He''s Just Not That Into You? some thoughts...

[gwendolyn]

I know with topics like this, there's always going to be generalizations about the sexes, but really, that kinda bugs me. Maybe because I know I break the mold by not being the epitome of being girly, which I either love or wish was different: I was the only female percussionist my entire time at college (that was my major, so it doesn't seem random), I am the breadwinner (and for a time possibly the sole provider if we have kids because he wants to stay at home) in my relationship, I am the one who plans and investigates and researches and does, I am currently the one sacrificing for us to be together, I'm the adventurer, I am an LIW because of me (he's ready, I'm not), and I am almost always the one who does the hand-holding, instead of needing my hand to be held. Reading generalizations about how men like to provide, or do, or how they act when they're ready to be married or not--it makes me feel like I live in a completely different world than the rest of you. And maybe I do. Or maybe I'm secretly a man in disguise (

!). But I think it's hard enough for people to figure out on their own what they want without then worrying about how they fit into pre-existing stereotypes and if that makes what they want wrong in some way because it's different.

I guess stereotypes annoy me. So this isn't really the thread for me to be posting in! Feel free to ignore me. I had less than 4 hours of sleep due to jet lag (back in the UK again), I have some intestinal bug (haven't had solid food stay in my body for almost 10 days!) and there were rude people slamming doors in my flat at 2:30am last night. Not happy today.

 

[sweetjettagirl04]

Date: 5/1/2008 12:17:53 PM
Author: gwendolyn
I know with topics like this, there's always going to be generalizations about the sexes, but really, that kinda bugs me. Maybe because I know I break the mold by not being the epitome of being girly, which I either love or wish was different: I was the only female percussionist my entire time at college (that was my major, so it doesn't seem random), I am the breadwinner (and for a time possibly the sole provider if we have kids because he wants to stay at home) in my relationship, I am the one who plans and investigates and researches and does, I am currently the one sacrificing for us to be together, I'm the adventurer, I am an LIW because of me (he's ready, I'm not), and I am almost always the one who does the hand-holding, instead of needing my hand to be held. Reading generalizations about how men like to provide, or do, or how they act when they're ready to be married or not--it makes me feel like I live in a completely different world than the rest of you. And maybe I do. Or maybe I'm secretly a man in disguise (

!). But I think it's hard enough for people to figure out on their own what they want without then worrying about how they fit into pre-existing stereotypes and if that makes what they want wrong in some way because it's different.

I guess stereotypes annoy me. So this isn't really the thread for me to be posting in! Feel free to ignore me. I had less than 4 hours of sleep due to jet lag (back in the UK again), I have some intestinal bug (haven't had solid food stay in my body for almost 10 days!) and there were rude people slamming doors in my flat at 2:30am last night. Not happy today.

Oh Gwen, honey, sorry you're not well.

I think this can go either way. I'm sure it's not abnormal for a woman to hold the cards, so to speak. I think in general, the guy is the one who is the hold out, if you will. Women, at least from what I've noticed, tend to be the ones who are more anxious about the relationship progressing to that next level, while the guy will take his time and do what is right for him. I see no problem with the roles being reversed. It's a stereotype, and it sucks.

I think what you're doing is great. From what I've gleaned from your posts, you're getting all your ducks in a row before jumping into anything. I applaud you for taking your time to do things your way, and it's great that your SO is supportive of whatever you want. That, my dear, shows that he really is into you.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 5/1/2008 12:04:33 PM
Author: Bliss
I echo the sentiment that every couple is different and that every timeline ripens per individual.

That having been said, personally... I feel like it''s best when the man is the one taking the initiative to want to make a woman his wife. Maybe it''s the hunter gatherer mentality, but when men truly want something -- you''d better believe they''ll be planning, taking action and doing more than just thinking about it. They''re mostly doers.

I also believe it makes for a great marriage when both parties are eager about starting their lives together. Men who tend to be the ones going, ''Oh my gosh! I can''t wait to make her my wife! Aren''t I lucky to have her???'' tend to also be the ones who do send flowers years into marriage and make the extra effort to show their wives they''re appreciated and adored.

