Khalil Mahmoud

[Lookinagain]

So I just heard on the news that most of her attorneys have resigned. The reason she was deported was she had photos of the Hezbollah leader on her phone and admitted to going to his funeral She said, she supported his religion but not his politics. The hearing was canceled, I assume because most of her lawyers quit although it seems that she still has one.

 

[suling]

I hate to be a Debby downer…as if there’s any reason to be joyous right now….
But for those who cheer on this deportation-and things like “let’s move them to Africa”…..
What do you think the reaction across the world will be? Do you think this will lessen terrorists motivation?
Do you think actions like this will cause reasonable countries to have more or less reason to defend Palestinian causes?
Yay he’s gone! Be careful what you wish for.
There’s no one who loves or defends Israel more than me.

@Hi,

Unfortunately, the subject of Khalil's deportation cannot be discussed without mentioning the political reasons for his possible deportation.


Our esteemed lawyers can possibly expound on this better than I. The justification for his removal , and why the communist party was not allowed on my public campus is that the executive branch forms policy on US foreign policy (there is a amendment) If anyone visa holder or greencard holder speaks against official US policy they may be removed from this country. The Gov't says that Khalil would not have been given a greencard if his views were known. This is not a free speech issue. He cannot speak against American Foreign policy. That is the law.

Austina a member here from England once wrote that she did not post on political topics for fear it might jeopardize her ability to stay in this country. Turns out, she is right.

This country supports Isreal. The world must learn to separate a humanitarian crisis from a possible deportation of an agitator who demanded that Columbia divest its investments in Isreal. And much more. We do not need more people who cause divisions. I am totally for it, and I am not a big fan of Isreal right now.

MReader--Ihope my stance does not disappoint too much. Hate speech by a man who is in our country as a guest should also not be tolerated

We will see how this plays out. Good wishes to all of you.

Annette

 

[Rockdiamond]

If anyone visa holder or greencard holder speaks against official US policy they may be removed from this country.

Taken to its logical conclusion, a green card holder who complains that the bus is running late is subject to removal.
The only video I've seen of the individual in question shows a rational person, speaking calmly.

Totally not to pick on you....but realize that your statement "not a fan of Israel right now"....that could be taken as a cause for removal under the new set of rules.
If there's evidence presented in court, (which approves of a deportation), evidence that a person is causing unrest, promoting violence or being violent, I don't know who would argue with that.

But the new rules? Now you can't even say something that might be taken as "anti American" as a green card holder.
But while we're at it, since due process is out the window, why not treat disruptive citizens the same way?
How long before that line is crossed?

ETA- if there is video or other evidence that this guy was violent or behaving lawlessly.....I bet many of us would feel less horrified of these actions being taken without due process...if it exists, why not show it???

 

[Lookinagain]

When it comes to someone who’s a lawful permanent resident (Green Card holder), that generally requires an immigration judge to determine whether they can be deported. So they will have to appear in immigration court. The court will decide if the facts support deportation. But he is being deported based on the Secretary of State determining that his presence in the United States is bad for U.S. foreign policy, which is grounds for removal, I gather. Not sure if that skirts all of the normal due process protections but it seems like those arguably don't apply if the SOS makes the decision to deport. I haven't seen any cases cited that addressed that point as I doubt it's ever been used in this situation.

 

[suling]

Taken to its logical conclusion, a green card holder who complains that the bus is running late is subject to removal.
The only video I've seen of the individual in question shows a rational person, speaking calmly.

Totally not to pick on you....but realize that your statement "not a fan of Israel right now"....that could be taken as a cause for removal under the new set of rules.
If there's evidence presented in court, (which approves of a deportation), evidence that a person is causing unrest, promoting violence or being violent, I don't know who would argue with that.

But the new rules? Now you can't even say something that might be taken as "anti American" as a green card holder.
But while we're at it, since due process is out the window, why not treat disruptive citizens the same way?
How long before that line is crossed?

ETA- if there is video or other evidence that this guy was violent or behaving lawlessly.....I bet many of us would feel less horrified of these actions being taken without due process...if it exists, why not show it???

@Hi,

This process refers only to US Foreign Policy

Annette

 

[Rockdiamond]

@Hi,

This process refers only to US Foreign Policy

OK, so instead of complaining about the bus, the green card holder says he doesn't like the current administration....oops. He gets deported for non violent speech.
I guess that sort of speech is no longer allowed for green card holders...how long till citizens are in the same boat???.

