how can a young couple afford to buy a home these days....

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/5/2005 5:48:40 PM
Author: Momoftwo
The defensiveness and anger I see directed towards opinions is almost scary. Like why am I getting grief from only a couple of posters unless something I said hits close to home? Don''t make me or anyone else responsible for your reactions.

Let''s see. I had an abortion because I was selfish. My parents paid for my College/grad & for my downpayment - they should because they are wealthy. I never struggled a day in my life. I am entitled to have the house, the car, the ring & right now. The younger generation I know are indeed not used to sacrifice and delayed gratification. I''m paying off my mortgage now. Homes in lower priced areas are "never" a good idea because there exists no place that has good growth & lower housing prices. I am under the misconception that BUSH''S joke of a tax cut was for real estate.

I could go on and on with your oversimplifications & generalizations. I find them to be dangerous. You don''t state your opinion. You state it as a fact of life. Something you seem to glean as truth. Life isn''t black & white. And, for the record, NONE of the above hits home. So, don''t go pointing that finger at me. Oh brother, yes I am defensive because of ALL the TRUTH you speak about hitting me close to home. I''m not defenisve. I am offensive at all your blanket "opinions".

 

[Mara]

Date: 2/5/2005 5:48:40 PM
Author: Momoftwo

This happens to be somewhat entertaining, and especially the fact that anyone would take advice from strangers on a bulletin board. You have to do what's right for you and you don't need anyone's (who you dont know especially) approval. Dont' take it too seriously. The defensiveness and anger I see directed towards opinions is almost scary. Like why am I getting grief from only a couple of posters unless something I said hits close to home? Don't make me or anyone else responsible for your reactions.

I wanted to chime in again and note that I was not defensive, angry, or offended when I responded to your post. I responded solely because I agreed that your posts were seeming to generalize, myself being someone who could be construed the younger generation (at 30), when in reality my life has been full of independence and sacrifices that were necessary, none of which I regret.

You may not try to come across as inflammatory, but your delivery really leaves alot to be desired. From someone who speaks quite bluntly to another...at least admit that your delivery could use some finesse rather than implying that those that disagree are being defensive and/or resembling that remark. To me that's a copout.

You note that you feel as though only a few posters are 'giving you grief'...maybe this is because they disagree with what you wrote? Opinions on PS are heartily welcomed, but there are those that can sometimes debate opinions, so it should not be construed as trying to stamp down an opinion, but rather do not be surprised to find those that challenge opinions that are noted as fact.

Now since I've said my peace, I'm pretty much done with that portion of the discussion.....but 70's music? ADORE IT...my mom used to play it all the time in the car when I was a kid and I am a huge disco fan! Earth Wind and Fire is my favorite and have seen them in concert twice, but I also love others like Stevie Wonder ('As' is one of my all time favorites), The O'Jays, Blondie, Ambrosia, The Eagles, etc. In fact I've got Blondie playing on my computer right now while I clean up the guest bedroom.

 

[Diamonds4Me]

Date: 2/5/2005 1:36:59 PM
Author: pqcollectibles

Date: 2/5/2005 12:55:36 PM
Author: Diamonds4Me
Wow...my favorite 70''s bands...is there enough room to list them all?????

KISS - saw them in concert twice

Jethro Tull - I can''t help but love it...I play the flute too..
Heart (I''d kill to have a voice like that!)
Gordon Lightfoot
The Doobie Brothers
Eagles
Eric Clapton
Fleetwood Mac
VAN HALEN!!! I''ve seen David Lee Roth and Sammy in concert. Darn it! I missed the Van Halen reunion in Chapel Hill

Ted Nugent

Gosh..there are sooooooo many!

Some of the Classics there, D4M!!

I remember seeing Jethro Tull in concert. When the members of the band were introduced I vividly recall the joke about the lead guitarist''s name. ''John Glasscock, also known to the Ladies as Brittle D**k!!'' the voice said in a sultry, sexy English accent. I remember being glad the lights were down as my face immediately got hot because I was blushing so.

My Mom was a total embarrassment to my sister and I over David Lee Roth. HBO had a special running where DLR wore a pair of jeans that had no ''cheek parts'' in the back. Our Mom was very enamoured with the young gent that had no seat in his pants. She loved watching him dance!!

