I don''t want to change my last name, but he wants me too.

[Haven]

I should add that I find it amusing how this discussion has evolved into one that divides women into different categories: feminist, traditional, anti-feminist, weak, et cetera. Or, in other words, we are renaming these women as feminists, traditionalists, etc.

Does anyone else see the irony here? We are talking about identifying with names, and then we use the way women choose to incorporate or not incorporate their husband''s surnames into their own names to identify them as members of groups that we either do or do not approve of.

I just think it was worth noting. And it''s one reason why I personally think it is a dangerous practice to use things like names, or gender, or race, or ethnicity, or belongings to identify others, or ourselves.

 

[choro72]

Octavia, you''re right. There is really no reason I should be worried about our situation in Japan because we plan to live here. I guess we''ll be in the same boat as you; we''ll worry about it if we ever move to Japan. Thanks! Made me a little relieved about fewer paperwork.

Definitely, Maybe and Addy, I''m glad you found it interesting

It''s the only reason I posted it. It''s great to have a choice here.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/2/2009 4:49:37 PM
Author: cara

Author: Gypsy


Woman A-- takes her husband''s name because she IS traditional, wants children with the family name, and does not feel that asking her husband to change his is right. She''s thought all this through carefully, and made an informed choice, and would not impose her choice on any one else, including her daughter.


Woman B-- doesn''t take her husbands name because the thought of the paperwork is overwelming. She doesn''t know exactly what the paperwork will entail, she just can''t be bothered. Hasn''t given the issue any thought at all beyond that.

Date: 2/2/2009 2:32:49 PM

Author: SarahLovesJS

Date: 2/2/2009 2:02:50 PMAuthor: cara

...why its OK for the guy to pressure in this situation as posted, and why so many women just decide to change their name without really discussing any other options (a la Woman A above.) If they want it, fine, but if they have any hesitation...

But Cara, Woman A was the woman that did think the issue through. She didn''t have hesitation AND she thought it through. Did you mean Woman B?

She thinks it through but ''does not feel that asking her husband to change his is right.'' Why not? Because he''s male?? If she really wants to change her own name and has no hesitation about any of the other ramifications, great, done. But its not necessarily a more thoughtful or evolved course than Woman B if A had any hesitation and chose not to raise other possibilities with her husband.


Woman B doesn''t sound like she cares much one way or another. Sure, she would be dumb if she actually badly wanted to take her husband''s name and let the bureaucracy get in the way, but a woman that makes a path of least resistance decision because she hasn''t made up her mind yet or didn''t really feel strongly about it sounds perfectly reasonable. Like Gypsy. Not dumb or unevolved.

This debate gets back to the point about feminism and choices. Its not just about women having choices, its about questioning why those choices, why do women make them, do men have the same choices and how does society judge people who make either choice?


So, yes, if Woman A thinks, ''I want a family name, hyphens are cumbersome and males that change their names are weenies (or are seen as weenies), I guess I have to change mine'' that makes perfect sense but is still a sad state of affairs. Woman A could also have thought, ''Oh of course I want the same name as my husband and children and will gladly change my name because that is just how its done/as god intended/a sign of love for my husband/what women do/etc'' that also makes perfect sense and is a somewhat different sad state of affairs (from my perspective.)


I guess I do agree with Gypsy that its not a great idea to assign ''smart'' or ''evolved'' terms to either decision. But it is interesting to hear people''s reasoning. Its like asking a vegetarian why they choose their diet. I have gotten: medical reason, religion, environmental reasons, bunnies are cute, don''t like the taste of meat, among others.

Ohh so you were referencing the husband not changing his name and not her choice about her own name? Well then, sorry for the confusion.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/2/2009 5:31:02 PM
Author: Haven
I should add that I find it amusing how this discussion has evolved into one that divides women into different categories: feminist, traditional, anti-feminist, weak, et cetera. Or, in other words, we are renaming these women as feminists, traditionalists, etc.


Does anyone else see the irony here? We are talking about identifying with names, and then we use the way women choose to incorporate or not incorporate their husband''s surnames into their own names to identify them as members of groups that we either do or do not approve of.


I just think it was worth noting. And it''s one reason why I personally think it is a dangerous practice to use things like names, or gender, or race, or ethnicity, or belongings to identify others, or ourselves.

I find it hilarious to be honest and not snarky at all, I promise!

I always thought I was a feminist, but after reading this thread I guess I''m just an ignorant, no will having, permanently socialized, doomed to sit at home making babies with my law degree, cleaning the house, washing dishes, non-evolved chick.

