Living together before marriage

[galeteia]

Date: 12/10/2006 7:52:22 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 12/10/2006 7:36:02 PM

Author: Galateia

Date: 12/10/2006 9:25:02 AM

Author: ladykemma

...runs and gets popcorn.....

*offers to swap some twizzlers for a handful of LK''s popcorn*

.... decides the discussion is on the verge of becoming volatile... sits quietly on the couch next to LK and Galateia. Chocolate pudding, anyone?....

*M*

*reads certain posts with bulging eyes*

*facepalms*

*silently hands poptart the plate of lemon pie* Who needs tv, eh?

 

[biblobaggins23]

yeah, i agree sex is really important for a long-term, romantic relationship. obviously, i want to be good in bed for my partner and satisfy hiim. we haven''t had sex in our relationship, but we have discussed this in martial counseling and we are both secure enough to know even without sex that it will be good because we love each other and we are secure in our relationship. some people are like that.

i know there are sensitive people on the board and i''m not saying sex before marriage is bad and that people who have it before marriage are insecure.

 

[poptart]

Date: 12/10/2006 9:11:50 PM
Author: Galateia

Date: 12/10/2006 7:52:22 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 12/10/2006 7:36:02 PM

Author: Galateia

Date: 12/10/2006 9:25:02 AM

Author: ladykemma

...runs and gets popcorn.....

*offers to swap some twizzlers for a handful of LK''s popcorn*

.... decides the discussion is on the verge of becoming volatile... sits quietly on the couch next to LK and Galateia. Chocolate pudding, anyone?....

*M*

*reads certain posts with bulging eyes*

*facepalms*

*silently hands poptart the plate of lemon pie* Who needs tv, eh?

HAHAHA... I just got a visual of the bulging eyes. LOVE IT! TV is overrated, for sure. * takes a big forkful of pie and proceeds to stuff face... refreshing!*

*M*

 

[anchor31]

I''m definitely hungry for some of that lemon pie... Sheesh.

 

[Blenheim]

Date: 12/10/2006 8:14:01 PM
Author: novia

i lived with my husband before we were married and know it was absolutely the right decision for us. we were 1000% committed to each other the day we moved in together and remained just as committed once we exchanged vows. it was not a ''trial marriage''. it was simply the first step in our becoming a family. living together was not a difficult adjustment for us, nor would it have been difficult if we had waited.

I just wanted to say "ditto". We''re not having a trial marriage to make sure that we can deal with each other''s dirty socks; we''re just taking our first step in forming a committed family. (And luckily, we have a wonderful reverend can respect that decision instead of judging us for living in sin.)

Now who''s making the lemon pie?

 

[San Diego Bride]

i went with junior mints myself. yes, it''s a bit unconventional for pricescope, but they''re yummy and refreshing.

 

[ladykemma]

i wanted to address the issue of unconditional love - it's a nice idea that doesn't work.

we did not live together before marriage. during our first year together, my hubby had an undisclosed addiction (edited to add : psychiatric condition) that was ruining his life, and very nearly ruined mine. we, he, and I spent a very tough first year in therapy, learning how to deal with ourselves, each other, and this addiction. he was a major league addict and i was a black belt codependent/controller. we didn't know this about ourselves-- we had been raised this way. family of origin stuff.

the therapist also taught us how to be married. both of us had weird ideas of marriage from our families of origin. she taught us how to disagree, to leave each other alone, give space, do things togther, and she grew us up.

our marriage IS conditional, based on therapy agreements. Every friday we recommit to our marriage. Next friday he may decide to leave. doubtful but possible.

His bottom line is that if i turn into super spy, mommy, ninja codependent/controller, he wiil separate for his sanity and we meet in the therapists office.

my bottom line is if his addiction resurfaces, and he endangers my life, health, safety, or sanity, i will separate and meet in the therapists office. I actually had to do this in the 5th year of marriage. after I left, he checked himself into a psychiatric hospital.

and you know what, out marriage is TIGHT, really tight. thank god for magnificent counseling.