 

[suling]

@Hi.

This doesn't apply to US citizens. Visa holders, and greencards. Look, the Dr was deported because she went to a funeral of a terrorist leader. It shows sympathy for a cause that the US opposes.

Many of you want to make us afraid of the future. We should be reasonably informed to know what is happening. But to see catastrophe at every turn is a bit much IMO. Not everything that happens will lead to a dreadful outcome.

I cannot watch most programs on MSNBC aymore. The only thing they do is instill fear. Hysteria helps no one. Thinking becomes unclear. I cannot be enraged all the time. I will pick and choose my stands with caution.

Annette

 

[Calliecake]

Threadjack….

@suling, I miss you so much here, as I’m sure others do as well. You have a way of speaking that makes it easier to see different perspectives of a situation. You don’t get angry and just simply state your well thought out opinions. I’ve learned so many things from you over the years. You bring wisdom, knowledge and yes, comfort to me here. With all that is going on in this country, I’ve found a little comfort sometimes is a much appreciated thing. Your posting here yesterday brightened my day. I want to thank you.

 

[Rockdiamond]

@suling it is good to see you posting and calm is great.
I don't regularly watch MSNBC.....nor Fox...what I have seen from both is stuff that would make you crazy.....on that we agree.

I've been a news junkie my whole life.
Being informed at this moment....just looking at the facts...or trying to figure out the facts from multiple media sources......
Based on everything I'm seeing, now is a time to panic.
Panic won't help.
So staying calm is the best answer.
Till you realize what's going on, right now.
It's really terrible for many of us.
Discussion helps ...to a really limited degree.....but we all need to find ways of staying calm.
Friends I've spoken to- many- can't sleep anymore.
It's a trying time

 

[Mreader]

I cannot watch most programs on MSNBC aymore. The only thing they do is instill fear. Hysteria helps no one. Thinking becomes unclear. I cannot be enraged all the time. I will pick and choose my stands with caution.

Annette

I don't watch that or CNN - I typically read most of my news. I do watch NBC nightly with Lester.

I have been feeling rage and panic. It is unlike me; never was a huge "news junkie" before. I do feel things that are happening are unprecedented. I also work for a university and so many of the changes (like the freezing of funds, DEI, grants) have had a real impact on me and my colleagues personally so this is not an abstract situation for us. Two of my best friends are green card holders, and one is from Jordan, so again - it feels much closer to home than in previous times.

 

[MissGotRocks]

@Hi.

This doesn't apply to US citizens. Visa holders, and greencards. Look, the Dr was deported because she went to a funeral of a terrorist leader. It shows sympathy for a cause that the US opposes.

Many of you want to make us afraid of the future. We should be reasonably informed to know what is happening. But to see catastrophe at every turn is a bit much IMO. Not everything that happens will lead to a dreadful outcome.

I cannot watch most programs on MSNBC aymore. The only thing they do is instill fear. Hysteria helps no one. Thinking becomes unclear. I cannot be enraged all the time. I will pick and choose my stands with caution.

Annette

Good points. Life certainly takes a downward spiral when you are fretting and worrying all the time. The problem with today is that it seems to be something new and outrageous every day. I guess it is just self preservation to try and be ready for any circumstance. However, we somehow have to try to temper our fear and unrest lest it take over our whole life. I appreciate your perspective and will try to keep it in mind. I cannot help but watch some news but try not to dwell on it all day. Keep waiting for the knight in shining armor to come to the rescue; don’t see him anywhere in sight right now!

 

[kenny]

Over 77 million American voters got what they wanted.
So I wonder whether the recent news makes them happy?

To PS members who voted this way: for your thoughts.

 

[suling]

Hi,

@I am now feeling bad. I don't want those of you who are panicked and worried about the future to lose your joy for life as it is now. Don't let yourselves be cheated out of lifes enjoyment.

Bright spots- At the start of the Ukraine War, people walked many miles carrying their belongings and children all the way.to their destination . When they finally arrived at the Polish station they found strollers and carriages waiting for them to unburden them of carrying their children. That brought tears to ,my eyes. The thoughtful ness of those Polish mothers was wonderful. Things like that keep me centered. Thats love.