Of course life is real and it''s not perfect. But I wouldn''t be the one driving us toward marriage. I''d be the co-pilot with the man initiating things. My theory is, the girl''s kind of laid back and watching amused as the guy pulls out stops and does all sorts of cute things to impress her. Ya know?

Men actually love making their SOs happy. They live for it. Why take that thrill away from them? We talk about everything, but at a certain point... I let him think that he''s winning the lottery by getting to marry me.

Awesome post, Bliss! You said it perfectly. You have a great perspective on the dynamic between men and women. I agree that it''s the men who are excited about proposing and who feel lucky to be marrying their fiancees that make the best husbands. That''s why I want someone who is eager to marry me. Whether my boyfriend is that man remains to be seen. But I will find out Saturday!

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 5/1/2008 12:50:03 PM
Author: sweetjettagirl04
Oh Gwen, honey, sorry you''re not well.


I think this can go either way. I''m sure it''s not abnormal for a woman to hold the cards, so to speak. I think in general, the guy is the one who is the hold out, if you will. Women, at least from what I''ve noticed, tend to be the ones who are more anxious about the relationship progressing to that next level, while the guy will take his time and do what is right for him. I see no problem with the roles being reversed. It''s a stereotype, and it sucks.


I think what you''re doing is great. From what I''ve gleaned from your posts, you''re getting all your ducks in a row before jumping into anything. I applaud you for taking your time to do things your way, and it''s great that your SO is supportive of whatever you want. That, my dear, shows that he really is into you.

Thank you, sweetheart.

 

[Bliss]

Thanks, Laila! FAIRY DUST TO YOU!!!! You sound lovely, my dear! Your sweetie is super lucky to have you, as you are blessed to have him.

You go, girl!

Awww, Gwendolyn... sorry you don''t feel well and are sleep deprived. That is the absolute worst. I hear ya about being annoyed with stereotypes. They aren''t gospel, and don''t let them touch a nerve. It''s just a personal observation *generally speaking* and in no way applies to everyone.

Hey, I should know! Like you, I break a few stereotypes, myself. I earn double my FI''s salary (though who has the lasting earning potential in the end remains to be seen). Most of the women in our circle (actually all of them ha!) outearn their significant others. We''re Manhattanites. Most of the girls are in hedge funds and the men are i-bankers. Go figure! So we''re not knitting at home, either!

We''re having fun, too. To be fair, FI just graduated from business school -- so I am sure he''s going to give me a run for my money (literally and figuratively)!

So it''s not like women are princesses in a castle waiting for a man to whisk them off their feet, per se. I''m just saying we''re rockstars, too. And personally, I think it benefits both parties in a couple if the woman spends less time (I know it''s hard!) getting mad at the man and instead puts that time and energy into herself and follows her bliss. It''s tough, but healthier and you''ll both be happier for it!

Just reminding us ladies that they are just as blessed and as lucky as we are to be in the relationship. And it just seems to work best when men are the ones who are running toward that, too.

My dad always said he was the luckiest man in the world to have won the heart of my mom. And he treated her like gold. In 2008, women also have the power. But I do like the fact that my guy is just as excited as I am to be engaged. I am soooo excited and I can''t wait. But I''m relaxing and letting him hop up and down with excitement and planning. Ya know? It''s kind of fun. (Torture, sometimes, yes!) But I know if I took the reins, it would spoil the fun. Besides, I kind of like him walking around grinning like he''s winning the lottery. That''s how I feel about him.

In my friends'' marriages, the women who love themselves enough to follow their bliss and have inner strength have men who also treat them like gold. Their self-worth and power comes from within. Their strength and depth comes from the support of friends, family, interests, hobbies and spirituality. Ya know? Just my personal observation and experience. But not every couple is alike. Different things work for different people. No one scenario is a blanket for all.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Bliss, it sounds like you and your boyfriend are both really excited, which is fantastic! I think it's so much easier to be able to "co-pilot" when the pilot is headed in the right direction

For those women who don't know what's going on in the pilot's head, I think they want a bigger part in steering the vessel, haha.

I agree, though, that a woman should stay focused on her own life and what makes her happy...sacrificing too much for the sake of the relationship isn't necessarily appealing to many men!