If we had lived togther i would have said, F*&^ it, I'm outta here. And would have never faced my own issues. Marriage forced me to grow up, suck it up and deal. finally deal.

 

[psaddict]

Wow! This turned into a huge debate. Thanks for the links to previous posts on the topic that a couple of you posted. After stumbling across a couple of older threads that were talking about people being more likely to divorce if they lived together, I did a search and didn't find anything talking further about this issue or about how silly those statistics were, so sorry if I brought up a topic that's already been beaten to death.

As for my friend who moved out because of the "messy" boyfriend... I realized that might come across as silly/fickle of her, it might sound like he left a little mess here and there and she dumped him because of it. The reality was, her boyfriend had grown up in a household where his mother did everything-- cooking, laundry, cleaning, his dad did none of that. So, when he moved in with my friend, it seemed as though he just assumed the male/female roles would be the same with his girlfriend as they had been for his parents. She talked about it to him, and gave him many chances to change, but it was just impossible for him to do for some reason. Some women may be ok with this, and may simply hire a maid (if they can afford it) to try to deal with the problem. But I'm like my friend-- it is VERY important to me to raise children in a household where the mother and father share the household duties EQUALLY. I don't want my kids to have any feelings that household tasks and cooking are a woman's work. And hiring a part time maid wouldn't fix the problem. So for me, a "messy husband" who doesn't help with the cooking, cleaning and laundry on a 50/50 basis is someone I wouldn't want to marry! I want my kids to see us cooking together, see us folding laundry together, and NOT watch as I iron his shirts for him, cook every night and pick up his dirty socks for him! Just my opinion on something I find really important.

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:32:19 PM
Author: psaddict
Wow! This turned into a huge debate. Thanks for the links to previous posts on the topic that a couple of you posted. After stumbling across a couple of older threads that were talking about people being more likely to divorce if they lived together, I did a search and didn''t find anything talking further about this issue or about how silly those statistics were, so sorry if I brought up a topic that''s already been beaten to death.

As for my friend who moved out because of the ''messy'' boyfriend... I realized that might come across as silly/fickle of her, it might sound like he left a little mess here and there and she dumped him because of it. The reality was, her boyfriend had grown up in a household where his mother did everything-- cooking, laundry, cleaning, his dad did none of that. So, when he moved in with my friend, it seemed as though he just assumed the male/female roles would be the same with his girlfriend as they had been for his parents. She talked about it to him, and gave him many chances to change, but it was just impossible for him to do for some reason. Some women may be ok with this, and may simply hire a maid (if they can afford it) to try to deal with the problem. But I''m like my friend-- it is VERY important to me to raise children in a household where the mother and father share the household duties EQUALLY. I don''t want my kids to have any feelings that household tasks and cooking are a woman''s work. And hiring a part time maid wouldn''t fix the problem. So for me, a ''messy husband'' who doesn''t help with the cooking, cleaning and laundry on a 50/50 basis is someone I wouldn''t want to marry! I want my kids to see us cooking together, see us folding laundry together, and NOT watch as I iron his shirts for him, cook every night and pick up his dirty socks for him! Just my opinion on something I find really important.

actually this is a huge, deep issue requiring training and intervention.

 

[larussel03]

Sorry to interrupt--

What does "lemon pie" mean???

 

[poptart]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:43:18 PM
Author: *~Sweetpea~*
Sorry to interrupt--

What does ''lemon pie'' mean???

um.. i must be dumb... i thought it was lemon pie. like, pie made with lemons. i don''t know now!

*M*

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:43:18 PM
Author: *~Sweetpea~*
Sorry to interrupt--

What does ''lemon pie'' mean???

There was a thread a while back where lemon pie analogy was used in a diamond color thread. It''s been since used to diffuse tension on tense threads...

 

[mia15]

Mmm, lemon pie, apple pie, twizzlers...all sounds so good!

