Jeweler set the wrong stone—wants me to return ring.

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

And might I just ad here - what a wonderful community we have here.

There have been a lot of people giving kind and thoughtful advice - some in slight conflict - but all valid from those who gave it.

(I am with you Wink - besides - you presumably choose a diamond that looked good - if it was G and the other one was H or F - so what?
And I am sure you will be able to have a 2nd go at picking, at a very resonable trade up deal - if you want.

You could even ask the store to allow you to bring your sweet heart in and romance the whole new deal!!!

 

[denverappraiser]

The jeweler made an error. The only reason that this is even a discussion is the possibility that you can benefit by it. If the error had been to your detriment, for example a serious materials or craftsmanship defect, there would be no issue at all about returning the rind and demanding that it be repaired or replaced. Making such errors may be justification to avoid future business with the jeweler or even to demand a refund and shop elsewhere but it would make no sense to keep it because that’s the way it was when you gave it to her. A sniveling apology from the jeweler is certainly called for but you have no morally sound basis for keeping the ring. I’m not even convinced your legal position is all that good.

I agree with Garry that there is almost certainly more to this story and that’s the reason for being evasive on the phone about the details. I think the most likely scenario is that the stone belongs to someone else, that it got set in your ring by mistake and that this owner is, quite reasonably, mad as hell over it. It makes no sense for the jeweler to be doing this if it were simply a matter of giving you a free ‘upgrade’. Depending on the rest of the story, your situation may be one ‘receiving stolen property’ or, since you now know at least a portion of the situation, ‘accessory after the fact’.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[reader]

Well, the whole of marriage is a test of honesty, and this is your first crisis as a couple. Be straight with her and go together to get the stone swapped. Then do something together to make a happier memory of the day. Perhaps, you can arrange with the jeweler to reset while you wait, and then re-propose with some roses, or a carriage ride to a show or dinner.

 

[Ellen]

Whatever you do, please let us know, I imagine a lot of us would like to hear how it ends.



Patsmom, good for you. I would have done the same thing, even now, and I'm far from 20 something.

 

[Eva17]

You are about to embark down the the road of marriage. One that is filled with lots and lots of bumps.

This is a great challenge for the two of you to fix together.

Your fiance is a grown up, so deal with it together as two grown ups. You would not want bad karma to start with the ring, when you

will need all the good karma that it will take to make it another 40 years together.

Keep it straight and honest. Do the right thing, find out what went wrong and let''s see how we can fix this.


As employers, spouses, parents, my husband and I always say, "mistakes happen, the important thing is how you fix them!!!"

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 9/26/2006 2:17:37 AM
Author: kenny
Yes, don''t lie to your fiancee to get the ring away from her.

I''m not suggesting he "lie" as in being deceitful. I''m suggesting that he keep his fiance out of it until and unless it becomes necessary.

It is a very sentimental gift. If he were to ask for it back to get an appraisal and handle the conflict on his own, he has spared her a lot of grief. He obviously does not want to upset her, so this was my suggestion. Sometimes, discretion IS the better part of valor.

 

[fire&ice]

Interesting.

I would not employe the aid of an independent appraiser. It''s just costing YOU money & adding another stew to the brew.

It''s a bit odd or off that the jeweler would worry about you having a ring of like carat weight & clarity w/ (assuming) color being better. I would never worry a client about that. It''s a mistake & up to the jeweler to eat the cost - unless the stone wasn''t their''s to begin with.

My only course of action would be to make an appointment with the manager/owner and find out exactly what happened. What do you have? What should you have? I wouldn''t even bring the ring to the meeting.

Good luck. My gut is telling me that the sales person made a mistake and is trying to rectify the situation without telling anyone in management.

 

[asscherisme]

If I were your fiancee and you told me what was going on and needed the ring back to get the correct diamond, I would only RESPECT you for being honest and doing the right thing.


I don''t think there is any choice but to get the stone you paid for. I would bring the ring back, get your stone in it, and then get it appraised asap to make sure that the new stone is in fact the stone you paid for and your cert matches it.

I teach my children to go through life treated people how they want to be treated. The jewler made a mistake. The jeweler is human. Imagine being on the other end and being the person who got the lesser diamond. Perhaps that is even you.

Gambling and hoping the diamond is better? That does not even make sense.

Once a bank teller gave me $80 too much in my withdraw. I did not notice it. I just stuck the money in my wallet and went home. An hour later I got a call on my cell phone. She had pulled my number off my account and called me from her cell phone and said she stepped out of the bank to call. She explained she gave me too much and that anything over $20 goes on her record and she could lose her job if it happened 2x in a month. I drove back to the bank and gave her the money back so her drawer was not short. Thinking about it now, I bet she could have just debeted my account but there would have been a record of that. I could have kept the $80 but it felt so much better to return it and do the right thing.