 

[ringshopper2008]

Date: 5/1/2008 3:27:17 PM
Author: Bliss
if the woman spends less time (I know it''s hard!) getting mad at the man and instead puts that time and energy into herself and follows her bliss. It''s tough, but healthier and you''ll both be happier for it!

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bliss]

Oh gosh, NewEnglandLady, you are so right.

I also have dear gfs who are dating REALLY great guys -- but the guys can be clueless sometimes about getting married. They're either blissfully unaware or just waiting until the bug hits 'em. But usually that's remedied with a sincere talk. They get the clue!

Maybe it's due to my age. I just hit 30 so men are ready to settle down at around this age. Heck, in our twenties and mid-twenties... we didn't know what we were doing! So kudos to the ladies and gents who figured it out so early. Guess some of us weren't as mature or ready to settle down yet. Some of you are very lucky to have found and realized that you are with your true loves at an earlier age! I sure wish I had realized it earlier! Some of us had to go the long route before we finally found "home."

ETA: Double amen, ringshopper2008! Fairy dust to you, too!!!!

 

[janinegirly]

Bliss~ you have a bit of a different experience with the Manhattan dating scene than I did when I was 30! I don't quite recall guys being ready to settle down at the age of 30--in fact, I'm seeing men wait longer and longer around here--waiting till late 30's/early 40's is not uncommon. My gf's also seemed to be of the opinion that some of the men here are not just clueless re: marriage, but more likely staying single as long as possible b/c there are just toooo many options out there for them! Not to say there aren't exceptions--just that this is more often what I hear being described than not!

Sounds to me like you found yourself a catch!! Congrats and I am looking forward to hearing all about your engagment when it happens, I have a feeling it'll be a good one !

 

[Bliss]

Janinegirly, THANK YOU!

Hahaha. I, too, have seen what you're talking about... at least in the periphery! Manhattan is full of single, older men. In most cases, they have some kind of story. They don't believe in marriage, their parents' union left a great deal to be desired or some just have relationship issues. A few of them eventually do get married much later, more out of desperation or loneliness. If you ask them, all of them will say they are waiting for the right one. But most of them have met many right ones but still can't seem to settle down. Peter Pan syndrome?

I do know one well, and he was so set in his ways that it was really hard for him to find a woman to stick around. I think he and his bachelor friends weren't truly looking for real partners. They were kind of childishly selfish in that immature bachelor way! LOL. He was desperately lonely and anxious inside, though to the world it looked like he was living it up. It was kind of sad.

Most of the guys I know in their early 30s are already married or in serious relationships. It's like the domino effect. One goes first and they all start settling down. They're pretty stable family guys and realistically, want families. Can't wait tooooo long, unfortunately! Gosh, sometimes I wish biology would be a little more flexible. We want kids but realize it should be within the next few years.

I keep hearing that it's harder to have kids if you wait until your mid-thirties. Is this true?

Yikes!!! Argh.

 

[Just_Me]

Bliss - Unfortunately it is true.

A women''s fertility starts declining in her mid to late 20''s. At 30 it takes a little bigger of a hit and at about 35 it takes a pretty significant hit. It totally sucks that we are on such a time crunch.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 5/1/2008 5:48:28 PM
Author: Just_Me
Bliss - Unfortunately it is true.

A women''s fertility starts declining in her mid to late 20''s. At 30 it takes a little bigger of a hit and at about 35 it takes a pretty significant hit. It totally sucks that we are on such a time crunch.

The worst part is that most men don''t worry about biological clocks or when to have kids. They don''t have that urgency we do. That is why it''s so dangerous to advise a woman to be patient and wait as long as it takes for her (possibly ambivalent) boyfriend to propose. She might very well be sacrificing her ability to have kids!

 

[claireabelle]

Date: 5/1/2008 12:04:33 PM

Author: Bliss

Men actually love making their SOs happy. They live for it. Why take that thrill away from them? We talk about everything, but at a certain point... I let him think that he''s winning the lottery by getting to marry me.

Bliss, I was reading your post nodding my head agreeably until I reached this last little paragraph ...Sorry... but it starts to sound like you''re looking for a lapdog, not a husband. I think men should be given a bit more credit - of course it''s great for couples to dote on EACH OTHER. However, I think you might find that some men are looking for a more well-rounded sense of fulfillment in life. I don''t agree that all men ''live'' for the sheer ''thrill'' of making women happy. It sounds so simplified.

