how can a young couple afford to buy a home these days....

[websailor]

I saw this article on MSN.com (yes, I know, the evil empire to us UNIX folks). It talks about how nine different people made their million dollars...

Quote -
The Basics
How to make a million dollars

Forget the joke about starting with $2 million. These people had better ideas. Here are nine stories -- and tips -- about making that first million.

By Kiplinger's Personal Finance Magazine

Being a millionaire isn't what it used to be -- but it sure beats not being one. Just ask the 8.2 million U.S. households -- an all-time record -- that had a net worth of more than $1 million in 2004, excluding the value of their primary residence. That was a 33% increase over the previous year, reports a survey by TNS Financial Services.

The surge was driven mostly by consistent investing in the stock market. But there are other ways to make a million -- start a business, invest in real estate, put yourself in the right place at the right time. Kiplinger's sought out people who did all those things and more. We found that although they had taken different routes, they followed a pattern; you might call that pattern the nine habits of highly successful millionaires. And all of them had a 10th trait in common: They never lost sight of their goal.
- End Quote

Here is the link: http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Savinganddebt/Savemoney/P103041.asp?GT1=6113

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/1/2005 10:59

0 AM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 2/1/2005 1:30:23 AM
Author: Kamuelamom

The only exception where we ran up our bills was during the construction when we were charging a good part of the materials (hey, I had a mileage card) ,

I see folks taking out huge loans for construction then taking a luxury vacation or buying a luxury car and cannot finish their house and subs are looking for them.

Sad but I''ve seen this happen.

Simple rule we keep, we live within our means. Sometimes even beneath it. And then when we treat ourselves it feels like we really earned it.

But, taking out construction loans and going on vacation?

Wow, the banks are being irresponsible & not doing their job. Draws should be carefully monitored.

I''m confused as to how anyone can even get away with this. Banks highly regulate construction loans, will grant a specific amount of money to the contractor and then you have to have your work down w/in a specific amount of time. This is probably more along the lines of an owner-building permit/owner doing the building (instead of owner construction loan) and these are more difficult to get but you MAY be able to get away with more.

(the other acception - as in my husband''s case - is where the person taking out the loan is hiring himself out as the contractor. Then you could blow the loan on luxury items

) My husband won''t let me blow the money though. He''s very mean to me.

 

[Kamuelamom]

Date: 2/2/2005 2:14:37 AM
Author: MichelleCarmen
I'm confused as to how anyone can even get away with this. Banks highly regulate construction loans, will grant a specific amount of money to the contractor and then you have to have your work down w/in a specific amount of time. This is probably more along the lines of an owner-building permit/owner doing the building (instead of owner construction loan) and these are more difficult to get but you MAY be able to get away with more.

(the other acception - as in my husband's case - is where the person taking out the loan is hiring himself out as the contractor. Then you could blow the loan on luxury items

) My husband won't let me blow the money though. He's very mean to me.

Both situations you mentioned are what I am talking about. Which is why banks are sooo strict in regulating the draws these days and only allowing "owner/builder" if you have a legit means to complete the project, as in a licensed general contractor to oversee the project. But it's happened in other ways too, as in the trickle down effect. For example, contractor says he needs X amount to pay so and so...owner pays contractor thinking a certain portion will be completed...contractors don't pay sub...Subs don't return to the job since they're not getting paid. Where's the contractor?

We've also seen the latter you've described. In a hot market here, we've seen the best of times and also the worst of times in construction. People get greedy because they can. They bite off more than they can chew. I've heard enough horror stories which have happened to folks we know.

My finish contractor has a cousin who recently hired "someone" who represented Lindal Cedar Homes. I guess they are like a franchise or something? I'm not sure. It wasn't anyone she knew, she just heard of them, called, they said sure and when they requested $37.5k up front for plans, guess what? She paid them, they gave her a bunch of yada yada, gave her an unreal quote (we were like, huh?--no way), then sure enough, they conveniently disappeared leaving not a trace as to how they can be found. Money gone, dream destroyed. Not one rock ever moved or nail ever pounded on her project.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/1/2005 6:59:11 PM
Author: cflutist
F&I, Lop,

PS members should unite ... lets start a tax revolt against AMT

I''ve been revolting. That Bush tax cut is such a JOKE. People are paying MORE in taxes - the very people that support much of the economy. The personal tax deductions were put in place to favor home ownership. When put in place who would have ever guessed that someone would pay in excess of 20k in real estate tax? Who''d a thunk that a starter home would be 500k? 250k was a JUMBO loan.

