Lynnie...

[Octavia]

I just realized that you had responded a long time ago to my question about venues in another thread. I was away for a few days and completely lost track of it, so I hope you didn''t think I was ignoring you!

We''re in Center City, but the venues we''re considering are mostly in the Media/Kennett Square area and on the western Main Line. FI and I both want a venue that''s open, grassy, and green, especially since we live in the concrete jungle all the rest of the time. The date will be one of the Sundays in mid-October, but we haven''t officially set the date yet.

It''s so funny that you mention loving the Kimmel. When I jokingly told FI we could get married there, he gave me this face

because our lives are a bit too entwined with that building to seriously consider a wedding there. I have to say, though, that you shouldn''t be too sad about not having your reception there. It''s overpriced, and from long experience I can honestly say that the service is so-so and the food isn''t as good as the service (as in, steaks ordered medium range from hockey puck to still mooing -- at the same table). Plus, the heating and cooling systems are still touch-and-go...

I think my biggest concern (after managing to set a date) is going to be the photographer, I''ve been trolling area wedding photographers'' websites and I haven''t yet found one that jumps out at me. Much less one in our price range.

Anyway, good luck with the planning! I''m interested to see which venue you end up choosing, I''ve heard decent things about La Luna but I haven''t looked into it myself since we''re looking in the opposite geographical direction from there. It''s nice to see another Philly bride on here

 

[enbcfsobe]

didn''t see the earlier thread about the kimmel, but after looking into it for our wedding i would agree. plus, their coordinator was among the worst at getting back to us -- it took over 2 weeks just to set up an appointment!! while i like it for concerts, there were clearly some design/engineering things that just weren''t considered in terms of hosting events, so each of the spaces left us with the feeling of this could be great but...
if you post a link to the earlier thread i''m happy to share our venue-searching experiences in center city.

 

[Octavia]

Enbcfsobe, you're getting married right in the city, am I correct? I had thought about it for the convenience factor but I think we're still going to do suburbs instead. The rooftop garden at the Kimmel used to be wonderful for smaller functions (except for the heating/air conditioning not being reliable) but now that Symphony House is up, there's no view anymore.

Lynnie had posted about her possible venues here. She said she's mainly looking in the Northeast.

I can't wait to start planning for real, but unfortunately I don't have time to do much more than skim online and get ideas until finals and the law review write-on competition is over. But this summer...Philly wedding vendors, watch out!

ETA: I looove your avatar kitty!

 

[enbcfsobe]

we are getting married in the city. we are doing it in the planetarium at the franklin institute, so we are making it a bit of an outdoors-inside kind of thing. we have so many out of town guests and we really wanted to show off the city to them, since the whole thing is inconvenient regardless of where we have it. we only looked at public spaces -- museums, the library, the kimmel. we tried to get the reception room in city hall but due to the turnover of the administration this year they weren''t taking any reservations. boo. we thought it would be hysterical to tell people we''re getting married in city hall. oh, well. we also seriously considered temple, but you have to use their aramark catering people. yuck. beyond the symphony house monstrosity, we were not keen on the idea of having to keep the music down or work around those awful climate-control things in the garden. so disappointing. our other top choice was the seaport museum. their staff was super-helpful and the space was really unique and flexible. it is right on the river. i''ve heard they''ll negotiate rental prices, though we didn''t get that far with them.

sounds like you''re a 1L -- tough year! write-on is a pain, but from the perspective of someone who has both written and judged write-on submissions, i''m not sure which is worse!! if you have some time now, it might be a good idea to start looking at vendors before you get too busy with finals and write-on, because it seems like the vendors are much busier and more difficult to track down in the spring and summer because they start doing a lot of weddings. i know its hard to find time, but it may be worth it to do now when they are more available.

I don''t have much info on venues in the northeast/suburbs. i went to a wedding at Penn Ryn years ago and loved it -- the have a pretty spot right on the river for the ceremony, and the facility was spacious. We also went to one at Glen Cairn recently in Bryn Athyn. The setting was beautiful, but I was not at all a fan of the fact that guests are seated in different separate rooms. That was isolating and weird to me. I think the setup at Avelthorpe in Abington is similar, but I''m not sure. The grounds are really beautiful at both, though. Morris Arboretum in Mount Airy seems like it would be a great place, and Curtis Arboretum in Wyncote is beautiful as well, though it is fairly small. I am not a fan of event-factory type places like Talamore and Celebrations -- I think they feel fake and commercial, though some folks like them.

