Living together before marriage...

[Bikergirl]

It''s because they''re parents! And it doesn''t matter how old you get - they will still be parents. Somewhere earlier I read that a poster in her 50''s still worried about her families'' reaction to her choices. Crazy, huh?

It''s also crazy the things that people will get upset over. I grew up in foster care, but have always had contact with my family. So I''ve been pretty independent my whole life, and have worked hard to get where I''m at. I''ve made a lot of choices that my family didn''t really like, but since most of them have turned out pretty well, they''ve mostly quit voicing opposition.

They didn''t really say much when I moved in with my then-boyfriend. Didn''t say much when we got engaged. But when it came time for the wedding, and my now husband and I decided to go to Costa Rica and have a small ceremony with just a few people....well, my family accused me of intentionally excluding them and basically disowned me. We made this decision *after* my family stated they wouldn''t be attending the wedding....so what''s the problem?

Guess I made it impossible for them to shun me at my own wedding. How selfish of me.

Point being you will work through it. Do what''s right for you, and always be happy with your decisions - even if the results are not what you expected. And be prepared to deal with a few "I told you so''s"

 

[sxn675]

I agree with Fire & Ice. If you live together before marriage, you work out the quirks before. If you live together after marriage, you work out the quirks at that point. IMHO, it''s not the quirks that tear people apart, but bigger issues like respect for one another etc etc.

 

[Mara]

Date: 11/24/2004 3:38:36 PM
Author: sxn675
I agree with Fire & Ice. If you live together before marriage, you work out the quirks before. If you live together after marriage, you work out the quirks at that point. IMHO, it's not the quirks that tear people apart, but bigger issues like respect for one another etc etc.

This brings up an interesting point. I have a good friend who has been married once and just recently broke off an engagement with a guy she was living with for the last year. The big 'reason' for the second breakoff was that his parents were causing SO much strife in the relationship that my friend couldn't really see herself with this guy for the rest of her life after all. First off they got engaged WAY too early so I wasn't shocked at all that they called it off after actually getting to know each other, but I think part of the final straw on the breakup spoke to the fact that my friend probably lost respect for her mate-to-be in how he dealt with (or didn't deal with) his overbearing, very religious mother. He was one person when he was with my friend, and another to his mother. Therefore the mother always viewed my friend as being a bad influence on the son, when in reality the son was just not letting his mom see who he really was (aka had a few drinks and smoked sometimes and would cuss sometimes, which the mom NEVER knew), but because my friend wouldn't temper HER attitude or personality when around the mom, the mom thought she was the bad influence.

So some could say that the 'quirks' that my friend couldn't live with were potential bad in-laws which alot of people would say 'well get over it if you love the individual', but in reality it was the son who was perpetuating the issues between his mom and his fiancee and therefore probably led to the breakup after my friend realized she didn't want to spend the rest of her life with a man who couldn't stand up to his mother!

So there's the 'reason' and then there's the REASON.

 

[fire&ice]

So some could say that the ''quirks'' that my friend couldn''t live with were potential bad in-laws which alot of people would say ''well get over it if you love the individual'', but in reality it was the son who was perpetuating the issues between his mom and his fiancee and therefore probably led to the breakup after my friend realized she didn''t want to spend the rest of her life with a man who couldn''t stand up to his mother!

So there''s the ''reason'' and then there''s the REASON.

See, I don''t view that as a quirk. I view it as a relationship issue, something fundemental to it. She, the wife, would never come first. And, quite frankly, his inability to deal with his mother goes to issue of his inability to deal with relationships in general. Been there. Done that - EXCEPT- in my case, my to be handled his mother/my future inlaws. Doesn''t make them any less crazy, doesn''t make me any less crazy to be around them, just that they don''t interfere with our relationship. And, I knew this was an issue w/o living together.

My "whatever" is that I don''t let them bother me. But, the resolved issue was my to be *not* perpetuating the issues. BIg difference. Crazy inlaws a quirk to live with. Being part of the drama isn''t.

