May 1st Planned City Shutdowns...

[AGBF]

Date: 5/1/2006 3:25:45 AM
Author: sunkist
That''s no qualification to automatically get a green card! Now IF they can sing the national anthem in English, then they can GET IN LINE to get a green card.

This country is all heart. My great grandparents didn''t have to know, "The Star Spangled banner" in order to settle here legally. We have forgotten our roots. We are a nation of immigrants. We have always been the country where people can come, work hard, and succeed. Now no one can come here. We might as well tear down the Statue of Liberty which used to symbolize our open arms to poor people from every country who yearned for more freedom and prosperity through hard work.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Date: 5/1/2006 6:31:42 AM
Author: AGBF




Now no one can come here.

Just out of curiosity, how many green cards are issued each year?

1000?
10,000?
100,000?
1,000,000?
10,000,000?

And how hard are they to get, anyway?

 

[moon river]

Date: 5/1/2006 6:31:42 AM
Author: AGBF

Date: 5/1/2006 3:25:45 AM
Author: sunkist
That''s no qualification to automatically get a green card! Now IF they can sing the national anthem in English, then they can GET IN LINE to get a green card.

This country is all heart. My great grandparents didn''t have to know, ''The Star Spangled banner'' in order to settle here legally. We have forgotten our roots. We are a nation of immigrants. We have always been the country where people can come, work hard, and succeed. Now no one can come here. We might as well tear down the Statue of Liberty which used to symbolize our open arms to poor people from every country who yearned for more freedom and prosperity through hard work.

I couldn''t agree with you more AGBF!!!

 

[movie zombie]

with you, deb!

globalization has impacted countries in such a way that people can no longer remain on the farm as subsidized US agriculture is impossible to compete with. many have no option but to travel to the US to attempt to survive. this backlash against immigrants is very similar to the backlash against german and other immigrants in the 1880''s. not all immigrants of that era [or any era for that matter] entered legally.

it is indeed a hard issue but it would do us all good to remember than unless we are 100% native american indian, we''re all immigrants. simplistic?! yes, but also very true.

movie zombie

 

[cinnabar]

Date: 5/1/2006 12:42:03 PM
Author: Rank Amateur

Just out of curiosity, how many green cards are issued each year?

And how hard are they to get, anyway?

There are 226,000 "family based" green cards issued each year and 140,000 "employment" based ones. On top of those, there are 55,000 "green card lottery winners" and 90,000 refugee status green cards. And 10,000 to whatever "special immigrant status" means, which includes "no more than 5,000 non-clergy religious workers".

Family based means the families of US citizens who are citizens of other countries; within that category are sub-categories: the foreign spouse of a US citizen gets a green card faster than, say, siblings or parents. It is also limited by country of origin, for example, if you want to bring in your Philipino mother, you have a much longer wait than if your mother happens to be Icelandic (because far more Philipinos want to come here than Icelandics).

There are approx. half as many employment based green cards, which may surprise people. My husband waited seven years from his initial application until his card was issued last summer. My card was technically approved (all the background checks were done, the fingerprints taken, the fees paid and the mountain of paperwork completed satisfactorily) last October, but there is a waiting list so I can''t have the card yet. It''s impossible to work out how long the waitlist is, but an educated guess would be that I have to wait another six to twelve months.

In the meantime, I have to pay around $80 per year to renew my employment authorisation and another $80 for papers giving me permission to travel in and out of the US (ie the government charges me to visit my family abroad). These charges will be applied annually until my name comes to the top of the waitlist.

Every year or so I have to go to the Immigration Center and have my fingerprints taken again (do fingerprints change? Really? I accept they might want new photos in case I change my hair, but my fingerprints are pretty unchanging).

As someone in the system today (as opposed to how it was before 9/11), the process of legal immigration into the US feels only slightly friendlier than going to Guantanemo Bay.

