I don''t want to change my last name, but he wants me too.

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 1/30/2009 9:22:54 PM
Author: jstarfireb
Wishful, I agree with a lot of your points as well as Jessica's. I would also like to see how she talks about her engagement and marriage. In her book, she doesn't necessarily argue against marriage as an institution, but she does speak out against the wedding industry, 'bridezillas,' etc.


You mention that feminists consider the social/cultural implications of their choices, and what I'm saying is that more people should do that! For the big, major life choices, I think it's the responsible thing to do. And changing your name is a big choice that (like it or not) reflects one's ideology. I totally support women's right to choose whatever they want to do, even if one of the options is more 'feminist' than the other, as long as they think it through. Heck, I chose the 'anti-feminist' act of accepting and wearing an engagement ring. But I thought it through and decided it was what I really wanted. What I don't like is the complacency of women who say 'I'm getting married now...guess it's time to change my name.' Give all the options some real consideration and make an active choice...exercise the right to choose that our feminist sisters fought and are still fighting for!

I suppose I might be more intent on critiquing the institution of marriage in general than many people because I am blatantly excluded from it. I think marriage as an institution can be easily argued against.... just as we can make a feminist argument against many things. But I've chosen to be married [as complicated as it's been!]. I don't see it as a feminist choice, but as a CHOICE. My point is that choices are choices, and while they might not be feminist choices, they're our choices to make, and really in the end the traditions are what we make of them. We definitely agree on that!

I think in general the complacency thing is maddening and very true, but perhaps PS is a bit different of a sample than wider society, in general? This site is full of strong, independent women who are capable of making their own choices. Some make the not-necessarily-feminist choice of changing their last name at marriage, and others do not, but for every "feminist" choice we make we'll make at least another that is not. Most people here actually DID give the subject thought before deciding, which is why I perhaps react less vehemently to their thought-out choices than I would to my former high school classmates who allow their male partners to walk all over them. Choices are only choices if we are allowed to make them, and although we can never make them completely freely, living in the society that we currently do, we can do our best to think for ourselves and do a damn good job of it, too!

Heck, as princess alluded to, isn't there some sort of subversive feminist message in making traditional choices of our own will, consciously? In wearing an engagement ring and entering into a heterosexual marriage and choosing gender roles and a division of labor that work for YOU rather than what is necessarily expected-- or choosing the ones that are traditional because you can and you LIKE them? In taking a different name and very much NOT being someone else's property, but a strong independent person nonetheless? In gender studies we call this "queering hegemony" [the queering part is like turning it around, messing with the concept, challenging it in subversive ways]. Let's do it. Heck, my marriage is a big old queering of quite a lot of things, so I'm becoming an expert on it.

Personally I think it's fun to make traditional choices in ways where we can model that it doesn't have to DEFINE us.

TwinniePrincess, your presentation was all about the performativity. Consciously performed gender is one of my favourite things in the entire world.

 

[palomablancabride]

This whole, "I don''t want my husband''s ethnic last name!" is interesting to me. I''m mostly filipino with a very unique very English last name and I don''t ever get asked where my last name came from. I''ve also taken my husband''s generic anglo sounding name and I don''t anticipate anyone wondering why I have the last name that I do. Obviously if I met a white woman with a Chinese last name I would just assume that her husband was Chinese.

 

[musey]

Date: 1/30/2009 10:22:26 PM
Author: trillionaire
I also don't care how excited people are about being married, lol, if I am being honest.

Really? Isn't it nice to know that your friends are happy, at least? I dunno, given the whole DB situation I do wonder/worry about my friends who are getting married, and whether they are truly thrilled about it all or just going through the motions. It's really nice to see an outward expression of their happiness in a somewhat subtle (in my opinion) way.

I went to an all girls high school, and I know people by the names that I met them with. I will probably never met your new husband, I will probably never know your new name.

I'd personally like to hope that the people I am friends with would take a moment or two to either (A) acquaint themselves with my new name, or (B) use the NUMEROUS photos of me to jog their memory as to who I am

I would like people to acknowledge that FB is a networking site, and I can't FIND YOU if you change your NAME! So leave a trace of your former identity, or you will be lost to me forever and ever!!!

That is my selfish request. I like to reconnect with friends, and all this name changin' is gettin' in the way. It's almost enough to turn me back into a feminazi, because I don't have to DEAL with these issues with my guy friends! Shesh! It's purely practical people, so don't start taking it all personal.

Like I mentioned before, that is precisely what the "maiden name" field is for. It's right there on the name change page, it's not like you can miss it. So if you search for Musey Maidenname, I still show up.

 

[musey]

Date: 1/30/2009 11:19:58 PM
Author: palomablancabride
This whole, 'I don't want my husband's ethnic last name!' is interesting to me. I'm mostly filipino with a very unique very English last name and I don't ever get asked where my last name came from. I've also taken my husband's generic anglo sounding name and I don't anticipate anyone wondering why I have the last name that I do. Obviously if I met a white woman with a Chinese last name I would just assume that her husband was Chinese.

