hey girls....when you go out to dinner with your bf ...

[vslover]

Date: 12/30/2008 9:50:55 AM
Author: rob09
Honestly - the argument that ''he likes to pay'' is (a) an easy way out in many occasions and (b) none of MY male friends ever told me that they always liked to pay for everything - which makes me seriously wonder about the truthfulness of that statement. In many cases they just pay because they fear that not doing so would leave a bad impression, which (unfortunately) would indeed be the case after reading quite a few postings on this topic. Do I believe that some men just pay all the time because they are 100% committed to a traditional male gender role? Sure.

But that does not equate to ''liking to pay'' IMHO either. Just a few random thoughts here ...

I was a single stay at home mom when I met DH and he LIKED taking care of me. Seriously...he knew I''d had a rough first marriage and delighted in being good to me. I did pay a couple of times (on his bday, etc) but he did then and still does like to take care of me. We''re fairly traditional in our roles and it''s how both of us like it. Maybe your friends aren''t like that and it''s ok...but your friends aren''t representative of EVERY man on the planet.

 

[BlueSki231]

Date: 12/30/2008 9:58:22 AM
Author: rob09

Date: 12/29/2008 8:21:40 PM

I used to think this way until I met my BF, he does not agree that paying half is fair. I think he brings up some good points. He thinks if the couple earns an uneven income, than things should be divided up by income. That way the lower earner is not hurting to try and ''keep up.''

That is a good point and I also think that relative income matters. BUT! How many cases have you actually seen where the woman consistently pays for everything because she earns more ?????? Hm ... (and yes - some women earn more than men, though unfortunately not as many as there should be). IMHO tradition usually beats any of the other factors - including relative income. And I don''t like it one bit.

Right now, I can''t afford to pay. He knows I''m struggling so he wouldn''t even LET me pay.

When I was dating my ex right after college and had a steady "office" job making 3 times what I''m making now I would pay for EVERYTHING - ALL THE TIME. He had just graduated college and was getting ready to start grad school so he was broke. I even paid the bill for my own birthday dinner, which I was a bit resentful of for a while.. but anyways..

Right now, I chose a different career in which I''m just starting out and barely scraping by (partially because of the economy) so I flat out cannot afford to pick up the tab. Not to mention my BF makes 5x more money than I will ever make. If we decide to go out to eat, he knows he''s going to pay for it. It''s just a given for us right now. If he feels a place is too pricey or if he''s low on money we just won''t go out to eat.. no big deal.

If I made decent money right now and was actually able to pay all my bills with money to spare I would have no problem picking up the tab.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 12/30/2008 9:49:56 PM
Author: vslover

Date: 12/30/2008 9:50:55 AM

Author: rob09

Honestly - the argument that ''he likes to pay'' is (a) an easy way out in many occasions and (b) none of MY male friends ever told me that they always liked to pay for everything - which makes me seriously wonder about the truthfulness of that statement. In many cases they just pay because they fear that not doing so would leave a bad impression, which (unfortunately) would indeed be the case after reading quite a few postings on this topic. Do I believe that some men just pay all the time because they are 100% committed to a traditional male gender role? Sure.


But that does not equate to ''liking to pay'' IMHO either. Just a few random thoughts here ...

I was a single stay at home mom when I met DH and he LIKED taking care of me. Seriously...he knew I''d had a rough first marriage and delighted in being good to me. I did pay a couple of times (on his bday, etc) but he did then and still does like to take care of me. We''re fairly traditional in our roles and it''s how both of us like it. Maybe your friends aren''t like that and it''s ok...but your friends aren''t representative of EVERY man on the planet.

I think this brings up a good point. If one person dosn''t have money, and they want to take care of the other person, they can do it by giving their time. Yeah, my BF pays for a majority of the meals when we go out, but I cook a majority of the meals when we stay in. I am cooking while he is relaxing. Most couples are a team, and you can either divide the roles or share them. A more traditional household tends to divide the roles. So while a stay at home mom may not "pay" for dinner, she probably cooks most of the meals, does the shopping, takes care of the family. All these things are stretching the dollar of the other person (e.g. cooking vs eating out saves money). Plus, she is taking care of the man in her own way. People have different ways of showing someone they want to take care each other. For a traditional couple the man usually does this by providing, and the women does this my making a home for the family. Of course, this does not apply to all couples, but when it comes to equality, there is more to the equation than money.