Also for the record--While I am not Jewish my family is DUtch and my aunts ad uncles were alive during World War 11 .My fathers youngest brother and a family favorite died in the concentration camps along side the Jewish people. So personally, we too, will never forget. I have an Aunt that never recovered mentally from the war.

If we look at history everyone is smitting everyone else. I have been fortunate in my lifetime to live in the US. It will not go softly into the night. Please enjoy life even with its tribulations

Love,
Annette

 

[Slickk]

According to PBS NewsHour tonight - if I understood them correctly - she was deported because she had a picture in her possession that "seemed to indicate she might ideologically support Hezbollah."

This is it. This is "thought police" garbage. And if it can happen to her, it can happen to any of us who, say, has a picture or meme on our phone that opposes those who are currently wielding power.

Hezbollah killed 241 US Marines in 1983, bombed embassies and planned attacks here. Supporting terrorists isn’t free speech, it’s complicity.

 

[OboeGal]

Hezbollah killed 241 US Marines in 1983, bombed embassies and planned attacks here. Supporting terrorists isn’t free speech, it’s complicity.

I had already deleted my comment, as I had become aware that I didn't have all the information.

I will say, though - attending someone's funeral isn't illegal. It isn't committing a terrorist attack, it isn't helping to plan or fund one, it isn't speaking in favor of one. People are allowed to have thoughts and beliefs, even if we don't agree with those thoughts and beliefs - they just aren't allowed to commit certain acts to advance those beliefs. This still falls into "thought police" territory.

I hope you remember this when citizens start to be targeted for "believing in the wrong thing," with "the wrong thing" being whatever whoever is currently in charge decides it is that day. That is exactly where this is heading.

 

[Slickk]

@OboeGal if you attend the Hezbollah leaders’ funeral, support him religiously and have sympathetic videos and pics of the movement on your phone, you are a danger to us. I would not want her operating on my family…

According to Google:
Hezbollah not only opposes the government and policies of the State of Israel, but also each and every Jewish civilian who lives in Israel. Its 1985 manifesto reportedly states "our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no ceasefire, and no peace agreements.

The United States has designated Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation and sanctioned it.

ETA citizens have been targeted for what they believe in right here in the US already but that can’t be spoken about here.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Can we agree that any green card holder is justifiably terrified?
Say this person has led a model life, never broken a law. The person works, pays taxes but they're still an immigrant, and may look like other "undesirable" immigrants.
Say they have an aging relative in their home country....how could anyone in that position feel comfortable traveling out of the US.
But how about if the person was living in a "free country".
Say they've posted things on FB that are politically incorrect. In the land of the free that wasn't an issue.
Who could have imagined that going to a funeral would cause a denial of entry to the US?

I totally agree- enjoy every single day.
But the reality is the country we knew is gone....

 

[OboeGal]

@OboeGal if you attend the Hezbollah leaders’ funeral, support him religiously and have sympathetic videos and pics of the movement on your phone, you are a danger to us. I would not want her operating on my family.

According to Google:
Hezbollah not only opposes the government and policies of the State of Israel, but also each and every Jewish civilian who lives in Israel. Its 1985 manifesto reportedly states "our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no ceasefire, and no peace agreements.

The United States has designated Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation and sanctioned it.

ETA citizens have been targeted for what they believe in right here in the US already but that can’t be spoken about here.

Citizens haven't been targeted by the government for their beliefs here in my lifetime without the courts correcting it because that would be a clear violation of the First Amendment.

Have there been social consequences? Yes - and that has been and always will be a component of human society. For example, you have every right to decide that you would not want surgery performed by a doctor that you suspected was sympathetic to Hezbollah. That is an entirely different matter than the government penalizing that doctor if she has not taken any direct action to advance the cause of Hezbollah. If the government finds evidence that she has taken such actual actions, that is a different matter entirely, but having thoughts and feelings and going to a funeral ain't it.

This is analogous to arresting and charging someone simply for admitting that they have experienced sexual attraction to children, but has never been inappropriate with a child nor patronized media showing children inappropriately (which would be indirectly supporting an industry that victimizes children) and has kept those impulses in check. As individuals, we can choose not to allow that person to have access to our children or choose not to have a relationship with that person, but if they have never taken action that victimizes children, the government can't come after them because they have feelings.