I feel the same way. I was given a Sanskrit/Indian first name, a Hebrew middle name, and adopted my husband's Japanese last name, so my full name is Indian Hebrew Japanese. Makes no ethnic sense as I am very obviously Northwestern European in appearance (PALE freckled skin, strawberry blonde hair). I've had no one question it (except for the lady at the DMV who asked if my new name was Italian...LOL), only comments on how cool my name sounds, which after years of THE most boring last name is a welcome change!

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 1/31/2009 1:07:16 AM
Author: musey

Date: 1/30/2009 10:22:26 PM

Author: trillionaire

I also don''t care how excited people are about being married, lol, if I am being honest.

Really? Isn''t it nice to know that your friends are happy, at least? I dunno, given the whole DB situation I do wonder/worry about my friends who are getting married, and whether they are truly thrilled about it all or just going through the motions. It''s really nice to see an outward expression of their happiness in a somewhat subtle (in my opinion) way.

I went to an all girls high school, and I know people by the names that I met them with. I will probably never met your new husband, I will probably never know your new name.

I''d personally like to hope that the people I am friends with would take a moment or two to either (A) acquaint themselves with my new name, or (B) use the NUMEROUS photos of me to jog their memory as to who I am

I would like people to acknowledge that FB is a networking site, and I can''t FIND YOU if you change your NAME! So leave a trace of your former identity, or you will be lost to me forever and ever!!!

That is my selfish request. I like to reconnect with friends, and all this name changin'' is gettin'' in the way. It''s almost enough to turn me back into a feminazi, because I don''t have to DEAL with these issues with my guy friends! Shesh! It''s purely practical people, so don''t start taking it all personal.

Like I mentioned before, that is precisely what the ''maiden name'' field is for. It''s right there on the name change page, it''s not like you can miss it. So if you search for Musey Maidenname, I still show up.

Sorry Musey, the subject just evokes a lot of frustration for me.

But I just looked at your wedding photos, and WOW!!!

They were amazing, and if I were your friend IRL I would be soooo so so sad if I couldn''t find you on FB b/c you changed your name.

Congrats!!!

 

[tropiqalkiwi]

This is a great discussion, and I just wanted to add my own perspective to the mix.

Many who have posted talk about keeping their identity and say that nothing changes when they got/get married.

I feel like my identity IS changing. Not that my self is being altered in any way, but that I am choosing to no longer be simply a single person. When I agreed to marry my FI I feel like I agreed to share my life with him, and he with me (just to point out we are equals in this). So I don''t think of myself as being the same, I am not different or being forced into something new, but I am growing to accommodate someone else in my life- for the rest of my life. That''s a big change!

So I guess I see the name change as an extension of that feeling, not that I am being passed from the shelter of one male identity to another. I am truly excited to share a name with my betrothed as for me it symbolizes this jump towards being part of a pair. Both names are MY names, but I am happy having my old name represent my single self and the new one my growth into essentially adulthood. I don''t feel like I am losing anything by doing so, simply changing.

Now the issue that we will be taking his name instead of mine is totally not fair, and based on culturally accepted norms. But I''m more interested in this change of identity I feel and am curious about other women''s feeling on this. Do you think of yourself as being exactly the same person you were before you got married/engaged, or was there a change?

 

[basil]

Date: 1/30/2009 11:19:58 PM
Author: palomablancabride
This whole, ''I don''t want my husband''s ethnic last name!'' is interesting to me. I''m mostly filipino with a very unique very English last name and I don''t ever get asked where my last name came from. I''ve also taken my husband''s generic anglo sounding name and I don''t anticipate anyone wondering why I have the last name that I do. Obviously if I met a white woman with a Chinese last name I would just assume that her husband was Chinese.

Say my husband''s last name is "Chang" and I become Dr. Amy Chang. There''s a certain image that most people will have when they think they are going to see Dr. Chang. Not positive or negative for the majority, but there is a definite expectation.

Honestly, I don''t want to walk in the room and not be recognized as the doctor, because the patient is expecting someone who looks different. That happens often enough because I''m a young female. I don''t want to explain it a bunch of times per day. Though we may instantly understand, there are a bunch of 80 year old vets out there who won''t. It wouldn''t ruin my life, but it would be annoying. I imagine it would be similar to those people who have difficult to pronounce or difficult to say last names. These days, the only comment on my name I ever get is "oh, that''s an easy one! I can remember Dr. Smith," and I''d like to keep it that way.

Again, I had many reasons for not wanting to change my name, and this was just a small part of it, not the whole reason. If I had wanted to change my name otherwise, I would have done it.