Bilbo, it's totally okay that you feel that living together before marriage leads to divorce. I see couples doing things all the time that I fear will lead to a spectacular divorce, but guess what? I don't cite my opinion as prophecy.

No one is attacking your opinion. If anything, it's your sources I find questionable. By all means, quote articles, but quote them objectively. Don't go out looking for sources that'll back you up, without researching some opposing views.
I think you'll find that this is not a crowd to be swayed by a sentence starting, "research says..." I generally want to know what research, conducted how, and by whom.
When other members have bothered to quote peer-reviewed journals, it's a little annoying (to me, personally) to be told that my marriage will fail because "countless articles" and USA Today said so.

It's highly offensive to tell people that their marriages are doomed, or will never happen by whatever %, esp. based on biased research. Those of us who are annoyed are not necessarily attacking your Christian values.

 

[RoseAngel04]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:30:20 PM
Author: ladykemma
i wanted to address the issue of unconditional love - it''s a nice idea that doesn''t work.

we did not live together before marriage. during our first year together, my hubby had an undisclosed addiction that was ruining his life, and very nearly ruined mine. we, he, and I spent a very tough first year in therapy, learning how to deal with ourselves, each other, and this addiction. he was a major league addict and i was a black belt codependent/controller. we didn''t know this about ourselves-- we had been raised this way. family of origin stuff.

the therapist also taught us how to be married. both of us had weird ideas of marriage from our families of origin. she taught us how to disagree, to leave each other alone, give space, do things togther, and she grew us up.

our marriage IS conditional, based on therapy agreements. Every friday we recommit to our marriage. Next friday he may decide to leave. doubtful but possible.

His bottom line is that if i turn into super spy, mommy, ninja codependent/controller, he wiil separate for his sanity and we meet in the therapists office.

my bottom line is if his addiction resurfaces, and he endangers my life, health, safety, or sanity, i will separate and meet in the therapists office. I actually had to do this in the 5th year of marriage. after I left, he checked himself into a psychiatric hospital.

and you know what, out marriage is TIGHT, really tight. thank god for magnificent counseling.

If we had lived togther i would have said, F*&^ it, I''m outta here. And would have never faced my own issues. Marriage forced me to grow up, suck it up and deal. finally deal.

I commend you for staying and working on and for your marriage! You have a great testimony and I think/hope that I''d do the same to save my marriage. I know some or maybe most would have been long gone in your shoes. I do have a question though. So, if your husband were to go back to the addiction or Friday want to leave you that would make you no longer love him? I''m just trying to understand how you said ya''ll love is conditional. I''m genuinly curious, not trying to start anything...

 

[poptart]

Thanks TG, good to know!

*M*

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:45:38 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 12/10/2006 10:43:18 PM
Author: *~Sweetpea~*
Sorry to interrupt--

What does ''lemon pie'' mean???

um.. i must be dumb... i thought it was lemon pie. like, pie made with lemons. i don''t know now!

*M*

go back to the second post. i knew this was going to get heated so I stayed out of it and sat and watched, with a comment about getting some popcorn, like watching a movie. this started a subthread from all the observers to this lively debate.

 

[larussel03]

...Annnnnnnnnd, to give my .02 on the subject, although it'll likely be redundant...

FI and I live together. We have been living together for about a year and a half and it's reconfirmed that we communicate well, can live together, and can live with each other's quirks (aside from the obvious "we're in love" stuff haha).

We moved in together after about 4 years of dating and we were sick of travelling at least 1 hour (at times 2) between years 3 and 4 of dating, and it actually was not our first choice. We both were set to move in with friends, but their situations changed so that they could not move out (both went back to school) and we decided to move in together based on the fact that it was HARD living with our parents and we'd be great roomies! And it's worked out wonderfully ever since.

So our moving in together was not totally planned, but it has worked out for the best and was the best thing for us to do given where we were

And, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

 

[larussel03]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:47:07 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 12/10/2006 10:43:18 PM
Author: *~Sweetpea~*
Sorry to interrupt--

What does ''lemon pie'' mean???