 

[Octavia]

Haha, I am a 1L. Sigh. And I''m pretty sure that nobody purely grades on, although grades are factored in along with writing score when they decide who gets on law review and the other journals, so I guess it''s sort of a rite of passage to do the write-on.

The planetarium sounds like an awesome place for a wedding! I wouldn''t have ever thought of something like that, how creative of you

I thought about the Independence Seaport, it was actually one of the few city venues I put on my list but thought it was a bit out of budget. It''s interesting that they may negotiate! I think that FI and I are pretty set on someplace with a lot of lush, open space, though. He likes the Tyler Arboretum in Media, which I also like although I''m partial to a couple of other places, including the Audubon Center. But this is prior to actually going to visit any of them, so we''ll see what we think afterward! I definitely don''t want to break up the guests among different rooms, which is why I ruled out a lot of the historic estates in the area.

Have any of the weddings you''ve been to had Jeffrey Miller as a caterer? He''s the exclusive caterer at Tyler Arboretum, and seems pretty expensive. I''ve heard mixed reviews, too. I think we''re going to a wedding this summer that he''s the caterer for but we''ll hopefully have booked the venue before then.

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences, I''m feeling a little lost with all this right now and I''ve yet to attend a wedding around here so I really have nothing to go on. I''m sure it will come together once we really start working on it, though. Please let me know anything else you think could be helpful, I''m always glad to take advice!

 

[enbcfsobe]

i''m pretty sure grading on was not an option for us -- i think it was entirely based on writing. which made grading the papers really nerve wracking because you knew you could make or break it for an (anonymous) competitor (on our law review the editorial board grades the papers, and each paper is read by a bunch of people). i''m guessing you''re at penn?
definitely reserve judgment until you see places in person. you may be surprised by what you like/don''t like. i can''t help you on jeffery miller. i''ve never heard of him. the knot board for philly is somewhat helpful, though it is occasionally snarky, the larger issue with it is that only a tiny percent of the posts seem to be about wedding stuff at all -- apparently everyone just sits at their computers and updates each other on what they had for breakfast and whatnot. the search feature seriously sucks, so it is really only helpful if you have a direct question about a specific vendor or want recommendations for a something specific (ie: affordable florist in center city). if you liked Tyler, maybe look at Morris arboretum also. Its not quite in the suburbs, and they seemed to have a pretty good system for tents and such to accomodate larger crowds. Depending on how large you are thinking, Curtis Arboretum is really beautiful and I think the rental is relatively reasonable from what I recall. Seated dinner I would guess is a max of 70 without a dance floor, though they may let you do a tent adjoining the building on the terrace. It wouldn''t be so much of a separate room thing because they have 3 or 4 sets of big french doors that open onto the terrace. I think you can bring in whatever caterer you want.
as for the seaport museum, definitely talk to them if you''re interested. they have frog commisary for catering, and at that venue you can buy your own alcohol, so no markup, and their prices are much more reasonable. because the rental fees at the franklin institute are lower, the cost of catering (which supposedly includes space rental) is more expensive, also more pricey because it includes alcohol with their markup b/c the museum has a license. the seaport museum had a major financial fiasco over the past few years where its president stole a bunch of money (he''s in jail now, i''m pretty sure), so the word on the street is that they are willing to negotiate because any revenue for a rental night is better than none. they have a new president and seem to be doing well, so i wouldn''t worry about them closing, but it puts you in a better position to negotiate with them. their events coordinating staff also was by far the nicest, most organized and most confidence-inspiring of everyone we met with. and they have lots of outdoor space for ceremony. not large green swaths, but the backdrop of the river and the ships is pretty darn cool. its worth it to go meet with them even just to take a look around the museum if you haven''t been. it is really cool, and especially on the weekends they have volunteers building real boats in their workshop by hand!
I will try to think of other ideas and tips. As you get closer, feel free to shout me out on here if you have questions and I''ll try to respond!
Good luck finishing your 1L year!