 

[Deelight]

Date: 12/30/2008 6:01:28 PM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 12/30/2008 9:12:50 AM

Author: Deelight


Lara, I am an Aussie too and I will have to disagree with you there, FI is old school when it comes to things like that (and so am I) I expect my doors to be opened for me, carry my bags, pay on the first few dates etc. When we first started dating FI (then BF) would pay all the time he even paid for my friend when we went out clubbing, dinner etc which I thought was really sweet when we were still getting to know each other and went on group like dates and he meet up with us

. It was actually those things that told me a lot about him as a person and impressed me way back then before I knew him as well as I do now.

so you''re telling me I just got stuck with the ''dud'' blokes, right? Huh, typical! *sniffs* Perhaps the moral of the story then is - stay away from musicians and artists!! (My husband''s a scientist, and much nicer)

LOL nerds are the way to go he is a computer geek and I love it .

There are many duds but there are still some good Aussie blokes out there

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 12/31/2008 2:56:36 AM
Author: Deelight

LOL nerds are the way to go he is a computer geek and I love it .


There are many duds but there are still some good Aussie blokes out there

yep, that''s what I''ll be telling my girl(s)... go for the straight guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(but not the super-stingy ones of any variety lol gotta keep this thread on topic)

 

[musey]

Before my husband and I were married, we always split our dates 50/50. It was rare that either one of us would pay for the whole thing.

 

[happydreams]

Date: 12/29/2008 8:21:40 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker

Date: 12/29/2008 7:12:22 PM
Author: LaurenThePartier

Date: 12/29/2008 4:35:34 PM

Author: happydreams

I tend to think it''s only fair that the women pay half of the time. It''s nice when the guy will pick up the tab for extra things here and there, but in this day and age where most women work, there is no reason NOT to pick up the bill once in a while. Plus, I know many men think it is a turnoff when women expect to be wined and dined all the time. If I were a man, I wouldn''t want to be used as a free meal ticket, I''d like to know that things are pretty much equal between the man and woman. But I don''t complain if the BF wants to take me to a nice dinner once in a while.

This is an important point. I''m on a very heavy traffic male forum, and 90% of the threads about relationships digress into a thread about ''I wish my wife/gf/SO would offer to pick up the bill once in a while'', or ''Oh, your GF pays once in a while? She''s a keeper!''

I used to think this way until I met my BF, he does not agree that paying half is fair. I think he brings up some good points. He thinks if the couple earns an uneven income, than things should be divided up by income. That way the lower earner is not hurting to try and ''keep up.'' He pays for more of the meals because he earns more than me. I handle the groceries for cooking, and do pay for some dinners. We are trying to keep things fair for our situation. Everyone is different, and everyone figures out what works for them.

I totally agree. It depends on the couples'' situation. My BF and I earn similar amounts so we keep things even, but in case one earns less, they can make it up in other ways. (such as cooking instead of paying for the dinner bill)

 

[PrincessLily2009]

When we first started dating, my SO paid for everything, and honestly, if I ever dated a man who didn''t pay for everything for the first few dates, I wouldn''t keep seeing him. Eventually I paid for things about half the time, but it was a gradual transition. I started treating him once in awhile, and then it just became more and more frequent. (Probably because for awhile I had a much better job.) Now that my finances have taken a turn for the worse, he''s more insistent on picking up the tab, but when things get better it will go back to things being 50/50.

I paid for almost everything with my ex, but that was mostly because if he was going to be the one to pay, it was miserable. He didn''t want to spend money on anything, and he constantly complained about how much everything cost. After we broke up, I found out that he just didn''t like spending money on ME, because he spends a lot more money on his current girlfriend than he ever did on me.