After the cost, paperwork and attitude of the officials, that we''ve had to put up with to get this far by doing it legally, it really offends me to think that the people who come here illegally, and avoid all the aggravation, should expect a free green card.

I''ve met foreign nationals here who got their green cards decades ago, when it was a minor formality: you just went to the US embassy and asked for one. Those times are long gone. Green cards now take many years and involve more paperwork and processes than anything else I''ve ever done in my life.

 

[sunkist]

Date: 5/1/2006 1:34:02 PM
Author: movie zombie
with you, deb!


globalization has impacted countries in such a way that people can no longer remain on the farm as subsidized US agriculture is impossible to compete with. many have no option but to travel to the US to attempt to survive. this backlash against immigrants is very similar to the backlash against german and other immigrants in the 1880''s. not all immigrants of that era [or any era for that matter] entered legally.


it is indeed a hard issue but it would do us all good to remember than unless we are 100% native american indian, we''re all immigrants. simplistic?! yes, but also very true.


movie zombie

Zombie, even the native american indians are immigrants! How do you think they got here? They didn''t just grow here! 1,000s of years ago they came on a ship, just like everybody else has.

Plus when Europeans then came over to North America to eventually establish America, the indians had no formal government, no immigration laws. But today, they do exist. We have laws and people have to obey them or they''ll be punished. That''s how laws work. People get greed cards everyday. Yes it is a hassle, but it can be done, Cinnabar is proof!

No one can make me welcome law-breakers into my country with open arms. Where is the morality there?

 

[Dancing Fire]

deb,mr and mz

i don''t think anybody whom replied to this thread is against immigrants,just the illegal ones.

 

[monarch64]

Sunkist, where do you get the information that native Americans came over on a ship like all other immigrants?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/1/2006 1:39:02 PM
Author: cinnabar

Date: 5/1/2006 12:42:03 PM
Author: Rank Amateur

Just out of curiosity, how many green cards are issued each year?

And how hard are they to get, anyway?

After the cost, paperwork and attitude of the officials, that we''ve had to put up with to get this far by doing it legally, it really offends me to think that the people who come here illegally, and avoid all the aggravation, should expect a free green card.

me too.

it''s like if someone broke into my house,i''m sure ain''t gonna welcome them with open arms.

 

[sunkist]

Date: 5/1/2006 2:41:07 PM
Author: monarch64
Sunkist, where do you get the information that native Americans came over on a ship like all other immigrants?

From records that they kept.

 

[cinnabar]

The problem for the poor Mexicans is that there is no visa program applicable to them. My husband had to have a sponsoring company in the US, prepared to fill in all the paperwork and say "we offer him a job". It costs the company money to do that. No one is willing to stand up for a minimum-wage fruit picker in the same way; there just isn''t a visa scheme for agricultural and domestic workers.

Since they can''t come here legally, economics drives them to do so illegally.

I don''t want them deported en masse. I want the government to introduce a proper "guest worker" program. Talk about green cards and citizenship is premature, we just need to give these people visas so they can work legally and pay taxes like legal immigrants.

If an agricultural worker visa were implemented and then people still enter the country illegally, that''s the time to start deporting the workers and fining the companies who employ them.

 

[sunkist]

Date: 5/1/2006 3:00:28 PM
Author: cinnabar
The problem for the poor Mexicans is that there is no visa program applicable to them. My husband had to have a sponsoring company in the US, prepared to fill in all the paperwork and say ''we offer him a job''. It costs the company money to do that. No one is willing to stand up for a minimum-wage fruit picker in the same way; there just isn''t a visa scheme for agricultural and domestic workers.


Since they can''t come here legally, economics drives them to do so illegally.


I don''t want them deported en masse. I want the government to introduce a proper ''guest worker'' program. Talk about green cards and citizenship is premature, we just need to give these people visas so they can work legally and pay taxes like legal immigrants.


If an agricultural worker visa were implemented and then people still enter the country illegally, that''s the time to start deporting the workers and fining the companies who employ them.