 

[basil]

Date: 1/31/2009 3:29:42 AM
Author: tropiqalkiwi
Do you think of yourself as being exactly the same person you were before you got married/engaged, or was there a change?

I think of myself the same. I like it better to be married because I love my husband and I want to spend the rest of my life with him, start a family, get old together, etc. But I''m exactly the same person, and so is my husband.

Does your fiance think that he will be a different person when you get married?

 

[tropiqalkiwi]

Date: 1/31/2009 10:06:40 AM
Author: basil

Date: 1/31/2009 3:29:42 AM

Author: tropiqalkiwi

Do you think of yourself as being exactly the same person you were before you got married/engaged, or was there a change?

I think of myself the same. I like it better to be married because I love my husband and I want to spend the rest of my life with him, start a family, get old together, etc. But I''m exactly the same person, and so is my husband.


Does your fiance think that he will be a different person when you get married?

Maybe person was the wrong word for me to choose, but yes we both feel a sense of change as we approach getting married.

And it isn''t that we will be totally different people, we will still be ourselves, just bigger in a way to accommodate each other. Its a very small change, no different goals, friends, activities, or schedules - just less selfish maybe?

I''m still feeling fuzzy on this idea (its really more of a feeling) and trying to put it into words is difficult. Possibly it will be easier when I''m married but who knows. I am curious about others transitions into marriage and if it brought up similar feelings or not, so thank you for sharing!

 

[Rhea]

Date: 1/30/2009 3:20:58 PM
Author: fieryred33143
It still cracks me up that all of this was over facebook.


Anyone else find that funny?


No, just me?


And if you pass judgment on women that change their name on facebook, then I''m glad you don''t have access to my Myspace page. The minute I found out I was pregnant I changed my background from my undergrad mascot to this huge obnoxious blinky that says ''Due in July'' with little fireworks shooting out of it.

I was really caught off guard when I realised that it was over facebook. I thought we were arguing deeper and more meaningful issues until someone brought it up.

Your myspace page sounds very cool. Guess you''re pretty excited about the wee one, huh?

 

[choro72]

Now that the fire has subsided, I want to post a story that I think it's interesting.

Chinese women used to add their husband's name to their full name. They married name will be "HusbandFamilyName" "MaidenFamilyName" "GivenName" (Asians use their family name first). In the recent dacades, no Chinese women take the husband's name. They keep their maiden name, but the children will have the father's name.

Japanese couples on the other hand are not legally married unless you have the same last name. This is done by adding the spouse in the official family record (No marriage certificate or birth certificate in Japan). Most of the time the women take the husband's name. Exception will be if the woman's family is beeping rich and powerful, or if the woman's family lineage is on the line (Such as no boys to take over the name).

When my Chinese mother married my Japanese/Chinese father, she added my dad's name to her full maiden name because of lots of family drama that was going on, and because they live in Japan and they have to have the same name in the record book.
My mom took a step further, and updated her married name in her official documents in Hong Kong. She told me how the ladies at the windows gave her a scandalous look, because it just wasn't the thing to do, with a JAPANESE name on top of that!

All of her sisters keep their maiden names, except for one that hates my grandfather.

I love my maiden name. FI's name is a Chinese equivalent of a "Smith". No offense to Smiths out there, but I like my name so much better

If mine was a Japanese equivalent of a Smith, I would take FI's name, no question asked. So here in the US, I'm keeping my maiden name.

One problem will be if we ever go to Japan and need to proof our marriage, I will have to add FI's name to my family record in Japan, and HIS name will be changed. It's either that or I take HIS name, not mine in Japan (when you get married, you start your own new record as well as having the family's record updated). I didn't know that this could happen! I'm married in the US but not in Japan!?

I guess it makes sense...If I was from a culture where I was married by family exchanging cows and gifts, that wouldn't make me married in the US...

Another interesting note (at least I think so) is that in the US (at least in CA) you have to have some sort of ceremony by an officiant. Marriage and changing names are separate here. In Japan, changing your name in the family records IS getting married. No vows, no witness, no ceremony.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 2/1/2009 3:37:31 PM
Author: choro72
Now that the fire has subsided, I want to post a story that I think it''s interesting.


Chinese women used to add their husband''s name to their full name. They married name will be ''HusbandFamilyName'' ''MaidenFamilyName'' ''GivenName'' (Asians use their family name first). In the recent dacades, no Chinese women take the husband''s name. They keep their maiden name, but the children will have the father''s name.


Japanese couples on the other hand are not legally married unless you have the same last name. This is done by adding the spouse in the official family record (No marriage certificate or birth certificate in Japan). Most of the time the women take the husband''s name. Exception will be if the woman''s family is beeping rich and powerful, or if the woman''s family lineage is on the line (Such as no boys to take over the name).