To me, quirks aren''t fundemental things that have direct impact on your future together. Hubby would have left me long ago if quirks got to him. I''m one of the quirkiest people on the planet. It must be love because he thinks it''s cute.

I guess my commentary - quirks are a "whatever" thing. Issues should be dealt head on. People do have different lifestyles/ ways of living; but, if you mesh well, assimulating them shouldn''t be that big of a deal before or after marriage.

 

[sxn675]

Again, I agree with Fire and Ice. Things like in-law issues and money issues go way beyond the scope of quirks like not picking up socks and making piles. If a couple gets engaged too early, then yes, they might not have the chance to talk about those things. But, that doesn't mean that living together is a must.... Again, I'm not saying that living together is wrong, but I don't see how it's essential.

 

[Mara]

Guess it's all in the way you view a quirk vs a 'relationship issue'. Sometimes quirks turns into relationship issues, aka bitterness or resentfulness that one is not doing what the other would prefer (aka leaving socks around could be construed as laziness and non-respectful of the other party). Just as 'quirks' can also sometimes add to the stress that other issues may be causing, such as family problems (aka MILs) or a lifestyle difference (aka spender vs saver), in my opinion they are ALL relationship issues that you either work through or move on, however you phrase the terminology. Having lived with various people in my life, there are people you just mesh with or you don't. I have friends who hated living together but are great friends...you can love someone outside of the house but not in it.

That's why there are so many types of people in the world, so that people can find each other and work it out if it's important to them!

 

[aljdewey]

Honestly.........does it really matter what you call the reason one can't live with someone else?

It doesn't matter what you *classify* it as.......call it a quirk, call it a tornado, call it late for lunch for all I care. The point is that NOT everyone can successfully live together.......which is why we don't all live together.

I respect that you don't feel the need for such advance knowledge, but some others *do*....that's what makes the world go around. We are all different and have different approaches. Frankly, I didn't really need to live with Rich first, but I'm glad I did, because I just learned so much more about him and that depth made our vows that much sweeter.

For some people, the "quirk" (or whatever it pleases you to call it) of leaving one's socks in the middle of bedroom floor may get blown out of proportion. To the woman who seethes at that, the one that *REPEATEDLY* asks him to pick them up, the one that gets really pissed when he continues to do it *in spite* of the fact that he knows it's a huge peeve for her......to that woman, it could very well be that the "quirky" issue means more. It could mean that he doesn't respect her enough to prioritize it. It could say to her "I know it bugs you, but that's not important to me". Please.....ANYTHING can be indicative of something more fundamental depending on how one interprets it.

As far as SNX's comment that "living with someone beforehand isn't a must".......who said it was? It's not a must for some people to price-shop, or attend college, or stay current in their fields. There are tons of people who don't feel the least bit worried about making major decisions without any preparation. For those folks, hey......more power to you.

But for those who feel that they make better decisions when they have done their diligence, more power to them too. The beauty of this life is that you don't have to do it my way, nor I yours.

 

[sxn675]

A., some of the responses implied that living together is a must for everyone versus the right choice for them, which is what I was responding to....

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/24/2004 8

9:12 PM
Author: sxn675
A., some of the responses implied that living together is a must for everyone versus the right choice for them, which is what I was responding to....

Ah......got it. I didn''t pick up that vibe.....but I did pick up a vibe that told people that some of their reasons for living together aren''t valid, and that''s what prompted my response.

I think ANYTHING that makes someone comfortable that they are making the right decision for them....whether it''s not living together or living together....is the goal.

 

[sxn675]

Date: 11/24/2004 8:18:24 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 11/24/2004 8

9:12 PM

Author: sxn675

A., some of the responses implied that living together is a must for everyone versus the right choice for them, which is what I was responding to....

Ah......got it. I didn''t pick up that vibe.....but I did pick up a vibe that told people that some of their reasons for living together aren''t valid, and that''s what prompted my response.


I think ANYTHING that makes someone comfortable that they are making the right decision for them....whether it''s not living together or living together....is the goal.

