Head going to explode...

[perry]

Here''s one guy''s perspective...

Is he just using you because you are convienient?

Is he somewhat serious - but doesn''t want a committment?

Is he serious in his heat - but has not progressed to that level in his head yet?

Is he - deep in his heart - serious; but has issues to deal with and needs time?

Most of the times it is one of the first two - and he will never marry you (even if he gets you pregnant - multiple times).

A few are the third case - and need a nudge.

Occasionally there are some issues you don''t know about (and you should if you are going to marry) - and usually a good nudge will get them to the surface - where you and he can deal with them (and it may be appropriate to give him some more time in some cases).

Here is my advice. Explain how important the issue of marriage is, and give a timetable and/or some expected behaviours. Then stick to it. He will ether pass or fail (usually rapidely).

I suggest that you start looking for another appartment or at least a temporaty living situation now - so that you can execute a move on short notice in the event that your timetable becomes moot very quickly due to his reaction of their being one (where would you move if you had to move tomorrow; who would help you move, etc). For those few who need a good nudge: the fact that you have a plan ready to execute will communicate the nudge far better than anything else.

I recently had to execute a similar strategy with a gal. I was looking for some specific changes to indicate that she really was serious about me (and that the problems that had occured were "situational"). It really did not take that long to sort it out once she realized that I was serious about the situation.

Best of luck with this. Keep in mind that it is far better to live single than to get trapped in a marriage where the other partner is not really interested.

Perry

 

[cutes814]

Date: 10/12/2005 4:40:26 PM
Author: Hamster
I think guys will assume that if you put up with it, it is ok, so you need to show them that you won''t put up with it.

I definitely agree with Hamster on that. Guys will assume it is okay if we put up with it. They can''t read our minds, you know? So if we don''t show them it''s not okay, then they''ll continue to think it''s okay. I think maybe it''s time you showed your man that you are not happy with this current situation.

 

[icekid]

AP- I think you''ve gotten some really great advice (well- said, Alj.. as usual!) I just wanted to say that I feel for you.

I think when it''s RIGHT, most guys won''t hesitate. Mine certainly did not...

Sometimes you don''t realize that a previous relationship wasn''t quite right until you find the one that IS.

I know how frustraing this situation must be. Hopefully you will get the answers you need, want, and deserve SOON.

 

[blueroses]

AmandaPanda.....

Sweetie, I just wanted to send you some (((HUGS))) and let you know that I feel your pain. I go through PS waxes and wanes and recently I''ve just felt way too tapped out to really contribute much to the never-ending boy-soon quandy discussion....sometimes it''s just too much.

A lot of good feedback on both ends of the spectrum; I guess just listen to your own inner-barometer for when enough is enough. My BF and I hit NINE years in 2 weeks....granted we started dating in our early 20s, and marriage wasn''t even being discussed until a couple of years ago, but the LIW waiting game has now been going on in earnest for over a year and a half. I''m very close to my own little inner sell-by date. We''ll just see what happens! I know there are a lot of people--in real life and on PS--who likely think I''m insane, foolish, naieve, or codependent for letting him make me wait, but it is what it is for now.

HANG IN THERE!!!

 

[Erin]

I''m with BlueRoses. Your back and forth questioning hits too close to home for me to have an unbiased opinion. It matters so much all the little things that are unique to your relationship. I''ve been dating for four years and waiting for him to give me a ring he''s had in his possession for 18 months!!!

Most people don''t care what the details are that surround me in this position because to others they would be moot. Eighteen months and I''m still here? But, I know why I''m still here and there are plenty of reasons that make sense to ''us'' but I wouldn''t expect anyone to understand because it never makes sense in black and white.

I believe that everyone here has excellent, excellent points for you to consider but ultimately ''you'' are the only one who can find the true answer.

I feel for you and I''ll listen anytime

 

[appletini]

Yesterday I went to get my haircut, and I''ve known my hairdresser since pre-BF, so of course he''s always asking for a status update. He said "If your boyfriend doesn''t marry you, I will!". He''s not gay either.

At this point I realized what a wonderful idea...this could be a great relationship, I told him he could do my hair everyday and I''d always look great, and in exchange I''d bake homemade goodies for him everyday. He said if I did that, he''d get fat, and I told him I''d get fat too.

