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Jeweler set the wrong stone—wants me to return ring.

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The original poster has done the ethical thing in my opinion he has contacted the jeweller, now it is a business deal again, I think he is within his rights. Maybe he had other plans for that $1300 which have been disrupted by the jewellers mistake. I think it was unethical for the jeweller to contact him by phone in the first place, two weeks later after the proposal, what if his fiancee had been there at the time?
 
You know, if McDonald''s gives me an extra fry by mistake, then I don''t feel overly compelled to run back there to return it. The item cannot be reused at that point and the dollar loss will not hurt their bottom line. But if I was given a $2600 item by mistake, it is not mine to keep. Yes, it is an inconvenience. But he has the option to return the stone and get the stone he paid for or get a super discount on a stone that is much better than he picked out. I think he should consider himself darn lucky this happened and happily pay the $1300!!! (Yes, I''d be pretty delighted to find out my stone was an F by mistake and I could have it at half price above the amount I paid!!!)

Bottom line, I don''t think the jeweler should profit off the difference above the amount of the first stone. But surely he is not making anything if he is giving a 50% discount on the $2600. I see no reason he should take a loss for an honest mistake.
 
Now that you know the mistake that was made, are you going to tell your fiance? Eventually the truth will come out. I know that I''d be upset because YOU didn''t tell me the truth at the time. I wouldn''t see it as you trying to spare my feelings. I would see it as you lied to me. Under the circumstances, I''d either give the stone back or help you pay for the difference if I diddn''t want to give it back. I wouldn''t want to wear a ring that I felt like was not mine....and I would feel like that until the situation was rectified. You have to live with yourself and your decision.
 
Of coruse there is a big range of different response here because we are all products of our background and life experiences. It is not so much about right or wrong, but more about how you feel about yourself afer all is said and done. A year ago Gap messed up in my mail order and sent me a cashmere sweater (in my size) when I ordered a $10 belt on sale. I could have kept the lovely sweather with no consequences, but I know I will feel guilty everytime I see it - even if no one else knows. The next day I drove to a Gap retail to return it and got a full refund on my belt, no additional benefits. Did I end up losing my time and gas money? yes. But I won a clear conscience.
 
what I think is sort of wierd is...

have you seen the stone you picked out since you realized something was wrong? No? Then how can you decide if you are unhappy with it yet in comparison to the one you''ve had for a few weeks?

Yes, I understand you are frustrated at the possibility of spending more money to purchase the stone you currently have, but who says you need to stay with the F/VS2 stone? Who says you won''t still love the H/SI2 stone? You didn''t originally pick that stone thinking it looks like doggie poo, so why lose all confidence in your original choice?

It seems you didn''t notice a real difference or you might have raised questions yourself. So are you just looking for a way to finagle your way into owning a higher color and clarity stone just for the concept in itself? You couldn''t tell it was "better" or even different until you were told it was... So why does it matter now?

Aussie
 
This is interesting. It shows how complicated life can be. I sense Gutman''s wanting to do right, but also wanting to come out with something for his trouble, which I don''t blame him.

This isn''t the same, but a year ago I built a house. The windows were all in and the builder came to me and said.."I made a mistake. This one window I gave you is 6" smaller than it should be (it was like 6''X6''). He said he''d eat the window, and take it out and reframe and put the one the plans called for if I wanted. I told him that I appreciated his honesty and my wife and I would never have known it wasn''t the right window. I didn''t want to hurt him, but I asked if there was another way I could be compensated other than him losing money and time on rebuilding the window. He offered me an add-on that we had passed on because of expense. It was a $1500 add on. I said ok. It worked out great for both of us, he kept on schedule, we were happy. Later in the building process we realized that they put the wrong siding on. right color, wrong style. Once again, he said...you can have the upgraded siding at no extra charge or he''d rip it alll off, eat it and give us the one we wanted.
We took the free upgrade. To this day, he does me favors and I have a very good raport with him. My wife and I personally got two people to buy homes from him.

I''d like to ad that each of these percentage-wise would be equivalent to Gutman''s $200 knockdown, just to put things in perspective.

Let''s look at some possibilites for Gutman:
1. The stone you have, but you don''t'' have the report with it or a proper invoice. Should it be lost or stolen, you may not be insured for what you actually lost.
2. The stone you have could be a poorer cut than the SI/2, maybe not.

While the road you are taking in your life with your fiancee isn''t the one you chose, it could be one filled with consequences that are also unanticipated. My wife and i have been married for 33 years. I can answer for her without asking her as now we know how each other thinks. She''d say she just wants what is fair without any hassles down the road.