 

[Slickk]

@OboeGal It is true that the government silenced people that didn’t go along with the narrative. And what of the grandma praying in front of an abortion clinic who was sentenced to jail?

Back to Columbia University and Khalil… this is egregious behavior, which the subject of this thread helped lead and negotiated on behalf.

Exclusive | Columbia janitors claim they were illegally forced to scrub swastikas then were attacked, trapped by anti-Israel mob as civil rights probe launched

Columbia University is facing a new federal investigation over civil rights claims from two maintenance workers who claim to have been attacked by an anti-Israel “mob” during the takeov…

nypost.com

 

[missy]

So I just heard on the news that most of her attorneys have resigned. The reason she was deported was she had photos of the Hezbollah leader on her phone and admitted to going to his funeral She said, she supported his religion but not his politics. The hearing was canceled, I assume because most of her lawyers quit although it seems that she still has one.

Yeah I read she was a Hezbollah supporter and the fact she attended his funeral makes me pause about what she is saying now. Let's see what happens in the courts. I am sure she will be able to find good attorneys to defend her(if she wants) just like Mahmoud has found many good attorneys working on his behalf.

As Slick wrote they are a terrorist organization and there are laws in place about this sort of thing in the USA.
Agree or disagree.
May due process uncover the truth

 

[Mreader]

May due process uncover the truth

This is a what I hope for.

 

[missy]

Can we agree that any green card holder is justifiably terrified?
Say this person has led a model life, never broken a law. The person works, pays taxes but they're still an immigrant, and may look like other "undesirable" immigrants.
Say they have an aging relative in their home country....how could anyone in that position feel comfortable traveling out of the US.
But how about if the person was living in a "free country".
Say they've posted things on FB that are politically incorrect. In the land of the free that wasn't an issue.
Who could have imagined that going to a funeral would cause a denial of entry to the US?

I totally agree- enjoy every single day.
But the reality is the country we knew is gone....

David yes and I feel for all the people here with green cards who love the USA
I wish they have a long happy life here

What terrifies me are the people who came here despite hating our country to change our way of life. They are here and have infiltrated us decades ago..the long game they are willing to play. They do not want peace. They want to take over and death to anyone who won't covert to their way of life.

That's my (and many others) fear. And it is valid

 

[missy]

This is a what I hope for.

100% feel the same. Anyone who is here for the right reasons. Those who truly wants to be here and want to contribute to this country. I welcome them. That's the great thing about the USA. You can make dreams come true here. So many opportunities here

 

[OboeGal]

David yes and I feel for all the people here with green cards who love the USA
I wish they have a long happy life here

What terrifies me are the people who came here despite hating our country to change our way of life. They are here and have infiltrated us decades ago..the long game they are willing to play. They do not want peace. They want to take over and death to anyone who won't covert to their way of life.

That's my (and many others) fear. And it is valid

I'm terrified of the same. Unfortunately, the threat isn't just coming from Islamic extremists; we also have many non-Islamic citizens and immigrants who hate others here, do not want peace, and have played the long game to take over and rob rights from and inflict death to anyone not like them, whether it's because of their religious beliefs, race, gender or ideology about gender, political leanings, or not being sufficiently uber-wealthy to be considered "superior enough" to inherently rule over the rest of us.

The average American resident is in serious danger right now from multiple fronts.

 

[OboeGal]

I'm going to try another approach to make my point here.

I think that, if we were to be honest, every single person on this thread has, at some point in their life, disagreed with something written into our laws or believed something that others in society would consider "dangerous" or which has defied the prevailing social narrative. I know I have. There have been many times in my life that I have felt the impulse for some vigilante justice, just as one example. However - I've never acted on those impulses, beliefs, or feelings, no matter how strong, out of respect for our laws and fear of legal consequences, just as all of you have curbed impulses or handled feelings. Should any of us face legal consequences for having those thoughts, those feelings, those beliefs, if we have made the conscious choice not to act on them in a way that defies our laws?

The doctor who was deported attended a funeral and took pictures there. As far as we know at this point, she did not act on any "anti-western" or "anti-American" sentiments she might or might not hold in any way that constituted any threat to anyone here. (I've seen in some media reports that she maintains that she did not attend because of political agreement with Hezbollah but for religious reasons. I don't know if this is true or not, but I imagine some investigation could shed light on what her political inclinations actually are.) As far as we know, she didn't participate in or help plan or help fund or recruit for any anti-western campaigns or attacks.