I was all for this tax because it didn''t affect regular folk who weren''t trying to take advantage of loop holes to bring their AGI to nothing - like a stock broker - because they sell insurance (considered a sole prop.) they can file a schedule C- they can deduct a huge SUV (old farm law done away with this year) But now, this AMT is incrediably antiquated & did not take into account the housing inflation.

We are on the bubble every year. Our two mortgages are less than 250k. Our real estate tax relatively low - AND we can get hit with it. It''s anti home ownership.

........Don''t get me started!

- Write letters!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/1/2005 6:33

9 AM
Author: Momoftwo

It's always been difficult for a young couple to buy, but don't believe it's harder now because houses cost more, because incomes are a lot higher for college graduates than they used to be

.........income levels are proportionately higher than they used to be

Loans are so much easier to get for everything now

When we bought our first home, interest rates were 15 1/2%, and had been 18%.

I think the perception that it's harder to buy now comes from the fact that young couples think they have to have everything at one time

I have to respectfully say I disagree, MomofTwo.....I really feel it is harder to buy a home today.

My parents bought their home - a starter cape - in 1978. When they bought, they did so on only one income.....as did many folks in that time. You'd be hard-pressed to point to many folks today who do that (as a percentage of total sales).

Here are how some the prices have changed since then:

A first class stamp was 13 cents - now 37 cents (tripled)
A gallon of gas was 63 cents - now it's 1.80 (tripled)
A dozen eggs then cost 83 cents - now it's $1.40 (not quite double)
A loaf of bread was 56 cents - now it's $1.70 - (almost 3.5 times)

What about the house? They bought their modest, 25-year old starter house in 1978 for $36,900......and it would sell today for $225-250K! That's more than SIX TIMES the price it was in 1978. That far outpaces the increases in the costs of other things. And they don't live in a huge metropolis, by the way....they live in Maine.

It doesn't make sense for them to leave it, either....because moving up even slightly (adding another 250-300 sf) would run in the early $300K range.....that $75K increase is nearly double the initial price of their house now! (Hence, many folks aren't leaving their starter homes, and builders aren't building "starter" homes, so it's much more difficult to find them for first-time buyers now.)

During that time, my dad's income has likely tripled. Yes, income levels are higher than they used to be, but *not* proportionately so relative to housing. Yes, income levels are higher than they used to be for college graduates, but that barely offsets the loan debt they carry. When I attended college in 1985, my tuition for a private college was $6k. That same school today charges $18K a year. So all the "higher" income graduates are making goes toward paying off much steeper loans.

Yes, loans *are* easier to get now......but they are also defaulted on much more commonly than they were 25 years ago. Before, loans were tough to get, but once obtained, they were almost always paid. Now, loan are easier to get, but they are far less often satisfied. Not much difference.

At the time you bought your home and interest rates were 15+%, I recall that checking accounts paid a much higher level of interest then too. ALL interest rates were higher then.....and the wild swings are part of what impacted the banking industry so heavily. The industry was on the brink of collapse (and DID collapse in states like Rhode Island), and it was regulated then to prevent a similar occurrence.

I typed in a google search for "median household income", and stumbled across articles printed in the last week in four areas about how the rise in housing prices is outpacing income gains. A few samples:

"It hasn't been this difficult to afford a used home in metropolitan Phoenix since 1990. Rising Valley home prices continue to outpace income gains, making it tougher for buyers to find houses that don't stretch their budgets." The articles goes on to note that the affordability index is at its lowest point in the last 15 years.

Another article titled "Housing Costs Outstrip Wages": "A affordable housing for Mount Shasta commissioned by the city council has concluded, among other issues, that with housing prices soaring in recent years and wages lagging behind home price appreciation, many Mount Shastans face major challenges in achieving home ownership and paying rising rents."

Another: "Home Sales Soar as Affordability Plummets": "More people are buying homes in California and the Sacramento area, even though a new report suggests that fewer and fewer people can afford the sky-high prices."

It is so difficult in some areas of the country today that states have actually passed legislation requiring each new development to set aside a percentage of homes that qualify as "affordable" housing. (unfortunately, many of the contractors simply pay an additional fee to get around that.....as is happening about 2 miles away from my new house.)