LIke I said before, if I were your fiancee, I would only respect that you are being honest.

 

[kenny]

Lumpkin, about "lying" to her to get the ring:

I understand the intent is not to lie in a harmful deceitful way and the intention of protecting her feelings seem admirable.
But what if you tell her you need to "borrow it for insurance appraisal" then learn whatever you learn from the appraiser, work out something with the jeweler and then the ring has to be returned to resolve this?

Then you'll have to make up something else to explain why she is without her ring for days or weeks.

Sure you are trying to protect her and preventing getting her upset unnecessarily.
But it could become even more upsetting to her if she learns the whole truth later.
I think in a marriage you just level with each other and deal with it.
It is not like he did anything wrong or let her down.
It just seems to me that honestly is the best policy.

Larissa, sorry I had not considered the possibility of keeping the stone.
Sure, if all parties agree then she keeps the stone and they work out the money aspect.
I see no problem with that, unless it is a diamond that was already promised to another bride.
If both women want it you have a real mess.
Perhaps a mudfight in bridal gowns caught on video and posted here?

Sorry, I get silly.

Still I'd only use an appraiser if I didn't trust the jeweler.
The buyer must trust the jeweler because he bought the diamond there and I suspect, while very upsetting, this is an honest human error.

 

[lumpkin]

Kenny,

I see your point. I think it depends a great deal on how his fiance would feel. Given the information he gave about not wanting to ask her for the ring back, I'd check into it before upsetting her (perhaps, as one person said, without even bringing the ring physically to a meeting). Then if necessary, I would explain the situation and explain that I was hoping to resolve it without involving her and "tainting" her ring for her. Although if I were the fiance, I'm not that sentimental and would rather be involved. But we aren't the romantic "surprise her with the ring and a proposal" types. I was involved from day one on my ring and have pretty much made all the decisions about it since.

It's just a difficult situation. Many women put such an emotional attachment to their engagement rings. If she's someone who has that emotional attachment with the memory of the proposal, THE ring, etc., discretion may be the better way. Hard to say not knowing them both at all.

I hope all is resolved with a minimum of strife in the very near future.

 

[nevlossiel]

I wholeheartedly agree with everyone who says you should get the stone you paid for. I especially echo what asscherisme and kenny have said. The transaction between you and your jeweler was a business transaction. Errors sometimes happen, so go talk to them and find a solution that makes everyone happy. As Eva17 said, your fiance is a grownup. Getting the diamond you paid for won''t ruin her. Maybe the lawyer friend is correct--maybe you do have a legal right to keep the ring because you gave it to her on her birthday. But if I were to use that argument, it would feel, *to me*, like a thinly veiled justification for doing the morally wrong thing.

Good luck! I hope you find a solution that works for everyone.

 

[firebirdgold]

Ooh, I was seeing this for the perspective of a former jewelry salesperson and totally forgot the whole fiancee perspective.

As a fiance, I would be very upset if my future husband did not come to me and tell me what was going on. While I am extremely attached to my ring and admire my diamond many times a day, I would be the one who wanted to make the decision to either swap it for the diamond he picked espicially for me or to keep the diamond and try to work something out with the salesperson/owner. The fact that you picked out a diamond just for her is romantic enough to help balance things out.

That said... I don''t always advocate total honesty in relationships.

If the diamond you picked isn''t as sparkly as the mistaken identity diamod, then I might try to arrange with the store owner a small upgrade in cut. I probably would never say anything but I''d feel dissapointed every time I looked at my fixed ring and it wasn''t as sparkly as the one that wasn''t really mine. I don''t really think she needs to know if the diamond she gets in the end is the one you originally picked, since you would have picked that one too.

As for the ring itself, I would certainly express concern about the setting. JMHO here folks! It is very possible to damage a setting by taking out the diamond. (Imho, it largely depends on which setting school of thought the jeweler follows). I won''t get into the technical details here but, as long as the style of the ring allows it, I would request either the prongs be retipped or the head replaced entirely. Even if the prongs aren''t weakened or marred, the seat was carefully cut for that diamonds specific profile.

 

[Scintillating]

Gutman,
What an interesting story.
Please let us know what you decide to do.

Scintillating...

 

[galeteia]

While I do appreciate the perspective of the jeweller, I do feel that the emotional element is being seriously overlooked.

We are not talking about a car that is exactly the same model, just a different year. As far as I can tell, the consensus seems to be that diamonds are unique since it seems to be difficult to get two for an exact, indentical match. Why do women seem to be able to spot minute flaws and errors in their ring, usually within days, that no one else can see? Because they examine, admire, and stare at their engagement ring from close proximity and at long length. They take pictures at what, 10+x magnification?