 

[Octavia]

I remember the Seaport Museum scandal, things were definitely dicey for awhile. Last time we were wandering around down there, I scoped out the outdoor portion of the event spaces and I''m sure it would be beautiful, I''m just not sure I could get FI to go for it. But he wants to go see the museum part one of these days (he loves sailing and old ships and stuff), so maybe he''ll change his mind. I do love the Brandywine Valley area, though, so I''m kind of holding out for some of the venues down that way.

Morris Arboretum looks wonderful, but for a variety of reasons we''re going to have to do a Sunday late morning/early afternoon wedding and they only allow evening functions. Curtis Arboretum looks like a good place to add to our list, though. Thank you for mentioning it, I didn''t know about it before!

I don''t have the patience for The Knot boards, they''re so poorly set up and the people annoy me to no end. Actually, the whole site seems awfully difficult to slog through. I''ll probably suck it up eventually, but for now I''ve been avoiding it as much as possible. I think that''s where I had read the mixed reviews of Jeffrey Miller, but it was quite awhile ago.

I''m not at Penn...they saved me $100K+ with a single little "no," and since I''m less interested in big law firms than I am in government/public service work, I''m pretty glad that I''m not going to have so much debt. Things happen for a reason, and so far I''m very happy trekking up to North Philly every day

Thanks for the luck...I''m going to need it! And best of luck to you with the rest of your planning!

 

[enbcfsobe]

Not a lot of people know about Curtis unless they are from that area. I''m sure you''ll find something that works for both you and FI -- there are lots of options!
I saved lots of money on law school for the same reason -- i am a veteran of many subway and train rides to north philly as well. from what i remember on ed board we didn''t even see grades for law review candidates, so i don''t know that grading on actually is an option, but maybe they''ve changed the rules. i''m doing the big firm thing now, but i''m looking at moving to government or public service asap. i''m pretty burnt out already. i''m happy to offer wedding and school advice as needed (for whatever that is worth).

 

[Octavia]

Grading on isn''t an option, but they weight grades 60% and writing sample 40% when deciding who gets Law Review, except a few people who get on by writing score exclusively. This may be a fairly new policy. though, I''m not sure. Out of curiosity, do you ever come to student/alum panels or events? It would be funny if I''ve seen you without ever knowing it!

Thanks for the offer of help, I may take you up on it (actually, I think I have already!). I''m also interested to hear what you decide to do when you leave the big firm life

 

[enbcfsobe]

no, you haven''t seen me -- i haven''t been back since judging moot court last winter. maybe i just don''t remember clearly what the write-on requirements were. i suppose i may have blocked much of that first year!

 

[Lynnie]

OMG I feel soo bad about not responding!! I have been so busy with all this wedding stuff, checking out reception sites, engagement party, etc... I haven''t even been able to check out PS until NOW (2am Monday night!) So Octavia, I apologize -
Yeah, about the Kimmel - I emailed them for SH*** and giggles... $3K for the rental alone PLUS 100-150pp PLUS $12 per parking space - yeah right! It makes me feel better knowing the food/service are sub-par!

About La Luna - I visited it Friday - the price is reasonable $69pp + tax and tip, plus a $1500 room fee (because I can''t guarantee 150 people). The place is very pretty - parque flooring, nice high ceilings. However, these are the things I didnt like about it:
-Buy your own liquor (which is fine) except they will serve "mixed drinks in fine-grade plastic cups" <----- WHAT IS THAT? That quote is directly from the info sheet I got from them.
-When asked about tastings (food is VERY important to us), the guy said "we do 2 tastings a year - one in August, one in January. If you really want to see what the food is like beforehand, I suggest you visit the chef''s restaurant".