Ahhhhh!! Fond Memories!!

LOL! I probably would have turned beet red myself...I blush a little too easily

hehe. I don''t know what it is about an English accent but I could listen to someone that has one talk all day. It''s so neat. And Diamond Dave...I knew there was a reason I liked him so much

Anyone that can use the word diamond in their name is a "+" in my book. My h2b is a HUGE Van Halen fan. He has several videos from their very early days. It was so awesome to watch Edward Van Halen play the guitar. Amazing! I especially liked the fact that I could pick out Mozart and other composers in his solos. Well..I''m beat so I''m going to go veg out in front of the tv for the rest of the evening. I can''t wait until my h2b comes home to me. I get so lonely when he''s away

 

[Diamonds4Me]

Blondie!!!!! I love her! I have a bazillion songs of hers....ahhh, the days of Napster...no longer I''m afraid.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/5/2005 6:59:18 PM
Author: Diamonds4Me
Blondie!!!!! I love her! I have a bazillion songs of hers....ahhh, the days of Napster...no longer I''m afraid.

Yes, Blondie RULES!!!

 

[Mara]

There are a few sites out there that let you upload funds (aka through PayPal) into an account and then buy songs and/or albums. The best one so far in terms of common (not obscure) stuff is www.mp3search.ru. You can upload $20 and then buy songs. I got the entire Eagles best of album for $2.00....each song is only about $0.10.

Whereas I think I used Napster in it''s new format aka similar upload $$ then download songs for a month as well, and each album was $10. I prefer the $2.00.

 

[Libster]

I love EARTH, WIND & FIRE!!! I was thrilled to get to see them in concert with Chicago last summer in Atlanta''s outdoor amphitheatre, Chastain Park. I also must admit that my Mom was a huge David Bowie fan so I grew up listening to "Ziggy Stardust" as we drove down the road

 

[Dancing Fire]

Earth wind & Fire......who can forget "Gratitude album" the song "Reasons" saw 2 of their concerts in the late 70''s

Bee Gee''s..... went to see their concert in Oakland,Ca i think 1980

don''t forget there were a lot of 1 hit wonder''s in the 70''s, who''s song went to #1
to name a few....

season in the sun....... Terry Jacks
rock the boat............. hughs corp.
rock me gently............ Andy Kim
the night chicago die.....Paper Lace
side show....................Blue Magic
billy don''t be a hero.....Bo donaldson & the Haywards

 

[Diamonds4Me]

I must admit that I like David Bowie.

 

[Kamuelamom]

Date: 2/5/2005 12:43:13 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
there''s some oldies but goodies here and i don''t mean songs.

70''s song are the best.

DF, your list just reminded me of another one similar to those.....as I am now watching the Entertainer (Wayne Newton''s reality program) and I sooooo loved "Daddy Don''t You Walk So Fast....."

Reasons was one of my all time favorite songs while in Intermediate and High School.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/6/2005 2:20:36 AM
Author: Kamuelamom

Date: 2/5/2005 12:43:13 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
there's some oldies but goodies here and i don't mean songs.

70's song are the best.

DF, your list just reminded me of another one similar to those.....as I am now watching the Entertainer (Wayne Newton's reality program) and I sooooo loved 'Daddy Don't You Walk So Fast.....'

Reasons was one of my all time favorite songs while in Intermediate and High School.

K-MOM
you're not that old

yes, i remember daddy don't you walk so fast,1971 or 72 when i was in jr high school. i can back to some 60's even late 50's

how about "american pie" big hit in 72

 

[goldengirl]

FH and I want very badly to buy a house. We are moving, in part, so that we may actually DO so in the next five years... to Lousiville, KY, where homes are still reasonably affordable (as opposed to here in PHX, where our market is being inflated by all you CA investors!

).

We''re hoping to buy in the next two years... it will just come down to us being able to scrape together a down payment.

It kills me to throw away rent every month. And I want to own my property so I actually get some satisfaction out of improving it... instead of thinking "Great, now I''ll have to repaint when I move out" if I want to paint the kitchen.