 

[Erin]

Once on his birthday. However it must be dually noted that he forgot his wallet because he changed pants at the last minute. Otherwise, he might have Insisted paying for that meal, too.

Actually that''s not true. I did it one other time early on and he was pretty much irritated.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

BF and I don't go dutch on meals or anything, but we tend to make up for it - if I buy one night, he remembers and buys the next time we go out, or if I buy breakfast and we go to a museum or something, he'll get the tickets. We don't keep track but we kind of have a sense of "you've been paying for a lot lately, it's my turn."

When we first started dating though, he wanted to pay for everything! But I'm pretty headstrong about paying too - we've had waiters and waitresses laugh because as soon as they bring the check, we both make a grab for it!

 

[sklingem]

Date: 1/3/2009 12:01:20 PM
(...) honestly, if I ever dated a man who didn''t pay for everything for the first few dates, I wouldn''t keep seeing him (..)

Sorry, but that, IMHO, got us in this mess in the first place. This is what guys come to expect - and then they make the "choice" to pay for everything. Then again - guys can indeed choose to date (or not to date) women with certain values. Unfortunately after having shelled out the $$ in the first place.

 

[vslover]

Date: 1/4/2009 12:20:52 PM
Author: rob09

Date: 1/3/2009 12:01:20 PM

(...) honestly, if I ever dated a man who didn''t pay for everything for the first few dates, I wouldn''t keep seeing him (..)

Sorry, but that, IMHO, got us in this mess in the first place. This is what guys come to expect - and then they make the ''choice'' to pay for everything. Then again - guys can indeed choose to date (or not to date) women with certain values. Unfortunately after having shelled out the $$ in the first place.

It''s no different than what she said in her post...she wouldn''t date someone who didn''t share her values either. Nothing wrong with that. Chivalry''s not dead...I''ve never been out with a man who didn''t insist on paying.

 

[vintagelover229]

IF I want to go out and he doesn''t, I''ll offer to pay. Most of the time he pays though, saying that, i am a student and work part time as a hostess, so we only got o restruants that I pay 18.00 a month to get 50% off the bill at (which is TONS of resturants. Because I work for landrys INC). HE is an engineer and makes a good living, but is very frugal, which i LOVE! Because I''m a bargin shopper and love saving money as well.

Sometimes I''ll offer to get the tip though : )

 

[sklingem]

Date: 1/4/2009 12:43:21 PM
Author: vslover

Date: 1/4/2009 12:20:52 PM

Author: rob09

Date: 1/3/2009 12:01:20 PM


(...) honestly, if I ever dated a man who didn''t pay for everything for the first few dates, I wouldn''t keep seeing him (..)

Sorry, but that, IMHO, got us in this mess in the first place. This is what guys come to expect - and then they make the ''choice'' to pay for everything. Then again - guys can indeed choose to date (or not to date) women with certain values. Unfortunately after having shelled out the $$ in the first place.

It''s no different than what she said in her post...she wouldn''t date someone who didn''t share her values either. Nothing wrong with that. Chivalry''s not dead...I''ve never been out with a man who didn''t insist on paying.

That always makes me laugh - "chivalry". Same as "choice". I wished more women were straightforward about the whole thing as in "I take (and like to take)advantage of the tradition of a man paying when we go out - and by doing so, happily support and reinforce this pattern, whether (other) men like it or not". Hey - it is VERY nice and convenient!! Just say so - I have no problem with it whatsoever. But PLEASE do not sugarcoat and make it into something it is not, even if it may make you feel better/less guilty etc. And maybe you want to survey some men out there about choice/chivalry and truly wanting to pay WITHOUT feeling the pressure to do so.

 

[vslover]

Date: 1/4/2009 8:32:50 PM
Author: rob09

Date: 1/4/2009 12:43:21 PM

Author: vslover

Date: 1/4/2009 12:20:52 PM


Author: rob09

Date: 1/3/2009 12:01:20 PM



(...) honestly, if I ever dated a man who didn''t pay for everything for the first few dates, I wouldn''t keep seeing him (..)

