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Khalil Mahmoud

ItsMainelyYou said:
Nobody seems to want to mention the tens of thousands of children.
Personally, I can't care what your ideology may happen to be at that point.
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If I remember correctly (only a 50% chance of that), it was brought up in very early discussions that are either closed or erased. There's no way to discuss that here without violating the rules, imo, because what is acceptable collateral damage to some is heinous and inexcusable to others and never the twain shall meet. The emotions surrounding the issue are, imo, too volatile to discuss here.
 
@ItsMainelyYou do you remember waaaaaay back when you hoped you'd be able to change your avatar? I'm afraid you'll have to keep it for a lot longer as will I with my "WTF are you thinking" owl.
 
Matata said:
@ItsMainelyYou do you remember waaaaaay back when you hoped you'd be able to change your avatar? I'm afraid you'll have to keep it for a lot longer as will I with my "WTF are you thinking" owl.
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I do, and she stays. She encapsulates everything.
 
kenny said:
If they are American citizens, can they even be deported?
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In 2002, the U.S. District Court in Cleveland revoked Demjanjuk's naturalized U.S. citizenship.

so I would read that to say his citizenship was revoked. Once he wasn't a citizen, he could be deported because he had been denaturalized. A U.S. born citizen can lose their citizenship for a few reasons, such as serving in a foreign military, renouncing their citizenship, committing and act of treason, etc. There are a couple more. So it seems that unless you have lost your citizenship, you cannot be deported.
 
OboeGal said:
Due process.

I don't care how heinous someone's beliefs or actions are - if they are in the US legally, they are entitled to due process.
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Yes, it's the apparent lack of due process that disturbs me. Guilt needs to be decided in court.
 
Lookinagain said:
I think in this case they deported the parents, and sent her with them.
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How unbelievably kind.....riiiiiiiiiiight....
I want to thank Ella. There's no reason to allow this sort of discussion other than the fact that this forum is dedicated to the members.
There's ZERO "reason" for me to get involved here too.....as a business consideration.
But the possibility of exchanging ideas at this time seems more important.....
And of course we won't solve anything here.
People are dug in deep- I feel like I'm open to ideas, but it's likely that people who seem "dug in" to me also feel that they are open to new ideas.
Peace.
Please let's not make Ella work more.....
 
Matata said:
Please clarify what you mean by namecalling. Calling someone a libtard, a repukelican, sissypants, dingdong is, imo, namecalling. I personally get irate if someone calls me anti-semitic and I might be insulted by it but I don't consider it namecalling although I understand that others may not agree with me. So if you can give us a general parameter for what constitutes namecalling it would be helpful.

I've seen examples throughout various discussions where an insult or namecall against an idea, a principle, an ideology has been mistaken for an insult against a poster expressing the idea, principle, ideology which makes things all the more confusing when it's reported and a warning is issued. Perhaps a rule that one can insult the post but not the poster would help. In that case the responsibility is on posters to carefully write their responses to the ideas expressed rather than the person expressing them (for example: that is a dumb idea rather than you're dumb to believe that) and anyone who can't abide by that can be handled in whatever way you choose rather than ending the entire thread.

Thanks for reading through all that. Not trying to be a mod, just trying to suggest things that might make it better/easier for all of us.
Click to expand...

Criticize policies and not people is the general rule of thumb. We should not be calling anyone anti-semitic, anti-Muslim or other inflammatory labels. Discuss the ideas that someone is sharing, not their personal merits or your view of them.

We remove many posts per day and get many reports from these kinds of threads and we will just be closing them instead of allowing these important discussions to happen if name calling/insults keep happening.

We want PS to be a place for intelligent discourse, but not at the expense of the kindness and generosity that people usually bring to these boards.
 
@ItsMainelyYou every single casualty on both sides are a direct result of Hamas's actions.
Every. Single, One.
And may I remind you that the IDF never purposefully kills innocent civilians unlike Hamas.

Plus, and this is less important, because every death matters IMO. But the UN cut in half its estimates of the number of women and children killed in Gaza. The estimates were based on Hamas numbers and are a reminder that all fatality estimates coming from that source are unreliable.

War is horrible. Any war. For any reason. But this was not a war Israel wanted. The horror of war is forever. Forever.
The casualties are horrific.
But this is what happens in war.
Again a war none of us wanted.
The only ones who wanted this were the terrorist organizations and they don't even care about their own casualties.
They glorify death.
Something we don't do.
We value life.

