's completely screwed up. I will say I wish he put his foot down more with her, as its her who's pulling this stuff at family gatherings but he just does not want anything to do with her, even to call her out on her BS. It's a pain but I really just feel sorry for the kids in all of this.

 

[House Cat]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

So many hugs. It does seem like something is going on, but I can't put my finger on it.

If I had to guess...

It could be that this is a group of mean girls. If the ex is as bad as your FI says, then why would the rest of the family even be attracted to her personality in the first place? Because they have something inside of them that relates to her in some way.

I mean, who in the world just doesn't even speak to their brother's new fiancee? Who does that???

Mean people do that.

Mean people use their tactics to put others in a position of begging for their approval. Don't do it! That is when they have all of the power.

Photos on the internet of their fantastic time together! I bet the ex loved that! This is all crappy.

How do you win?? You stop playing. You drop the rope. You take all of the advice that tells you to hold your head high and live your life to the fullest. When you see them, be as kind as possible to each one of them. Be your best self at all times. This is called "keeping your side of the street clean." This is how you stay proud of yourself. This is how you maintain integrity in such a toxic environment. This is how you cope. This is how you will always be able to gut check and know, it was never, ever you.

If it were me with facebook, I would block all of those people from my feed, not unfriend, but unfollow, and I would never, ever peek. It is very freeing to do this for yourself (believe me!) What you don't see, can't hurt you. Imagine if you hadn't seen this cooking class outing. You would be going about your day without this on your mind.

Draw boundaries, protect yourself, smile, be kind, have class, be everything that ex is not, be yourself, and screw them!

Big hugs again!

 

[sunseeker101]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Hello again. I understand a lot more about you and your fiance's position and all I can say (and I suspect you know this already) is that the pair of you likely constitute the only positive right-minded influence for his children anywhere in the miserable melange you describe. I think I understand the nature of what stings here, it's that your natural definition of doing your best is to create harmony between people and these people are strangely resistant to any normal call. How can they seem to thrive on causing hurt, unhappiness and trapping a couple of impressionable teenagers in it? The answer must be non-ending bitter selfishness and lack of perspective, the kind of situation people like yourself and your H2b can't support and naturally oppose (by existing ) Anyway, the best of luck.

 

[Laila619]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

I kinda feel this is his mess and you are stuck holding the bag.

I'm not a second wife. But in reading your narrative it sounds like everyone is blaming you for his choices, and he's letting them.

It's all well and good to say "turn the other cheek" when YOU aren't the one being attacked.

But when you are using at an excuse to not take accountability for the mess YOU'VE caused, and sorry but that's what your husband appears to be doing, that's not cool. That's cowardly.

Frankly, they are his family. It is his ex-wife. And he isn't standing up for you.

And that's not okay. I don't think there is anything you can do. He just needs to find a pair and fix this mess. Which is now INCIDENTALLY WORSE, since it has gone of for so long, than it WOULD HAVE BEEN if he's stepped up in the first place and said, "You have a problem with this, then you take it out on ME. I am an adult and make my own decisions and I own them. No one makes me do anything I don't want to do. So stop blaming wife #2 because she is a convenient scape goat."

But he didn't do that, did he?

And he has you buying into his lack of courage and taking the abuse from his ex AND his family.. I'd wake up if I were you and have a serious talk with your "wonderful" second husband.

Agree with this also. Because what if he one day feels the same way about your marriage as he did about his first one? What if she really wasn't as bad as he says she was, and he's the one that just up and bailed, and left her hurt and confused?

Yep. I do feel for you, Violetjane! You seem like a very nice person. But I also feel for the ex-wife. She didn't want to get divorced, but he just left her anyway. That has to hurt. I can't imagine being in that position.