So my advice...we should all marry our hairdressers...just kidding, but I thought we could all use a little giggle.

He did have a good comment about the never ending questions about people asking "When are you getting married?" that horrible question that all of us LIW hate...he said that people ask that because they think we are such a great couple and they want us to get married. Now that I think of it, when ever I''ve had friends that date someone I don''t like or other couples that I don''t think are an ideal match, I never ask them that question, b/c I don''t want to put that idea into their head or encourage it. But I always ask that of guys/girls when I really like them together.

 

[ammayernyc]

Thanks for all of your advice guys.

I am having a really hard time with everything in my life right now, and having one more thing in my life in flux is just really getting to me.

Part of me feels that if he really wants to marry me, he would just ask and would have probably asked a while ago. But then I look at couples I know who dated for longer than we have and had lived together longer than we have and they are now married and perfectly happy. I talked with one of the men who is in that situation and asked him why it took him so long to propse. He said that he knew his wife was the one that he wanted to marry, but that it was just such a huge step that he procrastianted and waited and it wasn''t until after he was actually married (not even after he proposed) that he was sure that it was right.

There is not one sign that points to us not getting married, except for the fact that he hasn''t proposed. Obviously, that''s a big one. But it''s not the biggest, I think. I think time and gentle pushing, instead of drastic measures like moving out, will eventually lead him to give me that honker of a ring that I deserve!

 

[nytemist]

Appletini- jsut the giggle I needed. Though my hairdresser is a woman, it''s now legal in Mass so I''m all set!!

Amanda, I wish there was a magic wand or something that could change this situation for you (or all of us) If it''s meant to be things will work out. I know that doesn''t sound like much consolation but we have yet to decipher the male mind. If only they were as rational as us.

 

[Mara]

Date: 10/14/2005 9:01:12 AM
Author: appletini
He did have a good comment about the never ending questions about people asking 'When are you getting married?' that horrible question that all of us LIW hate...he said that people ask that because they think we are such a great couple and they want us to get married. Now that I think of it, when ever I've had friends that date someone I don't like or other couples that I don't think are an ideal match, I never ask them that question, b/c I don't want to put that idea into their head or encourage it. But I always ask that of guys/girls when I really like them together.

That's actually SO TRUE...we adore our photographer who did our wedding and went to a client appreciation party/opening of their new digs in SF last nite, and we hadn't seen him in a while...the question Greg was asking me as we walked the few blocks from the car to the party was when are they getting married? We adore his GF, she's SO cute and really complements him so well, she's a great match for him. She came to Kauai and shot our wedding with him and everyone who met them just loved them. Anyhow, I said well I don't know, we'll have to ask! So 10 minutes into our convo with him (she wasn't around yet..) I said so when are you guys getting married! Since I have asked him this the last few times too and I know he is totally thinking about it. Well this time he had a PLAN...he was like oh don't say anything to her but it will definitely be between Feb and June! And said he really wanted it to be great, this and that. I said well you know you have to come to me for advice on the ring, he said OF COURSE..but he also said he's torn between a family heirloom piece (maybe even just the setting) or a new ring with 'sentimental value', he's so cute. I want to clone him and pass him out amongst my GF's! They have been dating about 2 years total. Nice timeframe...and she is in her early 30's and he's about Greg's age at 36 or so...so I think his light is definitely ON.

Anyway, we were dying to ask because we think they ARE so perfect together and I know that he agrees and has been thinking about it. But on the other hand I have a really good friend who has been dating a gal for 1.5 years and she is totally pushing for more like living together or 'next step' stuff, but none of us in the group like her and he is balking because he doesn't think he's ready (personally we just think she is not the one and I think he thinks that too but is too lazy and likes the attention etc)...so I asked him previously if he was thinking about marriage with her just to see what he'd say, but I would never be like..so when are you guys getting married!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I totally understand what you are going through!!!! I waited 4 + years for his proposal. Sometimes my FI has a Peter Pan complex and thinks he is still 18. Well he''s not.