There was a thread a while back where lemon pie analogy was used in a diamond color thread. It''s been since used to diffuse tension on tense threads...

Ahhh, I had a feeling that was what it refered to, but I wasn''t positive....

 

[poptart]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:48:28 PM
Author: ladykemma

Date: 12/10/2006 10:45:38 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 12/10/2006 10:43:18 PM
Author: *~Sweetpea~*
Sorry to interrupt--

What does ''lemon pie'' mean???

um.. i must be dumb... i thought it was lemon pie. like, pie made with lemons. i don''t know now!

*M*

go back to the second post. i knew this was going to get heated so I stayed out of it and sat and watched, with a comment about getting some popcorn, like watching a movie. this started a subthread from all the observers to this lively debate.

I knew the food was used to diffuse the tension... i just didn''t know that the term lemon pie had been used before in previous threads.

*M*

 

[Kit]

I just wanted to say,

Lady K, WOW. I am impressed and inspired by your story. Thank you for sharing.

-Kit

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:47:28 PM
Author: RoseAngel04

Date: 12/10/2006 10:30:20 PM
Author: ladykemma
i wanted to address the issue of unconditional love - it's a nice idea that doesn't work.

we did not live together before marriage. during our first year together, my hubby had an undisclosed addiction that was ruining his life, and very nearly ruined mine. we, he, and I spent a very tough first year in therapy, learning how to deal with ourselves, each other, and this addiction. he was a major league addict and i was a black belt codependent/controller. we didn't know this about ourselves-- we had been raised this way. family of origin stuff.

the therapist also taught us how to be married. both of us had weird ideas of marriage from our families of origin. she taught us how to disagree, to leave each other alone, give space, do things togther, and she grew us up.

our marriage IS conditional, based on therapy agreements. Every friday we recommit to our marriage. Next friday he may decide to leave. doubtful but possible.

His bottom line is that if i turn into super spy, mommy, ninja codependent/controller, he wiil separate for his sanity and we meet in the therapists office.

my bottom line is if his addiction resurfaces, and he endangers my life, health, safety, or sanity, i will separate and meet in the therapists office. I actually had to do this in the 5th year of marriage. after I left, he checked himself into a psychiatric hospital.

and you know what, out marriage is TIGHT, really tight. thank god for magnificent counseling.

If we had lived togther i would have said, F*&^ it, I'm outta here. And would have never faced my own issues. Marriage forced me to grow up, suck it up and deal. finally deal.

I commend you for staying and working on and for your marriage! You have a great testimony and I think/hope that I'd do the same to save my marriage. I know some or maybe most would have been long gone in your shoes. I do have a question though. So, if your husband were to go back to the addiction or Friday want to leave you that would make you no longer love him? I'm just trying to understand how you said ya'll love is conditional. I'm genuinly curious, not trying to start anything...

i still love him, but have to leave, or his addiction/psychiatric condition will ruin me again. I guess i need to restate - our MARRAGE is conditional.

 

[Blenheim]

SweetPea, or anyone else, here''s the original thread with the lemon pie.

 

[RoseAngel04]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:51:05 PM
Author: ladykemma

Date: 12/10/2006 10:47:28 PM
Author: RoseAngel04

Date: 12/10/2006 10:30:20 PM
Author: ladykemma
i wanted to address the issue of unconditional love - it''s a nice idea that doesn''t work.

we did not live together before marriage. during our first year together, my hubby had an undisclosed addiction that was ruining his life, and very nearly ruined mine. we, he, and I spent a very tough first year in therapy, learning how to deal with ourselves, each other, and this addiction. he was a major league addict and i was a black belt codependent/controller. we didn''t know this about ourselves-- we had been raised this way. family of origin stuff.

the therapist also taught us how to be married. both of us had weird ideas of marriage from our families of origin. she taught us how to disagree, to leave each other alone, give space, do things togther, and she grew us up.

our marriage IS conditional, based on therapy agreements. Every friday we recommit to our marriage. Next friday he may decide to leave. doubtful but possible.