​

 
@missy , I just want you to know that you are not alone. Please know that the loudest voices are not necessarily reflective of the opinions of others.
 
missy said:
@ItsMainelyYou every single casualty on both sides are a direct result of Hamas's actions.
Every. Single, One.
And may I remind you that the IDF never purposefully kills innocent civilians unlike Hamas.

Plus, and this is less important, because every death matters IMO. But the UN cut in half its estimates of the number of women and children killed in Gaza. The estimates were based on Hamas numbers and are a reminder that all fatality estimates coming from that source are unreliable.

War is horrible. Any war. For any reason. But this was not a war Israel wanted. The horror of war is forever. Forever.
The casualties are horrific.
But this is what happens in war.
Again a war none of us wanted.
The only ones who wanted this were the terrorist organizations and they don't even care about their own casualties.
They glorify death.
Something we don't do.
We value life.

​

Click to expand...

Most of us in America did not want the aftermath of this war either and yet, here we are, suffering the effects.
 
Party X insists ... But this is just revenge for what Y did
But then party Y insists ... But this is just revenge for what X did
But then party X insists ... But this is just revenge for what Y did
But then party Y insists ... But this is just revenge for what X did
But then party X insists ... But this is just revenge for what Y did
But then party Y insists ... But this is just revenge for what X did
But then party X insists ... But this is just revenge for what Y did
But then party Y insists ... But this is just revenge for what X did
But then party X insists ... But this is just revenge for what Y did
But then party Y insists ... But this is just revenge for what X did
... over and over ... ad nauseam

Religions rewire brains, especially of children; around age 27 is when brains are finished developing.
Youngsters' brains are too young to be exposed to stuff that requires a mature mind to evaluate, judge and decide on participation, like alcohol, smoking, secks, religion, etc.

I have no dog in this fight, and am not anti-semetic, or anti-Islam.
I'm just pro-reason.

Word to the wise: Believing in falling for stuff that does not have sufficient evidence to warrant rational believe can be somewhat problematic.
 
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The US and Israel spoke with some of the poorest and war torn nations in Africa--Sudan, Somalia--and Somaliland about taking all the Palestinians left in Gaza. All three refused.
 
Matata said:
The US and Israel spoke with some of the poorest and war torn nations in Africa--Sudan, Somalia--and Somaliland about taking all the Palestinians left in Gaza. All three refused.
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Unfortunately no one wants them. Egypt built a high security wall on the border with Gaza to keep out the Palestinians. For reasons I can’t go into due to the rules.

Thank you Cinders and Karl. I appreciate your support.

I never wanted to be a spokesperson for this but felt I had no choice
 
Snowdrop13 said:
... The Guardian is a left leaning publication.
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Really?!?
Oh No! :eek2:
Everyone knows that only the right leaning publications are accurate.

IOW :wall::wall::wall:

All this "SIDES" bs will be the death of us.
America's stupidity will be our death.
Humans, everywhere, are doomed.

We deserve to be snuffed out by our own stupidity!
I just hope some life forms survive after humans vanish.
 
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OboeGal said:
*sigh*

Due process.

I don't care how heinous someone's beliefs or actions are - if they are in the US legally, they are entitled to due process. I want to see real evidence - not internet memes. Not claims on social media. Not claims by politicians. Real evidence, and judged guilty through the proper impartial legal proceeding. If the evidence is there, that shouldn't be difficult. Anything else is essentially vigilante justice.

If you're OK with him not being shown due process, prepare to not receive it either when you are accused by someone of something, because that is what WILL happen if we let this stand.

We HAVE to separate our feelings about who someone is, what they believe, or what they've done from the Constitutional rights that they hold, or else we have become what we hate.

@Slickk, so far you haven't produced anything that indicates that he committed illegal acts. I'm not saying he has or he hasn't, but I haven't seen evidence of such, and none of us sitting here opinionating is equivalent to an impartial court trial. Our government can't detain or deport or otherwise legally punish someone for believing in something - to do so is both unconstitutional and Orwellian. He and others are allowed to desire to "bring down western civilization" all they wish - what is illegal is certain actions around that belief. Other actions around it are legal and allowed by our Constitution - he can fundraise, he can organize legal protests, he can help like-minded people to run for office, etc. Those of us who disagree with him can choose not to contribute, not to vote for like-minded candidates, to counter-protest, to speak against his beliefs, etc. He can even say utterly vile things, and people can speak out just as loudly against those vile things. That is our legal system, and it protects US to adhere to it. You're misunderstanding support for the legal protections of due process for ALL - not just those we agree with - for support for him and his beliefs. It's not the same.

