Jeweler set the wrong stone—wants me to return ring.

[kenny]

If they are loosing $1300 it could not be bait and switch.

 

[Beacon]

Gutman, no way accept the $200. Good deal they came back with a different offer.

I ran your specs thru some data bases and it looks like they are giving you the straight story about the difference in price. My estimates were 2300-2600 difference at retail.

Yes, I can see where you feel like they almost force you to pay up and buy this ring. I relate to your feelings of a accidental bait & switch.

He is offering you to split the difference - $1300 - that is not such a bad deal. I think you would be well off with the ring you have - don''t downgrade it. It is a beautiful ring, for sure.

You''ll have to let us know how it all comes out. The salesperson was not honest with you in one way: VS2 isn''t "similar clarity" to SI2. I recall this is what she said to you on the phone.

Good luck to you and your fiance (who certainly has a beautiful ring!).

 

[CaptAubrey]

I find this whole story very curious.

I agree with Garry''s comments early in the thread. I don''t understand what the store thinks they''re doing here. They''re saving $1300 for what? In addition to having lost one future customer (Gutman), consider how many people he''s going to tell this story to over the years--it''s a safe bet that no one who hears it will ever shop there.

For the saleswoman to have contacted Gutman directly about this, while understandable, was a serious breach of protocol. I would not have fired her over setting the wrong stone, unless store procedures for handling stones were not followed (mistakes like this happen). I would fire her for having put the store''s reputation at risk by going directly back to the customer instead of her manager.

 

[kenny]

Question for any vendor who cares to answer.

Now that we have the numbers what would you do. . . for the customer and to the employee?

 

[Beacon]

Given the whole weird thing - I wouldn''t give over any money until I had that stone (the one you have) carefully gone over to make sure it *really is* the F, VS2 they feel they have lost. You never know, it could be in some other ring out there in the world and they just think you have it.

 

[zhuzhu]

I think vendors may hesitate to answer because they might be viewed as "biased". The bottom line is that one in the situation has to do whatever feels right in their heart, because they will be reminded of it for years to come.

 

[Anthony K]

Ok well I have decided to chime in on this topic and I feel that you are being completely uncooperative with the store. I don’t care what the circumstance is with "but they were very hesitant to answer any of my questions specifically. That makes me suspicious that something is defiantly rotten in the state of Denmark" and "I feel they are being sneaky" but that’s just not true. I know that a few of the people on here have it right when they say it is a moral decision, which I feel it wholly is, but in your case you are simply trying to justify being unmoral (whether it is just to convince yourself or us I really don’t care). You very well know you are not being totally unconvinced buy going back there to have their problem corrected and helping them out. No, you would much rather play a martyr and try to see how much free stuff they are willing to give you for your "trouble".

"Perhaps I''m getting petty, but I spent thousands of dollars with them. $200 is chump change, and I''m not looking to return the ring. I politely informed him that, to me, there is a lot of sentimental value to this ring. It''s only 2 weeks old and it represents a moment in time, and that replacing it would dull the act of engagement. He said he would get back to me."
How can you say that there is allot of sentimental value to the ring when but five lines ago you said "the process of choosing that specific diamond doesn’t hold any sentimental value to me. Knowing my fiancé, she''s not the type to get sentimental over that kind of thing. That said, to tell her I need to replace it would be an emotional Pimp-slap to the back of the head." You are absolutely trying to screw them over!

You said so yourself "I outright refuse to downgrade her ring" your the one that bought the downgraded ring to begin with and your whole "I also feel that I''ve been Bait-and-switched. Even if it is not intentional." O come off it, you can not tell me with a straight face that you really believe this, this is merely an opportunity for you to exploit a situation.

If you really believed this, even for one second, to be a moral decision you would have returned the diamond, or paid the full difference for the one you apparently should have bought, but no you were not man enough to handle that responsibility.

That’s it I’m done!

 

[Mara]

as a vendor i probably would have eaten the cost because my mistake was just so darn stupid! how ridiculous is it to be like we set the wrong stone and you've had it for 2 weeks, can we have it back?

is that cost difference $2500 wholesale or their cost or what? because to go from an H SI2 to a F VS2 should be more than $2500 *retail* especially at a B&M which has typically higher markups than internet. so comparing it to internet pricing may not be really valid. but regardless...rather interesting development.

anyway, paying $1300 to get a F VS2 vs an H SI2 and keep that stone in the ring is not that bad of an offer IMO. personally, i think they should have just said hey we made a mistake, we're sorry, please keep the ring and stone and here's the new cert. instead this is a big dramatic thing. but if you truly want to keep the ring as it is with that stone, just pay the difference.

 

[denverappraiser]

I was feeling a fair amount sympathy for the jeweler until that offer came along. I was picturing the compromise would go more like this:

You: You sold me a 1.03 F VS2 for a great deal. Thanks.