I see it more like a puppy; maybe it wasn''t the one you picked out of the litter, but your fiancee doesn''t know that, and she''s already fallen in love with it.

If I felt the OP was trying to justify keeping ''illict goods'', I would say so. That is not the impression I get. He would rather pay the difference and NOT take back the ring he proposed with!

I agree that it''s likely the salesperson is trying to sneak a big, big boo-boo past the nose of the owner/manager.

Go to the owner/manager and explain that you do not want to wrest your fiancee''s ring off her finger, so what are the options that you two can work out?

 

[gutman925]

The puppy analogy s good .. I like that.

If the SPCA called me and told me that the Dog I adopted a couple weeks ago was the wrong dog and wanted to replace it with a different one, i''d be devastated.

 

[brt_mbl]

Just a thought about the idea about taking it to an appraiser... does GIA put an inscription on their stones? If so- can''t you see the reports online to find out what diamond you do have?

 

[nevlossiel]

The puppy argument isn''t a good substitute in my mind. But that''s because after two weeks, I would be more attached to a puppy -- a living creature that has depended on me for a good-quality life -- than I would to a diamond, which is a thing. Don''t get me wrong: My ring has great sentimental importance to me and will only increase in sentimental importance as time goes on and it acquires the symbolism of years. But my moral compass would point toward working amicably with all parties involved to find a solution that works for everyone. Yeah, I might have strong emotions about the ring. But I''d also have very strong emotions about doing what I perceive to be the right thing. (And I would be really annoyed if my fiance didn''t involve me in the situation.)

These are just my opinions. Handle the situation in the way that feels truly fair and just in your opinion. But I think you can find a solution in which nobody is the bad guy.

 

[kenny]

Aw heck, why stop with a puppy?

What if you had bonded with your new born baby girl and two weeks later the hospital knocked on your door because there was a swap in the maternity ward?

I mean. . . really people. . . this is getting silly.

It was a simple human error.
Bring it back and get the diamond you paid for.

 

[Larissa]

I understand attachment issues, but it''s an inanimate object. A puppy is a living creature that has a personality. This is the very reason I own a ring and not a puppy right now. I can only take so much personality and animation in my life

 

[nevlossiel]

Date: 9/26/2006 1:35:42 PM
Author: Larissa
I understand attachment issues, but it''s an inanimate object. A puppy is a living creature that has a personality.

Exactly. When stones are valued as much puppies'' lives, we have a REAL problem! Maybe gutman would be better served if we steer this debate back to stones.

 

[Beacon]

I still wonder what we are dealing with here.

If they handed out a 2ct stone, when it should have been .75pts, well, that is a rather large error and realistically, the consumer needs to deal with it honestly and bring the darn thing back.

If it is going from a VS2 clarity to a SI1 clarity in a same color 1 ct stone, well, the jeweler is still making a profit, most likely, since they mark the things up so much. In this case, I don''t see a problem with the consumer keeping the stone and the jeweler suffering the reduction in margin.

Which brings me back to finding out what happened. Gutman, don''t you want to tell us?

 

[galeteia]

This is not 'just' an inanimate object. It's her engagement ring. And for the record, I personally would not have an issue with swapping the diamond, especially if entire ring was to be remade from scratch so there was no chance of weakening the setting, but I'm not going to assume that everyone has the same attitude as me!

Have you read Cehrabehra's post about sniffling over her diamond in a store aisle? I have. Some women are very attached to their diamonds/rings. I have also read posts by women who have vowed never to take their e-rings off. There are those who say: "This is it. This is the ring I will wear for the rest of my life: no ugrades, setting changes, nothing."

OP, what is your fiancee's likely reaction to the situation? You know her best.

 

[pyramid]

I think the fiancee needs to be aware of this from the start. I think he should make an appointment and go in to see the sales assistant, and ask her/him to be honest with him and tell him the whole story, have the ring but not on show in a pocket (in its box). If the assistant is still being cagey about all the details I would ask for the owner/manager to be brought into the meeting. I think that everything possible should be done to let your fiancee keep the stone which is in her ring, ie. paying more for the stone, within reason. If it is another client's stone then I feel the stone should be given up only if it was another client having their ring repaired/remounted or something and they owned it before, if it was another client who has just purchased the stone I feel your fiancee should keep it (once the financial side is sorted) as it is already an engagement ring she was proposed to with and the other
client would always find another stone.

I do feel you have to do the moral thing here, but then everyone has a different level of perception about this. I just would not feel happy with the diamond if I had not gone to sort this all out with the jewellers.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 9/26/2006 1:30:08 PM
Author: kenny
What if you had bonded with your new born baby girl and two weeks later the hospital knocked on your door because there was a swap in the maternity ward?

I mean. . . really people. . . this is getting silly.