 

[LLJsmom]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Violetjane. I am so sorry you are going through this. I'll be brief. Life is too short to waste your time on toxic people. You've tried. You have done your best and you can sleep at night. Cut out the toxic people. Stop going to family gatherings if you know you will be treated rudely and unkindly. This is not your issue. Certain people are negative and bring people down. You have a choice to put yourself in their company or not to. Let your FI attend these family events on his own. You'll be happier you didn't voluntarily go to be abused. And be sure you want to deal with a lifetime of this. People don't change. I've seen 44 years of this in my family.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

I feel the need to follow up on this.

Is there some reason that his family may blame you for the break up of the marriage?

Here's the reason I ask:

It is hard to stay mad at the ones you love. Even when they deserve it. ESPECIALLY, I believe if you are their parent, because you may (for selfish reasons, either consciously or unconsciously) have to take a hard look at their faults, and you might see you have in some way contributed to them. Same thing as a wife.

As an example (and I am not in any way saying this is what happened in your FI's first marriage this is just to show my point) when spouses cheat you often hear their spouse demonize the 'other' person INSTEAD of railing and blaming their cheating partner. Why is this? The SPOUSE was the one who broke their vow, a vow THEY had a duty to uphold, NOT the 'other' person. But it is much easier to hate a person you don't love than it is to hate someone you love or loved. So they displace all that anger onto the 'other' instead of placing it where it belongs: on the person who had the duty to uphold the vow.

So that very easily could be what is happening here. It is easier to blame you, hate you, abuse you than it is to put the blame on the person they are truly angry with: their ex-husband, their brother, their child, their FATHER. You are convenient.

And that's why I said said your FI has to take ownership of whatever happened, and has the duty TO YOU, to do so. Because you shouldn't be the scapegoat for his choices.

 

[violetjane]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

I feel the need to follow up on this.

Is there some reason that his family may blame you for the break up of the marriage?

Here's the reason I ask:

It is hard to stay mad at the ones you love. Even when they deserve it. ESPECIALLY, I believe if you are their parent, because you may (for selfish reasons, either consciously or unconsciously) have to take a hard look at their faults, and you might see you have in some way contributed to them. Same thing as a wife.

As an example (and I am not in any way saying this is what happened in your FI's first marriage this is just to show my point) when spouses cheat you often hear their spouse demonize the 'other' person INSTEAD of railing and blaming their cheating partner. Why is this? The SPOUSE was the one who broke their vow, a vow THEY had a duty to uphold, NOT the 'other' person. But it is much easier to hate a person you don't love than it is to hate someone you love or loved. So they displace all that anger onto the 'other' instead of placing it where it belongs: on the person who had the duty to uphold the vow.

So that very easily could be what is happening here. It is easier to blame you, hate you, abuse you than it is to put the blame on the person they are truly angry with: their ex-husband, their brother, their child, their FATHER. You are convenient.

And that's why I said said your FI has to take ownership of whatever happened, and has the duty TO YOU, to do so. Because you shouldn't be the scapegoat for his choices.

First, Gypsy, thank you for the response, I think you have some real insight into the situation and your viewpoint makes sense, and is essentially what I've thought for years.

His ex wife ( again, I am not bashing her but stating the facts for context here) either really did believe he left for another woman or some other nefarious reason) or maybe she didnt necessarily believe it , but she did advance that story, specifically to his family and friends. Her ego was crushed and I think this was how she both tried to save her own self esteem and to 'get back ' at him. All I know is what I've seen and heard, and from what I've seen and heard, there were many toxic elements to the marriage and he wanted to leave for years because she showed no willingness to work on the issues, that's all I know. He was unhappy, told her often, tried counseling, didn't work, divorce.

everything else you say is quite true. I should also say ( and maybe even add to my OP so this isn't misunderstood, that largely, most of his family is polite to my face, and a few of them are genuinely nice. Its mainly one sister, one brother, and that brother's wife who are really, really awful and frankly holding everyone else back , I beleive. I think the one sister ( oldest) is the reason they did not invite me in the cooking class.