I don't want to live in a country where the government has become "thought police."
Click to expand...

I agree -- very well said, Oboegal. I would point out, however, that the courts have long held that everyone in the US is entitled to due process, not just those here legally. A person's right to remain silent, to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, as well as other fundamental rights guaranteed under 4A and 5A of the Constitution don't hinge on whether they are properly documented. That doesn't mean they can't be arrested, detained, and deported if they are here illegally, it just means it has to be done in accordance with the rule of law like David says. That's the world I still live in and have sworn an oath to protect...but it's feeling more challenging these days.
 
Due process, please.
Bypassing due process smacks of fascism, even if it's for an arguably good cause, yes even if it is your cause.
 
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kenny said:
I just hope some life forms survive after humans vanish.
Click to expand...

Rest assured many will thrive. So it was before our arrival and so it will be after we're gone.
 
kenny said:
Really?!?
Oh No! :eek2:
Everyone knows that only the right leaning publications are accurate.

IOW :wall::wall::wall:

All this "SIDES" bs will be the death of us.
America's stupidity will be our death.
Humans, everywhere, are doomed.

We deserve to be snuffed out by our own stupidity!
I just hope some life forms survive after humans vanish.
Click to expand...

Sorry Kenny, I never know if you’re actually being rude or just trying to be ironic. I mentioned that merely as a Brit among lots of Americans who may or may not need a bit of context.
 
Snowdrop13 said:
Sorry Kenny, I never know if you’re actually being rude or just trying to be ironic. I mentioned that merely as a Brit among lots of Americans who may or may not need a bit of context.
Click to expand...

Yes, context would've helped.
 
Matata said:
Hamas wants to destroy all Jews = genocide. Netanyahu wants to destroy Hamas = genocide.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree Matata. There is no genocide happening against Hamas. They are a murderous terrorist organization. Israel has every right to defend herself. Every. Right. Don't blame Israel for defending herself against a murderous rampage. Any one of us in this situation would protect themselves as best as they could. Any one of us

But if we are talking about genocide...here are the actual genocides happening all over the world.

These are the real victims of massacres, genocides and ethnic cleansing:

South Sudan
Sudan
Nigeria
Congo
Syria
Israel


A genocide is happening in Syria at this very minute
Thousands and thousands of Christians and Alawites just massacred in Syria
20,000 murdered
And innocent Muslims are also being murdered here
All in the name of Allah
Massacring Christians, Alawites and Druze


And the Perpetrators are Jihadists/Islamists

Fact.

Why is everyone remaining silent about this?
Do you care about these murders?
About these innocent humans being mercilessly tortured and killed by Jihadists?

Or does this not fit your ( the general "your" not you specifically Matata) narrative?

Speak out for what is right
 
missy said:
Yes blame me for your behavior
Not surprising at all
That’s the MO of anti semitic rhetoric
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Blaming you, no.
Looking for where the bar is set? Sure.

When this thread is set up to be about due process, fundamental rights and immediately tries to separate from the other awful, horrible connected aspects to the individual.
When the other thread last week or so (deleted) tried to discuss the nazi salutes being done on stage - I believe it was said there was no earned ‘right’ to discuss it, or something to that effect.
What you could find of other peoples SM posts was also a barometer for both.

Both of these threads contained valid concerns to what it may mean for the future, in setting concerning precedents.

So looking at where the bar is set? Yes, especially from multiple people.

I understand your passion and viewpoint to not wish to separate for the sake of discussion. Too bad it’s not reciprocal in this aspect.

And no - not name calling. Let it stand.
 
nala said:
Most of us in America did not want the aftermath of this war either and yet, here we are, suffering the effects.
Click to expand...

This is true Nala. But the fact is, like it or not, had the past administration taken a zero tolerance stance on the harassment and intimidation of Jewish students things might have been different.The fact is those defending Mahmoud under the free speech argument couldn't be bothered to care about the Jewish students being prevented from attending classes and from being physically harassed.

The fact is the Democratic party had over a year to shut down the violent protests. Arrest those students who were violent and PROTECT the jewish students. They did nothing. Jewish students were forced to BARRICADE themselves in their dorm rooms, in the libraries and attics to avoid the threat of physical assault, to avoid physical harm and they had to tolerate death threats from what some here are calling "peaceful protests". BS and you (should) know it.