I can understand your point....and I see it a lot too. There are many younger people today who want everything all at once. However, that doesn't negate the very real difficult conditions that exist today for homebuying. In my set of friends, I don't hear anyone saying "well, we can't afford a house because the furniture would cost X and the new jacuzzi would cost Y......"

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/2/2005 4:11

9 AM
Author: Kamuelamom

Both situations you mentioned are what I am talking about. Which is why banks are sooo strict in regulating the draws these days and only allowing ''owner/builder'' if you have a legit means to complete the project, as in a licensed general contractor to oversee the project. But it''s happened in other ways too, as in the trickle down effect. For example, contractor says he needs X amount to pay so and so...owner pays contractor thinking a certain portion will be completed...contractors don''t pay sub...Subs don''t return to the job since they''re not getting paid. Where''s the contractor?

We''ve also seen the latter you''ve described. In a hot market here, we''ve seen the best of times and also the worst of times in construction. People get greedy because they can. They bite off more than they can chew. I''ve heard enough horror stories which have happened to folks we know.

My finish contractor has a cousin who recently hired ''someone'' who represented Lindal Cedar Homes. I guess they are like a franchise or something? I''m not sure. It wasn''t anyone she knew, she just heard of them, called, they said sure and when they requested $37.5k up front for plans, guess what? She paid them, they gave her a bunch of yada yada, gave her an unreal quote (we were like, huh?--no way), then sure enough, they conveniently disappeared leaving not a trace as to how they can be found. Money gone, dream destroyed. Not one rock ever moved or nail ever pounded on her project.

It saddens me to hear these kinds of stories. But, you can''t be too careful. Don''t write the check to the contractor. Write the check to the sub & get a lien waiver. Another way of doing it is requiring the contractor to get lien waivers from all subs involved thus far *BEFORE* paying him. This is what is the norm in hubby''s biz. No lien waivers no pay out. It''s the only way to protect the owner. Pay the suppliers directly so that *you* own the materials. Also, one should have a contract with "subtaintial completion" outlines upfront. The standard AIA contract is usually sufficient.

People who pay upfront are just inviting trouble. If materials need to be purchased, have them in your name and delivered to *your* site as needed. If you are paying a sub as they go and haven''t been burned you have been lucky. Some professions are on the job longer term & can be paid on substainial completion (like electric rough in).

 

[lmurden]

aljdewey,

I can not agree with you more! You are right on! The average college graduate is carry $25,000 in student loans and lets not forget about credit card debts. Many first time home buyers who are single are having an even harder time who are in their late twenties and early thirties. One of my co-workers from Northern Virginia was told that he should look for a home in West Virginia because he would never be able to get a condo in the state of Virinia because they are going for $250,000 and up! Another single co-worker from Maryland was told to starting looking in Pennsylvania because she was being out bid by two income couples. Things are really tough for the potential home buyer.

 

[fire&ice]

Al, Great well thought out post. Unfortunately, the housing situation is a reality.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/2/2005 11

7

4 AM
Author: lmurden
aljdewey,

The average college graduate is carry $25,000 in student loans.

Well, and that''s another thing that I forgot to mention that differs.

When my folks bought in 1978, a college education was *desired* but not *required* in the workforce. Neither of my parents have a college degree....my dad put in a full 20 years in the military, and my mom stayed home with us until a few months after they bought the house....and then she choose to work because we were finally nearly the end of my dad''s service where she could reasonably commit to a job for more than 2 years.

You could get a job that provided a reasonable living wage without a degree, which meant more of your income could be allocated toward housing. You didn''t have to start out with a boatload of debt prior to entering the workforce. Not so today.

 

[noobie]

I think the hardest time to buy a house is when you are actually trying to buy one

 

[Kamuelamom]

Um, (sheepishly)

I've been wondering something and feeling like I really should know this......what the heck is AMT???

I'm off to finish the updates to this thread now.....

~kmom, confused by this acronym......

 

[cflutist]

Kmom, AMT is Alternative Mininum Tax.

