Hillary V. The Donald, David Duke, and Chris Christie

[Amber St. Clare]

Hilllary vs. Trump?

Just shoot me now.

He absolutely IS a pig, but she is absolutely not to be trusted.

We.are.screwed.

 

[msop04]

and I found it insulting to women to imply that someone needs to tell us who we shouldn't vote for....

I was actually hoping I didn't need to tell any women they shouldn't vote for Trump. I hoped they would all have known it. But I was afraid that some women might have been busy-multitasking as we all do, you know-and missed some of his most egregiously misogynistic comments. He is a pig, you know. He does denigrate women.

That's the problem... you don't need to tell people how to cast his/her vote. Each person's "important issues" vary for different reasons. Your opinion and the issues you choose to have the most importance in this election may be totally different than others. You are no more right than another is wrong when it comes to politics.

 

[AGBF]

That's the problem... you don't need to tell people how to cast his/her vote.

You are obviously unused to American politics. Everyone here tells everyone else how to vote and why he must vote that way.

Deb

 

[Bonfire]

and I found it insulting to women to imply that someone needs to tell us who we shouldn't vote for....

I was actually hoping I didn't need to tell any women they shouldn't vote for Trump. I hoped they would all have known it. But I was afraid that some women might have been busy-multitasking as we all do, you know-and missed some of his most egregiously misogynistic comments. He is a pig, you know. He does denigrate women.

That's the problem... you don't need to tell people how to cast his/her vote. Each person's "important issues" vary for different reasons. Your opinion and the issues you choose to have the most importance in this election may be totally different than others. You are no more right than another is wrong when it comes to politics.

Ditto, well said

 

[momhappy]

and I found it insulting to women to imply that someone needs to tell us who we shouldn't vote for....

I was actually hoping I didn't need to tell any women they shouldn't vote for Trump. I hoped they would all have known it. But I was afraid that some women might have been busy-multitasking as we all do, you know-and missed some of his most egregiously misogynistic comments. He is a pig, you know. He does denigrate women.

That's the problem... you don't need to tell people how to cast his/her vote. Each person's "important issues" vary for different reasons. Your opinion and the issues you choose to have the most importance in this election may be totally different than others. You are no more right than another is wrong when it comes to politics.

I agree. Each individual has a right to decide. This is the same reason why I would never put a political sign in my yard, slap a political bumper sticker on my car, etc. It's not my job to tell someone how to vote.
I can understand that (it sounds like) you feel passionately about this issue, AGBF - I'm passionate about it too. I actually think of the election quite frequently and I worry about it. I fear that I may not even vote, which is pretty sad because I always vote

 

[msop04]

That's the problem... you don't need to tell people how to cast his/her vote.

You are obviously unused to American politics. Everyone here tells everyone else how to vote and why he must vote that way.

Deb

I am no politico, but I'm not totally ignorant regarding American politics, either.

I am also used to most people thinking that his/her opinions are the only ones that are correct... I disagree with that train of thought.

I don't think women "should" vote any particular way for whatever reasons simply because they are women. Women should vote for the candidate whose ideas with which they can align more closely -- at least on issues that are most important to them. I would venture to say that most people don't always agree with ALL of a candidate's ideas, but they typically know which ones are the most important to them.

 

[ruby59]

After hearing the news tonight and watching how Donald Trump pretended he did not understand the question about David Duke, I apologize, but I am going to be blunt - Donald Trump disgusts me.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

After hearing the news tonight and watching how Donald Trump pretended he did not understand the question about David Duke, I apologize, but I am going to be blunt - Donald Trump disgusts me.

the line forms to the right.................

 

[luv2sparkle]

My fondest wish is that Donald Trump will continue to stick his feet in his mouth so often that no one in their right mind would consider voting for him. I can't imagine how anyone would vote for him even at this point. Not only is he a bully but a laughingstock to the rest of the world.

He is running on a platform that he knows how to run a country like a business but he has filed for bankruptcy numerous times. IMO he has no dignity or respect for anyone other than himself, not to mention a lack of character. I just don't get it.

I am not a fan of Hillary either. She doesn't seem to think laws apply to her and I just don't trust her.

I can't seem to find a candidate on either side I really like.

 

[AGBF]

No one is following you into the voting booth, ladies. I don't have a gun to your heads. I'm just talking here. But I have a right to free speech. And Donald Trump scares me because I am a woman and I was protesting for women's rights before many of you were born so I refuse to give up my right to speak out.

I have heard Mr. Trump speak about women. And it is ugly and disgusting and everything I worked very hard to stop. I am not giving in to this baloney now. Not without a fight.