Sorry, but that, IMHO, got us in this mess in the first place. This is what guys come to expect - and then they make the ''choice'' to pay for everything. Then again - guys can indeed choose to date (or not to date) women with certain values. Unfortunately after having shelled out the $$ in the first place.

It''s no different than what she said in her post...she wouldn''t date someone who didn''t share her values either. Nothing wrong with that. Chivalry''s not dead...I''ve never been out with a man who didn''t insist on paying.

That always makes me laugh - ''chivalry''. Same as ''choice''. I wished more women were straightforward about the whole thing as in ''I take (and like to take)advantage of the tradition of a man paying when we go out - and by doing so, happily support and reinforce this pattern, whether (other) men like it or not''. Hey - it is VERY nice and convenient!! Just say so - I have no problem with it whatsoever. But PLEASE do not sugarcoat and make it into something it is not, even if it may make you feel better/less guilty etc. And maybe you want to survey some men out there about choice/chivalry and truly wanting to pay WITHOUT feeling the pressure to do so.

I don''t care about what *other* men want...I care about what my husband and I are comfortable with...same as all the other women who have responded. There''s no "taking advantage"...there''s a relationship that works for us. lol. You kinda sound cheap and bitter.

 

[sklingem]

Date: 1/4/2009 9:18:13 PM
You kinda sound cheap and bitter.

No need for insults - I am sorry if a critical discussion of the topic has ruffled some feathers.
This does not change the fact that men paying for dates (in the beginning and sometimes for a lot longer) is a long-established tradition that women can take advantage /are taking advantage of - and are perpetuating by doing so. It is also a tradition that many men feel they have to adhere to - for the risk of (a) not getting a second date; (b) looking "cheap" or not being "chivalrous". The latter has been nicely illustrated by many postings in this thread. It is also a tradition that is actively promoted by men who do not question it - and thereby also perpetuate this arrangement. So the next time a guy pays for your meal - enjoy it and thank "tradition" for it. But please don''t assume that chivalry and true altruism are the primary motivation for it - as nice as it sounds and may make you feel. Or maybe you should - it makes things a lot easier. But that should be old news, right?

 

[vslover]

Date: 1/4/2009 10:05:43 PM
Author: rob09

Date: 1/4/2009 9:18:13 PM

You kinda sound cheap and bitter.

No need for insults - I am sorry if a critical discussion of the topic has ruffled some feathers.

This does not change the fact that men paying for dates (in the beginning and sometimes for a lot longer) is a long-established tradition that women can take advantage /are taking advantage of - and are perpetuating by doing so. It is also a tradition that many men feel they have to adhere to - for the risk of (a) not getting a second date; (b) looking ''cheap'' or not being ''chivalrous''. The latter has been nicely illustrated by many postings in this thread. It is also a tradition that is actively promoted by men who do not question it - and thereby also perpetuate this arrangement. So the next time a guy pays for your meal - enjoy it and thank ''tradition'' for it. But please don''t assume that chivalry and true altruism are the primary motivation for it - as nice as it sounds and may make you feel. Or maybe you should - it makes things a lot easier. But that should be old news, right?

The only man buying me dinner is my husband...and our money is all shared...so I have no clue what you''re talking about. I will say though that I hope you''ve found a woman as comfortable with your...ideas...as you seem to be. Question...does she ever want to stay home with kids? That''s a traditional role that many women still want...does that bother you too?

 

[ladypirate]

This thread has been interesting. K and I have a joint account, so it doesn''t matter at this point who actually whips out their wallet since everything is coming from the same place.

When we were first dating, thought, we definitely took turns paying. Even when I''ve been out on dates in the past with men who insisted on paying, I always insisted on paying for the second date. I think it''s only fair that it gets split up equitably, at least in the beginning. Once you''re in a steady relationship, it seems more fair for whoever makes the most money to pick up more of the tabs.