When my Chinese mother married my Japanese/Chinese father, she added my dad''s name to her full maiden name because of lots of family drama that was going on, and because they live in Japan and they have to have the same name in the record book.

My mom took a step further, and updated her married name in her official documents in Hong Kong. She told me how the ladies at the windows gave her a scandalous look, because it just wasn''t the thing to do, with a JAPANESE name on top of that!

All of her sisters keep their maiden names, except for one that hates my grandfather.


I love my maiden name. FI''s name is a Chinese equivalent of a ''Smith''. No offense to Smiths out there, but I like my name so much better

If mine was a Japanese equivalent of a Smith, I would take FI''s name, no question asked. So here in the US, I''m keeping my maiden name.


One problem will be if we ever go to Japan and need to proof our marriage, I will have to add FI''s name to my family record in Japan, and HIS name will be changed. It''s either that or I take HIS name, not mine in Japan (when you get married, you start your own new record as well as having the family''s record updated). I didn''t know that this could happen! I''m married in the US but not in Japan!?

I guess it makes sense...If I was from a culture where I was married by family exchanging cows and gifts, that wouldn''t make me married in the US...


Another interesting note (at least I think so) is that in the US (at least in CA) you have to have some sort of ceremony by an officiant. Marriage and changing names are separate here. In Japan, changing your name in the family records IS getting married. No vows, no witness, no ceremony.

Oh yes. It''s a very, very weird feeling. That''s very interesting about the cultural differences in how marriages are done, though.

 

[Octavia]

Date: 2/1/2009 3:37:31 PM
Author: choro72
Now that the fire has subsided, I want to post a story that I think it''s interesting.


Chinese women used to add their husband''s name to their full name. They married name will be ''HusbandFamilyName'' ''MaidenFamilyName'' ''GivenName'' (Asians use their family name first). In the recent dacades, no Chinese women take the husband''s name. They keep their maiden name, but the children will have the father''s name.


Japanese couples on the other hand are not legally married unless you have the same last name. This is done by adding the spouse in the official family record (No marriage certificate or birth certificate in Japan). Most of the time the women take the husband''s name. Exception will be if the woman''s family is beeping rich and powerful, or if the woman''s family lineage is on the line (Such as no boys to take over the name).


When my Chinese mother married my Japanese/Chinese father, she added my dad''s name to her full maiden name because of lots of family drama that was going on, and because they live in Japan and they have to have the same name in the record book.

My mom took a step further, and updated her married name in her official documents in Hong Kong. She told me how the ladies at the windows gave her a scandalous look, because it just wasn''t the thing to do, with a JAPANESE name on top of that!

All of her sisters keep their maiden names, except for one that hates my grandfather.


I love my maiden name. FI''s name is a Chinese equivalent of a ''Smith''. No offense to Smiths out there, but I like my name so much better

If mine was a Japanese equivalent of a Smith, I would take FI''s name, no question asked. So here in the US, I''m keeping my maiden name.


One problem will be if we ever go to Japan and need to proof our marriage, I will have to add FI''s name to my family record in Japan, and HIS name will be changed. It''s either that or I take HIS name, not mine in Japan (when you get married, you start your own new record as well as having the family''s record updated). I didn''t know that this could happen! I''m married in the US but not in Japan!?

I guess it makes sense...If I was from a culture where I was married by family exchanging cows and gifts, that wouldn''t make me married in the US...


Another interesting note (at least I think so) is that in the US (at least in CA) you have to have some sort of ceremony by an officiant. Marriage and changing names are separate here. In Japan, changing your name in the family records IS getting married. No vows, no witness, no ceremony.

Choro, I''m actually working on a research paper about marital name laws in various countries, and usually in situations like that, you can choose which country''s law to be governed by. This is an issue in my marriage, as well -- in my FI''s native country (where he is still a citizen), women MUST adopt their husbands'' surnames. However, since I''m a US citizen and we are getting married in the US, the legitimacy of our marriage will be governed by US law. We won''t suddenly be "un-married" when we go to his country because we won''t share a surname. However if we were to ever move there and I wanted to apply for citizenship there as his spouse, I would have to change my name because I would no longer be governed by American law. It might be different in Japan, I haven''t done as much research on the laws there (though you''re right about the enforced family name), but you should check into the specifics of the law if you''re concerned.

 

[Gypsy]

I find the judgement about the FB issue hilarious. Not "HaHa" hiliarious, mind you... more "dear god no" hilarious.

I find the I don't want to change my name because his is ethnic mildly troubling. Mildly, because I can kind of sympathize with the POV, troubling, because while I sympathize I don't agree. But, ultimately, its not my place to judge.

I didn't change my name after the wedding. But I still might. DH doesn't care, it's up to me. Both lastnames I have to 'chose' from are men's last names. One my a**hole father's the other my husbands (which belonged to his dad --great guy--, which belonged to his dad... whom no one liked). Yes I have a choice, and yes its mine to make. And my reasons are my own and I DO NOT have to justify them to anyone. Nor will I. It amounts to... "because that's what I decided."