A vibe from me? I don''t really care about if other people live together or not... I was responding to the piece about "how can you know each other unless you live with each other?"...

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/24/2004 8:20:27 PM
Author: sxn675


A vibe from me?

No, it wasn''t a vibe from you.....earlier in the thread, a few people opined on what are "valid" reasons for living together and what are not. That rubbed me the wrong way.....who is anyone else to determine what is *good enough* for me or good enough for you?

My replies were to those comments....that I think it''s a bit presumptuous to sit in judgment on the reasons behind someone''s decision to live together (or not) and decide whether those are "good enough" reasons. What''s right for me may not be right for someone else and vice versa......so there is no *right* reason or *wrong* reason as a whole. It''s a matter of what''s right for *that* individual at *that* time.

 

[Mara]

Honestly though, does anyone really think they can know someone entirely before living with them? Sure I guess if you spend 99% of your time with that person and just have separate addresses, that's practically living together. But otherwise, regular dating and not living together or spending those massive amounts of time with them, you don't see them in their 'at home' element, you don't see them when they are at their most free. When people date, they are usually on their best behavior for a period of time and then slowly they become more of themselves. Which is why I tend to think longer dating and cohabitation before committing your life to someone is smart. But that's just my opinion. I have friends who have lived together before marriage, those who didn't, friends who never got married but live together, have been together for 7 years, and have 2 kids, etc. In the end it's however it floats your boat and how you are happiest, but the thread is about whether or not people have opinions on living together or not.

Though I do have to say that spending 99% of your time with someone and actually living with them 24/7 is somewhat different. When we lived separately, Greg and I had a place to go if we needed time away and it wasn't a big deal, aka I'm going home...I'll call ya later. Now, if someone needs space, we go to another area of the house or go run an errand etc...but you can't say 'I'm going home'...hehe.

 

[sxn675]

Date: 11/24/2004 8:37:38 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 11/24/2004 8:20:27 PM

Author: sxn675



A vibe from me?

No, it wasn''t a vibe from you.....earlier in the thread, a few people opined on what are ''valid'' reasons for living together and what are not. That rubbed me the wrong way.....who is anyone else to determine what is *good enough* for me or good enough for you?


My replies were to those comments....that I think it''s a bit presumptuous to sit in judgment on the reasons behind someone''s decision to live together (or not) and decide whether those are ''good enough'' reasons. What''s right for me may not be right for someone else and vice versa......so there is no *right* reason or *wrong* reason as a whole. It''s a matter of what''s right for *that* individual at *that* time.

Gotcha - sometimes it''s hard to know who''s talking to whom on a messageboard!

 

[sxn675]

Date: 11/24/2004 8:42:27 PM
Author: Mara
Honestly though, does anyone really think they can know someone entirely before living with them? Sure I guess if you spend 99% of your time with that person and just have separate addresses, that's practically living together. But otherwise, regular dating and not living together or spending those massive amounts of time with them, you don't see them in their 'at home' element, you don't see them when they are at their most free. When people date, they are usually on their best behavior for a period of time and then slowly they become more of themselves. Which is why I tend to think longer dating and cohabitation before committing your life to someone is smart. But that's just my opinion. I have friends who have lived together before marriage, those who didn't, friends who never got married but live together, have been together for 7 years, and have 2 kids, etc. In the end it's however it floats your boat and how you are happiest, but the thread is about whether or not people have opinions on living together or not.

Though I do have to say that spending 99% of your time with someone and actually living with them 24/7 is somewhat different. When we lived separately, Greg and I had a place to go if we needed time away and it wasn't a big deal, aka I'm going home...I'll call ya later. Now, if someone needs space, we go to another area of the house or go run an errand etc...but you can't say 'I'm going home'...hehe.

Mara, I don't think anyone thinks that OR that anyone said that. I think that where people differ is in how much day to day knowledge two people need about each other before getting married.