 

[sklingem]

Date: 1/5/2009 12:29:35 AM
Author: vslover

The only man buying me dinner is my husband...and our money is all shared...so I have no clue what you''re talking about. I will say though that I hope you''ve found a woman as comfortable with your...ideas...as you seem to be. Question...does she ever want to stay home with kids? That''s a traditional role that many women still want...does that bother you too?

Vslover - my reply was not about you or your personal situation but about the topic in general - or at least one facet of it. And I do accept your apologies for name calling - thank you. I have indeed found a woman who believes that, all things being equal, men and women should share the cost of dating-related expenses, even when it comes to first dates - she is a strong believer in equality. As for staying at home - I have no problem if EITHER a man or woman wants to stay at home if (a) they can afford it and (b) that is what both of them want. As I have said before - finding an equal arrangement is not limited to money alone.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 1/5/2009 12:29:35 AM
Author: vslover

Date: 1/4/2009 10:05:43 PM
Author: rob09

Date: 1/4/2009 9:18:13 PM

You kinda sound cheap and bitter.

No need for insults - I am sorry if a critical discussion of the topic has ruffled some feathers.

This does not change the fact that men paying for dates (in the beginning and sometimes for a lot longer) is a long-established tradition that women can take advantage /are taking advantage of - and are perpetuating by doing so. It is also a tradition that many men feel they have to adhere to - for the risk of (a) not getting a second date; (b) looking ''cheap'' or not being ''chivalrous''. The latter has been nicely illustrated by many postings in this thread. It is also a tradition that is actively promoted by men who do not question it - and thereby also perpetuate this arrangement. So the next time a guy pays for your meal - enjoy it and thank ''tradition'' for it. But please don''t assume that chivalry and true altruism are the primary motivation for it - as nice as it sounds and may make you feel. Or maybe you should - it makes things a lot easier. But that should be old news, right?

The only man buying me dinner is my husband...and our money is all shared...so I have no clue what you''re talking about. I will say though that I hope you''ve found a woman as comfortable with your...ideas...as you seem to be. Question...does she ever want to stay home with kids? That''s a traditional role that many women still want...does that bother you too?

VSLover...some things I disagree with.

First, always insisting on paying for a meal does not equal to chivalry and does not mean that if you are paying for half of meals (or whatever else) the chivalry is dead in your relationship.

Second, there was no need for the name calling. Why bother having a thread where a bunch of women discuss what men like to do versus what they don''t like without having the opinion of at least one male. What Rob is describing is not something that is uncommon amongst men and certainly does not equate to being cheap or bitter. There are a lot of men out there that do wish their women would pick up the tab and treat them out every once in a while (or half of the time). Just like there are men who don''t like the idea at all. It''s great to have his point thrown into the conversation.

I also believe that if the money is shared, as you say, then he isn''t really picking up the tab and technically you are paying for half (whether you are a SAHM or not its still half your money too).

 

[KatM]

Date: 1/4/2009 10:05:43 PM
Author: rob09

No need for insults - I am sorry if a critical discussion of the topic has ruffled some feathers.
This does not change the fact that men paying for dates (in the beginning and sometimes for a lot longer) is a long-established tradition that women can take advantage /are taking advantage of - and are perpetuating by doing so. It is also a tradition that many men feel they have to adhere to - for the risk of (a) not getting a second date; (b) looking 'cheap' or not being 'chivalrous'. The latter has been nicely illustrated by many postings in this thread. It is also a tradition that is actively promoted by men who do not question it - and thereby also perpetuate this arrangement. So the next time a guy pays for your meal - enjoy it and thank 'tradition' for it. But please don't assume that chivalry and true altruism are the primary motivation for it - as nice as it sounds and may make you feel. Or maybe you should - it makes things a lot easier. But that should be old news, right?

I think you're absolutely correct that things should be shared, I believe that too. I think it's ok for my boyfriend to want to take care of me also, as I also want to do what I can to make him feel appreciated and cared for. Honestly, I think a guy SHOULD want to take care of his girlfriend...the same way a girl SHOULD want to take care of her boyfriend. There's nothing wrong with that care coming in the form of dinners out, as long as he feels cared for too. I think that it's not so much about dinner as it is about feeling taken advantage of. As long as both people are contributing fairly to the relationship I've never really seen any hard feelings about inequality in paying for dates.