I also visited the Cottage Green Inn on Ashton Rd (near Holme Circle). They have a website with a virtual tour, but they have very recently remodeled (the virtual tour makes it look like a funeral home!) Their price is 74pp + tax and tip, and includes a videographer, a DJ, AND a limo for 3 hours. Includes 5hr open bar, and nice menu choices like crab-stuffed flounder and prime rib (no xtra $). This place is at the top of the list so far... The lady was nice and professional, let me and the FI walk around ALONE (I hate it when people try to sell, sell, sell), told us we could come in for a tasting whenever we wanted to, just let them know. We have our choice of 2 rooms, no room fee, even though we only expect 100-110 guests. the only negative IMO is the ceilings aren''t very high (I know this is being picky).
Visited Romano''s today... very reasonable prices 65-72pp, depending on the package, all inclusive of tax and tip. She showed us two rooms - the smaller one seemed really small - just a box with a dance floor and a small bar. It didn''t compare to the other 2 places we checked out. The other room was a lot nicer, but unless you could guarantee 150 people, you would have to book it for a Fri evening or Sat/Sun afternoon. Also, it sits between some kinda big-rig lot and a CVS, and across the street they''re putting up a complex of townhouses - it looks like construction has just gotten underway, and the smell of burning pressure treated wood was strong (outside). I don''t know how long the construction will take.
This Friday we''re checking out the regal ballroom.
I;ve been trying to contact P & P caterers, but we''ve been playing phone tag (it''s so hard to get stuff done working night shift!)

SO - the planning is coming along - slowly but surely.

I now know where to go if I ever need a lawyer! PS!

I work downtown too - at Jefferson Hosp. That I95 shutdown was a pain in the butt. I''m glad it''s open again, but I''m now a little freaked out about driving on it!

I wouldn''t mind looking more on the outskirts of the city, but my FI brought up a good point - our families/friends LOVE to party/drink. So since most of them live in the NE, it makes better sense to have the reception in the NE. People can cab it home for a reasonable price, if they must. Or there''s always SEPTA (j/k!). I''ve been to weddings in Blue Bell, Lansdale, etc. and they were very nice. But a 10 minute drive is a lot more appealing to me than an hour.

OK - so now I''m thinking about the ceremony. I was raised Catholic, he was raised Christian (like a non-denominational). Neither of us are real church-going people. Though raised Catholic, I don''t agree with some of the practices - i feel like I''m condemed to Hell already because we live together, have pre-marital you-know-what

. BUT the Catholic churches are so gorgeous! So I''m thinking of an outdoor ceremony, in Fairmount park or something.
What do you think of the Glendinning Rock garden? http://www.fairmountpark.org/Gardens.asp
But if I do that, I''ll have to have a rain back-up (April showers - 4/18/09) --- GRRR ------ SO much to think about!!!

YAY

PHILLY BRIDES!!!

I''ll keep ya posted!! Sorry again for being so late to respond!!

 

[Lynnie]

oops... I just realized the garden I like most is the Horticultural Center (the pic with the gazebo)

 

[Octavia]

Lynnie, I''m so glad you found my post! No worries about being busy, I think we all get caught up in real life

Congratulations on getting so much wedding stuff done!

I just have to say that Jefferson is awesome, I use them or their affiliates for all my medical stuff and the one time I went to a non-Jeff facility, I switched after one visit. So, just a little shout-out to your workplace.

It''s interesting to hear about all these places on the other side of the city. Sometimes I forget how big Philly is, since I live most of my life within a few small blocks right downtown and at school. It gets to be like a bubble. FI and I escaped this weekend though, and checked out one of our possible venues (Tyler Arboretum). It''s very pretty but kind of hard to find (four U-turns worth) and I just couldn''t envision how the facilities would be set up for a wedding. I think it''s not going to be high on the list, but I''m very glad that we had a chance to finally look at a venue in person rather than on websites. And we definitely had a good time there -- I''d absolutely go back but I''m just not sure about the wedding thing.

We''re going to have our ceremony and reception at the same place, since we''re technically of different faiths and neither of us practices. Unfortunately, it doesn''t seem to be all that easy to find a list of JPs in the Philly area, and PA is so ridiculous about who''s allowed to legally officiate. But my family has a history of getting lost around here, so I don''t want to tempt fate and choose two different locations. We''re not very big drinkers and it''ll be a Sunday brunch anyway, so I''m a little less concerned about the alcohol aspect than I would be if we were doing a Saturday night wedding.

Fairmount Park is so pretty, the gardens look awesome! But according to the permit application, you can only hold ceremonies in the Water Works Gazebo and the Azalea Garden -- unless I missed something? Maybe you can get special permission for the other locations? At least with the gazebo, if it rains you''ll still be dry...your guests might not be so lucky, though.

I''m so interested to see what you end up choosing for your wedding, definitely post periodically and if I find any awesome vendors in my search, I''ll make sure to let you know too!