I personally LOVE the idea of taking FI''s name. Ahh guess I spent too much time watching Cinderella as a kid so I''m doomed forever to lose the feminist fight (not to mention my Mom was a SAHM OMG

). Okay I am getting snarky now so I''m going to shut up. But yes, I do find it amusing that many (not all) are judging as well as forcing labels and categories on something it''s hard to put labels and categories on.

 

[Haven]

Sarah--You made me laugh.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I want to clarify something, though: I wasn''t trying to say that anyone was snarky or out of line, I was just commenting on the nature of this entire discussion, not on one side or the other.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

I just wanted to throw this idea out there... if y'all disagree feel free to throw it back.. But if a woman, or man for that matter, is secure in whom they are, as a person, then taking another person's name, or keeping their own, really shouldn't matter at all. I am a very confident, secure woman, and I am adding my FI last name to mine (non-hyphenated). My FI has never once asked me to take his last name, it was a decision I made all on my own. I like the idea of providing a label to our unity. I think had he told me I HAVE to change my last name, I probably would have freaked out.

I am not threatened of losing my identity, and I could care less what people think of my *personal* decision. I think it's honorable to take his last name, as I respect him and his family, and I will wear it proudly. We have thrown around the idea of using our two last names for our children, but we will decide when the time comes.

As others have pointed out, feminism is about the right to CHOOSE, and equal opportunity. Is not about criticizing other people's decisions... Jeez. I hate fanatical view points, whether they are religious, philosophical, or moral. I can't stand when people try to push their beliefs on to other people... Can't we all just be more accepting of each other???

 

[musey]

Date: 2/2/2009 10:24:27 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite
I just wanted to throw this idea out there... if y'all disagree feel free to throw it back.. But if a woman, or man for that matter, is secure in whom they are, as a person, then taking another person's name, or keeping their own, really shouldn't matter at all.

I think that's what a large portion of us have been saying - and that's why it's incomprehensible as to why it seems to matter so much to some other people, or why they would judge others for making any combination of choices (whether that's to add the new one, replace the old one, hyphenate, not change at all - whatever!).

I can't stand when people try to push their beliefs on to other people... Can't we all just be more accepting of each other???

Yes, please!

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/2/2009 10:24:27 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite
I just wanted to throw this idea out there... if y''all disagree feel free to throw it back.. But if a woman, or man for that matter, is secure in whom they are, as a person, then taking another person''s name, or keeping their own, really shouldn''t matter at all. I am a very confident, secure woman, and I am adding my FI last name to mine (non-hyphenated). My FI has never once asked me to take his last name, it was a decision I made all on my own. I like the idea of providing a label to our unity. I think had he told me I HAVE to change my last name, I probably would have freaked out.


I am not threatened of losing my identity, and I could care less what people think of my *personal* decision. I think it''s honorable to take his last name, as I respect him and his family, and I will wear it proudly. We have thrown around the idea of using our two last names for our children, but we will decide when the time comes.


As others have pointed out, feminism is about the right to CHOOSE, and equal opportunity. Is not about criticizing other people''s decisions... Jeez. I hate fanatical view points, whether they are religious, philosophical, or moral. I can''t stand when people try to push their beliefs on to other people... Can''t we all just be more accepting of each other???

I''ll hop on that train and ditto you and Musey!

 

[AdiS]

Date: 2/2/2009 4:49:29 PM
Author: cbs102

Date: 2/2/2009 4:31:30 PM
Author: CellarDoor
I think that I would probably punch someone in the face if they referred to me as Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast.

I also have a problem with the whole ''I now pronounce you man and wife'', the man is still a man, while the woman is now a wife which is a moniker that reflects her relationship to another person.

Another problem I have is when the couple arrives at the reception and the DJ says ''Introducing Mr. and Mrs. HisLast!!!'', same thing - the man''s name does not change.

I wonder if the women who allow the officiant to say ''Man and wife'' even think about what it means.

here we go again...

 

[Gypsy]

Cara-- regarding Woman A. In my mind, I was thinking that husband and wife has discussed the name options including him changing his name (just as I did with my husband) and that he didn't feel that was something he wanted to do. And just as he wasn't imposing his will on her, she didn't feel she could ask him to change his name, and impose her will on him.

Regarding "evolved" and "smarter"... I don't think you ever know WHY people make such extremely PERSONAL decisions, or that you have the right to judge them for making those decisions. I just support their right to make whatever decision they want to, for whatever reasons, without having to worry about someone labling them thoughtlessly, so long as their decision doesn't harm another person and isn't done with malicious intent to harm another. That's basically it. Nothing deeper in there than that.