I think it definitely is a social construct, this idea that guys should pay for dates. However I also think it is a social construct that makes me feel it necessary to bake him cookies, help him fold his laundry, etc. They aren't things I mind doing because I do feel like he's an equal partner. If he was going to sit down and take inventory of everything each person contributes, however, he might not think immediately of those contributions that I make. I think it's important that before anyone might complain of feeling taken advantage of, that they really look hard at the ways in which they might be benefitting from contributions the other might make.

My aunts were talking once and they were mentioning how they always complain about how they think they do more in their marriages than their husbands do. One of them spoke up and she said that she believed that that wasnt the case, that it's just easier to think of our own contributions than is sometimes is to think of the other person's. Often the other person may feel that they are doing quite a bit that isn't being recognized, but it takes a conversation to see where each person is coming from.

 

[FrekeChild]

Interesting. I don''t believe that choice and chivalry are the same thing. For instance my FI always opens the car door for me. Not because I can''t, but because he was raised that way. It doesn''t hurt that I have a tendency to fall all over the place and I''m clumsy as all get out, and he''s trying to prevent me from smashing my fingers in the door. And he also opens the doors for me when we go into places. He does this stuff automatically and it''s not because he makes an active choice to.

Chivalry is a man going out of his way to do nice things for a woman. ANY woman. Opening doors for ladies, standing when a woman leaves or comes back to a table (which is silly in my opinion). Never have I thought of chivalry being exclusively picking up the tab. I kind of think of it as being common decency and showing a respect for your fellow human being.

FI pays for everything 95% of the time. This is because I don''t work, though. We live together and our expenses are shared. Before we were as serious as we were even a year ago, I almost felt like it was charity. But it never was. It was showing me that he cared about me, and wanted to make sure I had enough to eat (it should be mentioned here that I didn''t, at the time). On special occasions I''ll pay-for his birthday or if I have a little extra money floating around, or whatever.

For our last trip to Vegas, things were split pretty evenly. I paid for hotels and flights, and he paid for shows, food and other activities. When we came back engaged, and we both had a little extra money that we had expected to spend, and we put it immediately into our wedding fund. Because our money is shared, and any money that is spent (by either of us, and for either of us) is insuring our future. Whether that be by filling a stomach or treating me to a new pair of shoes. A happy individual makes a happier team.

I''m rambling...

 

[Bia]

My FI makes a lot more money than I do right now, so usually he pays. Sometimes I want to treat him, so I''ll pay.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I tried to pay for every meal when we go out although he still tries to fight for it. We probably end up at 50/50. I am completely debt free and I rather he use the money to pay off his debt.

 

[ckrickett]

I do agree that everything is based on the couple, or the individual. I cannot afford to pay for anything now. I'm not even making the bills. My SO knows this, sometimes he is irritated because I give up shifts at work (the shifts were I might make say 10 dollars in a 6 hour period), but he understands. He makes probably at least 4x what I make now, which is very un-nerving to me. If we go out I always ask if it's ok if I want to order something expensive, not because I need his permission, but I mean just because he is paying doesn't mean I should take advantage of it. I always say thank you (he actually gets annoyed because I say thank you for everything). He also will get me little things I want, extra snacks at the grocery store I used to buy for myself, and we both have expensive nerd habits and he pays for everything, even tho he doesn't have to. As soon as I get a better job damn well better believe I'm taking him out to a delicious meal and I will foot the whole bill, and do so more often, but right now I can't.

alot of other couples are in the SAME position, it's a trial, we all go through them. What you do makes it better, and how generous he is with me shows me he truly cares. And when he doesn't have to be that generous anymore it will be great, because I know he would be.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Quick addition to my post- I''m pretty sure BF has paid for every special occasion meal thus far (anniversary, Valentine''s, my birthday, etc.)

 

[4ever]

He pays usually, but that''s becuase he has a full time job and I''m a poor student. When I have a job too I think it will be aot more even.