It isn''t about the ring (that is a nice perk) or about "keeping up with the Jones" like another poster mentioned, it is about hearing those words. The one where he wants to spend the rest of his life with you. My FI made it a personal mission that I would be surprised with the proposal (I was involved in the ring and he had it for MONTHS before he proposed) The wait was worth it I PROMISE!!!!! As hard as it is. My FI did give me a timeline. On my 24th b-day he said I would have my ring by my 25th (he proposed a month before) and the timeline did emotionally help. Ask for one. It didn''t bother me he cut it close, I kind of expected that.

Just talk to him and let him know what you are feeling. And vent here as often as possible. Most of us can relate fully.

 

[perry]

Nytemist said:

I know that doesn''t sound like much consolation but we have yet to decipher the male mind. If only they were as rational as us.

Really now...

I have it on good authority that the guys have het to decipher the female mind. If only they were as rational as us.


Perry

ps: you don''t suppose that one possible solution (in that magic wand) is for the guys who appreaciate diamonds and gals who appreciate diamonds - who are stuck in "la la land" might get together. A pricescope dating forum ?..

 

[heart prongs]

Wow...I just spent the better part of yet another rainy day in Boston going through all these posts and remembering how I felt when I was waiting, and waiting, and waiting.

The problem is really about control...It's soooo hard to sit idly by while the man you love gets to make all the decisions about a future that includes the two of you. In allowing this to happen, you are essentially allowing something that is is very imprtant to you to be taken completely out of your control...and that's devastating at its very least...and publicly embarrasssing at its worst!!!

I'm curious as to how old you guys are, because I have a theory. I'm no expert, but I have noticed that oftentimes when a guy meets a girl in his mid-20s, he is not as likely to want to get married anytime in the immediate future. Why? Because there's no sense of urgency for children, not so much pressure on his end for marriage either. The girl alone is the nagging force whining, "When?" "Why?" and "What's wrong with me?" She bears all the intrusive, yet apparently well-meaning questions that she cannot answer, and, when all is said and done, comes across as desperate to her mate! What's her rush? he thinks...just a theory, certainly not applicable in all cases...

My story: My now husband and soon-to-be father of our first child next May

kept saying he couldn't wait to marry me, always used the future tense and "we" in conversations, even with other people/family. When we were together, I felt quite comfortable fielding the "When are you 2 kids going to get married?" question -- I could give it right to him! But when I had to deal with it on my own, it was horrible! I felt as though everyone felt sorry for me...and that was the worst. After all, we had known each other as friends forever, dated for over 3.5 years, and we weren't getting any younger! What I've realized, however, is that nobody really cares all that much when you're going to get married...they're just making small talk!!!

So why hadn't he asked yet? Well, he wanted to get me the perfect ring and have all his "ducks in a row" financially before he proposed. He had gone back to school, switched careers, etc...so things were tight for a while. And although I didn't understand why all that mattered so much at the time, I do appreciate it so much more now that he was realistic about the whole thing. I just tend not to worry about stuff like that...good thing one of us does I guess!!!

Because we waited I now have an amazing ring that we both love and that I know he worked his butt off for -- which is why I would never ever even consider upgrading; we had the wedding and honeymoon that dreams are made of; and we aren't stressing that much about the cost of raising the little appleseed that's growing inside me now! So while the wedding I had planned in my head was to take place in August of 2003, I'm more than fine, and totally over, the fact that it was held in August of 2004!

So, after all this my message is that maybe he has a plan...but you should feel free to communicate with him about it in a mature way. Never feel as though you shouldn't have a say in something that totally involves the two of you. Remind him that it's not just about getting married. I remember telling my husband that the whole point was that I loved him so much that I couldn't wait to be his wife...what better compliment could you give someone, right?!

Best of luck to you and all who are waiting...In most cases...the hopeless romantic in me think it's all worth it!!!

klr

prongs

 

[snuga]

Being a LIW is hard. Yesterday my boyfriend and I looked at rings on the internet (again) and picked out some things I liked. We discussed a time-line for a proposal. He said that the maximum would be 10-11 months. UGH!!! But at least I know that a year from now I will be engaged to the man I love. It does help to have some sort of time-line, even if its not the length I want. I keep thinking... okay, it could be 11 months from now, but it could also be 4 months from now, or even 2 or maybe 1, or tomorrow????

Anyway, discuss the issue with him and let him know that it''s important to you. I''m sure it will happen in due time, and I have no doubt that he loves you and you love him very much.