So what about the poor Americans who want to work in Mexico? They have to get a company to sponsor them down there too. That''s how it works everywhere in the world.

You say it''s economics that''s driving these illegal immagrants here. The thing is, it''s the Mexican government that is driving them here. Encouraging them to leave the state of Mexico and trying to influence the US laws to make us take everyone in.

 

[rainbowtrout]

While I''m of a few diffeerent minds of the morality of the whole issue, the practical side of it becomes truly thorny--

I''ve heard economists on both sides predict doom if a) we keep letting IImm in, or b) we start deporting them at rapid rates. It does make sense to me that a major crackdown would impact our economy in unforseen ways, I''m just not entirely sure how.

So...what I am trying to say is that decisions like these can''t be totally moral ones. It may be nice to say "they''re illegal, they didn''t have to do all the tough work I did," but they don''t get all the benefits you do either--they pay an opportunity cost.

How much their labor (at below minimum wage) allows us to support ourselves in the lifestyle we are accustomed to is the truly interesting question to me.

 

[sunkist]

Date: 5/1/2006 3:47:36 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
While I''m of a few diffeerent minds of the morality of the whole issue, the practical side of it becomes truly thorny--


I''ve heard economists on both sides predict doom if a) we keep letting IImm in, or b) we start deporting them at rapid rates. It does make sense to me that a major crackdown would impact our economy in unforseen ways, I''m just not entirely sure how.


So...what I am trying to say is that decisions like these can''t be totally moral ones. It may be nice to say ''they''re illegal, they didn''t have to do all the tough work I did,'' but they don''t get all the benefits you do either--they pay an opportunity cost.


How much their labor (at below minimum wage) allows us to support ourselves in the lifestyle we are accustomed to is the truly interesting question to me.

Rainbow, that is an interesting question. I think these questions are equally interesting: How much are they draining our school systems and our hospital emergency rooms? How is our children''s quality of education being affected by children who''s parents are not paying for it? These are all questions to think about...

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 5/1/2006 2:12:21 PM
Author: sunkist Zombie, even the native american indians are immigrants! How do you think they got here? They didn''t just grow here! 1,000s of years ago they came on a ship, just like everybody else has. Plus when Europeans then came over to North America to eventually establish America, the indians had no formal government, no immigration laws. But today, they do exist. We have laws and people have to obey them or they''ll be punished. That''s how laws work. People get greed cards everyday. Yes it is a hassle, but it can be done, Cinnabar is proof! No one can make me welcome law-breakers into my country with open arms. Where is the morality there?

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

no, native americans did not come here by ship.....they walked here across the bering strait many thousands of years ago. and while society was formed into tribes rather than nation states, there were laws and organization within many tribal societies....just because they weren''t written down in english doesn''t mean they didn''t exist. their immigration practice welcomed us until we started to take over. western european imperialism always begins and ends with ''they had no formal government until we came along'' which really translates to we decided we could use their resources for our ownselves better. however, that is a different topic than why may 1 walk outs.

and yes, people get ''greed'' cards every day [i know this was a typo but i find it very appropriate]....instead of staying at home in their own country, educated aussies, canadians, indians, and more come to this country under special visas because they can earn more money than they can in their own homeland. these people take jobs from americans even if they are here legally and go through all the hoops. and don''t beat up on me on this one: my aussie husband is one of the many who has done this and managed to even get his employer to pay his legal costs to get his residency [greed] card. and yes, he knows i believe he took a job away from an american citizen. if it is fair to expect mexico to provide jobs to keep their people in their own country, why not expect australia, canada, india, and others to do the same? if we''re going to be anti-immigration, then be anti-immigration and don''t allow anyone in.