But no, my DH will not change or hyphenate his name. And that's his choice. I don't judge him for his decision to make.

Live and let live folks. Just because someone wants to follow tradition doesn't mean their choice was thoughless. And just because someone choses to keep their maiden name doesn't mean that it's a thoughtful decision.

Think about this:

Woman A-- takes her husband's name because she IS traditional, wants children with the family name, and does not feel that asking her husband to change his is right. She's thought all this through carefully, and made an informed choice, and would not impose her choice on any one else, including her daughter.

Woman B-- doesn't take her husbands name because the thought of the paperwork is overwelming. She doesn't know exactly what the paperwork will entail, she just can't be bothered. Hasn't given the issue any thought at all beyond that.

Who is the "smarter" and more "evolved" woman. And do you have the right to judge either of them? I don't feel I do.

 

[Rhea]

Choro, that''s really interesting. Thank you for sharing about what happens in other cultures.

 

[Definitely. Maybe]

Choro- Good post. I love learning about other cultures and how they differ from my own, I found it very interesting.I know this wasn''t the purpose of your post, but I really love the idea of a family record book. I think that would make research of my famiily much easier! Too bad my family couldn''t have thought of doing it.

Gypsy- I have briefly followed this thread (mainly because people seem to have a LOT to say on the issue of name changing) and found your post to be one of the best. I agree with you that I do not have the right to judge someone else or question their choices.

 

[cara]

Date: 2/1/2009 10:02:22 PM
Author: Gypsy
I didn't change my name after the wedding. But I still might. DH doesn't care, it's up to me. Both lastnames I have to 'chose' from are men's last names. One my a**hole father's the other my husbands (which belonged to his dad --great guy--, which belonged to his dad... whom no one liked). Yes I have a choice, and yes its mine to make. And my reasons are my own and I DO NOT have to justify them to anyone. Nor will I. It amounts to... 'because that's what I decided.'

Sigh... It's your name Gypsy, your name to change if you don't like it, your name to change if you want a different one, but still YOUR name now. Presumably, it is what people have been calling you your whole life.

I find the judgement about the FB issue hilarious. Not "HaHa" hiliarious, mind you... more "dear god no" hilarious.

I guess that's why I don't find the FB problem so funny... Its one thing for someone to intentionally go into hiding and make it difficult for childhood friends to track them down, but in the context of marital namechanges, its are rather significant unintended side effect.

I find the I don't want to change my name because his is ethnic mildly troubling. Mildly, because I can kind of sympathize with the POV, troubling, because while I sympathize I don't agree. But, ultimately, its not my place to judge.

And why I don't find it as troubling for a woman to be reluctant to take her husband's last name of a different ethnicity - its not necessarily a rejection of him. If taking his name is just about him, well then yes, I can see it as racist, but its also a label for *her* and often implies not just a specific man but a nationality or ethnicity as well. I think it is completely understandable that Mary Kearney might give up more of her own identity by becoming Mary Zhang than if she became Mary O'Brian. Racist if you just see it as a rejection of her husband's name for its ethnic content, but more understandable if you see that Mary might want to keep her own identity as Irish as part of her own name.

But no, my DH will not change or hyphenate his name. And that's his choice. I don't judge him for his decision to make.

But if he wanted a joint family name, would it be his choice to make for you?

Guessing you'll say no given your earlier bit, but I refer to the title of the thread: 'I don't want to change my last name, but he wants me too...'

I don't want to judge either, the name problem is a hard one, but I guess my motivation in posting is partly to get people thinking about why its OK for the guy to pressure in this situation as posted, and why so many women just decide to change their name without really discussing any other options (a la Woman A above.) If they want it, fine, but if they have any hesitation...

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/2/2009 2:02:50 PM
Author: cara
I don''t want to judge either, the name problem is a hard one, but I guess my motivation in posting is partly to get people thinking about why its OK for the guy to pressure in this situation as posted, and why so many women just decide to change their name without really discussing any other options (a la Woman A above.) If they want it, fine, but if they have any hesitation...

But Cara, Woman A was the woman that did think the issue through. She didn''t have hesitation AND she thought it through. Did you mean Woman B?

 

[Scorpioanne]

What your name is should be your choice. I think names are important. When I was married the first time I took his name but eventually came to dislike being called Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast so I went back to my maiden name. My son had his dad''s name and it was no big deal. When my ex remarried he took his new wife''s name which was a hypenated family name. My son ended up with no parents with the same name as him so I changed his name to mine (My dad was very happy). When I remarried I added my husband''s name to mine so have a double surname with no hyphen as he had kids and I wanted my son to still have a connection to my name. I almost always get called by the double surname.