 

[fire&ice]

Yes, Mara - we have had the love fest before regarding the Elements of the Universe! I''ve seen them at least twice in concert in their hey day. The show they put on was SPECTACULAR! I have replaced many of their albums with CD''s.

The Eagles are still writing and performing. Saw them in concert last year w/ Joe Walsh. As individuals, they are their own artists.

 

[goldengirl]

To bring this thread back to its topic for just a second... Al & F&I, I want to step in and say thanks on behalf of the twentysomething generation... we're not all lazy spendthrifts, and we don't all get everything handed to us on a silver platter. It's not any easier for those of us who DO try to take care with our money to buy a house than the spoiled brats of my generation. In fact, the spoiled brats have it much easier, because mom & dad front the downpayment and step in when the kid can't control his own bank account. The twentysomethings you hear complaining how hard it is to buy a starter home nowadays are the ones like me: strugging to even FIND a job in this market that demands a frickin' PhD to flip burgers.

Momoftwo, nobody is saying that what you did wasn't amazing. All we're saying now is we have challenges, too. They're different challenges than what you faced, but that doesn't make them any LESS challenging. So you pinched pennies and came up with a 20% down payment on, what, a $50K house? Now *I* have to pinch pennies and come up with 10% on a $120K house. Same problem, just different numbers. Only I'm willing to bet that I'm putting more of my monthly income towards rent, utils, food, etc, because as others have said, incomes just aren't keeping up with the cost of living... ESPECIALLY for twentysomethings like myself without a degree. I for one DO take offense at your insinuation that I don't own a house because I'm lazy and unwilling to sacrifice. Or, if my parents graciously offer to loan or gift me with money towards a down so I can better my life, that I am less worthy of homeownership because I didn't earn it all myself. Boy I sure wish MY parents were paying for college. Then maybe I could get a job that paid me more than I have to spend each month to live, and could save for my own frickin' downpayment.

You may not mean to offend (although the jury's still out on that one) but your delivery definitely leaves something to be desired. Just because you know a couple kids who are greedy, selfish, materialistic and demanding doesn't mean we, as a generation, exhibit those traits. My roomie is exactly one of those kids you described. She is the most materialistic golddigger I know. She's also from Vermont. Shall I now assume all VT'ers are like her? God I hope not!!!!

"Some" folks in my generation will be as described, just as "some" folks in your generation were and "some" in my children's will be. But you speak as though that is the overriding majority and people like me are the exception. I would hate to believe you think so poorly of your kids' age group as a whole.

Kmom, I too am a big believer in living within your means...now if I could just find a job so I *have* some means!!

PS everybody, I'm really loving this thread... it's been very informative!!

 

[Kamuelamom]

Date: 2/6/2005 5:54:51 PM
Author: goldengirl
Kmom, I too am a big believer in living within your means...now if I could just find a job so I *have* some means!!

Yes, GG, I hear you. But the fact that you are willing to get out there and work hard is a great start. Stay encouraged. Hard work and an honest living is something that you can never lose from.

~kmom

 

[njc]

I have been casually following this thread and have to throw in that me and the FI (both 25) are going to put in an offer for a townhouse we found this weekend in about 2 hours. The ~1200 sqft TH is listed at $334,000 but im not sure what our offer will be yet... the agent said yesterday he only had one contract so far. They'll be reviewing them tonight!

I too know those that dont know how good they have it and have everything handed to them. I cant say i have worked hard and saved for EVERYTHING i have, but feel that i appreciate that which has been given to me (my college tuition and a 4 yr old used honda, thats now 6yo) and live *well* within my means, saving every bit i can.

But even with those generous gifts and living at home for 2 years and saving money (at a very poor paying 1st job after spending 8 months unemployeed in a horrible job market), it will be difficult to make even a 5% down payment and pay closing cost, etc. without using every last dime in our savings accounts, the market around here (DC/Northern VA) is so crazy (we are leaving our 1 BR, 800sqft apartment they are turning condo with a $250,000 price tag). FI has some hefty college loans, but luckily we've both paid off our CC debt from college. And we arent going out and buying the biggest and best that we qualify for either... we were approved for $500,000. We could keep looking further south, but we feel a small commute (30-45 min) and our personal time are worth more than the $50,000+ we would save on something comparable.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I have been casually following this thread and have to throw in that me and the FI (both 25) are going to put in an offer for a townhouse we found this weekend in about 2 hours.