Them: We screwed up. We want it back.

You: I hate to give it up but if the stone belongs to someone else, please provide me with a comparable 1.03 F VS2 (or better) and you can return this stone to it’s rightful owner. Otherwise, I’m pretty happy as it stands.

Them: Thank you for your understanding. Here''s a $200 bone in addition to the above because of the inconvenience that we''re causing you.

You: You''re welcome. I’ll see you at Christmas time and for our anniversary. By then I’ll have my Visa card paid off and I’ll need a pair of earrings. Please offer my apologies to that other owner that I’ve tied up their stone for a few weeks. They must be very upset and I’m sure they will be tickled to get their stone back. I’m glad I could help.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[gutman925]

Anthony:
What you failed to quote is that I have also been willing to pay the diffenence all along. but at this point, you are absolutly right. While I dont agree with the terminology, I AM trying to "exploit" ,as you say, what I can get. I may not be looking for martyrdom, but I feel as though I in a precarious situation.

At the time, I would have been 100% content with the ring I had laid out. Now, I am not content to go backwards.

If I was left with NO other option than to pay the $2,500 difference, I would/ or will—reluctantly. But lets be hones, whose going to loose more sleep over being out couple thousand dollars... Me, or a major diamond retailor?

That said, I appreciate your opinion. That's the reason why I posted this on here.

I find it interesting that the Vendors on this site and the consumers on this site seem to have varying opinions.

 

[kenny]

I'm a consumer and I think what you are doing is morally wrong.

It was an honest mistake and you are taking advantage of the jeweler.

EDIT
I have edited out a rude comment that I have appologized for.

 

[pyramid]

I think the sales assistant was taking a very big risk in phoning the original poster without having asked her manager about it. I just assumed it would have been referred to him/her. When I suggested meeting the sales assistant I was thinking in order to not exclude her to see how honest she would be about what had happened. Ofcourse any resolution would have had to have the manager's approval regarding how they would compensate original poster. Was the sales assistant just intending to get them to come in with the ring and give it to the benchperson to change over without anyone else in authority knowing about it

That would really damage the reputation of the store. I wonder if she had admitted her mistake to her boss if original poster would have just got a call to come in and exchange diamond certificates due to their mistake.

 

[bae7]

Wow, this reminds me of ethics class. I suspect, by your writing, that you already know what the right thing to do is. That you went over budget initially and would now be forced to fork over even more, is very aggravating. This has been an interesting thread and I''m glad you are posting updates. As aggravating a situation as this is for you, I don''t think I''d want to burn my bridges. If this is a reputable B&M, your wife may want to do business with them in the future...

 

[Mara]

oh my GOD kenny give it a rest!

seriously...guilt trip much??

it's really not anyone's place here to say he is immoral or STEALING the diamond...the judgement thing is so overplayed in this thread.

bottom line is he called the store back after first spekaing to them, he told them he was happy with the stone as it is, whatever it was, and they are trying to work it out. the store seems to want to negotiate because they know that even though it may have been an honest mistake, it's still a mistake that was theirs. what is so wrong with the two involved parties coming to an agreement that works for them both? 'partially stolen'? jeez. please!

 

[hlmr]

It is an awkward situation for you to be in, and it looks like you are the one stuck with making the decision about which way to go, which is unfortunate. I always try to put myself in the other person''s shoes and make a choice from there.

The vendor made the mistake, then made his/her mistake your problem and that is not fair, but mistakes do happen. Would you bring back the ring if the mistake was made the other way? If you paid for an F, VS stone and you found out they put an H, SI stone instead would you leave that stone on your FI''s finger for sentimental reasons?

It is a shame that this situation was not handled more professionally, but at this point you have a choice to make about whether to spend more money for this stone. What if you agreed to pay an additional $1000 to the vendor to keep this stone? I think the vendor needs to come more than halfway to meet you given the circumstances.

 

[Carlotta]

Right now this seems so complicated.....I can understand both sides...I certainly wouldn''t want to be forced to pay a lot more for the stone....But the difference if so great that I wouldn''t feel right about just keeping it, either.
I also wouldn''t want to have that setting "worked on" in any way...I would not want to have a brand new (beautiful, BTW) setting reused after 2 weeks.....
I guess I might just return the whole thing and start over somewhere else!!!

 

[kenny]

It was an honest mistake.
He's taking advantage.

EDIT - I have edited out a rude comment that I have appologized for.

 

[pyramid]

I for one do not think that $200 was enough for what they were asking him to do. I know it would be morally right to go back about it but for an engagement ring after a proposal I would feel slighted at being offered $200. If it had been a necklace I bought with a 1/4 carat diamond in it and this had happened $200 would have seemed fair.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 9/26/2006 7:42:24 PM
Author: kenny
It was an honest mistake.
He's taking advantage.

