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I had an I diamond appraised today, and was told that it was a K.

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I really like what David W had to say in his last post. We all pull hard for the industry and consumers.

Someone mentioned that I was implying something bad about Brian Gavin. It was not intended to impugn his integrity which I believe is not in question. It is a matter of doing business that one buys a diamond based on knowledge and sells it nearly all the time based on the lab report. One could say this exploits lab reports and unwitting consumers, but it is a simple market fact that reports where a diamond is harshly graded are often refused by diamond dealers and re-submitted for a better grade consideration. Many of these diamonds are re-graded a color or clarity grade higher. It is a game that is played and it is played because it is the way money is earned. Its a cold, hard truth that honesty needs to meet a practical level of application when it comes to selling a hotly competitive product. Any little edge is a game to be exploited. This is LEGITIMATE, not unethical or even immoral.

Pricescopers, as perfectionists or idealists, we can complain that this is a lack of honesty, but I prefer to see this as the best we can do in our free market while we still employ subjective grading. I have not questioned anyone''s honesty here. Sellers, consumers, and appraisers all are entitled to their opinion of quality, but major labs make these documents we agree to live by. I see no problem in this in most circumstances. Even in this sticky situation, we have found a middle road that meets the needs of all concerned. To me, that''s a good outcome.

Everyone has succeeded here, and reasonable compromises have been offered. I only wish the foreign policy of the good old USA could be so readily resolved. I''d be glad to donate an entire day or a week to the process if the outcome could be so good. No doubt, we all wish Harriet the best whatever she decides to do.
 
Date: 12/29/2006 4:29:36 PM
Author: JustAppraisers
Harriet,

With all that's been said, you know my opinion and how it was rendered, and I think I understand your concern, but in the end, this is a prize stone. From the heart, I also appreciate your direct approach and how constructive all of the players have been in getting you to a comfortable place where you and Adam can make a confident bid on this unique gem. But, this entire process, the knowledge, the dialogue and pricescope, all is unique. Nothing good comes easy and this is a testament to you, Adam and the relationship you forge. I want to publicly thank David Atlas. The experience, the brains and the integrity, Thanks for holding the candle high. You are a gift to our profession. And Kudos to Whiteflash, and all the caring and professional comments from all sides who got involved.

A special sincere, wish for You and Adam, Happy, Healthy 2007,

Respectfully,

David Wolf
Thank you for the eloquent post David. We respect your dedication and join you in thanking David Atlas for his services and the members of this unique community for the input.

Harriet, we know you simply want a beautiful diamond at a fair price. Most of all, we appreciate your patience and willingness to communicate with all involved.
 
Date: 12/29/2006 5:15:48 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 12/29/2006 4:29:36 PM
Author: JustAppraisers
Harriet,

With all that''s been said, you know my opinion and how it was rendered, and I think I understand your concern, but in the end, this is a prize stone. From the heart, I also appreciate your direct approach and how constructive all of the players have been in getting you to a comfortable place where you and Adam can make a confident bid on this unique gem. But, this entire process, the knowledge, the dialogue and pricescope, all is unique. Nothing good comes easy and this is a testament to you, Adam and the relationship you forge. I want to publicly thank David Atlas. The experience, the brains and the integrity, Thanks for holding the candle high. You are a gift to our profession. And Kudos to Whiteflash, and all the caring and professional comments from all sides who got involved.

A special sincere, wish for You and Adam, Happy, Healthy 2007,

Respectfully,

David Wolf
Thank you for the eloquent post David. We respect your dedication and join you in thanking David Atlas for his services and the members of this unique community for the input.

Harriet, we know you simply want a beautiful diamond at a fair price. Most of all, we appreciate your patience and willingness to communicate with all involved.
John,

You thought this thread would make it to 5 pages. You just started the 6th!
 
Date: 12/29/2006 4:29:36 PM
Author: JustAppraisers
Harriet,

With all that's been said, you know my opinion and how it was rendered, and I think I understand your concern, but in the end, this is a prize stone. From the heart, I also appreciate your direct approach and how constructive all of the players have been in getting you to a comfortable place where you and Adam can make a confident bid on this unique gem. But, this entire process, the knowledge, the dialogue and pricescope, all is unique. Nothing good comes easy and this is a testament to you, Adam and the relationship you forge. I want to publicly thank David Atlas. The experience, the brains and the integrity, Thanks for holding the candle high. You are a gift to our profession. And Kudos to Whiteflash, and all the caring and professional comments from all sides who got involved.

A special sincere, wish for You and Adam, Happy, Healthy 2007,

Respectfully,

David Wolf
David,

Adam and I thank you for your help and kind wishes. Happy New Year to you too!
 