also, it is a misconception that illegal immigrants are only doing agricultural work: its tysons chicken, macdonalds, building contractors, etc. that are hiring illegal immigrants. if they didn''t hire illegal immigrants, they wouldn''t come. criminalize the business owners for making it possible in the first place. btw, the reason our produce in the supermarket is so cheap is because of those field workers....some of which are actually legal. if they didn''t work for the meager wages that they do, prices would be higher. its easy to dismiss the illegal immigrant but in actuality, they are the invisible under layer that keeps many of us afloat. they are nannies, waiters, carpenters, painters, etc. before we as a nation come to terms with immigration issues, we have to be really honest about how are economy works.

back to may 1: traditionally around the world this is labor day honoring those who labored and fought for the 8 hour day, fair wages, etc. the decision to walk out today is in recognition of all immigrants....legal and illegal....who find themselves discriminated against and mistreated. its also an expression of ''free speech'' which according to the Bill of Rights are available to all persons, not just citizens.

ultimately, illegal immigrants.....even from england and i have met such a person....would rather be here legally. there are no easy answers but really tough questions: yes, where is the morality? immigration is a labor issue as business already recognizes. we as individuals have not yet caught up with that concept.

i do not claim to have the answers, but i also do not believe that criminalizing illegal immigrants or the teachers, doctors, nurses, charities that assist them is going to make the problem any better.
movie zombie

 

[sunkist]

Date: 5/1/2006 4:51:27 PM
Author: movie zombie
Date: 5/1/2006 2:12:21 PM

no, native americans did not come here by ship.....they walked here across the bering strait many thousands of years ago. and while society was formed into tribes rather than nation states, there were laws and organization within many tribal societies....just because they weren''t written down in english doesn''t mean they didn''t exist. their immigration practice welcomed us until we started to take over. western european imperialism always begins and ends with ''they had no formal government until we came along'' which really translates to we decided we could use their resources for our ownselves better. however, that is a different topic than why may 1 walk outs.
movie zombie

Zombie, that is a theory that people walked across the Bering Strait. The Indians themselves do not even believe it. There is no evidence that anyone walked across an ice land bridge at precisely the right moment...

 

[cinnabar]

Date: 5/1/2006 4:51:27 PM
Author: movie zombie
Date: 5/1/2006 2:12:21 PM

and yes, people get ''greed'' cards every day [i know this was a typo but i find it very appropriate]....instead of staying at home in their own country, educated aussies, canadians, indians, and more come to this country under special visas because they can earn more money than they can in their own homeland. these people take jobs from americans even if they are here legally and go through all the hoops. and don''t beat up on me on this one: my aussie husband is one of the many who has done this and managed to even get his employer to pay his legal costs to get his residency [greed] card. and yes, he knows i believe he took a job away from an american citizen. if it is fair to expect mexico to provide jobs to keep their people in their own country, why not expect australia, canada, india, and others to do the same? if we''re going to be anti-immigration, then be anti-immigration and don''t allow anyone in.

I agree with you about taking jobs away from Americans. Even though I have a work authorisation permit, I feel it would be wrong for me to work here if there was any possibility that a citizen needed that job. I discussed this question with my husband before I immigrated and he understood my concerns. So, with his agreement, I don''t have a paid job, I do voluntary work.

We''re very fortunate to be able to afford for me to do that, I know.

If I did have a paid job here, though, we would buy more goods/services. That increased demand, economic theory suggests, should lead to more jobs for Americans (assuming we were to buy Americans goods and services, of course).

What should I do, that''s best for the USA?

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 5/1/2006 4:37:51 PM
Author: sunkist

Date: 5/1/2006 3:47:36 PM

Author: rainbowtrout

While I''m of a few diffeerent minds of the morality of the whole issue, the practical side of it becomes truly thorny--



I''ve heard economists on both sides predict doom if a) we keep letting IImm in, or b) we start deporting them at rapid rates. It does make sense to me that a major crackdown would impact our economy in unforseen ways, I''m just not entirely sure how.



So...what I am trying to say is that decisions like these can''t be totally moral ones. It may be nice to say ''they''re illegal, they didn''t have to do all the tough work I did,'' but they don''t get all the benefits you do either--they pay an opportunity cost.