I've gotten really thoughtful advice here and I will deal with it, beccause i have to. And my fiancee has handled it as well as he can, he has stood up for himself and for me, but to no avail so at this point he feels like, why bother, which i get.

Also, what can you do when people choose to believe rumors and innuendo, particularly when they never actually openly say it to your face? Its a really tough situation but we're trying our best. Even though i understood his ex was mad and wanted to get back at him, it's affected me horribly and it makes me really angry, and there's nothing I can do which is the worst part.

Over the past 2 years on a couple of occasions i sent her a short but very friendly and empathic email, basically showing admiration for her as a mother ( kind of a lie, but trying to repair), and essentially said, I know things have been hard but let's try and be amicable for the kids ( her kids ) sake- never had a word of response to either.

All I can say is, remarriage and all that goes with it brings a whole new set of things you never think of to the table.

Thanks again for your thoughts, I appreciate it.

 

[violetjane]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Violetjane. I am so sorry you are going through this. I'll be brief. Life is too short to waste your time on toxic people. You've tried. You have done your best and you can sleep at night. Cut out the toxic people. Stop going to family gatherings if you know you will be treated rudely and unkindly. This is not your issue. Certain people are negative and bring people down. You have a choice to put yourself in their company or not to. Let your FI attend these family events on his own. You'll be happier you didn't voluntarily go to be abused. And be sure you want to deal with a lifetime of this. People don't change. I've seen 44 years of this in my family.

Thanks, LLJs mom,

I have cycled through these thoughts too, and there was a time or two where I didn't go, i just didn't have the energy. It has drawn on all of my ability to act like an adult, I can tell you that

In general I'm a very warm, friendly person and I like the complete opposite of drama, and so this situation contains all kinds of elements I dislike, and I don't want to play the game. It really and truly is an energy zapper.

It's kind of funny bc I have people in my practice with family drama issues that I can so easily contemplate, and 'see' solutions for but when it's you and there are feelings involved its so much harder . we're going over to his mom and dad's for st p's day tomorrow ( big irish family) so fingers crossed, maybe this time will be relatively uneventful.

 

[missy]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Hi Violetjane, I am so sorry you are going through this difficult and challenging situation and you have received some excellent advice here. I don't want to go into details but I have dealt with a similar but not exactly the same situation and what worked for us was my (bf at the time) dh telling his mother (and brother/SIL) that I was in his life for good and if they wanted to remain a part of our (and his) life they would have to start treating me civilly and with respect. And if they couldn't then they would no longer be a part of our life. Short and sweet and it did the trick because he meant it and they knew it.


That was the turning point for my relationship with them. But my dh had to be the one to say it (and he did it all on his own I had no clue that he was going to say what he said when he said it) and his mother really did a turn around. That was 17 years ago and now we have a lovely relationship (my MIL and I) and while it took time to develop the turning point was when my dh said what he did to her about if she wanted to stay in his life she better treat me well. Sure as they get to know you things will improve but right now they could use a little push from your FI IMO.

It was due to similar circumstances as their loyalties were with someone else when I came into the picture so to speak so that is why I can relate and believe me it was a very difficult and challenging period in our lives. Fortunately no children were involved but because there are children involved in your case it is even that more dire IMO that your FI nip this in the proverbial bud.

Good luck and congratulations on your upcoming nuptials. Wishing you all the best.


ETA: Just wanted to add that my SIL (my dh's brother's wife) and I do not have a relationship to this day. When my SIL realized my dh was serious about what he said she tried but her NPD and nastiness just couldn't be hidden for long and her cattiness came through so unfortunately now we don't speak though we tried. We see my dh's brother and my niece and nephew as they come to NYC and visit us (they live in another state) but my SIL doesn't visit. To this day my dh and I have not spoken with her for many many years. I don't feel badly about it as she is not a nice person and I believe in freeing oneself from negativity and negative people in one's life for emotional and physical well being.