Harriet,

Just curious, since you got to see this stone in person, is it beautiful, sparkly and did it face up white?
 
Too distressed to look objectively.
 
Oye Vey!
 
Date: 12/29/2006 5:43:50 PM
Author: kenny
Oye Vey!
Isn''t that a little like the pot calling the kettle black???? Or however that saying goes...
 
I didn't use PS to try to get more money back from a vendor.
In fact, I'm keeping my stone without even asking for any price adjustment whatsoever.

I got scolded pretty badly here.

Tough crowd.
 
Date: 12/29/2006 5:53:54 PM
Author: kenny
I didn''t use PS to try to get more money back from a vendor.
In fact, I''m keeping my stone without even asking for any price adjustment whatsoever.

I got scolded pretty badly here.

Tough crowd.

You started a thread on PS relating your quandry and you entertained the idea of seeking a price difference -- how is that any different than what Harriet is doing? She is in a quandry and what she ends up doing is still at question.

Why is the decision YOU made the only right one?

 
Kenny, your situation did not go this far because you did not get your stone regraded to see if the clarity would change. There are also not other asschers around that easily replace to the one you have. The price difference for Harriet is probably $7000 or more between the I and a J. I can see why she''d want to get a solid I if she is paying $48,000. Or if she is comfortable with a J color, she can get another H&A stone for several thousand dollars less than this one. I don''t see how anyone can blame Harriet for anything.
 
Date: 12/29/2006 5:53:54 PM
Author: kenny
I didn''t use PS to try to get more money back from a vendor.
In fact, I''m keeping my stone without even asking for any price adjustment whatsoever.

I got scolded pretty badly here.

Tough crowd.
it is a tough crowd here lol If I was the vendor you got that stone from I''d probably refund your money and charge someone else more for it ;) lol
 
Not asking for money was right for me.
I felt it in my gut.

Harriet is not me.
She is pursuing what she feels is right for her.

But you have to admit that saying, "Too distressed to look objectively." warrants and Oye Vey considering the context.
(Kenny later edit by adding the work objectively for quote accuracy)


Edited once again for Cehrabehra: I removed the words: I am
 
Date: 12/29/2006 6:14:48 PM
Author: kenny

But you have to admit that saying, 'I'm too distress to even look at the stone' warrants and Oye Vey considering the context.
haha yeah...that was quite the dramatic saying.

harriet, put plain and simply...if you are too distressed to even look at the stone, just return it. your distress will not go away if it's $1k or $3k cheaper...well will it?

that lovely stone should never have an owner that is 'too distressed' to contemplate it's beauty.
20.gif
 
diamondseeker2006 wrote:
"The price difference for Harriet is probably $7000 or more between the I and a J."

My actual vs. Lab report discrepency was probably only about $1000.
But, the principle is the same.

Vendors base their price on the lab report, not fancy microscope pics, not appraiser opinions and not the "but do you love the stone?" approach.
After the sale if the stone doesn't match report the price should be fixed.
(Plus I think actual color grade can be legally one grade off the lab report - no pro has disputed this yet.)

I blew off $1000.
I'm not sure I'd blow off $7000.
But I wouldn't turn into a drama queen here to up my refund.
I believe it is in poor taste (or worse).
I would have the class to handle the matter in private if I was going after the bucks.

I handled mine in public to get perspective, and I took the PS community's advice: Keep that gorgeous stone and shut up.
I am grateful for all the opinions you gave me.
It helped me see the light.

Harriet might say that I blew a change for some $$$$, but so be it.
 
Date: 12/29/2006 5:41:12 PM
Author: Harriet
Too distressed to look objectively.
That I was "too distressed to look objectively" is a different proposition from "too distressed to look."
 
Thanks Harriet.

I edited my quote.

Accuracy is important, isn''t it?
 
I have no idea why I feel compelled to defend Harriet, but she did not say she couldn''t look at the stone...she said she couldn''t look objectively. She was excited about getting an engagement ring...a 3 carat enagagement ring to be exact (and that would be pretty exciting to me, too!). It is not hard for me to see that she would be very disappointed to learn that what she thought was her dream diamond turned out to not appraise with the stats on the cert. And now the situation is complicated and will not be as pleasurable as it would have been otherwise. Few people drop $48,000 on an e-ring. I can see why she is upset.
 
Okay, Harriet, you defended yourself while I was slowly typing my defense of you!
2.gif


But I want to say that WF is a great company and I have every confidence that they will do whatever they can to resolve this in a manner that will ultimately make Harriet and her fiance happy...whether it involves this stone or a new one.
 