How much their labor (at below minimum wage) allows us to support ourselves in the lifestyle we are accustomed to is the truly interesting question to me.

Rainbow, that is an interesting question. I think these questions are equally interesting: How much are they draining our school systems and our hospital emergency rooms? How is our children''s quality of education being affected by children who''s parents are not paying for it? These are all questions to think about...

Although you may be surprised, I actually am totally in agreement with you here

It''s hard not to question both sides of it if you live in LA for more than 5 minutes...

 

[rainbowtrout]

I'm not an expert on this, but I believe that while there is a tiny bit of evidence about the land bridge, there is NO hard evidence about the ships. People keep trying to make it work and failing. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but we haven't managed to find either proof or a working probable replica yet.

I'm not sure why the Native Americans believing they walked over the land bridge or not is pertinent historical evidence...you can try to explore cultural memory for theories but sometimes it doesn't pan out.

There were Native American groups that were "immigrants"--for example the Navajo had migrated up from south America, it shows in their language group. They were there for only about a hundred years before the Spanish arrived, if I am remembering correctly.

Most of the Native Americans I've talked to find the saintly "in touch with the land" Indian sterotype almost as repulsive as the bloodthirsty brave one.. To be fair, the vast majority of people I've talked to are Hopi, so they are from one group only.

 

[movie zombie]

ice bridge wasn't there....had melted. the archaeology i read says there is evidence. eta: there is very recent evidence being found on the coast of washington and points inbetween. however, there is documentation and findings that scandanavians made it here by boat way before chris columbus 'discovered' his islands and called them the west indies.



movie zombie

 

[rainbowtrout]

this is something I would keep up with if I had more time, so could you fill me in on what you read/where and such? Last I heard the land bridge theory was hotly contested but not dead per se.

 

[sunkist]

Date: 5/1/2006 5:27:33 PM
Author: rainbowtrout

Date: 5/1/2006 4:37:51 PM

Author: sunkist

Date: 5/1/2006 3:47:36 PM


Author: rainbowtrout


While I''m of a few diffeerent minds of the morality of the whole issue, the practical side of it becomes truly thorny--




I''ve heard economists on both sides predict doom if a) we keep letting IImm in, or b) we start deporting them at rapid rates. It does make sense to me that a major crackdown would impact our economy in unforseen ways, I''m just not entirely sure how.




So...what I am trying to say is that decisions like these can''t be totally moral ones. It may be nice to say ''they''re illegal, they didn''t have to do all the tough work I did,'' but they don''t get all the benefits you do either--they pay an opportunity cost.




How much their labor (at below minimum wage) allows us to support ourselves in the lifestyle we are accustomed to is the truly interesting question to me.

Rainbow, that is an interesting question. I think these questions are equally interesting: How much are they draining our school systems and our hospital emergency rooms? How is our children''s quality of education being affected by children who''s parents are not paying for it? These are all questions to think about...

Although you may be surprised, I actually am totally in agreement with you here

It''s hard not to question both sides of it if you live in LA for more than 5 minutes...

Rainbow, I''m not surprised!

However I am surprised if people do not understand this. It is such a real issue that is in our faces everyday here in LA and even Oregon, (I can''t speak for other parts of the nation).

 

[movie zombie]

if you haven''t read it already, check out: Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond for some interesting info re migrations.
also, i subscribe to Archaeology, a publication of the Archeological Instute of America to keep up with current findings.
Current issue May/June 2006 has a very interesting article re Clovis and pre-Clovis sites and seems to indicate more evidence of a series of ''invasions'' by peoples.

in some areas the ice age north american coastline was what is now 40 miles offshore. so it might even be entirely possible there was movement of peoples in combo with boats and walking from europe to north america and we can''t get to the evidence because its now under water.

the professionals can''t agree, so i''m sure we''re not going to settle the issue.

movie zombie

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/1/2006 4:37:51 PM
Author: sunkist


Rainbow, that is an interesting question. I think these questions are equally interesting: How much are they draining our school systems and our hospital emergency rooms? How is our children''s quality of education being affected by children who''s parents are not paying for it? These are all questions to think about...

sunkist
exactly !!! i rather see our money go to educating my children,not theirs.

