Hi I''m new with a long story

[lulu]

I''m very sorry if your feelings are hurt. I reread your original post and frankly I still feel pp and the others are right. Either he wants to get married or he doesn''t. And after 9 years he should know. I would have been out of there a long time ago. Say he does propose, how many years til the wedding? If marriage isn''t important to you it doesn''t matter. If it does ...

 

[ringless]

Ok, read how long you were together and needed to reply. I have been with my beau for almost 8 years, it will be 8 in September. I definitely know how you feel. Aside from your bf not wanting to get married in the past, our relationships/proposal talk is a little similar. I am now waiting and think it will happen for me this summer, he's been saving for a while, etc. but leading up to it has been rough. Has your bf been saving for a ring? Has he said he hasn't been able to afford it? Perhaps not going on vacations and stuff may help it happen sooner?
I think as girls usually do we compare with what others have, etc. it's so hard being LIW, especially when we've been with our bf's for so long. I too get the shocked look on people's faces when we tell them how long we've been together, but it honestly doesn't bother me anymore. I would have a nice, serious talk with your bf and let him know you dont want to pressure him, you want it to happen when the timing is right for the both of you. You never know, he may have something up his sleeve, but with some guys (like my bf as well) they think we ruin the suprise when we ask about it so much, so try to keep mum about wedding talk after you have THE talk again (nothing emotional or yelling, etc. just calm). Best of luck and keep us informed!

 

[tlh]

I agree with PP. Sorry your feelings have been hurt and you are now on the defensive as you feel you and your relationship have been attacked. 9 years is long enough for someone to know if you want to be together with someone.... but that said, you guys started dating at 17-18? That is pretty young. You do a lot of growing up in those early years...

So, it could take him a lot longer to settle down if he never had his wild crazy days... if that makes any sense. Though, honestly, his days aren''t going to be wild and crazy if he is still with you, whether he''s 27 or 30... so I don''t really see his point in stalling or waiting. I''m not trying to be disrespectful... but if all it is to him is a piece of paper... and it is EVERYTHING to you... why is it so hard for him to just go and get married? I guess I find that a bit of a flimsy excuse. There is something a lot more deep rooted than you are actually paying attention to... or seeing. Once you get to the bottom of what his real fear is... maybe you two can move forward. It is like Dr Phil ? (sorry ladies) said... "the only thing worse than staying in a dead end relationship for 9 years, is staying in a dead end relationship for 9 years and a day." I''m not saying that you relationship is bad, I''m sure it is great -- all but this ONE thing, right? Well... this ONE thing can be a dealbreaker... and here''s the question... would you be ok with everything knowing you''ll never get married? If you hit 30... lost your entire 20''s to someone you love and built a future with... and then Nothing? No proposal, no nothing?

Sorry if I sound harsh, but someone I care for very closely, wasted 7 years with someone who she tried to convince to marry her. Yes they were great together in spite of the fact he didn''t want to get married, or have children.... then you know what happened... he left her. I wish I WISH she was strong enough to have LEFT HIM... but she wasn''t. And him leaving her was the best thing that EVER happened to her even though she was devastated... and you know what... 2 years after that she meets the man of her dreams, and only SIX MONTHS into that relationship he proposes... and the dude from 7 years ago finally had his lightbulb turned on and he came running back to her BEGGING for her to take him back... WITH A RING in his hand. Too late, bub. Now I''m not saying you are my friend... but what I am saying is - you need to figure out the hiccup. You need to put some stock into yourself, and give your wants and needs value. I''m not talking timelines here... I''m talking there is a HUGE disconnect... and someone throwing a proposal into your face like he did was CHILDISH. So he has not grown up yet... what IS IT? Ask yourself these questions, and ask them of him. Also, just out of curiousity... was this your first serious boyfriend ever and vice versa? I ask because often times our first relationships we put up with a lot more crud than we ever would after a few relationships are under the belt...

So I just wanted to give you a hug. It sounds like you are conflicted and hurting right now. I know you love him, and I am not questioning his love for you... I am just trying to reflect back what you''ve posted... which is... IS HE EVER GOING TO MARRY YOU... and WILL YOU BE HAPPY AS HIS GIRLFRIEND FOREVER? IF HE NEVER MARRIES YOU?

 

[DLSecret]

I know I''m late to the party, but just want to add a different perspective on things.

It seems that whenever a guy says he''s not ready for marriage or "it will happen somewhere down the road", it''s viewed as being manipulative and trying to keep the girl "in line" (whatever that means). But if that''s how we''re going to look at things, we can also say the girl is being manipulative by crying and making threats ("You aren''t going to sit around like a servant hoping that Master will bestow some new title of engaged person"). If anything, this is MORE a form of manipulation as you are trying to change, or manipulate, the current situation into something that you desire.