I add this to point out that you may not be able to have a relationship with everyone but at least you can figure out who is worth having a relationship with at all and I believe your FI needs to really take the lead and be forceful and mean it. The meaning it part is critical. He cannot just say the words he has to mean them with all his heart. You (and your and his kids) should come first to him. Period.

(((HUGS))).

 

[violetjane]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Hi Violetjane, I am so sorry you are going through this difficult and challenging situation and you have received some excellent advice here. I don't want to go into details but I have dealt with a similar but not exactly the same situation and what worked for us was my (bf at the time) dh telling his mother (and brother/SIL) that I was in his life for good and if they wanted to remain a part of our (and his) life they would have to start treating me civilly and with respect. And if they couldn't then they would no longer be a part of our life. Short and sweet and it did the trick because he meant it and they knew it.


That was the turning point for my relationship with them. But my dh had to be the one to say it (and he did it all on his own I had no clue that he was going to say what he said when he said it) and his mother really did a turn around. That was 17 years ago and now we have a lovely relationship (my MIL and I) and while it took time to develop the turning point was when my dh said what he did to her about if she wanted to stay in his life she better treat me well. Sure as they get to know you things will improve but right now they could use a little push from your FI IMO.

It was due to similar circumstances as their loyalties were with someone else when I came into the picture so to speak so that is why I can relate and believe me it was a very difficult and challenging period in our lives. Fortunately no children were involved but because there are children involved in your case it is even that more dire IMO that your FI nip this in the proverbial bud.

Good luck and congratulations on your upcoming nuptials. Wishing you all the best.


ETA: Just wanted to add that my SIL (my dh's brother's wife) and I do not have a relationship to this day. When my SIL realized my dh was serious about what he said she tried but her NPD and nastiness just couldn't be hidden for long and her cattiness came through so unfortunately now we don't speak though we tried. We see my dh's brother and my niece and nephew as they come to NYC and visit us (they live in another state) but my SIL doesn't visit. To this day my dh and I have not spoken with her for many many years. I don't feel badly about it as she is not a nice person and I believe in freeing oneself from negativity and negative people in one's life for emotional and physical well being.

I add this to point out that you may not be able to have a relationship with everyone but at least you can figure out who is worth having a relationship with at all and I believe your FI needs to really take the lead and be forceful and mean it. The meaning it part is critical. He cannot just say the words he has to mean them with all his heart. You (and your and his kids) should come first to him. Period.

(((HUGS))).

wow, Missy, tu and I'm sorry for what you've dealt with as well. My ( soon to be ) DH also made a similar statement, in the form of an email, to the one sister who still remains very negative about us, and she has really 'bonded' since the divorce to the ex, which really escalated the whole thing, very screwed up. She doesn't talk to him now, at all, and they were very close at one time, so its very sad. She'll respond to me if i make small talk with her, but its very terse and everyone can see she loathes me, uncomfortable to say the least.

Funny, I have almost the same issue as you with the SIL also- classic mean girl, we live in a small , fairly affluent ( read, 'snooty lol" ) community and she was always the Queen Bee. She grew up with ex wife, then married my fiancee's brother. I'm telling you its like a soap opera in my town

I can't tell you how much i'd love it if we lived far away, and when our kids are off in college i'm sure we'll move. But for now , it feels like every family event is this minefield to navigate. Maybe I'll write a book or do some research on the subject someday. I'd love to blog on it but that would be kind of passive aggressive lol

 

[momhappy]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

You keep mentioning that you were not invited to the cooking class, but I have to ask, would you really expect to be? I hope that doesn't sound harsh, but honestly, I would assume they were just trying to avoid an awkward situation. In your particular situation (where the ex is bitter over the break up), I think what they did sounds pretty reasonable and you'd have to expect that they will spend a certain amount of time together. I have to agree with the others here in that it sounds like maybe there is more to this story than meets the eye. Although it might not be uncommon for family to remain friends with an ex, I would think that it might be fairly unusual for a family to side with an ex over their own family member unless they felt that the family member truly did something wrong. I wouldn't think that rumors wouldn't be enough to ostracize a family member - at least it wouldn't be for me. If they are siding with the ex simply based on her words/stories, then that's pretty sad and maybe their are some family issues at play here that have been in place long before you came along (which means that it's not you/your fault - they would likely be nasty to any one who he chose to have in his life after the ex).