Anderson Cooper...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXoHl-mjKvs
Megyn Kelly...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyH8P3SZk1I

AGBF

 

[ruby59]

Kenny's post in another thread about why people may be voting for him has really opened my eyes.

But when I heard the endorsement from the Klu Klux Klan, I felt ill.

 

[Jambalaya]

Well, I thought AGBF's opening post was fantastic, and I totally see her point that some multi-tasking women might have missed some of his more misogynistic statements. Personally, it would never have occurred to me that her post is telling women how to vote. It was clearly her opinion that Trump is anti-women based on the things he has said, and she drew the logical conclusion of wondering how any woman can want a man in power who dislikes them for what they are (female).

I loved AGBF's call to action on behalf of the sisterhood, and the way that she called him out for what he is (someone who doesn't like women).

I see Momhappy's point, that this shouldn't be about gender. But the fact that Trump is nastier about one gender than the other makes it about gender, unfortunately.

JMO.

 

[yennyfire]

My fondest wish is that Donald Trump will continue to stick his feet in his mouth so often that no one in their right mind would consider voting for him. I can't imagine how anyone would vote for him even at this point. Not only is he a bully but a laughingstock to the rest of the world.

He is running on a platform that he knows how to run a country like a business but he has filed for bankruptcy numerous times. IMO he has no dignity or respect for anyone other than himself, not to mention a lack of character. I just don't get it.

I am not a fan of Hillary either. She doesn't seem to think laws apply to her and I just don't trust her.

I can't seem to find a candidate on either side I really like.

This. I'm thinking of moving to another country (don't ask me which one, still mulling it over)....this has to be the worst field of candidates in my voting lifetime....

 

[momhappy]

Well, I thought AGBF's opening post was fantastic, and I totally see her point that some multi-tasking women might have missed some of his more misogynistic statements. Personally, it would never have occurred to me that her post is telling women how to vote. It was clearly her opinion that Trump is anti-women based on the things he has said, and she drew the logical conclusion of wondering how any woman can want a man in power who dislikes them for what they are (female).

I loved AGBF's call to action on behalf of the sisterhood, and the way that she called him out for what he is (someone who doesn't like women).

I see Momhappy's point, that this shouldn't be about gender. But the fact that Trump is nastier about one gender than the other makes it about gender, unfortunately.

JMO.

So by saying, "No woman should be voting for Trump. If he is the Republican candidate, no woman should be voting Republican." it would not occur to you that she was telling women how to vote? Maybe I misinterpreted it then?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Meanwhile, I don't care for Hillary Clinton. She has moved more left. For you Deb, the more left the better. Not for me.

Annette

I would vote for Hillary if she offer her own ideas instead of offering 4 more yrs of Obama policies.

 

[Matata]

So by saying, "No woman should be voting for Trump. If he is the Republican candidate, no woman should be voting Republican." it would not occur to you that she was telling women how to vote? Maybe I misinterpreted it then?

Had she stated, "I insist all women should not vote for Trump," or "I order all women not to vote for Trump," there might be cause for indignation from those who fear she has enough influence to make all women do what they would not otherwise do. Would it have been more acceptable for her to say "I think no woman should vote for Trump"? Then would it have been explicit that it was her opinion and perhaps more acceptable to those who disagree with her?

 

[Jambalaya]

Well, I thought AGBF's opening post was fantastic, and I totally see her point that some multi-tasking women might have missed some of his more misogynistic statements. Personally, it would never have occurred to me that her post is telling women how to vote. It was clearly her opinion that Trump is anti-women based on the things he has said, and she drew the logical conclusion of wondering how any woman can want a man in power who dislikes them for what they are (female).

I loved AGBF's call to action on behalf of the sisterhood, and the way that she called him out for what he is (someone who doesn't like women).

I see Momhappy's point, that this shouldn't be about gender. But the fact that Trump is nastier about one gender than the other makes it about gender, unfortunately.

JMO.

So by saying, "No woman should be voting for Trump. If he is the Republican candidate, no woman should be voting Republican." it would not occur to you that she was telling women how to vote? Maybe I misinterpreted it then?

Hi Momhappy, I took the above as Deb's opinion, since obviously she has no actual power over whether women vote for Trump or not. All women reading Deb's statement are free to ignore it. It would only be a problem if Deb somehow had power to make all women do as she said. It's so obvious that she doesn't have that power that I took it as an impassioned plea on her part, since she also knows she has no power over women. If you apply the logic that people making impassioned pleas and statements when they hear something morally wrong - in this case, misogyny - are telling others what to do, then no one would ever make an impassioned plea about anything, or make a stand when they see something wrong. Trump represents a dangerous threat to women's rights, and Deb was calling him out by urging women not to vote for him. Hasn't this been the case throughout history, that when people with power and influence are seen to bully a certain group, people who do not want that group to be bullied call out the bully in the strongest possible terms, and part of that call is urging the targeted group not to give the bully any more power!