Relationships are supposed to have open communication and honesty, yet honest self expressions such as "I''m not ready for marriage" and "I''m not considering marriage until I''m 30" are rejected for some reason and deemed invalid points. And when a guy shows some frustration regarding repetitive conversations, it''s as if he''s committed some unforgivable sin. Imagine if someone tries to convince you how you feel about something is wrong on a daily basis, you''d be pretty irritated too.

Victoria, I''m not going to pretend I know how you feel. But I can imagine that after 9 years, you feel like there should be some tangible progression of your relationship. Add on top of that the pressure to conform to social norms, you probably feel like an anxiety attack coming on anytime anything regarding marriage comes up. Don''t let how long you''ve been together cloud how you feel about your relationship. Also, You shouldn''t feel like you''d blown your "only" chance of getting a proposal, because there is no such thing. It''s entirely possible that "to think I was going to propose in China" was just all BS. But it''s also possible that he wanted it to be a surprise and feels it''s no longer possible to be that way. I mean, no one like planning a surprise birthday party when the birthday boy/girl already knows about it. I''m sure he''ll be working on a plan B. I had to change my proposal plan twice within a two-week period because my fiancee kept accidentally blowing up my spot. I know it''s easier said than done, but give it a little break and revisit this subject a couple months down the line.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 6/2/2009 11:25:00 AM
Author: DLSecret


Relationships are supposed to have open communication and honesty, yet honest self expressions such as ''I''m not ready for marriage'' and ''I''m not considering marriage until I''m 30'' are rejected for some reason and deemed invalid points. And when a guy shows some frustration regarding repetitive conversations, it''s as if he''s committed some unforgivable sin. Imagine if someone tries to convince you how you feel about something is wrong on a daily basis, you''d be pretty irritated too.

I agree 100%. For me personally I don''t think there is anything wrong or manipulative about being honest. If you aren''t ready for marriage, then you aren''t ready. He''s entitled to want to wait.

Victoria-I think the issue I have with this scenario is that he''s being honest and you aren''t listening. He''s already stated his position and it doesn''t sound like it will change any time soon. It''s time that you start listening and be honest with yourself. If you truly love him as you say and "don''t want to throw away 9 years" then your option as of right now is to get marriage out of your mind and focus on your relationship as is. Focusing on marriage will not do anything but frustrate the both of you. But if marriage is truly something that you want and that you want right now then you need to be honest with yourself and realize that your partner is not the one to acheive that goal with right now.

I also think you need to ask yourself this very important question: if he never proposes to me, will I still be happy with him?

 

[miss_flo]

Date: 6/2/2009 11:25:00 AM
Author: DLSecret
I know I'm late to the party, but just want to add a different perspective on things.


It seems that whenever a guy says he's not ready for marriage or 'it will happen somewhere down the road', it's viewed as being manipulative and trying to keep the girl 'in line' (whatever that means). But if that's how we're going to look at things, we can also say the girl is being manipulative by crying and making threats ('You aren't going to sit around like a servant hoping that Master will bestow some new title of engaged person'). If anything, this is MORE a form of manipulation as you are trying to change, or manipulate, the current situation into something that you desire.


Relationships are supposed to have open communication and honesty, yet honest self expressions such as 'I'm not ready for marriage' and 'I'm not considering marriage until I'm 30' are rejected for some reason and deemed invalid points. And when a guy shows some frustration regarding repetitive conversations, it's as if he's committed some unforgivable sin. Imagine if someone tries to convince you how you feel about something is wrong on a daily basis, you'd be pretty irritated too.

I agree. It's not wrong to want to wait until a particular age or goal in life, but it IS a problem when that preference is not communicated soon enough. I've been guilty of the pouty LIW whining, but it took me a year to realize how unacceptable my behavior was. Now that I'm aware of it, I've stopped. We girlfriends are not the composed, patient, docile creatures we'd like to be during this time, and most of us are well-intentioned. However, there ARE also women who force their boyfriends to get engaged before they're ready and that's totally not fair.

Victoria, I've BTDT with some ladies here jumping to conclusions about my relationship too. Just keep in mind that everyone is well-intentioned, and their advice is often colored by their own personal traumas, biases and stories. You're still in a safe place to vent about your feelings, but now you know how hard it is to communicate these complex problems to strangers.