His bottom line is that if i turn into super spy, mommy, ninja codependent/controller, he wiil separate for his sanity and we meet in the therapists office.

my bottom line is if his addiction resurfaces, and he endangers my life, health, safety, or sanity, i will separate and meet in the therapists office. I actually had to do this in the 5th year of marriage. after I left, he checked himself into a psychiatric hospital.

and you know what, out marriage is TIGHT, really tight. thank god for magnificent counseling.

If we had lived togther i would have said, F*&^ it, I''m outta here. And would have never faced my own issues. Marriage forced me to grow up, suck it up and deal. finally deal.

I commend you for staying and working on and for your marriage! You have a great testimony and I think/hope that I''d do the same to save my marriage. I know some or maybe most would have been long gone in your shoes. I do have a question though. So, if your husband were to go back to the addiction or Friday want to leave you that would make you no longer love him? I''m just trying to understand how you said ya''ll love is conditional. I''m genuinly curious, not trying to start anything...

i still love him, but have to leave, or his addiction/psychiatric condition will ruin me again. I guess i need to restate - our MARRAGE is conditional.

Gotcha...thanks for clarifying!

 

[KimberlyH]

Quote from bibloaggins on page one of this thread:

"i know that if i lived with my fiance before we got married, and he saw how i lived, he would not want to marry me. "

In light of the discussion being had I find this to be very telling and interesting.

I don''t like pie, unless it''s cococut cream. I''ll have a slice of that please.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:51:05 PM
Author: ladykemma
i still love him, but have to leave, or his addiction/psychiatric condition will ruin me again. I guess i need to restate - our MARRAGE is conditional.

Well, I think it''s commendable how far you and your husband have come.

The heart doesn''t heal easily...so I can understand when women still say they love their cheating husbands, etc etc. But my marriage is definitely conditional in that regard.

 

[TravelingGal]

don''t like pie? sacrilege! I love pie, it''s my weakness. Actually it''s pie crust I love. I wonder if there is pie out there where the filling has heaps of pie crust mixed in?

 

[poptart]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:54:28 PM
Author: KimberlyH
Quote from bibloaggins on page one of this thread:

''i know that if i lived with my fiance before we got married, and he saw how i lived, he would not want to marry me. ''

In light of the discussion being had I find this to be very telling and interesting.

I don''t like pie, unless it''s cococut cream. I''ll have a slice of that please.

Totally off subject... but coconut cream pie is my favorite! I want some now.... I am not much of a fan of pie either, usually.

*M*

 

[larussel03]

Date: 12/10/2006 11:01:03 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 12/10/2006 10:54:28 PM
Author: KimberlyH
Quote from bibloaggins on page one of this thread:

''i know that if i lived with my fiance before we got married, and he saw how i lived, he would not want to marry me. ''

In light of the discussion being had I find this to be very telling and interesting.

I don''t like pie, unless it''s cococut cream. I''ll have a slice of that please.

Totally off subject... but coconut cream pie is my favorite! I want some now.... I am not much of a fan of pie either, usually.

*M*

I don''t really like pie either, but I LOVE strawberry shortcake!!!

 

[RoseAngel04]

ditto for not really into pie with the exception of pecan and my FI''s families reciepe for chocolate pie! MMMMM good!

 

[galeteia]

Date: 12/10/2006 10:58:00 PM
Author: TravelingGal
don''t like pie? sacrilege! I love pie, it''s my weakness. Actually it''s pie crust I love. I wonder if there is pie out there where the filling has heaps of pie crust mixed in?

What about making a pie in the style of lasagna? Cook them separately, maybe, to ensure flaky crusts and then just assemble it immediately prior to serving? You could do it ''a la mode'' and use the layer of ice cream to ''stick'' the layers together. Just an idea.