 

[sunseeker101]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Hello yet again I see that your intended's family is Irish-American and I might be able to bring some of the cultural baggage of the situation into focus for you. I'll start by saying that divorce was legalized in Ireland in 1996. Even with that, the divorce rate is the lowest in Europe. It's not strictly relevant here but it indicates social attitudes that exist in the culture towards obligations relating to family. The greatest kind of moral crime someone can commit in Ireland is to break up their family (probably running a small marginal second to murder, I'm almost not joking!). But I'll say this, within the original culture there is also the understanding that to stay true to your commitment to your family you must be open-minded about resolving issues in the marriage, literally come hell or high water. In cases where the issues technically can not be resolved to everyone's satisfaction, a resigned acceptance and stoic approach is supposed to be the way you stick around to do your best for the children.

As far as I can understand it, it may be possible for Irish-Americans to inherit this unshakable belief that the family cannot and should not be broken up, no matter the emotional cost to the parents, without being culturally or emotionally prepared for what is basically the total sacrifice this requires. Betwixt and between, I can see how it's possible to end up with what effectively becomes an entitlement of the 'willing to settle' party to sit in an unresolved marriage without having a deeper commitment to keeping it sweet for the children on whose behalf they're doing it.

I'll make a guess and say part of the negativity (though none of this precludes your future in-laws from being any aspect of narcissistic of generally toxic for other reasons) your 2b is getting is related to bucking a cultural ideal, an important identifier for the family itself.

Though in general I'll say it takes a lot of something nasty to create waves with you. Then again, I suppose they're disparaging their own son over this, in a way that might mean they're holding to an identity ideal in such a way as to be closed-minded about the nature of your 2b's relationship with his ex-wife. After all, the cultural ideals of the old culture don't fit with modern concepts and ideals in America.

Anyway, I'm sure that's enough potential waffle from me. I hope it helps some. Best of luck

 

[violetjane]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Hello yet again I see that your intended's family is Irish-American and I might be able to bring some of the cultural baggage of the situation into focus for you. I'll start by saying that divorce was legalized in Ireland in 1996. Even with that, the divorce rate is the lowest in Europe. It's not strictly relevant here but it indicates social attitudes that exist in the culture towards obligations relating to family. The greatest kind of moral crime someone can commit in Ireland is to break up their family (probably running a small marginal second to murder, I'm almost not joking!). But I'll say this, within the original culture there is also the understanding that to stay true to your commitment to your family you must be open-minded about resolving issues in the marriage, literally come hell or high water. In cases where the issues technically can not be resolved to everyone's satisfaction, a resigned acceptance and stoic approach is supposed to be the way you stick around to do your best for the children.

As far as I can understand it, it may be possible for Irish-Americans to inherit this unshakable belief that the family cannot and should not be broken up, no matter the emotional cost to the parents, without being culturally or emotionally prepared for what is basically the total sacrifice this requires. Betwixt and between, I can see how it's possible to end up with what effectively becomes an entitlement of the 'willing to settle' party to sit in an unresolved marriage without having a deeper commitment to keeping it sweet for the children on whose behalf they're doing it.

I'll make a guess and say part of the negativity (though none of this precludes your future in-laws from being any aspect of narcissistic of generally toxic for other reasons) your 2b is getting is related to bucking a cultural ideal, an important identifier for the family itself.

Though in general I'll say it takes a lot of something nasty to create waves with you. Then again, I suppose they're disparaging their own son over this, in a way that might mean they're holding to an identity ideal in such a way as to be closed-minded about the nature of your 2b's relationship with his ex-wife. After all, the cultural ideals of the old culture don't fit with modern concepts and ideals in America.