Here is a link that explains all about it:

http://www.smartmoney.com/tax/filing/index.cfm?story=amt

 

[Kamuelamom]

Date: 2/2/2005 2

7

0 PM
Author: cflutist
Kmom, AMT is Alternative Mininum Tax.

Here is a link that explains all about it:

http://www.smartmoney.com/tax/filing/index.cfm?story=amt

Thanks cflutist. i couldn''t have guessed that one even if I tried.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Aljdewey, what field(s) are you educated in and what do you do for a living?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/2/2005 3

0:25 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen
Aljdewey, what field(s) are you educated in and what do you do for a living?

I'm kind of curious what prompts the question.....but I'm game.

I am educated in a few fields.....and have dabbled in several others. Reason for this is that I've been in sales for most of my life, and that involved a few different industries. My exposure to many things has come through sales....in making conversation with clients, my interest has been piqued on many topics to learn more. I'm a voracious reader as well.

Presently, though, I work with corporations on compliance with federal intellectual property laws.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/2/2005 3:52:18 PM
Author: aljdewey

I''m kind of curious what prompts the question.....but I''m game.

I am educated in a few fields.....and have dabbled in several others. Reason for this is that I''ve been in sales for most of my life, and that involved a few different industries. My exposure to many things has come through sales....in making conversation with clients, my interest has been piqued on many topics to learn more. I''m a voracious reader as well.

Presently, though, I work with corporations on compliance with federal intellectual property laws.

Cool! Thanks for a bit of explaination. There was no secret motive beyond curiosity. It''s just that in reading most of your posts you provide such a well-rounded set-of-views and arguements that I recently became curious as to what sort of field you were.

Oh, and unrelated to anything here, my two-year-old adores Velma. lol

He wants a Velma cake for his next birthday!

 

[Mara]

Velma is the BEST...your son has good taste!

Al is a consummate researcher extraordinaire...part of why she is so well-rounded on so many topics. I think it''s called obsessive compulsive. Wait is this the pot calling the kettle black?!

 

[Kamuelamom]

F&I, fortunately none of these things happened to me. Despite my lack of experience in this project, I hired very a couple of very competent folks to help me along the way. I think that makes me smart.

There were one or two issues with subs but none of them related to paying first then not getting service. Our loan was in place as a full construction loan through our General. But because he knew us and trusted that we''d get the job done in the time required (so as not to jeapordize his name with the bank), we had a separate agreement with him just for the work we hired him to do (everything through the dry in), and thus we were very motivated to stay on top of things since he was actually doing us the favor but letting us take back so much of the work and hire all our own subs to do the finish. That is what ultimately saved us money, or IOW, allowed us certain upgrades since we weren''t paying profit to him for subs which we hired ourselves. Since DH is also in the trade, his experience gave us the confidence that we''d get the job done. So in essence we were sort of semi-owner/builders, but not on paper. Trust was a key factor to make this agreement work with my general. He was happy in the end as he came out smelling like a rose.

I think were many owner builders get in trouble is that they have no background going into a project like this. That''s where the frustration comes in. I expected all of that because I had plenty of forewarning from those folks I trusted who took the time to consult with me long before we even broke ground.

The bottom line is that it was waay cheaper to build this house than if I had to take the money I made from the sale of my former home, and apply it towards another home or property of this size. But it also helped that we acquired the property 5 years ago before the prices went into orbit. We could have never bought somthing equivalent to this had we gone looking for something turnkey.

 

[fire&ice]

Kmom - we had a similar relationship with a licensed contractor. He was a friend. Hubby did a book of house plans for his subdivision. He did the required site visits for each draw (three) & we did all the rest. Not only do you save the fee, you also have the ability to control the money & where it''s spent. The bulk of our savings was in buying out the job. The contractor has little incentive to do so. In other words, buying the 2x4''s from one place & the plywood from somewhere else - specing the mansfield toilets instead of the "brand".

Like Michelle & you, we were in the biz too- so to speak. I don''t think I''d recommend to most people to build their own. But, I have to agree with your former realization that women make good "builders". We have that shopping gene

We can multi task & tend to be very organized.

It does get in your blood. I retired for several years until hubby brought me back in about 3 years ago. I still have my hand on some of his projects.

 

[Kamuelamom]

Ah, the shopping gene, true that it did help.

After it was all said and done, folks asked me (with a seeming expectation of me saying hell no) whether or not I''d do it again. Absolutely! But all I wanted was a little break. I''m finally breathing again, gearing up, and even getting excited at the prospect of being able to do this again if the right opportunity comes our way. I truly did enjoy it. And you''re right, it''s not for everybody.