 

[Mara]

Date: 11/24/2004 8:20:27 PM
Author: sxn675

I was responding to the piece about 'how can you know each other unless you live with each other?'...

________________________

Date: 11/24/2004 8:42:27 PM
Author: Mara

Honestly though, does anyone really think they can know someone entirely before living with them?
________________________

Date: 11/24/2004 8:59:48 PM
Author: sxn675

Mara, I don't think anyone thinks that OR that anyone said that.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood the part up above. I was responding to that.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/24/2004 8:59:48 PM
Author: sxn675

Date: 11/24/2004 8:42:27 PM
Author: Mara
Honestly though, does anyone really think they can know someone entirely before living with them?

Mara, I don't think anyone thinks that OR that anyone said that. I think that where people differ is in how much day to day knowledge two people need about each other before getting married.

Maybe you didn't see F&I's comment: "That said, how could someone really not know a person before marriage."

Hmmm....let's see. Why don't we look at a few examples. Let's ask the wife of the now ex-gov of NJ how well she thinks she *knew* her husband....yanno, the one who turns out to be gay? I'd bet she thought she *knew* him. Let's ask Susan Smith's ex-husband if he thought he *knew* her....and if he did, why would he marry her if she was capable of drowing her two kids? Of course they didn't know these "fundamental" things.

Now, don't be rash and get ready to type a bunch of text about how they couldn't have known that from living together first.....I'd agree. My only point is, it's impossible to presume that you know all the "fundamental" things about a person....whether or not you share space beforehand.

The notion that you can *know* even every *important* element is a bit outlandish to me. The best anyone can do is do whatever diligence he/she feels is important in making their decisions.

I guess it depends on one's definition of "know". There is knowing someone, and then there is *KNOWING* someone. I'd rather know more than less, but that's me. Again, no one right answer for everyone......don't you think?

 

[Jennifer5973]

We don''t really know anything, do we? We don''t know for sure if we''re going to get out of bed tomorrow, for Pete''s sake.

This thread asked for opinions, and while I have mine, I would never take a tone of absolute rightousness about any one thing. Certain issues--animal cruelty, child abuse, etc., have absolute opinions--those things are revolting, but short of such extremes, many things are up to the people in each situation. I''ve seen women date men for 6 years and then find they are violent, a drug abuser you name it--the act of living together is not a panacea for the unknown in a mate, and not cohabitating doesn''t make or break your relationship.... Yes, I feel some level of commitment should be present when making the decision to live together but hey--that''s my view.

No one''s choice is "illogical'' or "wrong" or "stupid." Let''s come back down to earth already.

 

[moremoremore]

You go girl!!!

 

[Mara]

Date: 11/24/2004 10:11

9 PM
Author: Jennifer5973
We don't really know anything, do we?

Exactly the point. There are no absolutes. Only opinions, which are what are being discussed, it's an open forum and we're all friends here!

I think I missed the illogical and stupid terminology. Clue me in.

(Edited to add...Al you are my scary twin!!! Post stalker!)

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/24/2004 10:11

9 PM
Author: Jennifer5973
We don't really know anything, do we? We don't know for sure if we're going to get out of bed tomorrow, for Pete's sake.

This thread asked for opinions, and while I have mine, I would never take a tone of absolute rightousness about any one thing. Certain issues--animal cruelty, child abuse, etc., have absolute opinions--those things are revolting, but short of such extremes, many things are up to the people in each situation. I've seen women date men for 6 years and then find they are violent, a drug abuser you name it--the act of living together is not a panacea for the unknown in a mate, and not cohabitating doesn't make or break your relationship.... Yes, I feel some level of commitment should be present when making the decision to live together but hey--that's my view.

No one's choice is 'illogical' or 'wrong' or 'stupid.' Let's come back down to earth already.

Precisely what I've been saying, too.....that there is *no* absolute right answer.....that right/wrong is a very "individual thing".

I don't recall anyone saying anyone was stupid or illogical, though.....did I miss a post?