Good luck!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Personally, I don''t see anything wrong with a parent helping their children out with a down payment on a house. If my kids are lazy, then NO, I won''t help them. But if they work hard and make it through college and then want to purchase a home and don''t happen to have an extra 40k laying around for a decent home in the area and my husband and I DO have the money, then we''ll assist them. I wouldn''t GIVE them the money, but would let them borrow it and work out a deal with them repaying after they sell the house and move up or whatever.

Life has obstacles whether or not you have money. We ALL sacrifice on one level or another and I''d like money to be the least of my childrens'' worries. And even if they don''t worry about money, they''ll surely struggle in other facets of life or another.

 

[cute330xigrl]

NJC, it looks wonderful!! We chased our place for an entire year. We thought for sure we had lost it. Then one day, after taking a 6month break from looking, my jaws dropped. Was this the house the realtor "claimed" we would lose in 24hrs if we don''t give them asking?? Ahhh, the mind games. Lucky for us (well, thanks to me really), we held out... contracts fell thru... price dropped $45k. If I had left it to Eager Beaver (my honey), we would have payed above asking. lol!

Best of luck w/ it. It really looks charming.

 

[lostdog]

And this is three years old now.

 

[lostdog]

Low interest rates are keeping it possible to afford a house of some sort, but home ownership for anyone under the median income level has become much harder, not much easier in the last decade. And to get the higher incomes, statistically you also have to get the college education. Meantime, the inflation adjusted cost of higher education has doubled in the last 20 years.

1982 is a very special case regarding interest rates, but the trend is not favorable overall for affordability going forward.

One thing buried in the household income stats is that household income is much more likely to reflect dual wage earners, where that arrangement used to be the exception. So housing prices have tremendously outpaced incomes.

This is frankly a very hard subject to discuss. Even analysis that isn't trying to bias a certin opinion usually has some big holes in the basic assumptions of what's being measured.

Regardless, it's a bad idea to get on the web and start telling everybody how much tougher you had it.

But on the whole it's much better then people had pre-WWII. Mortgages used to be 50% loan to value limit (hence 50% downpayment), interest only, and 5 year terms. Home ownership was a lot lower back then......

 

[Sunni79]

Hi, My husband and I are also 25. We bought our first home 2 1/2 yrs. If we had waited any longer, we wouldn''t have been able to afford it. We live in PA and the prices of homes have skyrocketed! Our home is now worth twice what we paid for it! It''s crazy!

 

[Momoftwo]

The interesting thing about that affordabiity chart is what I heard the other day on the radio from a locally well known Financial Planner. He was saying income taxes in 1975 were a lot higher than what they are today, so people had less disposable income than they do now. Yet,the chart shows a smaller affordability gap then today. We, as a nation, now buy more expensive cars and drive them for shorter amounts of time, have cable and satellite tv vice free tv back then, have a ton more clothes in our closets, drive farther to work, etc. All which add up to less available cash.

And I did nothing "unique". I know quite a few people who bought homes in their early 20''s in the 80''s without any help. We just chose to drive our cars longer, take fewer vacations, and not eat out as much and banked as much as we could. Houses are going up in value very fast at this point and it will level off, it always does. Think 1988-89. We watched our townhome increase in value and then flatten out. Ended up losing $6,000 at the table when we closed the sale. The home I sold previous to moving into this one (fourth one we''ve owned) was the first home we''ve actually cleared more than $500 on. Owning a home was a tax advantage to us and still is for the most part. Once your income gets high enough it actually hurts you to rent unless you give a huge amount every year to charity so you can itemize. That''s why if you can afford it, even if it''s a condo, you should buy as soon as you can. Accountants, tax attorneys and financial planners will tell you this. Our home now after 23 years of owning is our dream home.