Anyway, I'm sure that's enough potential waffle from me. I hope it helps some. Best of luck

This is actually one of most intelligent, salient summaries of my situation, and as a great intellectualizer I totally get it. As I think of the family and situation and apply this idea, it absolutely fits. That makes it much easier for me to swallow, and to be understanding towards them which helps me even further, because the more empathic I can be the easier it is for me emotionally. Yes, they are a big, totally old school Irish Catholic family, mom and dad have been married for 50 years, 9 kids, divorce is definitely not taken lightly. I really do feel for them in their wrestling over this, I do, however, believe wholeheartedly the ex wife knows all this and has totally exploited it, still does. She loves to play the victim and she loves to use their kids to maintain a sort of control of the family dynamic that I believe makes it really kind of impossible for them to integrate me and the idea of a new wife into the family.

At any rate, St P's day dinner with them was fine, again, some are nicer than others, some still completely ignore me, but that's ok. I'm learning to live with it and I do feel that in this case being a good person and a nice person, no matter how much some of them might snub me, is the right thing to do.

Thanks all for such good insight coming from many different directions

 

[blackprophet]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

I have to say I think momhappy hit it out of the park in this thread. As I read the thread I kept thinking "I would say this" and then MH would write it.

You wrote this:

...Funny, I have almost the same issue as you with the SIL also- classic mean girl, we live in a small , fairly affluent ( read, 'snooty lol" ) community and she was always the Queen Bee. She grew up with ex wife, then married my fiancee's brother. I'm telling you its like a soap opera in my town ...

And you are wondering why she is snooty to you (Other than the fact that she is not nice). She has a long standing established relationship with her. That's tough to compete with, regardless of how nice you are and how mean ex wife is. Same with the rest of the family. Unfortunately because of his kids, she will always be around and some of those people will need to maintain some sort of relationship with her.

I think what was alluded to ITT is the fact that your husband shouldn't only be standing up to you (which it sounds like he did) but explaining the full reasons for the divorce. It needs to be reinforced that he did what he did because he wanted to, and if anyone should be hated for that it should be him. I think it has to go beyond "you should like her because we are together" because that doesn't address the root of the problem IMO.

I think you should assume if it involves the ex, and not your FI, you will be excluded. That is not being catty, that is understandable, IMO. They have known her longer, that's a fact. Most of them treat you alright, and don't rub her in your face. I know you are struggling with your place in the family, that has a tendency to make things harder to deal with.

How long have you been with your FI? And how long were they married? Time may not heal all wounds, but it usually heals a lot of them.

 

[partgypsy]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Violetjane, I don't know what the timeline is, and maybe it's none of my business, but when did you meet your fiancé? Was it before or after he was divorced? If it was before the divorce was finalized, I could see (even if not justified) the family feeling you were a catalyst for the divorce. Do you know if there was any infidelity on his part, before they separated or were divorced?

In my case, my husband had an affair for 5 years, but instead of staying with that person, broke it off and started dating another person whom he calls his girlfriend. We are separated. I have gotten a lawyer, and have given him 3 versions of separation paperwork, which he verbally agrees to, but then doesn't sign, keeping me in financial, otherwise limbo. Though it has been less than a year, for example ex did not invite me to his family's Thanksgiving and brought his girlfriend instead. This has been hard for me, as my family lives several states away and in a way they were my adopted family. But, blood is thicker than water, and so they are following his lead in excluding me, and including her in group events (though sometimes I still see my mother in law for separate occasions). I do know they are upset at what has happened, but they don't want to make waves.

So what I am saying, as time goes on and you are shown not to be a whim of your husband's, they may accept and include you more, especially if your fiancé makes that clear that is important for them to see him.

 

[Kbell]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Maybe once you're married things will change for the better? And eventually she (the ex) will move on and have her own new relationship and their family to mix with. Where your fiancé's family doesn't even treat him very well, why would they treat you any better? It's very telling to me how people treat others.