I might also suggest that you apply the Rotary "Four Way Test" to your situation. Of any situation if you can answer yes to these four questions than go ahead and do it. You can''t go wrong if you follow it.

1. Is it the truth?
2. Is it fair to all concerned?
3. Will it build goodwill and better friendships?
4. Will it benefit all concerned?



Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

P.S. One time I was buying a "business" of about 30 one carat diamonds. I was sweating bullets trying to figure if it was a good deal or not. At the time it was a lot of money for me. The old guy came over to me and asked me a question I''ll ask all of you...."so....this is not such an easy business we''re in is it?"
 
I''m just looking for a way to afford the ring that my fiance is wearing right now.

I will not "Indian Give" with her engagment ring. (BTW, I hate that term, but i couldnt think of a better one)

Many have asked, what would i do if they had put a lesser stone in the ring. And While I cannot say with certainty, because I''m nt in the situation, but I would have probably just asked to be refunded the difference.
 
I am a woman of few words. Take the deal. Take it now. They should NOT have to just eat the $2500 loss. They just don't. They contracted with you to sell you a particular stone. Just b/c you got another does not make you legally entitled to it. That said, they are being MOREMOREMORE than fair. I don't see what there is to think about (even if that is a stretch in terms of budget, it is a quality stone that she will love forever) ... I would maybe take it one step further and ask if they'd accept payments or if they can give you 100% financing which I generally wouldn't do...but under the circumstances I'd do it. Best of luck. Ok, that wasn't a few words. Sorry.
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I don''t know what I can say that hasn''t already been said, but my initial reactions are:

1) The jewelry store is in the wrong. Not for making the mistake, but for how they handled it. They should have been honest about the cost difference in the first place, more respectful of the emotional toll, and more reasonable in their compensation... $200 is not even relevant considering the extent of this inconvenience. They should have handled it exactly how Neil suggested... graciously.

2) The "bait and switch" feeling you have makes sense to me. $1300 bucks may be a great deal for that kind of upgrade, but it''s still $1300 you didn''t have to spend in the first place. And nothing''s a great deal if you can''t afford it.

3) Your fiance may have an opinion on how to handle this. It sucks to have to bring it up... but I''m a firm believer in openness and honesty. If you are torn between what to do, ask her.
 
Well said- nothing is a great deal if you can''t afford it. So true....The situation does suck...but I''d probably just try to afford it if I could and move on and not spoil this happy time!
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Man oh man what a mess.

Another thing to consider (unless it''s already been brought up and I missed it) is that the diamond you originally chose, while nice, may not look so good to your fiance since she''s been enjoying and wearing the more expensive stone for a while. I presume you never looked at the F VS-2 when you were originally shopping because of its price.

I absolutely can relate to your feeling "baited and switched", even though it was unintentional. I''d be mad.

If you do decide to take the $1300 deal they offered, I''d at least demand the most favorable terms for paying it off.

You have my sympathy. The retailer doesn''t.

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Date: 9/26/2006 9:31:45 PM
Author: moremoremore
Well said- nothing is a great deal if you can''t afford it. So true....The situation does suck...but I''d probably just try to afford it if I could and move on and not spoil this happy time!
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Yeah, but I am kinda sensitive.....I would feel strange/guilty when I found out (and she will)...If I were the girl, I would rather know up front.....a great opportunity to work things through together??
 
This is what I would do. I would return the ring, get all of my money back and buy a stone online and get a better deal. AND I would expect *something* for the trouble, some token of apology TO the woman I asked.
 
Date: 9/26/2006 6:17:46 PM
Author: gutman925
An Update. An answer to some questions. And some vital statistics.

First off, it was the ring that I selected based upon what I liked. the diamond itself was based upon budget (however, I did let the store ''talk me into'' spending slightly above my budget). So from my POV, the process of choosing that specific diamond doesnt hold any sentimental value to me. Knowing my fiance, she''s not the type to get sentimental over that kind of thing. That said, to tell her I need to replace it would be an emotional Pimp-slap to the back of the head.

Next up, I spoke again with the jewler. He called me back, and confirmed an error had been made; the diamond that has been set in the ring valued at approximatly $2,500 more than the one i selected. He said that he spoke with the store owner and that he had been autherized to provide me with a $200 discount for the “discomfort” of having to bring in the ring replace it with a lesser stone.