In the mean time pricescope is a great place to get some therapy. Or does it make it worse? I haven''t decided yet....

Hang in there!

 

[ello]

I''ve asked my boyfriend all the usual questions about commitment...his answer to me was that guys are very simple - if they did not want to be with someone and did not see a future, they would not waste their time. I guess girls tend to drag things on for a long time even though the relationship might not be perfect. I think guys usually know when it''s time to get out - so maybe it''s really nothing more than he''s saving money or have set a person goal for himself. Taking a mini vacation (weekend) to visit a friend might help to rekindle the relationship. It''s hard to relax but believe in your heart that your time will also come. I would not necessary say that staying with someone for 10 years without a commitment is good idea but staying with someone and worrying for 10 years is a huge waste. If he''s your partner for life and you love being with him, I would say that it''s worth waiting for just a while longer. I guess in some ways we are all playing the waiting game! Good luck – just remember that you are really the catch and not the other way around – wink-wink! I just bought the Carmen Electra aerobic striptease DVD set...I’m hoping that it might rekindle mine.... ha ha ha!

 

[MissAva]

How are things going? Feeling any better?
Ries I got that DVD set...I would not say it was worth it, not much of an exercise and not really anything you could not figure out on your own.

 

[ello]

It''s true - but I really had to find out if there was anything I did not know...would not want to miss out on anything! ha ha ha! I have to say that my bum was sore for about 2 days after doing the workout with her and the guy...I do like her hair though - I''m going to freeze frame it and print it for my hairdresser....I''m a big fool!

 

[fire&ice]

Simply put. You deserve to be happy. You aren''t. You have repeatedly expressed that you want him to propose. The fact that he hasn''t should speak volumes to you. Stop making excuses. It''s time for action. Honestly, when do you think he will be "ready"? Sounds like never to me. Do you really want to spend your precious energies on someone who isn''t willing to reciprocate?

 

[ammayernyc]

Date: 10/20/2005 10:45:08 AM
Author: fire&ice
Simply put. You deserve to be happy. You aren''t. You have repeatedly expressed that you want him to propose. The fact that he hasn''t should speak volumes to you. Stop making excuses. It''s time for action. Honestly, when do you think he will be ''ready''? Sounds like never to me. Do you really want to spend your precious energies on someone who isn''t willing to reciprocate?

I certainly hope this wasn''t directed towards only me. Because this is the case for all the Ladies-in-Waiting. We all want our men to propose. Just because they haven''t doesn''t mean they won''t.

I didn''t post my frustrations to recieve on positive responses. But, truly, this is way too harsh. And not true.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 10/20/2005 11:05:08 AM
Author: AmandaPanda

Date: 10/20/2005 10:45:08 AM
Author: fire&ice
Simply put. You deserve to be happy. You aren''t. You have repeatedly expressed that you want him to propose. The fact that he hasn''t should speak volumes to you. Stop making excuses. It''s time for action. Honestly, when do you think he will be ''ready''? Sounds like never to me. Do you really want to spend your precious energies on someone who isn''t willing to reciprocate?

I certainly hope this wasn''t directed towards only me. Because this is the case for all the Ladies-in-Waiting. We all want our men to propose. Just because they haven''t doesn''t mean they won''t.

I didn''t post my frustrations to recieve on positive responses. But, truly, this is way too harsh. And not true.

Sorry if it sounded harsh. I''m speaking from the heart to many of the ladies in waiting. Why are you waiting & waiting? Has it occured that you are just waiting? I wouldn''t want to be with someone who doesn''t want to commit to be with me. At the very least, it''s not the best for self esteem.

And, I speak from experience - been there done that & seen it a lot - as many have pointed out in this thread. Boy doesn''t commit. Break up & boy or girl marries the next person they meet.

 

[ammayernyc]

Date: 10/20/2005 11:13:19 AM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 10/20/2005 11:05:08 AM
Author: AmandaPanda

Date: 10/20/2005 10:45:08 AM
Author: fire&ice
Simply put. You deserve to be happy. You aren''t. You have repeatedly expressed that you want him to propose. The fact that he hasn''t should speak volumes to you. Stop making excuses. It''s time for action. Honestly, when do you think he will be ''ready''? Sounds like never to me. Do you really want to spend your precious energies on someone who isn''t willing to reciprocate?