I would never encourage you to break up with your boyfriend since I know so little about you, but I -would- suggest a strengthening of communication and clarification. It's okay to be a little emotional during those conversations, but it's not okay to give guilt trips or make him feel wrong for wanting to wait. If your personal time lines are incompatible you can't change that, but you CAN determine if it's a workable incompatibility or not.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that a good, reassuring conversation is in the near future for you and FF. Please keep us posted, and thank you again for checking in. Huge hugs girl.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/2/2009 11:25:00 AM
Author: DLSecret

Victoria, I''m not going to pretend I know how you feel. But I can imagine that after 9 years, you feel like there should be some tangible progression of your relationship. Add on top of that the pressure to conform to social norms, you probably feel like an anxiety attack coming on anytime anything regarding marriage comes up. Don''t let how long you''ve been together cloud how you feel about your relationship. Also, You shouldn''t feel like you''d blown your ''only'' chance of getting a proposal, because there is no such thing. It''s entirely possible that ''to think I was going to propose in China'' was just all BS. But it''s also possible that he wanted it to be a surprise and feels it''s no longer possible to be that way. I mean, no one like planning a surprise birthday party when the birthday boy/girl already knows about it. I''m sure he''ll be working on a plan B. I had to change my proposal plan twice within a two-week period because my fiancee kept accidentally blowing up my spot. I know it''s easier said than done, but give it a little break and revisit this subject a couple months down the line.

Bingo. That was my first thought. He threw it at her in anger, when he wasn''t really seriously thinking of doing it at all and now is backtracking.

And to the following point:

Date: 6/2/2009 12:21:19 PM
Author: news_girl


Victoria, I''ve BTDT with some ladies here jumping to conclusions about my relationship too. Just keep in mind that everyone is well-intentioned, and their advice is often colored by their own personal traumas, biases and stories. You''re still in a safe place to vent about your feelings, but now you know how hard it is to communicate these complex problems to strangers.

Um, uh, and a the same story (and result) posted here and on LIW forums everywhere, time and time again where people ignore the signs and think their situation is truly different.

 

[purrfectpear]

If you read my post carefully Victoria you''ll see that nowhere did I suggest you should leave your BF.

What I did say is that you need to have a calm discussion with him. Calm means no tears, no voice raising, begging, pleading, or anger.

The mere fact that you believe you need a summer of not discussing marriage or engagement in order to "get back to where he might consider proposing" is pretty telling.

Basically what I get from your post is that there are only two alternatives;

1. Pretend I don''t have engagement/marriage on the mind, and don''t bring it up at all.

2. Cry and argue about engagement/marriage attempting to manipulate him.

I would put forth the idea that two people who are mature enough to join lives MUST be able to discuss things and not pretend they don''t exist in order to "not rock the boat".

You should have 100% confidence in the fact that your guy can sit down this week and have a calm rational discussion with timelines about your future, without him avoiding, yelling, or saying things like "don''t rock the boat", "don''t pressure me".

If he can''t talk about it, or doesn''t want to talk about it, then please stop pretending that things will be OK and magic fairy dust will appear by your silence. That is all.

 

[princesss]

DLSecret, I think you''ll find that most of us encourage honest communication and open discussions on this. I can''t remember anybody on here promoting crying fits (which I agree can be manipulative) or threats. I just think that he''s honestly saying where he''s at (he''s not ready) but I think he''s worried she''ll leave and he might be pressuring himself to be ready because he does love her. But sometimes people are in totally different places, and I think it''s usually best to cut your losses and move on if that''s the case.

 

[luckystar112]

Yup....first thought was that he was bluffing about the "ruined" proposal in China.

 

[DLSecret]

Date: 6/2/2009 2:31:25 PM
Author: princesss
DLSecret, I think you''ll find that most of us encourage honest communication and open discussions on this. I can''t remember anybody on here promoting crying fits (which I agree can be manipulative) or threats. I just think that he''s honestly saying where he''s at (he''s not ready) but I think he''s worried she''ll leave and he might be pressuring himself to be ready because he does love her. But sometimes people are in totally different places, and I think it''s usually best to cut your losses and move on if that''s the case.

The OP mentioned that she cried during their arguments about marriage. While she might not had intended for it to be a way to manipulate him but was just simply emotional, rest assured that he certainly perceived it to be manipulative. As for threats, it seems to be the general consensus on this board to "recommend" telling the guy in question "if you don''t marry me by _______, I''m walking out the door". While the effectiveness of this is debatable, it is absolutely considered a threat, and anyone on the receiving end of that will perceive it as one.

Don''t get me wrong, I''m not saying that Victoria should stay with her partner no questions asked. Absolutely not. But whether she leaves her partner or not is a decision she should make after evaluating their relationship and their goals, not whether or not he gives in to her demand.

While examples of what happened to neighbor''s cousin''s best friend''s college roommate might be helpful in providing a scenario, it''s certainly no indicative of everyone. Otherwise, we should all cite the fact that half of all marriages end in divorce and just never get married in the first place. Situations might be similar, but there are lots of factors that are different. For example, who suggested to buy the house together? Was it Victoria, or her partner, or did they mutually come to that agreement? Does she cry every time they have a disagreement? Does he regularly say things like "I was going to do XYZ, but not any more"? What are their financial situations? What is their relationship like with each side of the family? The answer to each of these could paint a different picture.