Perhaps I''m getting petty, but I spent thousands of dollars with them. $200 is chump change, and I''m not looking to return the ring. I politly informed him that, to me, there is a lot of sentimental value to this ring. It''s only 2 weeks old and it represents a moment in time, and that replacing it would dull the act of engagement. He said he would get back to me.

About an hour later he called back to offered to split the difference and I would pay $1,300 in order to keep the ring intact. I told him that i needed to give this some thought, and i would get back to him.

For those interested, here are the vital statistics.

the stone i selected: 1.03 carat, H color, Si2 clarity
the stone I recieved: 1.03 carat, F Color, Vs2 clarity
(an as far as I know, the stone that is presently in the ring does not belong to anyone other than the jewelery store)

As all have said, this is an emotional, financial and moral deciscion. On the one hand, I''m not trying to screw anyone. However, I outright refuse to downgrade her ring. I may pay the difference, but I feel as though I''ve been backed into a corner, being forced to pony up cash. While I believe thier mistake was an honest one, I also feel that I''ve been Bait-and-switched. even if it is not intentional.

I need to think about it.
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You said the act of purchasing the stone was not an emotional one... have you looked online to see how much better quality you could get for the same $$? Because at this point I''d tell those people to stuff it, take 100% of my money elsewhere and spend that money buying something with the focus on *cut* here. They don''t deserve your business. I do believe it is wrong to keep the stone but I think they should just stuff it and you could take your business elsewhere.

I wouldn''t just swap out the stone, that''s gonna feeel hookey to your fiance. If you tell her you''re going to get the $$ back and you can buy her a BETTER stone, that''ll be better lol You will never lose the moment, but I''d back away from anything that came from *there* and take a mulligan.
 
Date: 9/26/2006 7:27:22 PM
Author: gutman925
Anthony:
What you failed to quote is that I have also been willing to pay the diffenence all along. but at this point, you are absolutly right. While I dont agree with the terminology, I AM trying to ''exploit'' ,as you say, what I can get. I may not be looking for martyrdom, but I feel as though I in a precarious situation.

At the time, I would have been 100% content with the ring I had laid out. Now, I am not content to go backwards.

If I was left with NO other option than to pay the $2,500 difference, I would/ or will—reluctantly. But lets be hones, whose going to loose more sleep over being out couple thousand dollars... Me, or a major diamond retailor?

That said, I appreciate your opinion. That''s the reason why I posted this on here.

I find it interesting that the Vendors on this site and the consumers on this site seem to have varying opinions.
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don''t go backwards, step up yet again and dump them!!! lol oh they make me so mad I don''t think they should have a penny of your money... how''s the cut on the diamond anyway?
 

I don''t think Gutman''s the bad guy here. I think the jeweler has missed the boat entirely.


Gutman bought a ring and proposed with it. The store set the wrong stone in it (and isn''t Vatche supposed to set the diamond, maybe I''m wrong???), not by any fault of his. Now, TWO WEEKS after he picked up the ring, the jeweler calls telling him this. He is in a very tight spot, which the jeweler put him in. I understand mistakes happen because I make them myself. BUT, I would never compound my mistake by expecting a customer to accept a rediculous offer, then try to use a "Let''s Make a Deal" approach when he didn''t take it.


The first offer is rediculous because the head in this ring is integral, not simply a peg head that can be replaced easily. If the prongs are compromised, the whole ring needs to be replaced, which is not what they offered to do. $200 off??? COME ON!!! You think HE''s trying to take advantage??? The other offer is reasonable, but I wouldn''t accept it. I think the transaction, at this point, is very sour. I would return the ring and start over with a more trustworthy jeweler. JMO, other''s opinions probably differ.

 
I definitely agree with Cehra.....LOL, the H could be better cut and look better....!!!
Just because the F is "worth more" because of color and clarity, doesn''t mean it is the best available...
I also said to just take it back, get your money, and start over........I love that setting, but would definitely not want it altered at this point!!!
But as Cehra said, they need to give SOME compensation....
 
Date: 9/26/2006 7:35:20 PM
Author: kenny
Every time you look at that diamond you will know it was partially stolen.
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That is OUTRAGEOUS! If he agrees to purchase the stone at a *discount*, splitting the difference of the amount of the mistake with A WILLING JEWELER ... how is that "stealing"?

I hope you stop attacking this man and his character immediately!
 
Date: 9/26/2006 8:01:12 PM
Author: kenny
I work for a huge corporation.
We get ethics training twice a year.