I certainly hope this wasn''t directed towards only me. Because this is the case for all the Ladies-in-Waiting. We all want our men to propose. Just because they haven''t doesn''t mean they won''t.

I didn''t post my frustrations to recieve on positive responses. But, truly, this is way too harsh. And not true.

Sorry if it sounded harsh. I''m speaking from the heart to many of the ladies in waiting. Why are you waiting & waiting? Has it occured that you are just waiting? I wouldn''t want to be with someone who doesn''t want to commit to be with me. At the very least, it''s not the best for self esteem.

And, I speak from experience - been there done that & seen it a lot - as many have pointed out in this thread. Boy doesn''t commit. Break up & boy or girl marries the next person they meet.

I understand that you are speaking from your heart, and I do appreciate it. I just think you are putting everyone in the same pile. People are not the same.

I know someone who was dating someone for five years, living with her for two, had the ring for six months before he gave it to her, and completely freaked out about everything the whole time. Why? He couldn''t tell you now -- he''s so happy.

I also know someone who went through what you did -- he was dating someone for five years, not living together, but ''had enough'' and broke up with her. Within a year he was married to his college sweethart and pregnant with their first child.

I appreciate your honesty, but I don''t think that all situations similar to yours end the same way. There are certainly happy endings.

 

[fire&ice]

All I am saying is that at a certain point doesn''t one have to accept that a proposal is never going to come? One either has to leave or accept the relationship as is. I have one friend who has been waiting for a proposal for 15+ years. At this point she knows it''s not going to come. She stays with him because she doesn''t know what else to do. She has to accept how one sided the relationship is. I could never do that. I feel like she has just settled & compromised herself.

And, it''s not always the lady that''s waiting. What exactly is he/she not ready for? I can see some valid reasons. But, I wouldn''t settle for a nebulous "not ready". In fact, I didn''t & met the man of my dreams a year later. And, on that note when we started to get serious he told me that he wouldn''t marry until he was 30. I stated that I wouldn''t be waiting. We were engaged a few months later - been married 22 years.

It really is all about timing. In the end, you have to consider *what YOU want*.

 

[ammayernyc]

I guess I''m not ready to accept it yet. I belive a proposal is coming. I''m patient, but that doesn''t mean I don''t get frustrated.

I just think it''s harsh and bad advice to tell someone to leave their relationship because they are waiting and shouldn''t be.

He waited for me when I was in a depression after my mother died. I waited for him when he broke his leg and couldn''t walk I had to help him bathe and dress. So, I''m waiting for him now while he gets his head in order.

 

[ello]

“Rome was not build in one day” - Not every man is dishonest. Personally I think it’s wrong to set an ultimatum – sharing your feelings with your boyfriend is great but pressuring is totally (in my book) heading for disastrous marriage. We have been so conditioned that we should follow the rules of dating and with the result have become over eager and depressed when things don’t move fast enough. I think woman in general are a lot harder on guys than they are on us. I think I would be devastated if my boyfriend gave me a deadline - to have a baby or to reach a certain goal. It would be enough to push me over the edge…Marriage does not bring security –You can have a very loyal and committed companion in your life without being married. Of course the feeling must be mutual and you must be compatible. I would rather walk a mile with someone than jump head over heels into marriage…it’s all about timing – you are correct…
I’ve been with someone for 6 years and I’ve been with someone for 3 years - thank God I did not marry the first guy I ever fell in love with.

 

[ello]

This post was not directed to anyone in particular – I’m just getting it off my chest….

Good luck to all the ladies – I’m also waiting!

 

[ammayernyc]

Date: 10/20/2005 12:51:13 PM
Author: Ries
“Rome was not build in one day” - Not every man is dishonest. Personally I think it’s wrong to set an ultimatum – sharing your feelings with your boyfriend is great but pressuring is totally (in my book) heading for disastrous marriage. We have been so conditioned that we should follow the rules of dating and with the result have become over eager and depressed when things don’t move fast enough. I think woman in general are a lot harder on guys than they are on us. I think I would be devastated if my boyfriend gave me a deadline - to have a baby or to reach a certain goal. It would be enough to push me over the edge…Marriage does not bring security –You can have a very loyal and committed companion in your life without being married. Of course the feeling must be mutual and you must be compatible. I would rather walk a mile with someone than jump head over heels into marriage…it’s all about timing – you are correct…
I’ve been with someone for 6 years and I’ve been with someone for 3 years - thank God I did not marry the first guy I ever fell in love with.