 

[victoria83]

Date: 6/2/2009 9:57:14 AM
Author: lulu
I''m very sorry if your feelings are hurt. I reread your original post and frankly I still feel pp and the others are right. Either he wants to get married or he doesn''t. And after 9 years he should know. I would have been out of there a long time ago. Say he does propose, how many years til the wedding? If marriage isn''t important to you it doesn''t matter. If it does ...

He DOES know he wants to marry me, he just doesn''t feel that the time is right, until recently when he has felt (in his words) "more ready than ever". I do think 9 years is too long to wait, and I hate the fact he hasn''t given me a timeline, but I cannot force him into it, if I put pressure on him it will push him away.

 

[victoria83]

Date: 6/1/2009 5:13:33 PM
Author: allycat0303
victoria83,

I think what sold it for many of us (me included) was that during an argument he threw the fact that he was going to propose during this trip in your face. And the worst part is that you feel like you have ruined *your one chance at a proposal*. If he is really committed to being married to you, you could not have ruined your *one chance at a proposal* you wouldn''t even be worried about it. AND he knows how much marriage means to you, you''ve said it over, and over, and cried in front of him, and he finds an opportunity to hurt you with it. If this is a one time occurence, then it''s ok, but from the sound of your first post, your feelings about this have been going on from 3 years. I don''t know how you''ve been able to endure this.

Maybe I was a bit dramatic saying my "one chance" at proposal, what I meant was I''d been waiting for what felt like forever, then found out it was actually coming soon, only to be taken away from me. I know this is not my one chance, I just pray that it will be soon because I cannot bear the feeling. I don''t know how I''ve endured it either.

 

[victoria83]

Date: 6/1/2009 6:06:07 PM
Author: Squirrly

Date: 6/1/2009 5:24:28 PM
Author: victoria83
Don''t worry you did not upset me at all

i''m glad, and the next time you''re crying had best be because he''s proposing. or else. i''m not quite sure what else is yet, but i''m sure i can think of something...

so nine years? wow, that''s a pretty incredible relationship for someone who''s not so patient

i don''t think you''re giving yourself near enough credit on the patience bit! you''re just being modest. so, how did you two meet? i bet you have some awesome stories

oh and him moving towards proposal from saying marriage is just a piece of paper is a pretty big step, so congratulations on that. my FF''s mom had two divorces so we''ve been working on making marriage less scary, though this has only come up once the reality of it drawing closer hit him. hard. like a truck, if not a whole caravan...

can his best friend help ya out some on calming your boy down? i have a great cookie recipe if you need some bribing material

and definitely tell us some more about yourself and this FF of yours, i am horribly nosy after all

We met at college We''ve been through a lot together, had good times and bad (mostly good!). His parents have been happily married for over 30 years so hopefully that is a good sign!

 

[victoria83]

Date: 6/2/2009 12:08:17 AM
Author: 16ocean

ooh Squirrly what’s the cookie recipe? Sounds yummy . . . .

Victoria-
Glad to see you back I have a question about what you said in an earlier post
without the stress of marriage talk
Why is talking about marriage with the person you love so stressful?

I am not going to throw away 9 years with the love of my life, because we haven''t taken the next step yet.

I am not saying you need to break up with the bf. What you do is your decision.
But PLEASE know if you stay with your bf for the rest of your life or break up tomorrow regardless of what path you take the past years are not to be ''throw away''.

Take what you have learnt in the past decade to make yourself and even more amazing woman.

It is only stressful when I get emotional about it. We do occasionally talk about what our wedding will be like, where we would go on honeymoon etc. and it does reassure me.

 

[victoria83]

Date: 6/2/2009 2:21:20 AM
Author: letthesunshine
Hi Victoria -

I am sorry to read you story and I can feel your pain, it seems like marriage is everywhere when you are at that stage in your life. I totally understand how you felt about other''s reponses to your initial post, I read them and thought wow, no one is seeing the other side. There are certain points I agree with on both sides.

I have been with my boyfriend for almost 6 years and we live together in a rented apartment, but a lot of my friends ask me ''why would he want to marry you if you he already has everything?'' The truth is is that he does not already have everything. I had a discussion with my BF about this and he told me it is far from true. Sure there are probably some guys out there that are like that, but you have been together 9 years so there has to be a good connection or else one of you would have ended it awhile ago. My BF told me that just because we live together and do everything any married couple will do does not mean that he has everything. He said that when people tell me that they are wrong because the one thing he doesn''t have is knowing that I am his forever.

It is difficult for me to talk to my BF about marriage too because I dont want to be too pushy and push him into it but I also want to know that it is eventually coming down the road. The easiest way for me to ask this was point blank, I said ''Do you love me?'' to which he replied yes and i asked ''Do you want to marry me someday?'' and took it from there.