 

[ForteKitty]

My grandparents immigrated here with nothing but the clothes on their backs in the late 60s. (Legally, of course) They worked day and night while raising 4 kids. Now they own 4 properties, all paid off. How they managed that, i''ll never know.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/27/2005 6:36:32 AM
Author: Momoftwo
All the interest only loans I''ve seen are for just the first few years (usually around 5 yrs), then you revert to the current interest rate of the day plus principal for the rest of the 30 yrs or you have to refinance a new loan. So you do not have 30 years of interest only. I think they''re a terrible idea as you are really getting nothing except a house you really can''t afford when the payments do go up. Our financial planner says they are not a good idea. They''re not an investment at all and people who tend to get them do not put away any more money than anyone else (mainly because they dont'' have any extra) so there will be nothing to pay off the loan with. So, buying real estate this way really is not an investment of any kind. You''re betting on the fact that the house will increase in value during that time. The problem comes in if you buy a lot more house than you could otherwise afford, then after 5 years you start paying principal as well as interest (at the current rate on the date your interest only time frame is up) you won''t know if you can afford the home then. Rates in 5 years at the time you''re required to start paying P%I could be 5% more than today ( not really all that likely, but 2-3% is). At least with a standard fixed rate mortgage you know what your payments will be with a little adjustment due to taxes and HO fees.

Momoftwo
have you change your mind.?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 6/10/2005 2:12:10 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/27/2005 6:36:32 AM
Author: Momoftwo
All the interest only loans I''ve seen are for just the first few years (usually around 5 yrs), then you revert to the current interest rate of the day plus principal for the rest of the 30 yrs or you have to refinance a new loan. So you do not have 30 years of interest only. I think they''re a terrible idea as you are really getting nothing except a house you really can''t afford when the payments do go up. Our financial planner says they are not a good idea. They''re not an investment at all and people who tend to get them do not put away any more money than anyone else (mainly because they dont'' have any extra) so there will be nothing to pay off the loan with. So, buying real estate this way really is not an investment of any kind. You''re betting on the fact that the house will increase in value during that time. The problem comes in if you buy a lot more house than you could otherwise afford, then after 5 years you start paying principal as well as interest (at the current rate on the date your interest only time frame is up) you won''t know if you can afford the home then. Rates in 5 years at the time you''re required to start paying P%I could be 5% more than today ( not really all that likely, but 2-3% is). At least with a standard fixed rate mortgage you know what your payments will be with a little adjustment due to taxes and HO fees.

Momoftwo
have you change your mind.?

Wow, this thread is how many months old???? Too much time on ones hands

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 6/10/2005 2:12:10 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/27/2005 6:36:32 AM
Author: Momoftwo
All the interest only loans I''ve seen are for just the first few years (usually around 5 yrs), then you revert to the current interest rate of the day plus principal for the rest of the 30 yrs or you have to refinance a new loan. So you do not have 30 years of interest only. I think they''re a terrible idea as you are really getting nothing except a house you really can''t afford when the payments do go up. Our financial planner says they are not a good idea. They''re not an investment at all and people who tend to get them do not put away any more money than anyone else (mainly because they dont'' have any extra) so there will be nothing to pay off the loan with. So, buying real estate this way really is not an investment of any kind. You''re betting on the fact that the house will increase in value during that time. The problem comes in if you buy a lot more house than you could otherwise afford, then after 5 years you start paying principal as well as interest (at the current rate on the date your interest only time frame is up) you won''t know if you can afford the home then. Rates in 5 years at the time you''re required to start paying P%I could be 5% more than today ( not really all that likely, but 2-3% is). At least with a standard fixed rate mortgage you know what your payments will be with a little adjustment due to taxes and HO fees.

Momoftwo
have you change your mind.?

DF......seriously......are you illiterate, or do you simply CHOOSE to willfully ignore all the information?

THE ABOVE POST TALKS ABOUT A SPECIFIC SITUATION THAT ONLY APPLIES IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO KEEP THE DAMN HOUSE AFTER THE INTEREST-FREE PERIOD EXPIRES.

Sorry for the caps, but you just don''t seem to get it if someone isn''t shouting.

 

[Kaleigh]

 

[Momoftwo]

I''d say he''s just a little obsessed. Shall we go back and look at everything he''s ever posted and pick and choose what we decide is relevant to what we''re saying? I dont'' remember defending IO''s all that much in the newer thread, just mentioned all the loan programs out there and how they could help. And mentioned a well known financial planner and what HE said. Geez, they''re not something I would necessarily do, but I''m also not saying my way is the only way to do something.