I wish more people like Deb had told others not to vote for Hitler. Maybe enough voters would have listened to make a crucial difference. Sometimes, when people tell others what to do, they're right - when morality is on their side. What do I mean by that last bit re. morality? I mean that if Trump's statements about women were examined in a court of law, I don't think there'd be much reasonable doubt that he dislikes one gender more than the other. Perhaps that's why I don't have a problem with the strength of Deb's statement - I think that Trump could potentially be really dangerous and that her statement needed to be said, and not only said but shouted form the rooftops. I'm only sorry that Deb isn't a columnist on a respected newspaper with a huge circulation! I also think that people should have the freedom to call others to action when they see someone doing/saying things that are morally wrong. Sexism and misogyny is morally wrong, as are all forms of prejudice and discrimination. Deb was urging women not to support him in his sexism and misogyny. I'm scratching my head a little as to how anyone can object to someone urging others to boycott an openly sexist future president.

 

[Jambalaya]

To flip it, Person A demonstrates a dislike for Group X based on characteristics such as gender, skin color, sexual orientation, etc. Person B urges the populace not to support Person A in their prejudice.

Momhappy, you surely don't mean to say that Person B should not do that, so that they are not telling others what to do?

 

[Jambalaya]

That terrible word for a person of African heritage is completely unacceptable in our culture, and rightly so. However, equally terrible words for women are tolerated, fully absorbed into our culture, and used often. The ones rhyming with witch, punt, tut, and others.

That's why Trump feels comfortable letting the cat out of the bag about his sexism, but not any other prejudices he might hold. He knows full well that to use the first word I referred to here would kill his presidential chances stone-dead, but not his sexism.

In other words, if you elect a president who is sexist, don't be surprised if he also turns out to be racist and homophobic but smart enough to keep the "unacceptable" prejudices under wraps during the election process.

 

[House Cat]

There is a large group of Trump supporters that don't seem to care whether or not he sticks his foot in his mouth. There seems to be a different value system driving many of them. Maybe racist groups aren't the worst endorsement for Mr Trump after all.


[url=https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=CoAmll3ViQA]https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=CoAmll3ViQA[/url]

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="msop04|
I am also used to most people thinking that his/her opinions are the only ones that are correct... I disagree with that train of thought.

[/quote]


msop
When did you meet my left-wing extremists brother?...

 

[AGBF]

To flip it, Person A demonstrates a dislike for Group X based on characteristics such as gender, skin color, sexual orientation, etc. Person B urges the populace not to support Person A in their prejudice.

Thank you so much for this posting and your others, Jambalaya. I woke up to a barking Newfoundland somewhere at around 1:00 AM (sometimes MayK is on because she is housebreaking her puppy). I was kind of sleepy and not sure what was was up, but your lovely writing brought it all back to me. You hit the nail on the head! I really don't want to sit silently while Mr. Trump savages women! His behavior is beyond contempt and I want to be sure that everyone is aware of it, not leave anything to chance then say-after he is elected President-"Gee...I wonder if I should have said something?"*

Deb

*Can you imagine state dinners at The White House? Every woman will have a place card with her rating beside her name. Maybe Queen Elizabeth with be a 2 because she has shrunk and has wrinkles.

 

[VRBeauty]

I agree. Each individual has a right to decide. This is the same reason why I would never put a political sign in my yard, slap a political bumper sticker on my car, etc. It's not my job to tell someone how to vote.

I don't see lawn signs and bumper stickers as telling someone how to vote. I see them as declarations of the people and causes you support, presumably in the voting booth as well. At most, I'd consider them an entreaty - "I think this candidate is the best, please consider voting for her."

 

[momhappy]

^I wasn't saying that political signs & bumper stickers were telling people how to vote - I just said that I personally don't use them because I don't care to advertise my political views. If others do, that's fine.

 

[momhappy]

To flip it, Person A demonstrates a dislike for Group X based on characteristics such as gender, skin color, sexual orientation, etc. Person B urges the populace not to support Person A in their prejudice.

Momhappy, you surely don't mean to say that Person B should not do that, so that they are not telling others what to do?