Also, I think if the family has been close with her for many years, decades even, etc you cannot expect them to cut ties just because your fiancé did especially the women if they were very close and it seems they were. She is still the mother of his children and involved. She is still their friend. If they've always done these types of things together you can't expect them to stop. Hopefully as time goes on you could be their friend too even though they aren't making it easy and if not I wouldn't feel a loss for not having a relationship with them. Just keep being yourself and take the high road.

Change your FB settings so you don't see what they are posting if it's going to upset you. It's easy to do.
You can't change them so your best bet is to just change what you can. I have all my ex's friends/family restricted
on what they see since I thought it'd be rude to just delete them (the ones left who didn't delete me....) I also don't see or care what they post.

 

[MJ_Mac]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

This thread is over a year old and the OP hasn't posted for a year.

 

[chemgirl]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Violetjane, I don't know what the timeline is, and maybe it's none of my business, but when did you meet your fiancé? Was it before or after he was divorced? If it was before the divorce was finalized, I could see (even if not justified) the family feeling you were a catalyst for the divorce. Do you know if there was any infidelity on his part, before they separated or were divorced?

In my case, my husband had an affair for 5 years, but instead of staying with that person, broke it off and started dating another person whom he calls his girlfriend. We are separated. I have gotten a lawyer, and have given him 3 versions of separation paperwork, which he verbally agrees to, but then doesn't sign, keeping me in financial, otherwise limbo. Though it has been less than a year, for example ex did not invite me to his family's Thanksgiving and brought his girlfriend instead. This has been hard for me, as my family lives several states away and in a way they were my adopted family. But, blood is thicker than water, and so they are following his lead in excluding me, and including her in group events (though sometimes I still see my mother in law for separate occasions). I do know they are upset at what has happened, but they don't want to make waves.

So what I am saying, as time goes on and you are shown not to be a whim of your husband's, they may accept and include you more, especially if your fiancé makes that clear that is important for them to see him.

I wondered the same thing when I read this thread last year.

For what it's worth I'm sorry you're husband was such a coward.

 

[violetjane]

Hi All

I've been married for about a year and relationship with husband is great. Update, we don't have a relationship with most of his family. It was never that I didnt expect them to have a relationship with her, or that I want to be best friends with any of them. He and I were simply looking to be treated with respect. He didn't divorce her for me, our relationship began after their divorce. We were always polite and considerate with them, we didnt get the same in return and for that reason, and for many other reasons that have to do with some extreme family dysfunction, have chosen to live our lives not within that dynamic.

Also, for the record- my husband isn't a coward, he's a wonderful person who has been hurt by his family and subsequent to our marriage, has chosen for his emotional health and mine to distance himself from those who have been hurtful..


So, happy ending for us, sadly we can only do our best to forge good relationships but if that's not met with a similar effort, we have to move on. Thank you everyone for taking a moment to respond and sharing your thoughts. VJ.

 

[violetjane]

Such a sweet reply, all great advice

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

So many hugs. It does seem like something is going on, but I can't put my finger on it.

If I had to guess...

It could be that this is a group of mean girls. If the ex is as bad as your FI says, then why would the rest of the family even be attracted to her personality in the first place? Because they have something inside of them that relates to her in some way.

I mean, who in the world just doesn't even speak to their brother's new fiancee? Who does that???

Mean people do that.

Mean people use their tactics to put others in a position of begging for their approval. Don't do it! That is when they have all of the power.

Photos on the internet of their fantastic time together! I bet the ex loved that! This is all crappy.

How do you win?? You stop playing. You drop the rope. You take all of the advice that tells you to hold your head high and live your life to the fullest. When you see them, be as kind as possible to each one of them. Be your best self at all times. This is called "keeping your side of the street clean." This is how you stay proud of yourself. This is how you maintain integrity in such a toxic environment. This is how you cope. This is how you will always be able to gut check and know, it was never, ever you.