 

[Momoftwo]

The President's tax cuts are on income, not real estate. Yes, real estate taxes go up when home prices go up, but my income tax has dropped as has every tax bracket. There are those that complain when house prices stagnate or grow slowly because they're not making anything and can't move and they complain when prices go up because of taxes and affordability. They cant' have it both ways. Our home has increased in value by over 20% in this last year and I'm not complaining. I saw a story yesterday that mortgage brokers expect rates to be 7% in 2007. Just to put that in perspective, they were 18% in late 1981 to early 1982, so 7% is low, but you will hear all kinds of whining about it.

There's nothing wrong with using some of your equity to make home improvements, pay for college or buy a car. The interest is tax deductible unlike other loans. The ones who get in trouble are those that buy disposables with the money, like groceries, vacations, etc. and use most or all of it. We're using ours to subsidize our kids college education. We can pay for one, but two at a time takes a little more than my whole salary since we have one in private college and one in a state school. The private college costs twice as much, but we promised our boys we'd pay for 4 years for them. Our parents didnt' pay for ours, we lived at home and commuted to the University of MD, and had no loans since we worked full time in the summer and part time during the school year. It's just what we did. It affected our grades and we said we'd never do that to our kids. They are paying for some things, like books and spending money. We didn't want to burden them with loans or bad grades. They do work in the summer to earn what they need. I think I mentioned it before, but my 21 year old already plans to buy a condo rather than renting when he graduates.

I think an issue that some dont' like is that you have to sacrifice to get anywhere. Almost everyone on here has talked about what they had to do/give up to buy a home. That's just part of it unless you have wealthy parents to give you the down payment. We didnt'. We always did it on one income, but we also ate ground beef instead of sirloin, drank generic soda, bought all clothing on sale, drove inexpensive cars (still do) and did what was needed to make it happen. No one ever said life was easy or fair. There are things you can do to make it easier, but fairness is out of our control for the most part.

 

[Nicrez]

I too believe in sacrafice. I am sacraficing more diamonds for a nice house...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/3/2005 7:32

6 PM
Author: Nicrez
I too believe in sacrafice. I am sacraficing more diamonds for a nice house...

oh no don''t do that,diamonds are the #1 priority.even a 10 million dollar home will never sparkle + you can''t wear a house on your finger.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/3/2005 7

8:57 PM
Author: Momoftwo

We''re using ours to subsidize our kids college education. We can pay for one, but two at a time takes a little more than my whole salary since we have one in private college and one in a state school. The private college costs twice as much, but we promised our boys we''d pay for 4 years for them. Our parents didnt'' pay for ours, we lived at home and commuted to the University of MD, and had no loans since we worked full time in the summer and part time during the school year. It''s just what we did. It affected our grades and we said we''d never do that to our kids. They are paying for some things, like books and spending money. We didn''t want to burden them with loans or bad grades. They do work in the summer to earn what they need. I think I mentioned it before, but my 21 year old already plans to buy a condo rather than renting when he graduates.

I think an issue that some dont'' like is that you have to sacrifice to get anywhere. Almost everyone on here has talked about what they had to do/give up to buy a home. That''s just part of it unless you have wealthy parents to give you the down payment. We didnt''. We always did it on one income,

MomofTwo.....it seems as though you are making a lot of rash generalizations about people who may get help on their downpayment. There is an insinuation in your tone that they aren''t willing to sacrifice to get ahead, and I think that''s a dead wrong insinuation. I wonder why you have such a chip about it.

I know a few people who''ve gotten help on their downpayments from parents, and believe me when I tell you, their parents weren''t "wealthy". Rather, their parents were aware of how tough it is today to come up with the down and didn''t want their kids to struggle as they did. With all due respect, this doesn''t sound much different than your reason for footing the bill for your kids'' college, does it?

It''s great that your son plans to buy his condo at 21 years old, but perhaps he wouldn''t be able to do that if you weren''t footing his education. How wonderful for him that he has the luxury of leaving college loan- and debt-free and can immediately afford to put his *own* downpayment on a condo! I didn''t have that. I worked year-round while going to college, and it *still* wasn''t enough to cover my tuition, so I had to take out loans for the rest and pay them back when I was done. Nor did my parents (or anyone else for that matter) pay toward my downpayment.