Thank you very much Definitely, Maybe.

 

[bee*]

Date: 2/2/2009 10:49:38 PM
Author: musey

Date: 2/2/2009 10:24:27 PM

Author: ilovethiswebsite

I just wanted to throw this idea out there... if y''all disagree feel free to throw it back.. But if a woman, or man for that matter, is secure in whom they are, as a person, then taking another person''s name, or keeping their own, really shouldn''t matter at all.

I think that''s what a large portion of us have been saying - and that''s why it''s incomprehensible as to why it seems to matter so much to some other people, or why they would judge others for making any combination of choices (whether that''s to add the new one, replace the old one, hyphenate, not change at all - whatever!).

I can''t stand when people try to push their beliefs on to other people... Can''t we all just be more accepting of each other???

Yes, please!

ditto to both girls! Each to their own. I wish people would stop judging others on their choice, especially one which does not intrude on anyone else at all.

 

[trillionaire]

Whenever I answer SO''s phone for business or professional reasons, or call about reservations or something that we have booked, I get the "Hello Mrs. HisLastName!" treatment. The gal of this was very flooring and off putting at first (to me). I still associate the name with his mother! At any rate, it doesn''t infuriate me anymore, but it also doesn''t seem like they are talking to me. But it is fun to tease SO and say "You WISH!"

 

[lala2332]

Date: 2/3/2009 9:43:55 AM
Author: trillionaire
Whenever I answer SO''s phone for business or professional reasons, or call about reservations or something that we have booked, I get the ''Hello Mrs. HisLastName!'' treatment. The gal of this was very flooring and off putting at first (to me). I still associate the name with his mother! At any rate, it doesn''t infuriate me anymore, but it also doesn''t seem like they are talking to me. But it is fun to tease SO and say ''You WISH!''

trillionaire: I''ve always loved when this happens...haha! Especially when I was LIW!! I had forgotten how excited I got the first time it happened.

oh well....to each their own!

 

[Rhea]

Date: 2/2/2009 4:31:30 PM
Author: CellarDoor
I think that I would probably punch someone in the face if they referred to me as Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast.

I can assure you that I''ve never punched my husband''s best friend''s parents in the face. The mother honestly thought that it was legal requirement that I take my husband''s last name. I politely informed her that it wasn''t.

I also didn''t punch my childhood friend, just informed her that we were not "The Smith Family".

And strangely enough I didn''t punch my husband''s counsin either.

I would have had to do a lot of punching and frankly, that''s not good for family relationship or friendships. It''s much easier to smile and inform someone that I kept my name. If someone has questions, and most do, it''s a good time to inform the person, that, for example, I am not legally required to change my name or give any children his last name.

My DJ announced us as Mr. & Mrs. Hislast. My husband and I both shouted that we kept our names. So then the DJ announced us as Mr. & Mrs. Mylast and finally "3rd times the charm, they are really Mr. Hislast & Ms. Herlast" to be funny. And it was funny. Everything in stride. There are much much bigger things in life to get upset about.

I assure you, name change or not, no one disappears after marriage.

 

[brandy_z28]

Date: 2/3/2009 1:22:05 PM
Author: Addy

Date: 2/2/2009 4:31:30 PM
Author: CellarDoor
I think that I would probably punch someone in the face if they referred to me as Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast.

I can assure you that I''ve never punched my husband''s best friend''s parents in the face. The mother honestly thought that it was legal requirement that I take my husband''s last name. I politely informed her that it wasn''t.

I also didn''t punch my childhood friend, just informed her that we were not ''The Smith Family''.

And strangely enough I didn''t punch my husband''s counsin either.

I would have had to do a lot of punching and frankly, that''s not good for family relationship or friendships. It''s much easier to smile and inform someone that I kept my name. If someone has questions, and most do, it''s a good time to inform the person, that, for example, I am not legally required to change my name or give any children his last name.

My DJ announced us as Mr. & Mrs. Hislast. My husband and I both shouted that we kept our names. So then the DJ announced us as Mr. & Mrs. Mylast and finally ''3rd times the charm, they are really Mr. Hislast & Ms. Herlast'' to be funny. And it was funny. Everything in stride. There are much much bigger things in life to get upset about.

I assure you, name change or not, no one disappears after marriage.

I found your post particularly funny Addy! (Then again I''m sick with the flu and am NOT in my right mind.) You really had me LOL with your last line. I wonder if that''s why we all have social security numbers...hmmm...you can change your name to whatever you like however many times you like yet the government still knows who you are...