When it all comes down to it, you know your relationship with your BF the best. Even though you may think this is a good place to vent, which it sometimes is, take things with a grain of salt because everyone''s experiences are different. I like to hear what people have to say on this forum and think it through for a couple of days and form my own opinion.

Take Care!

I think my problem is I try not to be too pushy but end up bottling up my feelings and taking it out on him. I think it''s much better to vent on here!

 

[Squirrly]

i just thought about this, but do they have common-law marriage where you live? if so you might be married in the eyes of the gov''t already and he doesn''t even know that. not that you should probably tell him, but it''s kinda funny to picture you telling him "honey, we''re already married according to the gov''t"

maybe someday far in the future after all is nice and calm you can point out to him how while he wasn''t ready for married you two were in one way

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/2/2009 3:07:55 PM
Author: DLSecret

Date: 6/2/2009 2:31:25 PM
Author: princesss
DLSecret, I think you''ll find that most of us encourage honest communication and open discussions on this. I can''t remember anybody on here promoting crying fits (which I agree can be manipulative) or threats. I just think that he''s honestly saying where he''s at (he''s not ready) but I think he''s worried she''ll leave and he might be pressuring himself to be ready because he does love her. But sometimes people are in totally different places, and I think it''s usually best to cut your losses and move on if that''s the case.

The OP mentioned that she cried during their arguments about marriage. While she might not had intended for it to be a way to manipulate him but was just simply emotional, rest assured that he certainly perceived it to be manipulative. As for threats, it seems to be the general consensus on this board to ''recommend'' telling the guy in question ''if you don''t marry me by _______, I''m walking out the door''. While the effectiveness of this is debatable, it is absolutely considered a threat, and anyone on the receiving end of that will perceive it as one.

Don''t get me wrong, I''m not saying that Victoria should stay with her partner no questions asked. Absolutely not. But whether she leaves her partner or not is a decision she should make after evaluating their relationship and their goals, not whether or not he gives in to her demand.

While examples of what happened to neighbor''s cousin''s best friend''s college roommate might be helpful in providing a scenario, it''s certainly no indicative of everyone. Otherwise, we should all cite the fact that half of all marriages end in divorce and just never get married in the first place. Situations might be similar, but there are lots of factors that are different. For example, who suggested to buy the house together? Was it Victoria, or her partner, or did they mutually come to that agreement? Does she cry every time they have a disagreement? Does he regularly say things like ''I was going to do XYZ, but not any more''? What are their financial situations? What is their relationship like with each side of the family? The answer to each of these could paint a different picture.

I totally agree. All that information could change the story. I have stated more than once that I don''t like the idea of deadlines, but I think having an idea of how long you''re willing to wait is a good thing. If that''s forever, awesome. If that''s 6 months, awesome. But I think open, honest communication is key to having a good relationship.

 

[victoria83]

Date: 6/2/2009 10:59:55 AM
Author: tlh
I agree with PP. Sorry your feelings have been hurt and you are now on the defensive as you feel you and your relationship have been attacked. 9 years is long enough for someone to know if you want to be together with someone.... but that said, you guys started dating at 17-18? That is pretty young. You do a lot of growing up in those early years...

So, it could take him a lot longer to settle down if he never had his wild crazy days... if that makes any sense. Though, honestly, his days aren''t going to be wild and crazy if he is still with you, whether he''s 27 or 30... so I don''t really see his point in stalling or waiting. I''m not trying to be disrespectful... but if all it is to him is a piece of paper... and it is EVERYTHING to you... why is it so hard for him to just go and get married? I guess I find that a bit of a flimsy excuse. There is something a lot more deep rooted than you are actually paying attention to... or seeing. Once you get to the bottom of what his real fear is... maybe you two can move forward. It is like Dr Phil ? (sorry ladies) said... ''the only thing worse than staying in a dead end relationship for 9 years, is staying in a dead end relationship for 9 years and a day.'' I''m not saying that you relationship is bad, I''m sure it is great -- all but this ONE thing, right? Well... this ONE thing can be a dealbreaker... and here''s the question... would you be ok with everything knowing you''ll never get married? If you hit 30... lost your entire 20''s to someone you love and built a future with... and then Nothing? No proposal, no nothing?

Sorry if I sound harsh, but someone I care for very closely, wasted 7 years with someone who she tried to convince to marry her. Yes they were great together in spite of the fact he didn''t want to get married, or have children.... then you know what happened... he left her. I wish I WISH she was strong enough to have LEFT HIM... but she wasn''t. And him leaving her was the best thing that EVER happened to her even though she was devastated... and you know what... 2 years after that she meets the man of her dreams, and only SIX MONTHS into that relationship he proposes... and the dude from 7 years ago finally had his lightbulb turned on and he came running back to her BEGGING for her to take him back... WITH A RING in his hand. Too late, bub. Now I''m not saying you are my friend... but what I am saying is - you need to figure out the hiccup. You need to put some stock into yourself, and give your wants and needs value. I''m not talking timelines here... I''m talking there is a HUGE disconnect... and someone throwing a proposal into your face like he did was CHILDISH. So he has not grown up yet... what IS IT? Ask yourself these questions, and ask them of him. Also, just out of curiousity... was this your first serious boyfriend ever and vice versa? I ask because often times our first relationships we put up with a lot more crud than we ever would after a few relationships are under the belt...