If it were me with facebook, I would block all of those people from my feed, not unfriend, but unfollow, and I would never, ever peek. It is very freeing to do this for yourself (believe me!) What you don't see, can't hurt you. Imagine if you hadn't seen this cooking class outing. You would be going about your day without this on your mind.

Draw boundaries, protect yourself, smile, be kind, have class, be everything that ex is not, be yourself, and screw them!

Big hugs again!

 

[Indylady]

Re: Having problems as 2nd wife, ( gentle) thoughts & FB ple

Unfortunately, you can't force people to like someone and you also can't tell grown adults who they can or can't speak about in your presence. Relationships (like the mother-in-law/daughter-in-law) aren't just something that you turn on and off like a switch, so just because a couple gets divorced, doesn't mean that all of the relationships have to end. He could still "move on" even though they maintain a relationship with his ex. In fact, the ultimate test of moving on would be to be completely okay with the fact that your ex is still friends with some of your family because it shows that you are content in your life and your choices. I am very close to my mother-in-law and if DH and I divorced, my MIL and I would probably still be good friends and if my DH didn't like it, that would be his problem not mine. I would say that as long as the family is not intentionally making anyone's life miserable, let it be. Move on, be happy, and don't worry about their relationship with her.

+1 to this, and MH's other post. I don't know if this makes it better or worse, but I'm inclined to think that they're simply not thinking of you when they invite her places, rather than purposefully excluding you or making a show of their relationship. My mother still calls my ex-boyfriend J that I broke up with 5 years ago from time to time--maybe twice a year, to have real conversations that last an hour. She would only call my recent ex to find where I was if I didn't answer the phone. She liked him just fine! (the recent ex, that is) she's just known J for YEARS. It would not have even occurred to her to compare those two relationships with her, even though they fulfilled the same "role" in my life--being my partner. There was once a time that she would mainly call J to ask where I was if I wasn't answering the phone, too, so its not like he got some glam treatment and the other ex didn't.

That being said--if they are doing these things purposefully, and trying to be mean, do what you can to meditate and try not to give a #$# about them. If they're as petty as you seem to make them sound, your fiance's ex can have them! Good riddance. And don't think that they're not petty with her too when they want to be--you just can't see it. So, be careful what you wish for! Perhaps its a blessing in disguise.

Anyway, sending you some happy vibes!

 

[chemgirl]

I apologize. The coward comment was directed to partgypsy because her husband doesn't sound like the nicest of people.

Your husband happens to have a difficult family. not his fault. Congratulations on your wedding.

 

[Kbell]

Hi All

I've been married for about a year and relationship with husband is great. Update, we don't have a relationship with most of his family. It was never that I didnt expect them to have a relationship with her, or that I want to be best friends with any of them. He and I were simply looking to be treated with respect. He didn't divorce her for me, our relationship began after their divorce. We were always polite and considerate with them, we didnt get the same in return and for that reason, and for many other reasons that have to do with some extreme family dysfunction, have chosen to live our lives not within that dynamic.

Also, for the record- my husband isn't a coward, he's a wonderful person who has been hurt by his family and subsequent to our marriage, has chosen for his emotional health and mine to distance himself from those who have been hurtful..


So, happy ending for us, sadly we can only do our best to forge good relationships but if that's not met with a similar effort, we have to move on. Thank you everyone for taking a moment to respond and sharing your thoughts. VJ.

Congrats on your marriage! You are right in that you can only do your best. The rest is up to them. It's probably better removing yourselves and being happy away from any toxic family element. Best wishes.

 

[PierreBear]

Way to show patience and kindness! You have so much heart to tread so lightly and just want to be included with the family. Nothing but good intentions! I have the same opinion of others mentioned above. I think the biggest change can be made through the fiance and hopefully they can help change hearts/attitude/feelings. Good luck and will be praying for open minds and willingness to treat you in the manner that they would want to be treated.