EDITED TO ADD: Oooooo, that's scary. I pushed submit, and there was a post nearly identical to mine from Mara. It's eerie how often that happens. Mara, *stop* reading over my shoulder already, huh? LOLOLOL

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 11/23/2004 8:46:56 PM
Author: aljdewey

That's really what it boils down to.....knowing that you can live happily with someone. Sometimes you can't, and it's no one's fault. Better to find that out before you marry than after. Life is just too short to squander trying to make square pegs fit into round holes. I just don't understand a thought process that says 'make a decision without fully knowing the implications, and if it turns out you made a bad choice, oh well.... live with it.'That just defies logic to me.

I understood this to mean, fully considering the context, that not living together is somehow illogical. Saying someone's choice not to live together "defies logic" is translated as "illogical."

I skimmed the 4 pages but I didn't find "stupid." I had thought someone else had used that word in reference to this issue. Perhaps I am mistaken or have threads confused. Regardless, overbearing opinions are peppering this thread and it's just gotten out of hand.

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Hi snlee:

I am all for living together before getting married. There are many social tendencies that people gravitate towards in making things work and trying to make things work. In my first marriage we did not live together, nor did I have much criteria set for myself in what a good relationship was hence It took me 3 years to figure out I was in a bad one.It took therapy and some self realization after the fact to figure out what was important to me and realizing it was ok that that some women were not going to fit that criteria. I think our species in general are problem solvers which can lead us to trying to figure out or fix problems which aren't ours to begin with. I am mainly referring to problems which might exist in a relationship which one partner realizes there are things that bother them about the other person. These things can be tweaked, but there are some major red flags which you can easily spot in the beggining of a relationship (living together) which you could not otherwise experience without living with that person.

I believe a sound relationship requires good fundamental values on your part (the criteria you set) and your willingness to follow your own guidelines you set in what makes you happy. There are little things in a relationship which couples can work out if your on the same page, but realize you and your feelings come first and that includes the other person putting you and your needs, wants, and feelings first. You will be putting yourself first by knowing what makes you happy. I am first to admit I have my downfalls, but Regina does a good job of keeping me in check and those expectations are mutual when it comes to her. It can be quite the balancing act, but know that part of that work can also be fun and it will help both you and your partner grow together, not apart.

I look back and realize I made some mistakes in life, but I also realize that much of my growth as a man and a loving partner has come from making those mistakes. Have a realistic outlook on the things that make you happy and at the same time be secure with yourself in knowing you can and will move on if that time ever should come.

We live in a society where sometimes rejection and failure is viewed as a weakness, but at these points in life is when you can gather the most strength in objectively realizing the other person either does or doesn't fit your needs. A strong sense of self has been very important for me in realizing what makes me happy. Living together for a while will give you a peak into some idiosecrecies which you might not be privied to before moving in.

I realize my current relationship is very loving and strong and can look back so far and see the most growth in times when things have been so hard. You know these things always involve money or sickness or being out of work, or disagreements. Family can be great and the problems I had with mine now and growing up Regina helps me deal with, but doesn't try to fix them herself. Remember you always have to be there for each other and you realize how strong your relationship really is when life deals you a bad hand and how the both of you can grow stonger together from it.

I hope you take this road and hope you find a little comfort in my long post

I wish you both the very best in health and happiness in whatever you decide to do..

 

[sxn675]

Back to the knowing thing, Mara was saying know 100%, I didn't interpret F&I's comment that way. I interpreted it as knowing enough to be comfortable to get married. I don't think you ever know anyone fully and I never posted that.

That said, I looked back at some of the posts and saw some opinions like (and I'm paraphrasing) "Any reasonable person would live with their partner" and "It's absolutely necessary" to live with your partner. I think there were overbearing posts on the other side too. That's different than posting what Josh did above which is that he's all for living together because it doesn't insult those who didn't. Yes, there are different opinions, but in a dichotomous situation where you either are for or against something and someone says something implying that people who didn't do what you did are illogical, unreasonable etc etc, it doesn't really make for a respectful conversation. Just something to keep in mind...