He didn't commit at $200.
Then he didn't commit at $1300.
Slick guy.

The vendor was not forthright and honest with the client at all! When you make a mistake you own up to it, open the lines of communication and keep things above board.............especially in business!

 

[Carlotta]

I didn''t go back and re-read everything, but did they ever disclose exactly what happened and how???? I''m sure the sales associate didn''t set the stone...(could have put the wrong stone with the setting to BE set)....Around these parts, even at the big places, there are only certain people who have final access to the actual stones at the end of the day....
I''m sure these people wil be reviewing their practices!!!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 9/26/2006 7:39:56 PM
Author: Mara
oh my GOD kenny give it a rest!

seriously...guilt trip much??

it''s really not anyone''s place here to say he is immoral or STEALING the diamond...the judgement thing is so overplayed in this thread.

bottom line is he called the store back after first spekaing to them, he told them he was happy with the stone as it is, whatever it was, and they are trying to work it out. the store seems to want to negotiate because they know that even though it may have been an honest mistake, it''s still a mistake that was theirs. what is so wrong with the two involved parties coming to an agreement that works for them both? ''partially stolen''? jeez. please!

My thoughts exactly.

 

[kenny]

I work for a huge corporation.
We get ethics training twice a year.

I have very strong feelings about ethics.

I'm not trying to push anyone around.
It's just one person's opinion.
But I will express it.

Morals are what you do when others can see.
Ethics are what you do when nobody can see.

 

[pyramid]

Remember the stone is set in the ring. What if a contractor installed a more expensive fire in a newbuild house, would you not expect the owner of the new house to either come to an agreement with the contractor upon how much to pay or for the contractor to let them have the fire for free. You could hardly say the owner of the new house had stolen a fire, could you?

 

[diamondfan]

He did not steal anything. Also, though the stone in the ring is clearly a better stone in clarity and color, he was happy to have the other. Even in splitting the difference, the store is still making money since RETAIL on the difference is still a huge profit. Even just getting an additional 1300.00 from him puts more money in their pocket, money he did not plan to spend. Jewelry stores have 50% off sales, do you think they then make no profit? HE is still having to come up with more money, for something though an accident, was not his design in the situation.

 

[kenny]

If the jeweler called and said, "Keep the ring, it's on us" I would have not problem with this.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 9/26/2006 8:01:12 PM
Author: kenny
I work for a huge corporation.
We get ethics training twice a year.

I have very strong feelings about ethics.

I''m not trying to push anyone around.
It''s just one person''s opinion.
But I will express it.

As do I, but things are rarely black and white. Why haven''t you called the vedor''s ethics into question? They were not treating the client with the respect, honestly and forthrightness that he deserved. Ethics work both ways!

 

[pyramid]

Also we read these forums most days and are used with setting styles, loose diamonds etc. but I would guess most women getting a ring would automatically think their ring would be ruined if the stone has to be taken out of it, even if they are not sentimental it is still a heartbreak for them.

 

[pyramid]

Date: 9/26/2006 7:35:20 PM
Author: kenny
I'm a consumer and I think what you are doing is morally wrong.

It was an honest mistake and you are taking advantage of the jeweler.

Every time you look at that diamond you will know it was partially stolen.

How will your fiancee's feelings about the diamond change when she learns you didn't pay for it?

Do you feel by coming to a mutual agreement with the owner to try to get even more money off the price that this would make the diamond partially stolen? I think the original poster is just looking out for himself, many new buyers try to bargain down their jewellers to see how low they will go in order to get a bigger discount. After all this diamond is above his budget twice over, you could say, because the one he bought was already over his budget. Yes he may be slick, but he is clever and not stupid.

 

[kenny]

Kenny first wrote:
quote
I work for a huge corporation.
We get ethics training twice a year.

I have very strong feelings about ethics.

I'm not trying to push anyone around.
It's just one person's opinion.
But I will express it.
end quote

then HLMR wrote:
quote
As do I, but things are rarely black and white. Why haven't you called the vedor's ethics into question? They were not treating the client with the respect, honestly and forthrightness that he deserved. Ethics work both ways!
end quote

Vendor mistakes I see:
1. They set the wrong stone.
2. The saleswoman did not contact her manager immediately.
3. She didn't answer customers questions to his satisfaction. I think this was more bad manners than a mistake.

None of these are ethics violations.
Bad business, bad manners perhaps but not bad ethics.

I think the vendor should have said, "Sir since it was our mistake keep the better stone, on us. Shall we mail you the GIA report?"
That would be good business, but I can't find fault in the jeweler's ethics.

 

[kenny]

EDIT
I edited out a rude comment for which I have appologized.