 

[Circe]

Huh, loaded thread!

I kept my last name when I got married: partially because I''m the last of my line, partially because I''ve accomplished a hell of a lot under my own name, partially because I am a feminist, and because a lot of the issues surrounding the name change trouble me. That said, I don''t approve or disapprove of anybody else''s choice, because the reasons are highly individual and hugely personal ... but I am amused over the fact that one of the points of debate in the argument is over "judging."

Thing is, from my perspective, everybody judges. It''s human nature. But generally, we also employ enough judgment and/or tact to keep from *sharing* our judgments with innocent bystanders, because, a) it''s meddlesome and irrelevant to their life choices, and b) being vocally judge-y generally only serves to make you look a bit silly by the norms of etiquette.

I think one of the big issues is that women are ripe for this kind of public scrutiny in a way that men generally aren''t: women are expected to conform on a greater number of counts, and according to a stricter scale. And the sad thing is, we enforce it ourselves, over and over and over again in this strange constructed divide between "feminism" and "femininity." But you know what? It''s a damned red herring that only serves to set us against one another, and to keep from accomplishing anything worthwhile. Bah.

BlissfulBride, I hope that you and your partner can have a serious talk about the issues behind all this, and that you reach a solution that satisfies you both, regardless of whether you change yours, he changes his, you both hyphenate, or you choose to call yourself by some neologism of nomenclature like The Crankypants Family. And don''t let anybody give you any guff over it! At the end of the day, it''s your *name.* It''s how you choose to be known to the world. It''s important. So the main person whom you have to please in regards to it is yourself.

 

[Po10472]

I haven''t so far taken my husbands name and we''ve been married nearly 5 years. Why - cos this is my name and I am hanging on to it. I''m going to tag on my married name once we have children so that we all have a ''family'' name but our kids will have my name as their middle name so that my name carries on down the line. We didn''t have any boys in our family.

Meet in the middle ground and ask him to add your name to his whilst you add his to yours!! I couldn''t ask my DH to have another name as his mother gave him 6 names already!!!

 

[jstarfireb]

Date: 1/31/2009 10:00:13 AM
Author: basil

Date: 1/30/2009 11:19:58 PM

Author: palomablancabride

This whole, ''I don''t want my husband''s ethnic last name!'' is interesting to me. I''m mostly filipino with a very unique very English last name and I don''t ever get asked where my last name came from. I''ve also taken my husband''s generic anglo sounding name and I don''t anticipate anyone wondering why I have the last name that I do. Obviously if I met a white woman with a Chinese last name I would just assume that her husband was Chinese.

Say my husband''s last name is ''Chang'' and I become Dr. Amy Chang. There''s a certain image that most people will have when they think they are going to see Dr. Chang. Not positive or negative for the majority, but there is a definite expectation.

Honestly, I don''t want to walk in the room and not be recognized as the doctor, because the patient is expecting someone who looks different. That happens often enough because I''m a young female. I don''t want to explain it a bunch of times per day. Though we may instantly understand, there are a bunch of 80 year old vets out there who won''t. It wouldn''t ruin my life, but it would be annoying. I imagine it would be similar to those people who have difficult to pronounce or difficult to say last names. These days, the only comment on my name I ever get is ''oh, that''s an easy one! I can remember Dr. Smith,'' and I''d like to keep it that way.

Again, I had many reasons for not wanting to change my name, and this was just a small part of it, not the whole reason. If I had wanted to change my name otherwise, I would have done it.

Basil, that is exactly what went through my head, and it''s also only one of many reasons why I don''t want to change my name. I''m also a doc and would be in a "Dr. Chang" situation. On the other hand, I don''t have an easy last name like Smith; I actually do have a very ethnic last name, but it''s my ethnicity (Eastern European), not someone else''s. I''m fine with an ethnic name as long as I look the part.

 

[CellarDoor]

I think that I would probably punch someone in the face if they referred to me as Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast.

I also have a problem with the whole "I now pronounce you man and wife", the man is still a man, while the woman is now a wife which is a moniker that reflects her relationship to another person.

Another problem I have is when the couple arrives at the reception and the DJ says "Introducing Mr. and Mrs. HisLast!!!", same thing - the man''s name does not change.

I wonder if the women who allow the officiant to say "Man and wife" even think about what it means.

 

[cbs102]

Date: 2/2/2009 4:31:30 PM
Author: CellarDoor
I think that I would probably punch someone in the face if they referred to me as Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast.

I also have a problem with the whole ''I now pronounce you man and wife'', the man is still a man, while the woman is now a wife which is a moniker that reflects her relationship to another person.

Another problem I have is when the couple arrives at the reception and the DJ says ''Introducing Mr. and Mrs. HisLast!!!'', same thing - the man''s name does not change.

I wonder if the women who allow the officiant to say ''Man and wife'' even think about what it means.

here we go again...