I''m sure you''d take offense if someone else who didn''t get help with their tuition made a snide remark to your son saying "how LUCKY for you that you have ''wealthy parents'' to pay your way through college." Would you like it if someone implied that your kids were unwilling to make sacrifices and wanted everything now just because you paid their tuition? Somehow, I think you''d take that unkindly.

Your sons are getting help from you on tuition; other people get help on their downpayment. It doesn''t really matter which expense the money goes to; it''s still help no matter how you slice it, isn''t it?

This is beginning to sound like a "johnson contest" of "who has it the worst", and that''s silly. Getting help--whether it''s on tuition or housing or ANYTHING--shouldn''t be looked at as an indicator of someone''s willingness (or lack thereof) to sacrifice or their level of responsibility.

 

[Momoftwo]

Did you see where I said SOME. Nowhere did I say everyone! I made the point a lot of people sacrifice. There are plenty who dont' also. We got NO help at all. We did it all on our own. We aren't going to give our boys a down payment either. And we're not wealty, just comfortable after more years than not watching every penny. If we did it anyone can.

I'm not quite sure why you're so inflamed by my comments about my family. I said we paid for our own school, our boys arent. They do earn their own book and spending money as well as gas money. Choices we made long ago and we're still sacrificing today to do it. My point about my son was that he plans to buy a condo when he graduates which we are extremely proud of him for. Among many other things. I will not apoligize for paying for my kids school. My parents didnt' apologize for not paying for mine. I got over it. You can too.

BTW, it was tough to come up with a down payment 20+ years ago. What I resent is the intimation by some that I couldnt' possibly have had it as hard 20+ years ago trying to buy a house. It was just as difficult then to save, but we did it and didn't complain about it. Either then or now, it's difficult, but not impossible.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/4/2005 2:20:56 PM
Author: Momoftwo
Did you see where I said SOME. Nowhere did I say everyone! I made the point a lot of people sacrifice. There are plenty who dont' also. We got NO help at all. We did it all on our own. We aren't going to give our boys a down payment either. And we're not wealty, just comfortable after more years than not watching every penny. If we did it anyone can.

I'm not quite sure why you're so inflamed by my comments about my family. I said we paid for our own school, our boys arent. They do earn their own book and spending money as well as gas money. Choices we made long ago and we're still sacrificing today to do it. My point about my son was that he plans to buy a condo when he graduates which we are extremely proud of him for. Among many other things. I will not apoligize for paying for my kids school. My parents didnt' apologize for not paying for mine. I got over it. You can too.

BTW, it was tough to come up with a down payment 20+ years ago. What I resent is the intimation by some that I couldnt' possibly have had it as hard 20+ years ago trying to buy a house. It was just as difficult then to save, but we did it and didn't complain about it. Either then or now, it's difficult, but not impossible.

In my comments above, where do you see me quoting you as saying "everyone"? EXACTLY.....I DIDN'T. I read "some" the first time, and I never said your intent was broader than that.

Yes, you made the point that a lot of people sacrifice, and that a lot of people don't. The way you frame your comments implies that those who "sacrifice" are defined as those who don't get any help, and by default, those who do get some form of help don't sacrifice. That's what I find offensive in your comments. Has it occurred to you that there are some people who struggle and pinch every penny and STILL don't make enough to buy a house without help? How does that entitle you to sit here and knock them because they got help?

You got no help and did it all by yourself.....HOORAY FOR YOU! It's not an exclusive club......I got no help and did it all by myself, too. So do a TON of other people......big deal. Yes, it's an accomplishment to be proud of, but it's unflattering to repeatedly say it in such a way that infers other who get help are unwilling to pinch pennies and make sacrifices....and that's precisely how you're coming off.

You're not giving your kids their down payment? Again, HOORAY for you. (You say it like there would be some *shame* involved if you were providing help, and that's just crazy.) One observation though......seeing that they won't have to pay a penny toward their tuition or student loans, they should have no problem saving for a downpayment and therefore won't have to ask for your help. Others don't have that luxury.

I don't need to "get over" the fact that my parents didn't pay for my school....I paid for school myself and proud of it, but I'm equally happy for those who don't have to. It's not a damn contest. It's an accomplishment, but it's not a standard by which to measure everyone else and look down on those who had help paying, or to suggest that their accomplishment isn't as meaningful because they did get help.