 

[rainbowtrout]

I will say it is truly disturbing how the quality of my brother''s HS is sunk by the fact that so few of the students (many of whom we think have illgal parents) speak English, and how the resources for the school are outstripped by the number of people in it.

 

[tawn]

Date: 5/1/2006 4:51:27 PM
Author: movie zombie

Date: 5/1/2006 2:12:21 PM
Author: sunkist Zombie, even the native american indians are immigrants! How do you think they got here? They didn''t just grow here! 1,000s of years ago they came on a ship, just like everybody else has. Plus when Europeans then came over to North America to eventually establish America, the indians had no formal government, no immigration laws. But today, they do exist. We have laws and people have to obey them or they''ll be punished. That''s how laws work. People get greed cards everyday. Yes it is a hassle, but it can be done, Cinnabar is proof! No one can make me welcome law-breakers into my country with open arms. Where is the morality there?

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

no, native americans did not come here by ship.....they walked here across the bering strait many thousands of years ago. and while society was formed into tribes rather than nation states, there were laws and organization within many tribal societies....just because they weren''t written down in english doesn''t mean they didn''t exist. their immigration practice welcomed us until we started to take over. western european imperialism always begins and ends with ''they had no formal government until we came along'' which really translates to we decided we could use their resources for our ownselves better. however, that is a different topic than why may 1 walk outs.

and yes, people get ''greed'' cards every day [i know this was a typo but i find it very appropriate]....instead of staying at home in their own country, educated aussies, canadians, indians, and more come to this country under special visas because they can earn more money than they can in their own homeland. these people take jobs from americans even if they are here legally and go through all the hoops. and don''t beat up on me on this one: my aussie husband is one of the many who has done this and managed to even get his employer to pay his legal costs to get his residency [greed] card. and yes, he knows i believe he took a job away from an american citizen. if it is fair to expect mexico to provide jobs to keep their people in their own country, why not expect australia, canada, india, and others to do the same? if we''re going to be anti-immigration, then be anti-immigration and don''t allow anyone in.

also, it is a misconception that illegal immigrants are only doing agricultural work: its tysons chicken, macdonalds, building contractors, etc. that are hiring illegal immigrants. if they didn''t hire illegal immigrants, they wouldn''t come. criminalize the business owners for making it possible in the first place. btw, the reason our produce in the supermarket is so cheap is because of those field workers....some of which are actually legal. if they didn''t work for the meager wages that they do, prices would be higher. its easy to dismiss the illegal immigrant but in actuality, they are the invisible under layer that keeps many of us afloat. they are nannies, waiters, carpenters, painters, etc. before we as a nation come to terms with immigration issues, we have to be really honest about how are economy works.

back to may 1: traditionally around the world this is labor day honoring those who labored and fought for the 8 hour day, fair wages, etc. the decision to walk out today is in recognition of all immigrants....legal and illegal....who find themselves discriminated against and mistreated. its also an expression of ''free speech'' which according to the Bill of Rights are available to all persons, not just citizens.

ultimately, illegal immigrants.....even from england and i have met such a person....would rather be here legally. there are no easy answers but really tough questions: yes, where is the morality? immigration is a labor issue as business already recognizes. we as individuals have not yet caught up with that concept.

i do not claim to have the answers, but i also do not believe that criminalizing illegal immigrants or the teachers, doctors, nurses, charities that assist them is going to make the problem any better.

movie zombie

I''m from Canada, and my whole family still lives there. The wages there (at least on the West Coast where my family are) are significantly higher (almost double for school teachers and blue collar trade workers) than anywhere I know of in the USA, and you also don''t see the poverty that seems so prevalent here. It''s a much smaller country, so it''s like comparing apples to oranges.