 

[cara]

Author: Gypsy

Woman A-- takes her husband''s name because she IS traditional, wants children with the family name, and does not feel that asking her husband to change his is right. She''s thought all this through carefully, and made an informed choice, and would not impose her choice on any one else, including her daughter.

Woman B-- doesn''t take her husbands name because the thought of the paperwork is overwelming. She doesn''t know exactly what the paperwork will entail, she just can''t be bothered. Hasn''t given the issue any thought at all beyond that.

Date: 2/2/2009 2:32:49 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS

Date: 2/2/2009 2:02:50 PMAuthor: cara
...why its OK for the guy to pressure in this situation as posted, and why so many women just decide to change their name without really discussing any other options (a la Woman A above.) If they want it, fine, but if they have any hesitation...

But Cara, Woman A was the woman that did think the issue through. She didn''t have hesitation AND she thought it through. Did you mean Woman B?

She thinks it through but "does not feel that asking her husband to change his is right." Why not? Because he''s male?? If she really wants to change her own name and has no hesitation about any of the other ramifications, great, done. But its not necessarily a more thoughtful or evolved course than Woman B if A had any hesitation and chose not to raise other possibilities with her husband.

Woman B doesn''t sound like she cares much one way or another. Sure, she would be dumb if she actually badly wanted to take her husband''s name and let the bureaucracy get in the way, but a woman that makes a path of least resistance decision because she hasn''t made up her mind yet or didn''t really feel strongly about it sounds perfectly reasonable. Like Gypsy. Not dumb or unevolved.

This debate gets back to the point about feminism and choices. Its not just about women having choices, its about questioning why those choices, why do women make them, do men have the same choices and how does society judge people who make either choice?

So, yes, if Woman A thinks, "I want a family name, hyphens are cumbersome and males that change their names are weenies (or are seen as weenies), I guess I have to change mine" that makes perfect sense but is still a sad state of affairs. Woman A could also have thought, "Oh of course I want the same name as my husband and children and will gladly change my name because that is just how its done/as god intended/a sign of love for my husband/what women do/etc" that also makes perfect sense and is a somewhat different sad state of affairs (from my perspective.)

I guess I do agree with Gypsy that its not a great idea to assign ''smart'' or ''evolved'' terms to either decision. But it is interesting to hear people''s reasoning. Its like asking a vegetarian why they choose their diet. I have gotten: medical reason, religion, environmental reasons, bunnies are cute, don''t like the taste of meat, among others.

 

[jstarfireb]

Date: 2/2/2009 4:31:30 PM
Author: CellarDoor
I think that I would probably punch someone in the face if they referred to me as Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast.

I also have a problem with the whole ''I now pronounce you man and wife'', the man is still a man, while the woman is now a wife which is a moniker that reflects her relationship to another person.

Another problem I have is when the couple arrives at the reception and the DJ says ''Introducing Mr. and Mrs. HisLast!!!'', same thing - the man''s name does not change.

I wonder if the women who allow the officiant to say ''Man and wife'' even think about what it means.

CellarDoor, I''m wouldn''t word it quite so strongly, but I agree on all points. I would be very offended by being called Mrs. HisFirst HisLast...like all of a sudden I''m no longer a separate individual by getting married?!? No WAY!

This is where the beauty lies in writing your own ceremony. Mine will go like this:
"I now pronounce you husband and wife" (not man and wife, noting that both of us have entered into the marriage willingly, and I''m not his possession)
"Please share your first kiss as a married couple" (not "you may kiss the bride" - it''s my right to kiss him too!)
"Introducing for the very first time, Mr. HisFirst HisLast and Mrs. MyFirst MyLast-HisLast!"

 

[lala2332]

cara--no attacking, but do you think it is ever ok and not sad for a woman to change her name?

NOt trying to attack, just curious!!!!!


____________________________________________________________________________________________

I cannot wait to change my name, but thats me and a decision that I made. Maybe b/c I''ve been "trained" to think that is what I want, or maybe not. There is no way to know.

I ldo ove that there are so many options available, and I thank the women that fought for that to be the case.

Howevre, bucking tradition just because it is a tradition isn''t making a choice, its a new trend in and of itself. Thats why I don''t think you should or can judge someone on something as personal as changing their name. Unless they are incredibly close to you, you have no idea what motivated them.

my .02

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

Date: 2/2/2009 4:31:30 PM
Author: CellarDoor
I think that I would probably punch someone in the face if they referred to me as Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast.

I also have a problem with the whole 'I now pronounce you man and wife', the man is still a man, while the woman is now a wife which is a moniker that reflects her relationship to another person.

Another problem I have is when the couple arrives at the reception and the DJ says 'Introducing Mr. and Mrs. HisLast!!!', same thing - the man's name does not change.