I believe that I've made my point pretty clearly this thread, jambalaya. It just didn't sit right with me to say that no woman should vote for Trump. That's all. I may not like Trump, but I'm not comfortable using my status as a women to tell other women who they should or shouldn't vote for. If others are, that's fine. It's not a personal attack on AGBF (I actually enjoy reading her thoughts/opinions) - it's just sharing my opinion as she (and others) have.

 

[missy]

That terrible word for a person of African heritage is completely unacceptable in our culture, and rightly so. However, equally terrible words for women are tolerated, fully absorbed into our culture, and used often. The ones rhyming with witch, punt, tut, and others.

That's why Trump feels comfortable letting the cat out of the bag about his sexism, but not any other prejudices he might hold. He knows full well that to use the first word I referred to here would kill his presidential chances stone-dead, but not his sexism.

In other words, if you elect a president who is sexist, don't be surprised if he also turns out to be racist and homophobic but smart enough to keep the "unacceptable" prejudices under wraps during the election process.

EXACTLY. I cannot help but think of these infamous words...

“Many years later, after Niemöller had been imprisoned for eight years in concentration camps as the personal prisoner of Adolf Hitler, he penned these infamous words:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionist, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Jew.
And then they came for me -
and there was no one left to speak for me.”
― Eric Metaxas, Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy

It is not OK for Donald Trump to malign women the way he does and yet obviously a good majority of people are OK with it. Well just wait and see if you are OK with having a person with this character (or lack of character to be more precise) in the White House.

 

[missy]

My fondest wish is that Donald Trump will continue to stick his feet in his mouth so often that no one in their right mind would consider voting for him. I can't imagine how anyone would vote for him even at this point. Not only is he a bully but a laughingstock to the rest of the world.

He is running on a platform that he knows how to run a country like a business but he has filed for bankruptcy numerous times. IMO he has no dignity or respect for anyone other than himself, not to mention a lack of character. I just don't get it.

I am not a fan of Hillary either. She doesn't seem to think laws apply to her and I just don't trust her.

I can't seem to find a candidate on either side I really like.

This. I'm thinking of moving to another country (don't ask me which one, still mulling it over)....this has to be the worst field of candidates in my voting lifetime....

Yenny, I completely agree. There truly is NO ONE I want to vote for this time around. I almost cannot even see the lesser of the evils as IMO they all have plenty of evil to pass around.

 

[momhappy]

I agree, missy - I could see myself voting for the lesser of evils, but unfortunately, none of the candidates seem to be the lesser of evils (on both sides).

 

[missy]

I agree, missy - I could see myself voting for the lesser of evils, but unfortunately, none of the candidates seem to be the lesser of evils (on both sides).

Yes I am in complete agreement. I don't see my way clear this time and like you I am almost considering not voting at all.

 

[AGBF]

That terrible word for a person of African heritage is completely unacceptable in our culture, and rightly so. However, equally terrible words for women are tolerated, fully absorbed into our culture, and used often. The ones rhyming with witch, punt, tut, and others.

That's why Trump feels comfortable letting the cat out of the bag about his sexism, but not any other prejudices he might hold. He knows full well that to use the first word I referred to here would kill his presidential chances stone-dead, but not his sexism.

In other words, if you elect a president who is sexist, don't be surprised if he also turns out to be racist and homophobic but smart enough to keep the "unacceptable" prejudices under wraps during the election process.

EXACTLY. I cannot help but think of these infamous words...

“Many years later, after Niemöller had been imprisoned for eight years in concentration camps as the personal prisoner of Adolf Hitler, he penned these infamous words:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionist, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Jew.
And then they came for me -
and there was no one left to speak for me.”
― Eric Metaxas, Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy

It is not OK for Donald Trump to malign women the way he does and yet obviously a good majority of people are OK with it. Well just wait and see if you are OK with having a person with this character (or lack of character to be more precise) in the White House.

And it has already started. The on-line version of "The New York Times" has this article today. Apparently white supremacists have organized politically to support Donald Trump.

"Until recently, Jared Taylor, long one of the country’s most prominent white supremacists, had never supported a presidential candidate.

'There’s been no one worth endorsing,' he said in an interview. 'I mean, for heaven’s sake, was John McCain ever going to do anything useful as far as the legitimate interests of whites are concerned?'

But Mr. Taylor believes he has finally found someone who will: Donald J. Trump.

This year, Mr. Taylor’s voice could be heard on robocalls to voters across Iowa and New Hampshire, urging them to support Mr. Trump. 'We don’t need Muslims,' he said on the call. 'We need smart, educated, white people who will assimilate to our culture.'"

Link...http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/01/us/politics/donald-trump-supremacists.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news