 

[Jennifer5973]

I really just give up here. My white flag is up--I just don't have the patience for it.

All I wanted to express (against my better judgement) was that I felt some of the opinions one way--or the other--were overbearng and bordering on insulting to those of the opposing view. To each his own in this very personal and sensitive matter.

Josh: You post is wonderfully introspective, and I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for how you've openly shared your feelings. I also respect your POV and choices, and am truly happy to read you've achieved such growth and happiness. Mazol tov!

But I don't understand how I am supposed to be helped by your thread or "comforted" by it. You have a right to whatever works for you, as I do for me. I am happy with my choices and they've worked out beautifully for me as well...

Regardless, thanks for the well-meaning intentions, as I have no doubt that's what they are.

Edited: hey Josh--do you think I am the original poster and/or someone facing this choice? If so, now I get it!--BUT I have been married for 8 years (after living with DH for 2.5)! Sorry for any confusion (if that's what this is)...Who's on first, people?

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Jennifer...

The post above was for snlee not you sweety...I edited the name...

I often work the threads in which I read the first posters comment or question and then reply. I then go back and read everybody else's responses...

My intent was to solely help snlee in sharing my own persective on how I have made things work or not work in my life. Sharing seems to help us all grow...

Warm Regards-Josh

 

[Jennifer5973]

lol, Josh.

Now I get it!

And kudos again for expressing your opinion so eloquently.

 

[Mara]

Personally, I find it 'absolutely necessary' to live with a mate before you get married. Obviously that's my opinion. The question WAS 'how do you feel' about it. As I also noted, I have good friends who didn't get married, lived together for many years & have kids etc..and others who never lived together before getting married, as well as those who did live together and get married AND those who lived together and didn't. In the end, everyone does what they feel is best and that is totally their decision to make. Just because I feel it's necessary for myself, doesn't mean that everyone has to do it that way. I also feel that if you can't really be passionate behind an opinion or a belief...why express it?

Seems like there is alot of miscommunication, light-reading, etc etc happening in this thread. I personally don't see why there is so much sensitivity. I don't think one person is saying that if you don't do it their way, you are just horribly wrong. Obviously everyone is going to have their own opinion, as always, we do not all have to agree and as always, we all don't.

I have seen threads get 'out of hand' on Pscope before and this is not even remotely close. I personally love to debate and discuss varying opinions. If someone wants to argue their point because they feel passionately about it, they have that right to debate it with any other poster. I don't see any lack of respect in this thread at all, merely people just discussing why or why not, and I don't think that should be tempered.

My two cents.

font>

 

[Deputy74]

To each their own really. I am currently living with my fiance. We were together 6 months before I moved in. I spent most of my time at his place and my apt lease was coming up for reneweal so I asked how he felt about me living with him officially instead of me paying for an apt that I spent like 5% of my time at. So I moved in. We''ve been together for 2 years and just bought a house together. He proposed in Sept and our 2 year anniv. was in Oct. And I want to wait until 2006 to get married so we can be completely debt free.

And I''ve always gone with the old saying...you don''t buy the car without test driving it first. And yes I know the other one...Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. My fiance was married before and didn''t live with her long enough to find out all her flaws...she didn''t do house work, didnt pick up after herself, didn''t understand the concept of money, racked up credit card bills (daddy always bailed her out) and um didnt like sex too much either. If he would have known all this before, he wouldnt have married her.

I figure if you''re gonna be with someone for the rest of your life, you might want to get to know them real well before you make that committment. Find out whether you can tolerate all their little odd habits. Find out who the REALLY are besides that facade that some put up.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/24/2004 11

3:40 PM
Author: Jennifer5973

Date: 11/23/2004 8:46:56 PM
Author: aljdewey

That''s really what it boils down to.....knowing that you can live happily with someone. Sometimes you can''t, and it''s no one''s fault. Better to find that out before you marry than after. Life is just too short to squander trying to make square pegs fit into round holes. I just don''t understand a thought process that says ''make a decision without fully knowing the implications, and if it turns out you made a bad choice, oh well.... live with it.''That just defies logic to me.