So I just wanted to give you a hug. It sounds like you are conflicted and hurting right now. I know you love him, and I am not questioning his love for you... I am just trying to reflect back what you''ve posted... which is... IS HE EVER GOING TO MARRY YOU... and WILL YOU BE HAPPY AS HIS GIRLFRIEND FOREVER? IF HE NEVER MARRIES YOU?

I appreciate what you are saying but he hasn''t once said to me he NEVER wants to get married, and yes I am prepared to wait around as his girlfriend until that day happens, but I wont wait forever. Yeah he is my first serious partner and vice versa, sometimes I wonder if things would have been different if we dated other people before, but I like the fact that I am still with my first love. We actually did break up a few years into the relationship, for about 4 months. I tried dating other men but found them to be immature, overly-sensitive, childish and controlling, no matter what their age. It might not seem like it from my first post but I have found someone really special in him and I do not want to let that go.

 

[Squirrly]

Date: 6/2/2009 3:25:52 PM
Author: victoria83
We met at college We''ve been through a lot together, had good times and bad (mostly good!). His parents have been happily married for over 30 years so hopefully that is a good sign!

definitely a good sign!

 

[victoria83]

Date: 6/2/2009 10:59:26 AM
Author: ringless
Ok, read how long you were together and needed to reply. I have been with my beau for almost 8 years, it will be 8 in September. I definitely know how you feel. Aside from your bf not wanting to get married in the past, our relationships/proposal talk is a little similar. I am now waiting and think it will happen for me this summer, he''s been saving for a while, etc. but leading up to it has been rough. Has your bf been saving for a ring? Has he said he hasn''t been able to afford it? Perhaps not going on vacations and stuff may help it happen sooner?
I think as girls usually do we compare with what others have, etc. it''s so hard being LIW, especially when we''ve been with our bf''s for so long. I too get the shocked look on people''s faces when we tell them how long we''ve been together, but it honestly doesn''t bother me anymore. I would have a nice, serious talk with your bf and let him know you dont want to pressure him, you want it to happen when the timing is right for the both of you. You never know, he may have something up his sleeve, but with some guys (like my bf as well) they think we ruin the suprise when we ask about it so much, so try to keep mum about wedding talk after you have THE talk again (nothing emotional or yelling, etc. just calm). Best of luck and keep us informed!

He hasn''t been saving for a ring (as far as I know) but we have been ok financially this last year, I am settled in my job and he''s had a couple of promotions since we moved in together. He could easily save for a ring in a couple of months without me knowing, he''s actually asked us to cut back lately anyway as there have been redundancies at his company and he wants to prepare in case the worst happens.

I do compare what we have to other people a lot. Most people I know who are engaged have been together 2-3 years, which is perfectly acceptable, but it makes me ask what is so wrong with me. I wish I wasn''t bothered about the look of shock from other people, cos it instantly makes me angry at my boyfriend. It annoys me when people ask ME why I am not engaged, or why I don''t want to get married - as if it is my choice!

He is working away at the moment, I''m going to have a proper chat with him when he gets back, then try to stop pressuring him and dropping hints (which will be hard because I don''t know I am doing it half the time). I will let you know how things progress

 

[victoria83]

Date: 6/2/2009 3:07:55 PM
Author: DLSecret

Date: 6/2/2009 2:31:25 PM
Author: princesss
DLSecret, I think you''ll find that most of us encourage honest communication and open discussions on this. I can''t remember anybody on here promoting crying fits (which I agree can be manipulative) or threats. I just think that he''s honestly saying where he''s at (he''s not ready) but I think he''s worried she''ll leave and he might be pressuring himself to be ready because he does love her. But sometimes people are in totally different places, and I think it''s usually best to cut your losses and move on if that''s the case.

The OP mentioned that she cried during their arguments about marriage. While she might not had intended for it to be a way to manipulate him but was just simply emotional, rest assured that he certainly perceived it to be manipulative. As for threats, it seems to be the general consensus on this board to ''recommend'' telling the guy in question ''if you don''t marry me by _______, I''m walking out the door''. While the effectiveness of this is debatable, it is absolutely considered a threat, and anyone on the receiving end of that will perceive it as one.

Don''t get me wrong, I''m not saying that Victoria should stay with her partner no questions asked. Absolutely not. But whether she leaves her partner or not is a decision she should make after evaluating their relationship and their goals, not whether or not he gives in to her demand.