What actions do we know she DID take? She worked daily to help save the lives of people here.

Is it possible that she was playing some sort of long game and planned at a future point, once she had engendered trust in the community, to take action against our way of life? Yes, it's possible - but that's the case with everyone who enters our country from elsewhere AND with everyone who's born here. Anyone can become radicalized. (It's also quite possible, if she did hold some anti-western feelings, that her mind could have been changed over time living here, and now that opportunity has been lost.)

So, should we never allow anyone to ever immigrate or work here again? Or should they have to have a spotless record of being "rah, rah, America!" in all their words and actions in life - as if that can't be faked by someone with a nefarious agenda? Are we going to imprison American citizens who have, say, spoken out against whoever was in political office at a given moment or attended a meeting of a political resistance group or expressed anger against others at, say, a family gathering, if they're supporting "the other side" from us, whatever that constitutes, based on the claim that their beliefs make them a "threat" to us? That is where "thought policing" is going - it will come home to roost here, turning citizens against citizens, too.

Every single person on earth has experienced thoughts and feelings and sentiments that are "antisocial" at some point in their life by someone's standards; it's part of being human. When it comes to the mighty power of government prosecution, we need to be careful to judge each other by our actions, not our thoughts, or the bell WILL eventually toll for thee.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The greatest threat American Jews have faced has not been Islamic terrorists.
So many terrorist acts have been homegrown… and based on non Islamic antisemitism.
Tree of Life…
Remember our prior nemesis - the Nazis. They lost WW2 but make no mistake, they’ve not gone away. Plenty of them living among us. Born here. That scares me far more than campus protests.
Are we checking for any other hate speech?
The FBI used to pay attention to many white supremacy groups….with good reason . That’s probably done.
About green card holders and others….Saying we wish them well ain’t gonna help the millions of honest hard working immigrants who will have to live in fear for the foreseeable future. This is impacting many of us on a deeply personal level. So sad.

 

[Mreader]

From Reuters involving the transplant doctor. The justice dept response sounds like BS. The doctor’s attorney showed officials the order and it was before the plane took off:



Similarly, with The Venezuelan deportees - WH officials are making flimsy excuses and/or just saying the judge was unlawful. Bottom line they defied the order and I don’t get why nobody is being held in contempt.

Khalil’s hearing is set for March 27.

 

[nala]

The Holocaust started with mass deportations too.

 

[Matata]

Citizens haven't been targeted by the government for their beliefs here in my lifetime without the courts correcting it because that would be a clear violation of the First Amendment.

Judges are currently targeted by the administration for ruling against the head honcho with the goal of getting rid of those judges which puts the potential of any type of correction for any violation of Constitutional rights in jeopardy.

 

[missy]

The Holocaust started with mass deportations too.

Nazi Germany organized systematic deportations of Jews from across Europe to ghettos and killing centers

"Autumn 1941 marked the start of a systematic programme of Jewish deportations from Germany and the German-occupied countries to extermination camps in the east. At the same time, a strict ban on Jewish emigration was introduced. The deportation of Jews, which the Nazis cynically referred to as „evacuation“

The USA wouldn't take the jews citing "existing immigration quotas and security concerns"
Meanwhile none of the jewish population would ever cause the havoc we are seeing now from other groups.

I'm terrified of the same. Unfortunately, the threat isn't just coming from Islamic extremists; we also have many non-Islamic citizens and immigrants who hate others here, do not want peace, and have played the long game to take over and rob rights from and inflict death to anyone not like them, whether it's because of their religious beliefs, race, gender or ideology about gender, political leanings, or not being sufficiently uber-wealthy to be considered "superior enough" to inherently rule over the rest of us.

The average American resident is in serious danger right now from multiple fronts.

Yes while this is true there is no threat like the "extreme" Islamic threat. A great number of terrorists are Islamic. That is true. The overwhelming majority of extremist and violent terrorist violence do occur in largely Muslim states. Many of the attacks are by Muslim extremists on fellow Muslims. Which I find interestingly ignored by mainstream media; No jews? No news. B

ut I will add a critical comment....Are most Muslims terrorists? NO.


However, IMO, Islamic terrorism is our biggest threat at the moment.
Are there are other threats? YES. Absolutely.