Just my 2cents... again.

 

[janinegirly]

Bliss: I also see alot of fellas in NYC who are nice, decent guys from good families who hold out. It's not always in men's genes to settle down, so the more options they have to delay (without being judged by society, which they certainly are not in NYC), the more they will. It's true there's a group that marries in 20's/early 30's (usually men who've been dating sweethearts froms school/home for awhile) but then there's a big lull till late 30's! That's what I've observed in my 8 years here It's a tough dating scene for the ladies I think, and you DEF have a catch for finding such a dedicated guy who's also an investment banker (hehe .

ALSO, I wanted to chime in on the whole babies thing. I married "late" (34) and am pregnant now at 35. I read all the stats on the 35 cutoff and freaked out. But then I got preggers before we even officially were ready to start trying, so don't believe *all* the hype. It's important to be aware of biology's limitations and to not push the limits, but on the other hand, things don't suddenly go downhill from 34 to 35. I was convinced it'd take me ages, but it was quite the opposite. I'm now glad we took our time and I had those 3 yrs of dating DH because now we'll have a LO by our first anniversary!

 

[Bliss]

Claireabelle -- LOL! Lap dog! That made me laugh. No, I definitely don't want a lap dog! FI is not even close to one. Very strong ideas & identity, ambitious and a real hoot! But we both looooove putting smiles on each others' faces.

Speaking of doggies...the one in your avatar is TOO CUTE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bliss]

Janinegirly, CONGRATS! Didn't know you had a little one on the way!

Wow, this Mother's Day will kind of be your first, then!

I don't think you married "late" at all. These days, that's the norm! Hey, in Manhattan...that's right on time! Maybe early, even!

Yes, there is definitely a mix. I am so happy to hear your story. FI and I are like, "Whoa, since we're getting married in our early thirties... we should have babies soon into our marriage!"

Sometimes I wonder what life would be like if men were the ones with the biological clocks. Can you imagine that???

 

[KCCutie]

I am so with you ladies! We need to start our own support group (I know this thread has gone way off in left field).

I''ll be turning 31 in 8 days. When I was younger I always thought I''d be married before I turned 30 and I have to admit that that was the hardest dreams I ever had to give up on and if I hadn''t been on vacation on the beach with my wonderful SO for that milestone I may have had a serious meltdown. Now that we are talking about getting engaged soon I''m excited and not at all worried about when we will have babies.

I think God puts people in your life for all the right reasons and I have begun to notice that many of my co-workers and even a couple family members have had children in their 30''s and they are my inspiration. One co-worker who really gives me hope now has 3 kids. When we met she had 2, ages 6 and 3 and she was 36, and I didn''t think much of it at the time. Then she decided she wanted a 3rd and got pg at 37 with her 3rd. Every time she came from the OBGYN she''d say angrily "If they call me an ''older mother'' one more time!" and it made us all laugh. She had no complications, none. She was convinced the title "older mother" was just so the medical insurance company could make more money off all the expensive "recommended" tests. Now I know even if I am married before I turn 32 (which at this rate there''s a good chance I will be) there''s no rush. I want to have at least year with my new husband before we start our family and until a couple years ago that thought of waiting that long would have just mortified me.

Now all I can say is I''m so glad things worked out the way they did. No matter how important that dream of being married before I turned 30 seemed to me I''m so glad I didn''t jump through hoops to make it happen. If I had I probably wouldn''t be with my SO and I wouldn''t be near as happy as I currently am.

 

[claireabelle]

Date: 5/2/2008 12:12:12 PM
Author: Bliss
Claireabelle -- LOL! Lap dog! That made me laugh. No, I definitely don''t want a lap dog! FI is not even close to one. Very strong ideas & identity, ambitious and a real hoot! But we both looooove putting smiles on each others'' faces.


Speaking of doggies...the one in your avatar is TOO CUTE!!!!!!!!!!!

Great to hear! I sometimes get a bit defensive on behalf of the boys... soz!

btw the doggie is a ''beaglier'' (beagle x cavalier) ...and yes, she is too cute - and I''m sure she knows it!!