The fact is anti semitism is present on both sides of politics. 100% true.
But, only one side is doing anything to protect the jewish people.
 
Rfisher said:
Blaming you, no.
Looking for where the bar is set? Sure.

When this thread is set up to be about due process, fundamental rights and immediately tries to separate from the other awful, horrible connected aspects to the individual.
When the other thread last week or so (deleted) tried to discuss the nazi salutes being done on stage - I believe it was said there was no earned ‘right’ to discuss it, or something to that effect.
What you could find of other peoples SM posts was also a barometer for both.

Both of these threads contained valid concerns to what it may mean for the future, in setting concerning precedents.

So looking at where the bar is set? Yes, especially from multiple people.

I understand your passion and viewpoint to not wish to separate for the sake of discussion. Too bad it’s not reciprocal in this aspect.

And no - not name calling. Let it stand.
Click to expand...

I agree due process should be followed.

I am confused however why you and others choose to only see one side of this
Do you not agree Israel should protect herself?
That she has every right to defend herself against murderous terrorist groups who seek her destruction?
Do you not agree war sucks but that Hamas started this war? It was started during a ceasefire
Let me repeat that. A ceasefire was in place on October 6th.

And guess what?
This war could be ENDED if Hamas releases the rest of the hostages and surrenders
It's that simple

Release the hostages
Let our people go
Am Yisrael Chai
 
missy said:
I agree due process should be followed.

I am confused however why you and others choose to only see one side of this
Do you not agree Israel should protect herself?
That she has every right to defend herself against murderous terrorist groups who seek her destruction?
Do you not agree war sucks but that Hamas started this war? It was started during a ceasefire
Let me repeat that. A ceasefire was in place on October 6th.

And guess what?
This war could be ENDED if Hamas releases the rest of the hostages and surrenders
It's that simple

Release the hostages
Let our people go
Am Yisrael Chai
Click to expand...

Start a separate thread for those points.
 
Rfisher said:
Start a separate thread for those points.
Click to expand...

Maybe but not sure it is worth it because I feel I am speaking into the abyss.
Feel free to answer any of my questions or address my points. More than happy to engage in a civil discussion about this but I do feel many here are being unreasonable and do not feel Israel has the right to defend herself. It's a simple question and yet I cannot get an answer. 100% Israel has the right to defend herself against all who seek to destroy Israel (and all the jews).

The terrifying thing is, this won't stop at Israel. Their goals are clear. I won't go into them again because I don't want this thread shut down. I appreciate the ability to discuss this. But this does not stop with Israel or the Jews. Remember the canary in the coal mine
 
missy said:
I agree due process should be followed.

I am confused however why you and others choose to only see one side of this
Do you not agree Israel should protect herself?
That she has every right to defend herself against murderous terrorist groups who seek her destruction?
Do you not agree war sucks but that Hamas started this war? It was started during a ceasefire
Let me repeat that. A ceasefire was in place on October 6th.

And guess what?
This war could be ENDED if Hamas releases the rest of the hostages and surrenders
It's that simple

Release the hostages
Let our people go
Am Yisrael Chai
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree that Israel should defend. But the indiscriminate attacks on civilians is what was getting the world’s attention.

Former admin - it was damned if you do damned if you don’t. Trying to walk the line - he condemned the the violence and called for peaceful protest.

What puzzles me about your acrimony for former admin - The gov never withdrew its support from Israel to the point that many on the left were so upset by this that they refused to vote, voted 3rd party, wrote “ceasefire” on ballot etc. Since Oct 2023 aid to Israel reached the highest it had in decades. So it’s just perplexing to me the idea that the admin didn’t do anything. :confused:

Right now Columbia is basically being blackmailed with the cancellation of $400 million in federal funding and most of those dollars have nothing to do with this conflict. They had to do with all kinds of scientific research that’s now on hold. That’s just terrible for the country. And this threat is looming for other universities as well.

This is one reason why this is so important in terms of the violation of free speech and the first amendment because if he doesn’t get due process, then it sets a dangerous precedent for the rest of the country and education as a whole is being severely threatened.

Just recently in the Texas legislature, there’s some idiotic bill that’s being introduced whereby government will be able to oversee every faculty senate meeting, that those meetings need to be recorded, that they overseeing hiring of Chairs, Deans, Provost, combing for DEI - all
of it smacks of a totalitarian regime.
 
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