I have very strong feelings about ethics.

I''m not trying to push anyone around.
It''s just one person''s opinion.
But I will express it.

Morals are what you do when others can see.
Ethics are what you do when nobody can see.
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Some of the same huge corporations that have mandatory ethics training also have CEOs who make millions of dollars a year, enormous bonuses, and innumerable perks. At the same time, the company is not making money so they have to lay off large numbers of loyal employees whose very livelihoods depend on their having solid employment. Those jobs are outsourced to countries where working conditions are not regulated and wages are a tiny fraction of US wages PLUS they get out of paying a certain percentage of taxes. Some of those jobs involve security sensitive technology in countries (or near areas) that don''t necessarily love America(ns). Please don''t bring up corporations and ethics in the same sentence. It''s a total oxymoran. And way too complicated for me to debate, LOL!
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Date: 9/26/2006 8:16:45 PM
Author: kenny
Kenny first wrote:
quote
I work for a huge corporation.
We get ethics training twice a year.

I have very strong feelings about ethics.

I'm not trying to push anyone around.
It's just one person's opinion.
But I will express it.
end quote

then HLMR wrote:
quote
As do I, but things are rarely black and white. Why haven't you called the vedor's ethics into question? They were not treating the client with the respect, honestly and forthrightness that he deserved. Ethics work both ways!
end quote

Vendor mistakes I see:
1. They set the wrong stone.
2. The saleswoman did not contact her manager immediately.
3. She didn't answer customers questions to his satisfaction. I think this was more bad manners than a mistake.

None of these are ethics violations.
Bad business, bad manners perhaps but not bad ethics.

I think the vendor should have said, 'Sir since it was our mistake keep the better stone, on us. Shall we mail you the GIA report?'
That would be good business, but I can't find fault in the jeweler's ethics.
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Kenny the ethics violations are simple. They were not up front about the details surrounding the two stones, and they made it the client's problem, instead of taking ownership of their mistake. Point two could be taken as bad manners and bad business but point one = poor ethics. They were the ones trying to be "slick" by saying you have the wrong stone, bring it back so they could subsequently quietly switch the stones with no pain to themselves (or anyone "seeing" their error), but plenty to the client and his FI!

I find it very interesting how willing you are to give the vendor the full benefit of the doubt, but will happily nail this guy to the wall.

ETA: One more point that needs to be made is that the saleswoman obviously did not set the stone, so the manager I'm quite sure, was well aware of the situation, as were the people that realized that it was the wrong stone in the client's setting.
 
Date: 9/26/2006 8:01:12 PM
Author: kenny
I work for a huge corporation.
We get ethics training twice a year.

I have very strong feelings about ethics.

I''m not trying to push anyone around.
It''s just one person''s opinion.
But I will express it.

Morals are what you do when others can see.
Ethics are what you do when nobody can see.
Click to expand...
I read this and called my husband over to get his opinion... he also works for a large corporation and deals in ethical issues... I don''t know that I''d define the difference between ethics and morals quite that way, but it''s convenient.

My husband first said they should return the ring... then he said of course they have the option not to. What it boiled down to for him was, "Is getting that extra bit of ring worth someone losing their job over?" For him the answer is no. A person''s income is fairly sacred to him. It''s quite easy to want to sacrifice someone in this situation and NOT have it be the bride and that''s understandable. The clerk should have told the mgr and the mgr should have comped the difference. Two wrongs don''t make it right to keep it though... I still feel like he should get a refund and purchase a better stone elsewhere for a better price.
 
Date: 9/26/2006 9:02:52 PM
Author: gutman925
I''m just looking for a way to afford the ring that my fiance is wearing right now.

I will not ''Indian Give'' with her engagment ring. (BTW, I hate that term, but i couldnt think of a better one)

Many have asked, what would i do if they had put a lesser stone in the ring. And While I cannot say with certainty, because I''m nt in the situation, but I would have probably just asked to be refunded the difference.
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I think then that your only choice is to pay the $1300. I''d make them finance it free for a year, though. (Favorable terms as someone else posted.)

I can understand your not wanting your fiance to have any knowledge of this, as well. Sometimes complete honesty is not the best policy. It''s a gift and if there is any difficulty with it, telling her will only spoil it. At least for some people. You know best your situation and I believe you will do what you think is truly best.
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I have not read every post here - But:
Compare the 2 stones side by side if this is an option?

It may be you prefer the less expensive stone.
 