I wonder if the women who allow the officiant to say 'Man and wife' even think about what it means.

I've heard "husband and wife" as well as "man and wife". I've never been offended by "man and wife" though.

I don't have the time or desire to comb through every single tradition or convenience or phrase in my life to make sure that its origins aren't offensive or shady or outdated. I'm not going to quit passing on the right just because we don't carry swords anymore, ya know?

I kind of feel like, "so what if the woman taking the man's name came from some idea of ownership or protection?" That's not what it means now, so I'm not going to get all riled up about it. Nobody hears my mother's name and thinks, 'oh, that lady belongs to Mike so-and-so.' They simply think that they are married.

If women want to keep their name, great. If they want to take their husband's name, that's cool. Whatever. I personally am not into inventing a completely new system, so I'm just going with the tradition that seems to work fine. It's not hurting anybody.

 

[Haven]

Date: 1/30/2009 2:44:42 PM
Author: musey

Bia.

This whole name thing is beyond me. I place next to NO importance on my name as being an identifier for ME, so it''s difficult for me to comprehend all this drama surrounding to-change-or-not-to-change.

My name change had nothing to do with tradition, personally.

Ditto to the above, and to much of what Bia and Musey said.

I do not base my identity on my name, or on the roles I occupy throughout my life. To do either seems like a confining practice, especially when you consider the impermanence of things. I don''t see much difference between believing that your name is a part of your identity and believing that the things you own are a part of your identity.

Here are my jumbled responses to what''s been discussed in this very interesting thread:

- I changed my surname to my husband''s surname. I did not keep my maiden name at all. It is just a name, and strong name identification seems (to me) like just another way of dividing people into "us" and "them." I believe we are asking for trouble when we infuse names with meaning. (Anyone read Romeo and Juliet?)

- I am a high school teacher. My colleagues seemed to have adopted this method for identifying me this year: Haven (Maidenname) Marriedname. The only confusion has been with students who are enrolled in my class yet didn''t realize it until the first day because they didn''t recognize my married name.

- The name change process was incredibly easy in Illinois. DMV, Social Security, phone calls to the bank, credit cards, and student loan people. Done. I''m sorry to hear it''s so difficult in other states.

- jen2m: I''ve heard of couples choosing entirely new surnames for themselves after marriage. One couple I know chose a Hebrew word that they felt represents them. This seemed like a nice practice, although again, my name has nothing to do with my identity, so I wouldn''t have done the same.

- I found the Facebook discussion to be incredibly amusing. I''m not sure I would want to befriend anyone on that website if I was so out of touch with their life that I wouldn''t recognize them by their married name. I''m one of "those" women (again--see the "us" vs. "them" mentality?) who changed her name right after marriage. What are you gonna do about it?

OP: If you don''t want to take his name, don''t! Simple. Now, if you choose that and he doesn''t respect that choice, things will likely get a bit sticky. But hopefully that won''t be the case.

I''ve enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you for your thoughtful discussion.

 

[cara]

Date: 2/2/2009 5:03:50 PM
Author: lala2332
cara--no attacking, but do you think it is ever ok and not sad for a woman to change her name?

I totally DO think its OK - I think the naming problem is a hard one. Hyphens are cumbersome and, if given to children, just postpone the problem a generation. It is valid to want to have the same name as your children or spouse or to get rid of the name you were given at birth (sometimes it is the name of a person you don''t like or just difficult like Fauker). One of my concerns is continuity of name across a person''s lifespan, and it doesn''t necessarily help if, say, the family takes a new, blended name. Name still changes at marriage, makes it difficult to find the married people - it just happens to be a more equitable disruption.

For myself, I could see changing *maybe* if I ever left academia. Ideally I would use both a la Hillary Rodham Clinton but its really hard to make society keep two last names around, and I don''t care for the hyphen, so I think I have to be realistic. The appeal to name changing, to me, is practical. I went to a panel on Family Issues for Women in the Sciences, and several of the women (married foreign-born professors with kids) spoke of carrying their marriage licenses in their wallets because of the hassle of crossing international borders with your child that has a different last name. Their husbands shared a last name with their kids and didn''t have to worry about this A small point, but you get the idea.

Frankly, part of my resistance to name changing is cultural - it is a sign of a certain attitude acceptance of feminism that a woman keeps her name - just as it is a sign of a certain cultural flavor that a woman willingly takes her husband''s name upon marriage. Especially in academia, where it is more common than not that a woman keep her name, especially if she marries later, it is only the more culturally conservative women that will be changing theirs. So if I am keeping my name partly because of a certain personal identification, I can''t exactly judge a woman for changing hers to meet a different cultural expectation. (Even if I can categorize her: more conservative!) Though her reasoning helps me to figure out the degree and accuracy of my categorization.

And the feminist in me often wants to question her reasoning (and the state of the world that creates such a sexist system!)