You BUY a puppy. You don't BUY people. Babies aren't PROPERTY. That's what's silly. I'd be interested to know the SEXES of the people on each side of this issue. Perhaps women feel more strongly attached to this *particular* inanimate object than the average GOLF CLUB.

All this "return the ring" talk ... how 'bout "work toward resolution"? Moral high ground isn't so clear cut here no matter how many people *claim* they know better.

ETA: I applaud the OP for considering his fiance's *FEELINGS* in the matter, not to mention legitimate legal rights ... rather than simply using this as an opportunity to prove what a "moral" self-sacrificing fella he is. It's not just about *HIM* or *RIGHT* or *KARMA*. I'm really suprise at the volume of the chorus.

 

[gutman925]

From the short conversation i had with the saleswoman, She led me to believe that it may be a slight difference in clarity between the diamond I selected and the diamond that was set in the ring. But like i said, she would not answer any of my questions with direct answers. From looking at it, it does not appear that I wanted a 1 carat and they gave me 1.5. Also, The company is a diamond wholesaler, I don''t believe they deal in CZ (but I''m not 100% certain)

As for knowing my Fiance, I don''t know. I know she loves the ring. I really couldnt tell you what her reaction might be if I told her we need to have it replaced. It''s only been 24 hours since I was informed of the situation, and have not discussed it with her yet. It is of my opinion that this is her ring now, and I will do what needs to be done to not replace it. If it means paying a diffewrence, then so be it. to me, there is no reason she needs to be involved, if I can avoid it—I will tell her all about it once the situation has been rectafied, or It becomes necessary to have the ring evaluated or replaced.

While I work in a different industry, being client-centric is always important. When my company makes a mistake that would effect a client, we fix the problem at our own cost—oftenw ithout the client ver-being aware that there was a problem. When one of our clients makes a mistake, we fix the problem and either our company eats the cost or we share the cost. In most cases, that is the cost of doing business when reputation and reccomendation are at stake.

My plan is to have a discussion witht he store owner or manager (whoever I can get ahold of) and go from there

As for the ring— it''s not a $50K ring or anything. This is the first diamond e-ring I''ve ever purchased (and hopefully the last). Does it really matter what clarity, cost, carat, etc it is.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 9/26/2006 2:13:07 PM
Author: gutman925


. Does it really matter what clarity, cost, carat, etc it is.

yes and no, if it''s a stone under a carat the cost the seller might have to "eat" may not be nearly as much as if it''s a 2 carat stone that you purchased where the price b/t color and clarity grades are much more dramatic. the ethical and moral issues are the same so no it wouldn''t matter there.

 

[Beacon]

Hmmm, here''s what I would do:

Get a ruler, in millmeters. Slap it on top of that ring and get a good estimate of it''s diameter. Look at the cert. If the diameters are similar, then I cannot see why you should disrupt your fiance and tear apart the setting, etc.

If it is a slight difference in clarity, I don''t think it justifies the customer inconvenience. I am a big believer in customer service too!

 

[dpsp2525]

It doesn''t really matter but we are really curious.

 

[Beacon]

I do think it matters. If they gave out a stone dramatically different from what it was supposed to be, especially a large carat size compared to a small carat size then I think the ring needs to go back.

In that case it could mean someone''s job. Also, it sort of has a tainted, stolen, feel to it, if you ask me.

If the carat size is not that big and the diffences are not that big then it just doesn''t justify all the drama surrounding taking it back from the poor FI and so on. The jeweler hasn''t lost much and the lesson is to be more careful on the QA when handing out the finished goods.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 9/26/2006 2:02:47 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 9/26/2006 1:30:08 PM

Author: kenny

What if you had bonded with your new born baby girl and two weeks later the hospital knocked on your door because there was a swap in the maternity ward?


I mean. . . really people. . . this is getting silly.

You BUY a puppy. You don''t BUY people. Babies aren''t PROPERTY. That''s what''s silly. I''d be interested to know the SEXES of the people on each side of this issue. Perhaps women feel more strongly attached to this *particular* inanimate object than the average GOLF CLUB.


All this ''return the ring'' talk ... how ''bout ''work toward resolution''? Moral high ground isn''t so clear cut here no matter how many people *claim* they know better.


ETA: I applaud the OP for considering his fiance''s *FEELINGS* in the matter, not to mention legitimate legal rights ... rather than simply using this as an opportunity to prove what a ''moral'' self-sacrificing fella he is. It''s not just about *HIM* or *RIGHT* or *KARMA*. I''m really suprise at the volume of the chorus.

(Lock those windows, Deco!

)

My housemate just pointed this out: The jewellery business spends a lot of marketing money promoting the idea that a diamond ring is not JUST a ring, and that sentimental value is priceless. I find it ironic that the sentimental value of this ring to his fiancee is being devalued.