While examples of what happened to neighbor''s cousin''s best friend''s college roommate might be helpful in providing a scenario, it''s certainly no indicative of everyone. Otherwise, we should all cite the fact that half of all marriages end in divorce and just never get married in the first place. Situations might be similar, but there are lots of factors that are different. For example, who suggested to buy the house together? Was it Victoria, or her partner, or did they mutually come to that agreement? Does she cry every time they have a disagreement? Does he regularly say things like ''I was going to do XYZ, but not any more''? What are their financial situations? What is their relationship like with each side of the family? The answer to each of these could paint a different picture.

I definitely don''t believe in deadlines. If I did give one and he proposed, I would always feel I had pushed him into it. I want him to do it of his own free will, within a reasonable amount of time. I would be happy to wait til maybe this time next year, but no longer. If it hadn''t happened by them we would need a serious talk, but I would not be issuing deadlines.

 

[victoria83]

To those who think so, he did not "bluff" about the proposal plans. It was said in the heat of the moment and he truly regrets it, so much that he cried. He was stupid for doing it but he is not the type to make things up like that.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 6/2/2009 3:56:10 PM
Author: victoria83
To those who think so, he did not ''bluff'' about the proposal plans. It was said in the heat of the moment and he truly regrets it, so much that he cried. He was stupid for doing it but he is not the type to make things up like that.

Was he planning on proposing without a ring?

 

[victoria83]

Date: 6/2/2009 4:06:13 PM
Author: fiery

Date: 6/2/2009 3:56:10 PM
Author: victoria83
To those who think so, he did not ''bluff'' about the proposal plans. It was said in the heat of the moment and he truly regrets it, so much that he cried. He was stupid for doing it but he is not the type to make things up like that.

Was he planning on proposing without a ring?

No, the proposal was meant to be this coming September, and he had started looking at rings.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 6/2/2009 4:19:04 PM
Author: victoria83

Date: 6/2/2009 4:06:13 PM
Author: fiery

Date: 6/2/2009 3:56:10 PM
Author: victoria83
To those who think so, he did not ''bluff'' about the proposal plans. It was said in the heat of the moment and he truly regrets it, so much that he cried. He was stupid for doing it but he is not the type to make things up like that.

Was he planning on proposing without a ring?

No, the proposal was meant to be this coming September, and he had started looking at rings.

Oh I see. Not that there would have been a problem with proposing without a ring but I was confused for a second.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 6/2/2009 3:07:55 PM
Author: DLSecret


The OP mentioned that she cried during their arguments about marriage. While she might not had intended for it to be a way to manipulate him but was just simply emotional, rest assured that he certainly perceived it to be manipulative. As for threats, it seems to be the general consensus on this board to 'recommend' telling the guy in question 'if you don't marry me by _______, I'm walking out the door'. While the effectiveness of this is debatable, it is absolutely considered a threat, and anyone on the receiving end of that will perceive it as one.

I've never seen anyone on this forum recommend that. If there's a consensus, it would be NOT to do that. What lots of ladies recommend is having an internal deadline when a woman knows that she's had enough and it's time for her to move on to find someone who shares the same goals/ morals regarding marriage.

ETA - Victoria, I don't have any advice for you. Just wishing you the best.

 

[Rivkah]

I''m in a similar situation. I have not been with my BF for quite that long; only 3.5 years. He does not want marriage, it scares him. There''s no point in getting married in his eyes. Me being a typical female who needs support, family, security, etc., holds marriage important. At least engagement- some form, symbol, of serious commitment.

I give you mad props for holding on as long as you have. But I do understand a lot of the initial responses; what they said is what I have been feeling toward my BF.

Although I understand that he, my BF, has some sort of phobia toward commitment, I am not willing to be as patient as you have been. I have become a lot more independent- mostly due to my BF being emotionally unavailable when I have needed support. I don''t need his support emotionally anymore. I''m at a point where, as much as it hurts, I am thinking of moving on.

A few weeks ago I was fine with the fact that he will not become engaged with me. Our relationship beyond that is just awesome. Even if I got engaged I would not want to marry for at least three or four years; because of how well we work together, I thought I''d stay with him until I am done with grad school and if he still cannot commit then...then I would leave. If I don''t need marriage now, don''t want marriage now, why stress it until the time is right? We work right now, and I want to enjoy it.

And onto why I want to leave. I don''t know if he will ever be ready for engagement or marriage. He''s not young. He''s at an age where he should want to settle down. I understand his past, I understand what psychologically is in the way. But though I understand that, I know darn well that I am one heck of a catch. I would think that despite his issues he''d want to secure me as his for the rest of his life. Even though our relationship is great right now, I don''t know if I can live with the possibility that I will leave him after grad school. Why not cut my losses right now? Tell him his worry was right all along, that I did get sick of him.