I agree with this completely.

 

[fire&ice]

It not about a deadline. It''s about being on the same page & wanting the same thing. It''s about recognizing the others wants and needs. I wanted to be married. Granted to the right guy - but I wasn''t going to wait around till I was 30 to see if marriage was a possiblity. That wasn''t an option that made me happy. There was no good reason why he wanted to wait. At the time, it was an "out" for him to not be so committed. He either had to accept a commitment or come to the realization that at 30 he may be without me. I''m glad I made a stand.

And, at a certain point it may never happen. What then? Do you wait forever? How long is too long? I''m not trying to be harsh. It''s simple fact that only the individual can decide. But, the individual IS in control of their own destiny.

 

[LAJennifer]

Hi everyone. I certainly sympathize with all of you. AmandaPanda, I went back and re-read your original post for this thread. Are your feelings of anger and frustration a constant feeling, or when only you see others getting engaged? You stated that he doesn''t have the answers that you seek, yet it has been 4 years - you''re both 30 and financially secure. That would make me angry and frustrated too. He should be able to give you some kind of "reason", but if not - then I''m afraid I''m with Fire&Ice on this one - you need to decide for yourself how long you will wait for him to give you some answers (at the very least).

 

[ammayernyc]

Although I am mildly frustrated on a daily basis with the fact that we''re not engaged, I am extremely happy with our relationship. I got extremely frustrated with this other engagement because in the manner I was told... or rather the conversation that proceeded it.

The person who got engaged is a family friend. His mother and my mother were very close, so his mother feels protective, if not extremely overprotective, of me since my mother died. So, when she told me her son got engaged, she proceed with the conversation with -- what''s going on with you two? He needs to get his butt in gear... and so on and so forth. And every relative I''ve told about that engagement has said almost the same things to me verbatim. So, I drove myself crazy.

My boyfriend has issues discussing his feelings. It''s a problem, I know. But he''s gotten a lot better. I refuse to give him an ultimatum as I don''t believe in them and I am extremely happy with him and our relationship. I''m not sure there is an answer to the questions I give him. Why isn''t he ready? It''s not because he doesn''t want to be with me, it''s because marriage is this huge, overwhelming concept. It is for me too, and took me up until a couple of months ago to realize it''s something I want as well.

As for how long will I wait, I don''t know. I''ve experienced so much loss in my life that I honestly don''t have a concept of forever.

 

[MissAva]

Date: 10/20/2005 4:11:36 PM
Author: AmandaPanda
Although I am mildly frustrated on a daily basis with the fact that we''re not engaged, I am extremely happy with our relationship. I got extremely frustrated with this other engagement because in the manner I was told... or rather the conversation that proceeded it.

The person who got engaged is a family friend. His mother and my mother were very close, so his mother feels protective, if not extremely overprotective, of me since my mother died. So, when she told me her son got engaged, she proceed with the conversation with -- what''s going on with you two? He needs to get his butt in gear... and so on and so forth. And every relative I''ve told about that engagement has said almost the same things to me verbatim. So, I drove myself crazy.

My boyfriend has issues discussing his feelings. It''s a problem, I know. But he''s gotten a lot better. I refuse to give him an ultimatum as I don''t believe in them and I am extremely happy with him and our relationship. I''m not sure there is an answer to the questions I give him. Why isn''t he ready? It''s not because he doesn''t want to be with me, it''s because marriage is this huge, overwhelming concept. It is for me too, and took me up until a couple of months ago to realize it''s something I want as well.

As for how long will I wait, I don''t know. I''ve experienced so much loss in my life that I honestly don''t have a concept of forever.

Oh AP! That just breaks my heart. *hugs* and more *hugs*

Have you said that to your SO, perhaps the idea that you are not 100% solid on forever worries him. Or makes him wonder about it himself.

 

[ammayernyc]

All things said and done, I think he''s just being a boy. It''s the ''why-fix-it-if-it''s-not-broke'' syndrome!