 

[enbcfsobe]

Pretty sure you can do both ceremony and reception at Bartram''s garden. I think that''s still part of the park system. The pics I''ve seen from there are really nice, though I''ve never been. Either of you thought about Arcadia University? I saw somewhere that they host receptions in the castle! Lynnie, I understand about the drinking, which is one reason we''re having it in the city. It''s much closer to the northeast than blue bell. Also, have either of you looked into Temple''s Ambler campus? They probably still require you to use their catering, but the prices they quoted me when I looked into doing it on Main Campus were pretty cheap. Ambler has Temple''s horticulture school and they keep formal and informal gardens that are phenomenal.
I wouldn''t worry too much about officiants. Though there''s now some question about whether a minister certified online can perform the ceremony, I believe the law still allows the couple marry themselves as long as there are witnesses, though I think you have to specify this when you get your license. I think it''s a quaker thing. If you are looking for a judge to just do something low key, I would start with your local magesterial district judge (they used to be called district justices). There is actually a relatively recent fellow alum who is an MDJ in Cheltenham who I bet would be really cool to have. He is a nice guy. You can use any current or retired judge of the state or federal courts, so there are lots and lots of options, especially in Philly. I wouldn''t feel shy about calling a judge to ask, though it always helps if you have some connection to them or can at least get a sense of what they are like. You can also use the mayor of any city or borough, and it is my understanding that it need not be the mayor of the town you''re getting married in. If you want something more religious, I would look into the Ethical Society - they are non-denominational but they are an actual congregation. I think their leader is unitarian, but the congregation includes members of all sorts of religions.
In any event, this info should help clear up some of the rules http://secureprod.phila.gov/wills/displayform.aspx?pdf=marriage_policies.pdf

 

[Octavia]

Right after we got engaged, I looked up PA's marriage laws on Lexis...I had been following the "are they married or aren't they" stories and wanted to see the actual wording of the statute

I don't think we'd risk using someone who may not be able to make things legal, though, especially since FI isn't a US citizen. But I think I heard that some group (ACLU, maybe?) is suing the state over the possible invalidation of people's marriages so we'll see how that comes out in the end. I had been thinking that if I clerked for a judge this summer, it would be helpful in finding an officiant, but I'm doing other things so I'll have to figure out something else. We've got time, so I'm not too worried yet. Thanks for the info about magistrate judges and mayors, I wasn't quite sure about how it all worked!

 

[enbcfsobe]

That decision was awful law. I have also heard that the ACLU is challenging the ruling. PA courts can be so ridiculous, but I wouldn't hold your breath on them getting it sorted out anytime soon. I am fairly certain that you can still do self-officiating ceremonies -- that is actually explained in another section of the law and is rooted in quaker tradition. It was not the subject of the suit from what I recall. But I'm pretty sure that can't be a back-up plan -- it needs to be declared at the time you get your license. If you want an introduction to a judge, just ask your favorite professor or a friend who has interned or participated in the judicial clerkship clinical program. Profs are probably the best bet -- I'm sure many of them would be touched if you asked them for a referral for a judge to officiate your wedding. You could also ask the folks in career planning. I know that sounds odd, but they have connections with judges, especially judges who are alums, and could very likely hook you up. Judges are way less scary than you would imagine (well, most of them are...)! We both clerked but wanted a religious ceremony. My connections won't help you much as one of us clerked far away and the other's judge will be sitting by designation in another district next year. Sorry if i'm being vague -- i want to help but don't want to give too much identifying information on a public site.

 

[Octavia]

The vagueness is absolutely understandable, I usually try to be fairly vague as well. I'm working for a professor this summer who clerked for a couple judges pre-academia, and my legal writing prof is pretty awesome, so I'm sure either of them would be able to help if necessary. Since I'm seriously thinking of clerking for a year or two after school, it couldn't hurt to meet some judges in the near future anyway, just to start building relationships if not for officiant purposes. FI and I would prefer to have a strictly civil ceremony, so I'll surely be making use of all this information.

ETA: I think you're right about the self-officiating ceremonies, but I want someone to say "By the powers vested in me by the Commonwealth of PA, I now pronounce you husband and wife!" It just wouldn't seem right without that