There are so many people around me getting married and I am beyond happy for them. But being with my current BF leaves me feeling like it is something I will never get. It''s beyond frustrating. And, honestly, it''s frustrating hearing ladies who have men who are ready to commit- who have bought a ring- be impatient that the ring is somewhere other than their left hands and they want the proposal now. I''d love to be in that situation! At least I would know that, yes, he really did want to marry me. (though I do understand how him having the ring and waiting would be pretty frustrating.)

I digress.

So, I know, either I cut my losses now or enjoy the ride for a couple more years. We''ll be moving to a different apartment soon so I have a couple months to decide if I really want to keep living with him or not.

Victoria, besides your feeling that he is the one (a feeling I have about my BF), what has kept you around? How have you dealt with the feeling that it would be years until he proposes? Relationships are about compromises, I understand that. And you being in a somewhat similar situation, I''d love to hear how you''ve managed for so long.

 

[blueroses]

Oh, Victoria--just want to send you ((((HUGS))).

I don't have much advice that's any different than those the other ladies have offered. Your situation/perspective sounds a great deal like mine used to be. (I have a long and storied LIW history ...was with my ex for 10 years (22-32), a lot of similarities in what was said/expected/argued) and we finally got engaged and then we broke up shortly thereafter for good.

I totally know what you're talking about when you respond to people around you getting engaged after a couple of years and you're like, "hey, what about me?!" And then people actually ask you....the WORST. I'm sorry

In *my* case (I can't possibly speak for yours) the ex's saying "someday" and "soon" and "not yet" were code for what he couldn't admit to himself. He didn't want to lose me, but he wasn't ready to (ever) marry me either. Only you know what your situation truly is. I'll just say that--even though you don't want to be deadline girl (neither did I)--you are not powerless here. You have choices too--they just might not be the choices you want right now. Maybe consider giving YOURSELF an internal deadline. Maybe have one calm, final, lay it on the table, "you know where I stand" conversation--and then stop bringing it up for a while. But don't sell yourself short....you know that you don't want to wait forever, so just be fair to you too.

I know the anguish you're going through right now, and I'm sorry. Just know that it is going to have a happy ending, one way or the other: either 1) He gets ready and you get engaged --or-- 2) this is the process you have to endure to meet the guy you're actually meant to be with. I hope for your sake that it's #1!! (For me it was #2 and I am over-the-moon grateful that that was my path, even with the pain it caused.)

Hang in there--this is a great place for support....even if some of it seems like tough love, it's good perspective. Only you know what's in your heart and your relationship.

((HUGS))

(ETA: Rivkah--you hang in there too, girl!)

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/2/2009 4:33:26 PM
Author: lucyandroger

Date: 6/2/2009 3:07:55 PM
Author: DLSecret


The OP mentioned that she cried during their arguments about marriage. While she might not had intended for it to be a way to manipulate him but was just simply emotional, rest assured that he certainly perceived it to be manipulative. As for threats, it seems to be the general consensus on this board to ''recommend'' telling the guy in question ''if you don''t marry me by _______, I''m walking out the door''. While the effectiveness of this is debatable, it is absolutely considered a threat, and anyone on the receiving end of that will perceive it as one.

I''ve never seen anyone on this forum recommend that. If there''s a consensus, it would be NOT to do that. What lots of ladies recommend is having an internal deadline when a woman knows that she''s had enough and it''s time for her to move on to find someone who shares the same goals/ morals regarding marriage.

ETA - Victoria, I don''t have any advice for you. Just wishing you the best.

This.

I''ve never witnessed anyone telling someone to give their boyfriend and ultimatum. It''s all about loving yourself enough to know when you''ve had enough. Set an internal deadline of the absolute latest you are willing to wait for him to propose and if he misses it.....seeyoulaterbye. Don''t tell anyone what your deadline is....it''s no one''s business but your own.
Victoria, you claimed that you hate it when people ask you why you''re not enaged, as if it''s your choice.

It is your choice. It''s YOUR choice on whether or not you are willing to stay with someone who is wishy washy with your future. If you are willing to stay with him marriage or no marriage because you love him, then that is wonderful (many couples do this). If marriage is something that is important to you and something you can''t imagine living your life without, just know that at the heart of every disappointed feeling you get as a result of his actions is a little bit of blame on your end as well. Ask ANYONE who has devoted years to a relationship that ended after it was clear that marriage wasn''t in the cards....they will tell you that they wished they had left sooner.

Only you know how true you BF is, and only you know how much you''re willing to tolerate. You need to stop with the "What is wrong with me?" and move on to the "What is wrong with HIM that he feels he can take our relationship for granted when he knows how much I want to be engaged...and if he wants to marry me as well then why does he not care that I''ve been humiliated everytime someone asks me why we aren''t engaged?".

I know it''s a breathful, but you''ll get to that point eventually.