I happen to live here because my American husband came to Canada, we fell in love and got married, not because of any dream to live in the US which is actually ranked lower in standards of living than where I come from. http://www.mherrera.org/world.htm

CONTINENTAL AMERICAS

1-Canada
2-United States
3-Chile +
4-Uruguay +
5-Argentina +
6-Costa Rica
7-Mexico
8-Panama
9-Venezuela
10-Brazil
11-Colombia guerrilla
12-Ecuador
13-Belize -
14-Suriname
15-El Salvador +
16-Paraguay
17-Peru
18-Guatemala
19-Honduras
20-Nicaragua
21-Guyana
22-Bolivia -
BTW I''m not currently working, although I have my "Greed" Card, but my husband and I have paid a significant amount to get my card, a lot of taxes, and we''ve been supporting the American Economy for the last 14yrs! I have worked here, and don''t feel guilty because I''m paying taxes, and contributing to the country. I''ve never used or abused any of the systems.

I personally don''t think we should make illegals felons, but I don''t think people can really claim rights if they''ve entered, and are working illegally in this country! I think the people who hire illegal immigrants should be fined as well. There are currently 1/2 a milliion illegal immigrants coming into this country every year, and they put a strain on the government, school, medical, and LAW agencies without paying for those services!

I support free speach, and the right to protest (hopefully peacefully)!! Maybe (hopefully) todays events will encourage the Govt to get off their buts and do something about the Immigration Laws. From what I''ve read today, they''ve been mulling and arguing over the current issues on the table for the last year. The American people overwhelmingly support (over 70%) some sort of guest worker program with the chance to eventually earn residency, citizenship etc...versus making illegal immigrants felons.


I''m all for Immigration. Legal Immigration! Whether or not we agree with the laws, they should apply to everyone.

Great discussion by the way!!

 

[tawn]

Date: 5/1/2006 2:27:04 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
deb,mr and mz

i don''t think anybody whom replied to this thread is against immigrants,just the illegal ones.

DF

 

[AGBF]

Date: 5/1/2006 2:27:04 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i don''t think anybody whom replied to this thread is against immigrants,just the illegal ones.

I disagree. A wrong law should be illegal. An unenforceable law is illegal. Anatole France summed up the situation thusly:

"The law, in its majesty, makes it illegal for the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges".

Worthy immigrants from certain countries cannot get into the United States because of the quota system. That means that immigrants from some countries can enter legally and those from others cannot. And the law (in its majesty) applies to everyone, making criminals out of people from some countries and not others.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 5/1/2006 1:39:02 PM
Author: cinnabar
It is also limited by country of origin, for example, if you want to bring in your Philipino mother, you have a much longer wait than if your mother happens to be Icelandic (because far more Philipinos want to come here than Icelandics).

BTW, this is what I was referring to in my posting above. The system that allows in Danes (or Icelanders), but not Mexicans (or Filipinos).

 

[sunkist]

Date: 5/1/2006 7:50:17 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 5/1/2006 1:39:02 PM

Author: cinnabar

It is also limited by country of origin, for example, if you want to bring in your Philipino mother, you have a much longer wait than if your mother happens to be Icelandic (because far more Philipinos want to come here than Icelandics).

BTW, this is what I was referring to in my posting above. The system that allows in Danes (or Icelanders), but not Mexicans (or Filipinos).

AGBF, this is nonsense! People are always saying they want equity, equal rights for everyone. For example, people demand that colleges accept certain quotas of people of different races, because if they don''t let equal numbers of all races in they are being "racist". Lots of kids that scored higher grades and higher scores on entrance tests don''t get into that college because that person''s race''s quota was filled! I agree, this is unfair! But no one complains about this anymore because their "quotas" are being filled.

Now we have a system, the immigration system, that has quotas on letting in immigrants from different countries and people are complaining about it!? These people need to please pick a side and stick with it.