I agree that since it is arguably a better stone, your fiancee benefits. IF you are keeping it and working something out with the the jeweler and you are NOT dismantling her ring, I do not see the need to discuss it NOW. Maybe later, many years later...over a nice bottle of wine. I would make the jeweler let you make payments for one year, interest free. I just do not see saying to you fiancee, "Hey, I picked a nice stone but not as nice as this and a funny thing happened..." There is no point in going down that path. At least to me. If I got a nicer stone in the bargain and did not have to give up the ring etc, I would be pleased.
 
Cehra had the best idea in this thread.
Return the stone, take the money and buy a stone here from a PS vendor.

You'll get superb cut and a nicer stone for less.

Great idea.
 
Date: 9/26/2006 10:28:36 PM
Author: diamondfan
I agree that since it is arguably a better stone, your fiancee benefits. IF you are keeping it and working something out with the the jeweler and you are NOT dismantling her ring, I do not see the need to discuss it NOW. Maybe later, many years later...over a nice bottle of wine. I would make the jeweler let you make payments for one year, interest free. I just do not see saying to you fiancee, ''Hey, I picked a nice stone but not as nice as this and a funny thing happened...'' There is no point in going down that path. At least to me. If I got a nicer stone in the bargain and did not have to give up the ring etc, I would be pleased.
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I agree 100%. Maybe the story, if it ends happily, will be a funny one years from now ... but I wouldn''t "rain on her engagement parade" with needless worry & too much information.

As to the poster who earlier mentioned if she found out her fiance was "keeping this info from her, she''d wonder what ELSE he was hiding"
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... to each his own, but I would be SO FAR from feeling that way! I''d absolutely ADORE than my sweet fiance was trying to protect me, my feelings, and my "fresh engagement buzz" -- which, yes Sentimental Purists, does involve a little bling buzz too.
 
I agree that I'd probably take the deal. it's fair IMO for an honest though inconvenient mistake. I would make them accept whatever payment option works for you, like whoever said interest free payments for the next 12 months or whatever. She gets to keep the ring and gets an upgrade for a good price, even though she doesn't know it
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Guess this begs the queation "If a tree falls in the forrest and no one heard it did it still make a sound?" Does it count as an upgrade if she did not know what was being upgraded?! Just trying to find some humor here...seriously, I cannot see how or why she would be disappointed when she is likely getting a better stone in the end. Yes, aggravation and annoyance for Gutman, but, ultimately, if he gets the nicer stone and gets to make payments that are comfortable on the wallet, and the stone was not earmarked for anyone else''s ring, I just see an accident turning into something nice...
 
I have not read the entire thread so some of this may not even apply anymore... It seems to me that if the salesperson was being vague, he probably got a better stone and they want it back. I would imagine that if they had given him a lesser stone or a CZ, they would have been upfront and to point IMO. I think he should go straight to the manager/owner and not deal with the salesperson...if she was vague during that call and not giving satisfactory answers, I wouldn''t trust her in the future.

If I was the girl and my fiance kept something like this from me, but I found out later, there would be some serious hell to pay! I think not telling her is a wrong decision....if that''s what the OP decides to do. I also would want to return the ring even if I was attached to it because I personally couldn''t keep a stone in this situation, because I would think about it every time I looked at it (which would be often
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).

If you go back to the store, I think it would be fair for them to replace the entire setting for free so that you don''t get a "worked on" setting...you paid for a brand new one where the only activity was the placement of the first stone...if that''s what your fiance wants. She may want to keep the original setting though.

Personally, I couldn''t keep the stone in good conscious without some sort of agreement with the jeweler.
 
Date: 9/26/2006 11:25:04 PM
Author: diamondfan
Guess this begs the queation ''If a tree falls in the forrest and no one heard it did it still make a sound?'' Does it count as an upgrade if she did not know what was being upgraded?! Just trying to find some humor here...seriously, I cannot see how or why she would be disappointed when she is likely getting a better stone in the end. Yes, aggravation and annoyance for Gutman, but, ultimately, if he gets the nicer stone and gets to make payments that are comfortable on the wallet, and the stone was not earmarked for anyone else''s ring, I just see an accident turning into something nice...
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We needed some humor DF, well said!!! And I agree if they can make the payment terms that are comfortable for him, it''s all good. At least one can hope!!! And for the record, I never once thought gutman was trying to cheat this jeweler, or be slick as someone put it. Hey he was on the recieiving end of a poorly handled situation and handled it in a repsectable manor. For that I give him kudos.
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