Date: 12/29/2006 6:34:28 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I have no idea why I feel compelled to defend Harriet, but she did not say she couldn''t look at the stone...she said she couldn''t look objectively. She was excited about getting an engagement ring...a 3 carat enagagement ring to be exact (and that would be pretty exciting to me, too!). It is not hard for me to see that she would be very disappointed to learn that what she thought was her dream diamond turned out to not appraise with the stats on the cert. And now the situation is complicated and will not be as pleasurable as it would have been otherwise. Few people drop $48,000 on an e-ring. I can see why she is upset.
Thanks!
 
Date: 12/29/2006 6:30:04 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 12/29/2006 5:41:12 PM
Author: Harriet
Too distressed to look objectively.
That I was ''too distressed to look objectively'' is a different proposition from ''too distressed to look.''

Harriet,

I suggest you depart from the PS forum, go away for the weekend and have a blast on New Year''s Eve. Do whatever it takes to distract you from this stone. There is no need to decide today, as it will still be available next week.
Then on Tuesday, rested and relaxed, decide what you want to do.

Happy New Year!

Paul
 
Date: 12/29/2006 6:30:04 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 12/29/2006 5:41:12 PM
Author: Harriet
Too distressed to look objectively.
That I was ''too distressed to look objectively'' is a different proposition from ''too distressed to look.''
take your time and relax a little.. this has been hard on you :{
 
Date: 12/29/2006 6:39:54 PM
Author: calcaver

Date: 12/29/2006 6:30:04 PM
Author: Harriet


Date: 12/29/2006 5:41:12 PM
Author: Harriet
Too distressed to look objectively.
That I was ''too distressed to look objectively'' is a different proposition from ''too distressed to look.''

Harriet,

I suggest you depart from the PS forum, go away for the weekend and have a blast on New Year''s Eve. Do whatever it takes to distract you from this stone. There is no need to decide today, as it will still be available next week.
Then on Tuesday, rested and relaxed, decide what you want to do.

Happy New Year!

Paul
And the same to you! Don''t worry -- I''m no longer distressed.
 
When it comes to pet rocks its hard to be all business all the time so feelings run deep and a little raw.
add in large amounts of money and it gets worse.
do what is best for you and get a stone you love :}
even if i has a birthmark or 2.
 
Date: 12/29/2006 6:14:48 PM
Author: kenny
Not asking for money was right for me.
I felt it in my gut.

Harriet is not me.
She is pursuing what she feels is right for her.

But you have to admit that saying, ''I''m too distressed to look objectively'' warrants and Oye Vey considering the context.
(Kenny later edit by adding the work objectively for quote accuracy)
she didn''t say "I am"... she just said "too distressed" and since she hasn''t seen the stone since the fateful day and she didn''t look at it prior to finding out the "K" info - she isn''t saying she is too distressed NOW to look objectively. I wish she''d looked at the stone before she was given info on it. Eyes should have been first - then numbers. If you have the opportunity for that, that is.
 
The appraiser told me of the colour the moment I walked in the door, before I even had the chance to look at it.
 
Cehrabehra I removed the words, "I am"

A thousand apologies.
 
Date: 12/29/2006 6:24:04 PM
Author: kenny
diamondseeker2006 wrote:
''The price difference for Harriet is probably $7000 or more between the I and a J.''

My actual vs. Lab report discrepency was probably only about $1000.
But, the principle is the same.

Vendors base their price on the lab report, not fancy microscope pics, not appraiser opinions and not the ''but do you love the stone?'' approach.
After the sale if the stone doesn''t match report the price should be fixed.
(Plus I think actual color grade can be legally one grade off the lab report - no pro has disputed this yet.)

I blew off $1000.
I''m not sure I''d blow off $7000.
But I wouldn''t turn into a drama queen here to up my refund.
I believe it is in poor taste (or worse).
I would handle the matter in private.

I handled mine in public to get perspective, and I took your advice: Keep the gorgeous stone and shut up.
I am grateful for all the opinions you gave me.
It helped me see the light.

Harriet might say I''m nuts but so be it.
no offence kenny - really and truly - but the big diff I see between you and harriet is that she is rather quiet. In fact I think you were far more dramatic lol! But that is OKAY. Who cares?! There''s a lot at stake here! But there''s a lot of hoohaa over what she said and she did not say she can''t be objective - just that she wasn''t when she met with DW because of what he told her *before* she saw the stone. She probably doesn''t know who to trust at this point.
 
double post
 
Drama or no, in the end I let the vendor keep his money.
I think Harriet will be getting a big check in the mail.

She told us right away that she's a lawyer.
She's smarter.
 
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