I understood this to mean, fully considering the context, that not living together is somehow illogical. Saying someone''s choice not to live together ''defies logic'' is translated as ''illogical.''

I skimmed the 4 pages but I didn''t find ''stupid.'' I had thought someone else had used that word in reference to this issue. Perhaps I am mistaken or have threads confused. Regardless, overbearing opinions are peppering this thread and it''s just gotten out of hand.

It would be more enlightening if you''d read the entire thing in context.

1. I said SOME people feel the need for more information about daily living habits than others do. Now read this carefully: for *THOSE* people......not ALL people, Jennifer, but for *those* people......it doesn''t make sense to say to *that* group of people "you shouldn''t need to live with someone before marriage in order to know them....you should already know them."

2. When I said, "That just defies logic", you clearly overlooked the key phrase following it....."TO ME". Further, I didn''t say folks who don''t live together are illogical. What I said was "SOME people" (notice how that phrase keeps popping up......SOME, not all) feel as though they need to live together to know one another more fully. If that''s what it takes for THEM to make good choices, then that''s what it takes. It is illogical TO ME to say to THAT group of people "well, you shouldn''t have to live with someone before marriage in order to know them". If they didn''t feel it was important or needed, they wouldn''t feel compelled to do so.

As for overbearing opinions, people here have historically been quite vocal and passionate about their opinions, and if you find that overbearing, perhaps this isn''t the format for you. If it''s gotten "out of hand for you", the simple solution is to abstain from participating. No one is forcing you to read it.

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 11/25/2004 9:27:19 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 11/24/2004 11

3:40 PM
Author: Jennifer5973

Date: 11/23/2004 8:46:56 PM
Author: aljdewey

That's really what it boils down to.....knowing that you can live happily with someone. Sometimes you can't, and it's no one's fault. Better to find that out before you marry than after. Life is just too short to squander trying to make square pegs fit into round holes. I just don't understand a thought process that says 'make a decision without fully knowing the implications, and if it turns out you made a bad choice, oh well.... live with it.'That just defies logic to me.

I understood this to mean, fully considering the context, that not living together is somehow illogical. Saying someone's choice not to live together 'defies logic' is translated as 'illogical.'

I skimmed the 4 pages but I didn't find 'stupid.' I had thought someone else had used that word in reference to this issue. Perhaps I am mistaken or have threads confused. Regardless, overbearing opinions are peppering this thread and it's just gotten out of hand.

It would be more enlightening if you'd read the entire thing in context.

1. I said SOME people feel the need for more information about daily living habits than others do. Now read this carefully: for *THOSE* people......not ALL people, Jennifer, but for *those* people......it doesn't make sense to say to *that* group of people 'you shouldn't need to live with someone before marriage in order to know them....you should already know them.'

2. When I said, 'That just defies logic', you clearly overlooked the key phrase following it.....'TO ME'. Further, I didn't say folks who don't live together are illogical. What I said was 'SOME people' (notice how that phrase keeps popping up......SOME, not all) feel as though they need to live together to know one another more fully. If that's what it takes for THEM to make good choices, then that's what it takes. It is illogical TO ME to say to THAT group of people 'well, you shouldn't have to live with someone before marriage in order to know them'. If they didn't feel it was important or needed, they wouldn't feel compelled to do so.

As for overbearing opinions, people here have historically been quite vocal and passionate about their opinions, and if you find that overbearing, perhaps this isn't the format for you. If it's gotten 'out of hand for you', the simple solution is to abstain from participating. No one is forcing you to read it.

That's some spin. Do you work in marketing? PR?

Look, we agree to disagree. I'm not getting into this with you. I could go on and on about how "to me" doesn't qualify anything, but is it really that important? I can take passionate opinions with the best of them but the horse is not only dead but 10 feet beneath the surface at this point in this topic.

Have a great holiday and enjoy your day. I have to go assemble my hors d'oeuvres.