FYI....there was no implication by ANYONE on this board that YOU PERSONALLY didn't have it as hard 20 years ago as they did today. Nor did folks say that EVYERONE had it easier 20 years ago than it is today. The general discussion was that some believe it's harder AS A WHOLE to buy a house today....largely because there is a wider gulf between annual income and housing costs. It wasn't a discussion meant to minimize *your* struggles or accomplishment. You can get over it, too.

We did it and didn't complain about it. SO WHAT? Are you wanting praise for it? Accolades? A medal? No one here is "complaining"....they were having a general discussion. For the record, tooting your own horn on it and putting down those who you feel don't struggle as hard as you think you did isn't any more flattering than those who complain.

Heck, maybe I should grab my grandfather and bring him in here. Then he can tell us all about how we didn't have it as hard as he did because HE had to walk up hill to school....BOTH WAYS.....and had no indoor plumbing, no TV....etc. He'll fit right in.

 

[Momoftwo]

Do you always flame up so easily?

 

[Mara]

"I think an issue that some dont'' like is that you have to sacrifice to get anywhere. Almost everyone on here has talked about what they had to do/give up to buy a home. That''s just part of it unless you have wealthy parents to give you the down payment. We didnt''. We always did it on one income, but we also ate ground beef instead of sirloin, drank generic soda, bought all clothing on sale, drove inexpensive cars (still do) and did what was needed to make it happen. No one ever said life was easy or fair. There are things you can do to make it easier, but fairness is out of our control for the most part. "

______________________________

I think the reason people are talking about what they had to do or give up to buy a home is because the whole thread is kind of a ''let''s discuss cost of living and housing in your area''....so YES people may say that they have had to give up something somewhere, or make different decisions. That''s just LIFE. I don''t see anyone raging and upset that this has had to happen, but people are certainly talking about it. There is not an ''issue'' here from my perspective.

I also think your generalization that only ''wealthy parents'' give down payments is incorrect. I have friends who paid for their own college, wedding, and everything on their own, and their parents opted to give them some money towards a down instead of for a wedding or something along those lines, somewhat like a ''i want to help''...and these parents are not wealthy. It does not make the purchase of a house any less the children''s if a parent helps, just as if a parent helps with an education does not make the degree any less the child''s.

So again, I don''t think that anyone is saying ''it''s so unfair i actually had to scrimp to save to buy my place!''...or at least that is not remotely how I took this discussion. I also tend to disagree on the generalizations that younger people expect things to be handed to them, I don''t know one person in my life who feels that way...even if they do have wealthy parents or a well-off family.

 

[Momoftwo]

What I said was, "Unless you have wealthy parents to give you the down payment", not that only wealthy parents give their children their down payments. Reread the post please. Those are two totally different statements. I aslo never said I had a problem with sacrifice, but I did say earlier that a lot of people do sacrifice, but some dont know how. I also never said I didnt'' think parents should help, my point was not everyone has that, but it''s still possible to buy a home, and there is nothing wrong with buying something small and that you can afford, not just qualify for to start with. I had a family member buy something he really couldnt'' afford during his divorce because he was "entitled" to it. Luckily for him,his support payments are lower than he thought or he wouldn''t have that house now.

My points were not about anyone in particular, but those I have seen in my life that have done and said what I posted. I never said anything about anyone on this thread. I was talking in generalities about those I''ve seen in this area I live in and their actions. And, I referred to myself. There are a couple of posters here, by no means, all, that do not read my posts thoroughly. Don''t interpret what I post. Just read it for what it is. I don''t do double meanings and anyone who knows me would tell you that.

 

[Mara]

Date: 2/4/2005 7:11:57 PM
Author: Momoftwo
What I said was, ''Unless you have wealthy parents to give you the down payment'', not that only wealthy parents give their children their down payments. Reread the post please. Those are two totally different statements.

There are a couple of posters here, by no means, all, that do not read my posts thoroughly.

How are those two statements different at all???? You imply that ONLY wealthy parents could give a child a down payment...it seems cut and dry to me? What exactly were you trying to say...it must need additional explanations for the ''couple of posters'' who ''misunderstand'' what is written. Please enlighten me as I don''t have the time nor patience to read over and over to see the hidden meaning that supposedly isn''t there.

Thanks!